(Topic ID: 109931)

The SprayMax 2K Auto Clear in a Can Club!


By Curbfeeler

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 982 posts
  • 167 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Pablito350
  • Topic is favorited by 278 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 282 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_20191110_202007489 (resized).jpg
IMG_20191110_202015590 (resized).jpg
C430672D-9D6B-454E-A972-DE98987050ED (resized).jpeg
6E998F3F-74FD-4E23-ACFA-23C3E0CD5729 (resized).jpeg
A26B344C-1772-4B95-986A-1B2C3AA73160 (resized).jpeg
IMG_20191013_193120390 (resized).jpg
IMG_20191013_192753339 (resized).jpg
IMG_20191013_135526545_HDR (resized).jpg
C360A9B6-D9FA-4A89-8ABB-892E161EB8E1 (resized).jpeg
D025B5D4-AFE5-4D37-9EF0-CB9EFD409ED1 (resized).jpeg
4AAC4F52-EAD2-4E62-9850-5BB931EFDB01 (resized).jpeg
0452D85A-3F06-4272-8276-0C0FADA8B2CF (resized).jpeg
F16B7B2A-D086-4C68-96B3-0CE794FADE5B (resized).jpeg
BDAE8F82-4466-4E23-B12D-F3B5F01DC404 (resized).jpeg
31c660f624f7fc717168aace21d4904b650a0f79 (resized).jpg
942EE499-86AB-4B3E-BD2E-7574BE1BA08F (resized).jpeg

There are 982 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 20.
#101 5 years ago

I recently cleared a PF using this stuff, and it did an amazing job! Now, I'm starting to notice fine scratches after only about 50+ plays. Plus, once I dropped a ball on the PF accidentally while loading them into the trough and it left a very slight dent in the finish.

How does this compare to an automotive clear? Is there any difference?

#102 5 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I recently cleared a PF using this stuff, and it did an amazing job! Now, I'm starting to notice fine scratches after only about 50+ plays. Plus, once I dropped a ball on the PF accidentally while loading them into the trough and it left a very slight dent in the finish

how long did you let it cure before playing it?

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I recently cleared a PF using this stuff, and it did an amazing job! Now, I'm starting to notice fine scratches after only about 50+ plays.

I had mine cure for 6 weeks and I also get it. But I think it is normal? When I take my care to a car wash I get the same scratches? You can polish them away again just like on your care.

Quoted from Hammerhead:

Plus, once I dropped a ball on the PF accidentally while loading them into the trough and it left a very slight dent in the finish.

Automotive paint is flexible. So if you drop something hard etc. you can press the wood under and therefor make a dent.

I don't know if this is only for Spraymaxx if, I would be surprised.

#104 5 years ago

As near as I can tell, the dents and scratches are the same as what you'd get in a spraybooth job. I think Vid said somewhere that auto clear is hard, but it's not as hard as a steel ball.

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

how long did you let it cure before playing it?

It was probably months before I got the game back together and playable.

#106 5 years ago

@bpull-

I would be interested in finding out how the playfield looks and if the clear starts debonding from the overlay as time goes on. If you keep the machine that long, that is.

Purely from an academic standpoint, you understand.

Greg

#107 5 years ago

Hi Greg,

It's a friends machine but I'll be in touch with him often. I'm sure he'll let me know how its holding up in which I'll be sure to report back.

Brian

#108 5 years ago

If you prep the PF properly, there should be no issues with debonding.

#109 5 years ago
Quoted from bpull:

thanks guys! I was a nervous wreck using this stuff for the first time on an overlay but I'm really happy with the results. I know my friend will be pleased once he sees how it turned out.
Brian

ya looks awesome bpull. im sure you saw my pics the first xenon overlay I did with 2k. I just about died when I walked back into the garage and saw that. yours looks very nice

#110 5 years ago
Quoted from boydsc331:

ya looks awesome bpull. im sure you saw my pics the first xenon overlay I did with 2k. I just about died when I walked back into the garage and saw that. yours looks very nice

Thanks boydsc331. Those pictures of your xenon is what keep going through my mind. Thanks to you for showing that and giving us insight is what allowed me to pull off a successful coating. If I could give you a hundred thumbs up, I would.

Brian

1 week later
#111 5 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

In my pinbot thread I do have quite a bit of info about spraybooths. I always mean to start a thread but if you do I will provide what info I have there.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/curbfeelers-pinbot-restored#post-1550792 and lower...

Started a thread...would like to see info there.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spray-booth-discussion#post-2096503

If anyone has any please share!

1 month later
#113 4 years ago

Sorry if I missed the answer to this question but how does spraymax react to touch-ups done with acrylic paints? I am used to using water based varathane which works well and doesn't cause any bleeding or runs, how does the spraymax work with touch-ups?

#114 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Sorry if I missed the answer to this question but how does spraymax react to touch-ups done with acrylic paints? I am used to using water based varathane which well and doesn't cause any bleeding or runs, how does the spraymax work with touch-ups?

I'd like to know this also.

#115 4 years ago

All my touch ups are with acrylic paint. I always do a light mist coat to start with and never had any problems.

Andy

#116 4 years ago

I do the same as Andy, a lighter coat and two heavier coats. Never had any bleeding of the new paint.

1 month later
#117 4 years ago

Picked up two cans, going to give my old High Hand a base coat before starting touchup.

#118 4 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Picked up two cans, going to give my old High Hand a base coat before starting touchup.

I would think you would want to touch up then coat. Any reason why you would want a base coat then touchup ?

#119 4 years ago

Many ways to do touch up, but the pros usually do it this way. I will be using this on an old EM playfield that is missing a lot of the artwork & the paint is very delicate.
You want to lock down the surface with clear first, then use frisket material to mask off areas that need re-painting. If you don't put down a layer of clear the masking (frisket) may pull up the original artwork. Also, if using water slide decals, they work best if put down on a cleared surface & then clear again over them for protection.
See Vid's guide on this subject, it's pretty good.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

Frisket material
amazon.com link »

#120 4 years ago

How many coats can you get out of a can? And it seems like 5 coats is the way to go. So how many cans is that?

#121 4 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

How many coats can you get out of a can? And it seems like 5 coats is the way to go. So how many cans is that?

It depends on how thick the coats are.
I would say you need 2-3 cans for a nice job on a playfield.

#122 4 years ago

Ok so like....$75 for 3 cans. Cool.

#123 4 years ago

Great thread, thanks for the info guys!

#124 4 years ago

Anybody have any pics of waterslides they have done and then cleared over them ? I was wondering how visible they are after clearing ? Do they blend in pretty good or do they stick out like a sore thumb ? I guess it depends how good you are at doing them too. Has anybody ever done an 8 /12 x 11 waterslide ? Like full page ? Or is that too much to try and line up ?

#125 4 years ago
Quoted from boydsc331:

Anybody have any pics of waterslides they have done and then cleared over them ? I was wondering how visible they are after clearing ? Do they blend in pretty good or do they stick out like a sore thumb ? I guess it depends how good you are at doing them too. Has anybody ever done an 8 /12 x 11 waterslide ? Like full page ? Or is that too much to try and line up ?

See Vids guide. Covers this
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

#126 4 years ago
Quoted from boydsc331:

Anybody have any pics of waterslides they have done and then cleared over them ? I was wondering how visible they are after clearing ? Do they blend in pretty good or do they stick out like a sore thumb ? I guess it depends how good you are at doing them too. Has anybody ever done an 8 /12 x 11 waterslide ? Like full page ? Or is that too much to try and line up ?

Bond is a decal. If you do it right you can not see that it is a decal:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sega-goldeneye-restoration#post-2308818

dasvis gives a great advice:

#127 4 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

Ok so like....$75 for 3 cans. Cool.

My local Industrial Finishes shop sells cans for around $15. Haven't bought any Spraymax in over a year, but I'm certain you can find it way cheaper than wherever you're getting pricing from.

Dasvis, I know they have a location down in Salem. You check them out if you haven't already. Great resource for automotive paint supplies and tools.

#129 4 years ago
Quoted from erichill:

My local Industrial Finishes shop sells cans for around $15. Haven't bought any Spraymax in over a year, but I'm certain you can find it way cheaper than wherever you're getting pricing from.
Dasvis, I know they have a location down in Salem. You check them out if you haven't already. Great resource for automotive paint supplies and tools.

That's where I bought mine from!
Be sure to use a respirator when painting with the 2-part paints! This stuff is nasty & can cause serious health issues.

amazon.com link »

#130 4 years ago

I have been buying mine at the local Napa for $19. Have occasionally been able to use a coupon as well. Just check the dates on the cans and get the newest you can. Haven't noticed a difference between the finish on older vs. newer, but I'm sure fresher must be better, right?

#131 4 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

That's where I bought mine from!
Be sure to use a respirator when painting with the 2-part paints! This stuff is nasty & can cause serious health issues.
amazon.com link »

Are you sure those cheap cartridge respirators are rated for isocyanates? I would doubt it.

Seems like a supplied-air respirator is the way the go.

amazon.com link »

#132 4 years ago

I believe that 3M respirator is the exact same one that was recommended to me by the folks at Industrial Finishes.

#133 4 years ago
Quoted from erichill:

I believe that 3M respirator is the exact same one that was recommended to me by the folks at Industrial Finishes.

Is Industrial Finishes going to accept liability for your health if they're wrong? I personally would want to know from 3M that their respirator is rated for isocyanates. It's not something to mess around with.

I haven't done a lot of research to verify, but on this auto-body forum (I'm not a member), it is suggested that NO cartridge respirators are rated for isocyanates:
http://autobodystore.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8682.html?s=92d1fb3374c0c3074edc8158e0445300

This other forum (not a member and haven't verified the info) states that no 3M respirators are rated for isocyanates:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/respirators-isocyanates-33950.html

#134 4 years ago

I believe there are 3M cartridges that are rated for isocyanates, but they require changing/replacing every hour of spraying, *and* they require a properly vented work space.

Source: http://www.gemplers.com/tech/s3m6000.htm

I would definitely be using a full-face respirator at the very least, rather than a half-mask style.

That being said, a supplied-air system sounds way safer.

I get very nervous reading these threads, about people using proper safety procedures - especially when Spraymax seems to be a popular choice due to being much cheaper than the investment required by an HVLP setup.

Don't cut corners, people - if you don't have the money or space to do it safely, don't spray clear yourself!

#135 4 years ago

Oof, and I just saw that the linked respirator on Amazon does not have replaceable cartridges. Please, don't use that for spraying automotive clear!

#136 4 years ago
Quoted from gcp:

Don't cut corners, people - if you don't have the money or space to do it safely, don't spray clear yourself! There's no shame in hiring a professioal!

I think this is more a case where people cannot otherwise afford it at all. They play fast and loose with their health because professionals cost money. I asked in Kruzman's for sale thread what his rbion playfield cleared would run. He wants 105 more for the playfield than Bay Area and another 475 to clear it. The man has overhead and he has incredible talent. Not going to argue with his price.

How many of us have 500+ (factor in shipping both ways) to get a professionally cleared playfield?

#137 4 years ago
Quoted from boydsc331:

my second overlay came out very nice . 20140519_185831.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

how did you clear over this overlay? i am looking to do that very soon.

#138 4 years ago
Quoted from dung:

How many of us have 500+ (factor in shipping both ways) to get a professionally cleared playfield?

Edited for clarity. Whether or not one can afford to have it done professionally is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

#139 4 years ago

Also does this separate from the pf at ball drop areas? Have seen this happen on a field that was cleared with automotive clear...

#140 4 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

how did you clear over this overlay? i am looking to do that very soon.

I cleared it with spraymax . on an overlay make sure the first couple of coats is very light. then a heavy 3rd and 4th. if you read the whole post I think there a pics of my first overlay that I did a heavy first coat and it wrinkled up bad. it will look dull the first light coats but the heavy coat will make it clear again.

#141 4 years ago

Opting to drain the thread instead. Have fun guys.

#142 4 years ago
Quoted from boydsc331:

I cleared it with spraymax . on an overlay make sure the first couple of coats is very light. then a heavy 3rd and 4th. if you read the whole post I think there a pics of my first overlay that I did a heavy first coat and it wrinkled up bad. it will look dull the first light coats but the heavy coat will make it clear again.

How does the overlay look today? still just as good?

#143 4 years ago
Quoted from winteriscoming:

Is Industrial Finishes going to accept liability for your health if they're wrong? I personally would want to know from 3M that their respirator is rated for isocyanates. It's not something to mess around with.
I haven't done a lot of research to verify, but on this auto-body forum (I'm not a member), it is suggested that NO cartridge respirators are rated for isocyanates:
http://autobodystore.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8682.html?s=92d1fb3374c0c3074edc8158e0445300
This other forum (not a member and haven't verified the info) states that no 3M respirators are rated for isocyanates:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/respirators-isocyanates-33950.html

Obviously, I'd be foolish to think they'd accept liability if I hurt myself.

I too did a lot of research before diving into this and completely agree that the safest route would be to use a supplied air system instead of purification. But based on my research, talking to painters in town, and talking to the people at the shop, I was told that using an organic vapor filter in combination with a particulate filter provides adequate purification of isocyanates. The most important thing however is to observe the change out schedule for the filter cartridges and to keep them in an air tight container when not in use. Once they near end of life, they're no longer protecting you.

Digging through some old emails, here are some of the tech docs I found:

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/603272O/respirator-selection-for-diisocyanates.pdf
http://www.grainger.com/content/qt-233-isocyanate
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/777847O/isocyanates-3m-techupdate.pdf

#144 4 years ago
Quoted from erichill:

Obviously, I'd be foolish to think they'd accept liability if I hurt myself.
I too did a lot of research before diving into this and completely agree that the safest route would be to use a supplied air system instead of purification. But based on my research, talking to painters in town, and talking to the people at the shop, I was told that using an organic vapor filter in combination with a particulate filter provides adequate purification of isocyanates. The most important thing however is to observe the change out schedule for the filter cartridges and to keep them in an air tight container when not in use. Once they near end of life, they're no longer protecting you.
Digging through some old emails, here are some of the tech docs I found:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/603272O/respirator-selection-for-diisocyanates.pdf
http://www.grainger.com/content/qt-233-isocyanate
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/777847O/isocyanates-3m-techupdate.pdf

Those references were very helpful and line up with my own research into the topic. The key point in the last reference is the protection used should reduce exposure from being above a safe level to something below the safe level. The OSHA practice of only recommending the equipment that reduces it the most is not entirely valid. In this case a full face pressure fed respirator is obviously better than a cartridge mask. It does not mean that the cartridge mask is inadequate, its just not as good.

#145 4 years ago

From 3M's site.... http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/464839O/information-on-isocyanates.pdf

Spraying Isocyanate Paints
Spray painters need to understand the health risks involved in spraying polyurethane paints - these are the two pack mixes of
polyurethane paints and possibly also in the one-pack moisture-cured mixes. These products are widely used in the automotive
and other industries because of their excellent gloss, hardness, adhesion and chemical resistance.
The major hazard with spraying polyurethane paints is breathing the mist or aerosol droplets of the paint spray and absorbing
the isocyanate and other components into your lungs.
The odour threshold for isocyanates, ie the level at which an individual can smell an isocyanate, is typically higher than the allowed
exposure limits. In other words, if a painter smells the sweet, fruity, pungent odour of an isocyanate, they are probably
already overexposed. That is why the recommended respiratory protection for employees spraying isocyanates is a supplied air
respirator and not an air purifying respirator (i.e filter cartridge style). The issue with use of air purifying respirators is that they
will reach a point at which the filter becomes saturated and will no longer capture the isocyanate or other solvents. When that
filter breakthrough happens, an overexposure can occur, potentially causing an irreversible sensitization. Use of a supplied air
system removes this filter change factor - it does not rely on the painter changing his gas/vapour filters at appropriate intervals.
Note: if isocyanate-containing paint is applied by brush, roller or dipping, in a well ventilated area, there is generally no more
hazard than with ordinary paints. These application methods usually do not produce the higher concentrations of isocyanate
vapour associated with spraying.
After curing, polyurethane paints contain no free isocyanates and are not hazardous under normal use. However, welding or
burning of polyurethane coated surfaces can release a range of contaminants.

------------------
So, for a small job like a playfield done in a well ventilated area, the cartridge type respirator looks like it should be fine. --- when used with goggles, gloves, & a bunny suit.

#146 4 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

From 3M's site.... http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/464839O/information-on-isocyanates.pdf
Spraying Isocyanate Paints
Spray painters need to understand the health risks involved in spraying polyurethane paints - these are the two pack mixes of
polyurethane paints and possibly also in the one-pack moisture-cured mixes. These products are widely used in the automotive
and other industries because of their excellent gloss, hardness, adhesion and chemical resistance.
The major hazard with spraying polyurethane paints is breathing the mist or aerosol droplets of the paint spray and absorbing
the isocyanate and other components into your lungs.
The odour threshold for isocyanates, ie the level at which an individual can smell an isocyanate, is typically higher than the allowed
exposure limits. In other words, if a painter smells the sweet, fruity, pungent odour of an isocyanate, they are probably
already overexposed. That is why the recommended respiratory protection for employees spraying isocyanates is a supplied air
respirator and not an air purifying respirator (i.e filter cartridge style). The issue with use of air purifying respirators is that they
will reach a point at which the filter becomes saturated and will no longer capture the isocyanate or other solvents. When that
filter breakthrough happens, an overexposure can occur, potentially causing an irreversible sensitization. Use of a supplied air
system removes this filter change factor - it does not rely on the painter changing his gas/vapour filters at appropriate intervals.
Note: if isocyanate-containing paint is applied by brush, roller or dipping, in a well ventilated area, there is generally no more
hazard than with ordinary paints. These application methods usually do not produce the higher concentrations of isocyanate
vapour associated with spraying.
After curing, polyurethane paints contain no free isocyanates and are not hazardous under normal use. However, welding or
burning of polyurethane coated surfaces can release a range of contaminants.
------------------
So, for a small job like a playfield done in a well ventilated area, the cartridge type respirator looks like it should be fine. --- when used with goggles, gloves, & a bunny suit.

Very nice find!
Makes perfect sense, if you work in a position where you spray all day long, better solutions are there. But for a playfield we are fine Thank you! (The last messages where starting to make me nervous as I have sprayed two playfield)

#147 4 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Very nice find!
Makes perfect sense, if you work in a position where you spray all day long, better solutions are there. But for a playfield we are fine Thank you! (The last messages where starting to make me nervous as I have sprayed two playfield)

I thought it was too. I feel a lot better about using this stuff now.

#148 4 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

How does the overlay look today? still just as good?

looks great, not a scratch or dent or even a dull spot on it. It doesn't get a lot of play, Id say it has probably 75 to 100 plays on it. But I don't forsee any problems in the future. I did use brand new balls when I installed the playfield which is important.

#149 4 years ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

Also does this separate from the pf at ball drop areas? Have seen this happen on a field that was cleared with automotive clear...

I haven't had any separation at ball drops, or slingshots, or anywhere on the playfield.

#150 4 years ago

Although I'm the OP, I don't claim to be an expert at all. After working with this stuff for about 8-9 months, I'm leaning towards not using it or any isocyanate product any more. Kind of losing my nerve, if you will. If you compare the risk you're possibly exposing yourself to versus what it would cost to find a guy who sprays cars, I think we're talking about a couple hundred dollars per machine. Just not worth it.

What put me over the edge was I got two beehives installed in my back yard and I got a new dog since the last time I sprayed. My machines are 1500 - 3K machines that I keep long term and never sell. A few hundred bucks to have a "guy" spray them is starting to be more appealing than taking risks with chemicals I only know about from the interwebs.

My 2 cents...
Dan

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 25.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
$ 159.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 90.00
Gameroom - Decorations
The Pinball Vault
€ 3.70
$ 9.00
Cabinet Parts
Third Coast Pinball
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Peachtree City, GA
$ 50.00
$ 189.99
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 11.00
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 299.00
Displays
Boston Pinball Company
€ 95.00
Lighting - Led
FlipperLED
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 24.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 27.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 44.99
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
$ 999.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
$ 15.75
Cabinet Parts
Tilted Pinball
3,900
Machine - For Sale
Leesburg, VA
8,495
Machine - For Sale
Milford, CT
€ 3.95
Flipper Parts
Multigame
Hey modders!
Your shop name here
There are 982 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 20.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside