I recently cleared a PF using this stuff, and it did an amazing job! Now, I'm starting to notice fine scratches after only about 50+ plays. Plus, once I dropped a ball on the PF accidentally while loading them into the trough and it left a very slight dent in the finish.

How does this compare to an automotive clear? Is there any difference?

how long did you let it cure before playing it?

I had mine cure for 6 weeks and I also get it. But I think it is normal? When I take my care to a car wash I get the same scratches? You can polish them away again just like on your care.

Automotive paint is flexible. So if you drop something hard etc. you can press the wood under and therefor make a dent.

I don't know if this is only for Spraymaxx if, I would be surprised.

It was probably months before I got the game back together and playable.

@bpull-

I would be interested in finding out how the playfield looks and if the clear starts debonding from the overlay as time goes on. If you keep the machine that long, that is.

Purely from an academic standpoint, you understand.

Greg

Hi Greg,

It's a friends machine but I'll be in touch with him often. I'm sure he'll let me know how its holding up in which I'll be sure to report back.

Brian

If you prep the PF properly, there should be no issues with debonding.

ya looks awesome bpull. im sure you saw my pics the first xenon overlay I did with 2k. I just about died when I walked back into the garage and saw that. yours looks very nice

Thanks boydsc331. Those pictures of your xenon is what keep going through my mind. Thanks to you for showing that and giving us insight is what allowed me to pull off a successful coating. If I could give you a hundred thumbs up, I would.

Brian

Started a thread...would like to see info there.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spray-booth-discussion#post-2096503

If anyone has any please share!

My second SpayMax 2K project:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sega-goldeneye-restoration

Sorry if I missed the answer to this question but how does spraymax react to touch-ups done with acrylic paints? I am used to using water based varathane which works well and doesn't cause any bleeding or runs, how does the spraymax work with touch-ups?

I'd like to know this also.

All my touch ups are with acrylic paint. I always do a light mist coat to start with and never had any problems.

Andy

I do the same as Andy, a lighter coat and two heavier coats. Never had any bleeding of the new paint.

Picked up two cans, going to give my old High Hand a base coat before starting touchup.

I would think you would want to touch up then coat. Any reason why you would want a base coat then touchup ?

Many ways to do touch up, but the pros usually do it this way. I will be using this on an old EM playfield that is missing a lot of the artwork & the paint is very delicate.
You want to lock down the surface with clear first, then use frisket material to mask off areas that need re-painting. If you don't put down a layer of clear the masking (frisket) may pull up the original artwork. Also, if using water slide decals, they work best if put down on a cleared surface & then clear again over them for protection.
See Vid's guide on this subject, it's pretty good.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

Frisket material
http://www.amazon.com/Grafix-Purpose-Frisket-9-Inch-12-Inch/dp/B004QVBQBG

How many coats can you get out of a can? And it seems like 5 coats is the way to go. So how many cans is that?

It depends on how thick the coats are.
I would say you need 2-3 cans for a nice job on a playfield.

Ok so like....$75 for 3 cans. Cool.

Great thread, thanks for the info guys!

Anybody have any pics of waterslides they have done and then cleared over them ? I was wondering how visible they are after clearing ? Do they blend in pretty good or do they stick out like a sore thumb ? I guess it depends how good you are at doing them too. Has anybody ever done an 8 /12 x 11 waterslide ? Like full page ? Or is that too much to try and line up ?

See Vids guide. Covers this
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

Bond is a decal. If you do it right you can not see that it is a decal:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sega-goldeneye-restoration#post-2308818

dasvis gives a great advice:

My local Industrial Finishes shop sells cans for around $15. Haven't bought any Spraymax in over a year, but I'm certain you can find it way cheaper than wherever you're getting pricing from.

Dasvis, I know they have a location down in Salem. You check them out if you haven't already. Great resource for automotive paint supplies and tools.

http://www.repaintsupply.com/spraymax-2-part-2k-urethane-aerosol-clear-coat-p3685.html

cheapest i've found it so far . plus shipping

That's where I bought mine from!
Be sure to use a respirator when painting with the 2-part paints! This stuff is nasty & can cause serious health issues.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-07193-Paint-Spray-Resp/dp/B00079FOK0/ref=sr_1_9

Are you sure those cheap cartridge respirators are rated for isocyanates? I would doubt it.

Seems like a supplied-air respirator is the way the go.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss

I believe that 3M respirator is the exact same one that was recommended to me by the folks at Industrial Finishes.

Is Industrial Finishes going to accept liability for your health if they're wrong? I personally would want to know from 3M that their respirator is rated for isocyanates. It's not something to mess around with.

I haven't done a lot of research to verify, but on this auto-body forum (I'm not a member), it is suggested that NO cartridge respirators are rated for isocyanates:
http://autobodystore.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8682.html?s=92d1fb3374c0c3074edc8158e0445300

This other forum (not a member and haven't verified the info) states that no 3M respirators are rated for isocyanates:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/respirators-isocyanates-33950.html

I believe there are 3M cartridges that are rated for isocyanates, but they require changing/replacing every hour of spraying, *and* they require a properly vented work space.

Source: http://www.gemplers.com/tech/s3m6000.htm

I would definitely be using a full-face respirator at the very least, rather than a half-mask style.

That being said, a supplied-air system sounds way safer.

I get very nervous reading these threads, about people using proper safety procedures - especially when Spraymax seems to be a popular choice due to being much cheaper than the investment required by an HVLP setup.

Don't cut corners, people - if you don't have the money or space to do it safely, don't spray clear yourself!

Oof, and I just saw that the linked respirator on Amazon does not have replaceable cartridges. Please, don't use that for spraying automotive clear!

I think this is more a case where people cannot otherwise afford it at all. They play fast and loose with their health because professionals cost money. I asked in Kruzman's for sale thread what his rbion playfield cleared would run. He wants 105 more for the playfield than Bay Area and another 475 to clear it. The man has overhead and he has incredible talent. Not going to argue with his price.

How many of us have 500+ (factor in shipping both ways) to get a professionally cleared playfield?

how did you clear over this overlay? i am looking to do that very soon.

Edited for clarity. Whether or not one can afford to have it done professionally is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

Also does this separate from the pf at ball drop areas? Have seen this happen on a field that was cleared with automotive clear...

I cleared it with spraymax . on an overlay make sure the first couple of coats is very light. then a heavy 3rd and 4th. if you read the whole post I think there a pics of my first overlay that I did a heavy first coat and it wrinkled up bad. it will look dull the first light coats but the heavy coat will make it clear again.

Opting to drain the thread instead. Have fun guys.

How does the overlay look today? still just as good?

Obviously, I'd be foolish to think they'd accept liability if I hurt myself.

I too did a lot of research before diving into this and completely agree that the safest route would be to use a supplied air system instead of purification. But based on my research, talking to painters in town, and talking to the people at the shop, I was told that using an organic vapor filter in combination with a particulate filter provides adequate purification of isocyanates. The most important thing however is to observe the change out schedule for the filter cartridges and to keep them in an air tight container when not in use. Once they near end of life, they're no longer protecting you.

Digging through some old emails, here are some of the tech docs I found:

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/603272O/respirator-selection-for-diisocyanates.pdf
http://www.grainger.com/content/qt-233-isocyanate
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/777847O/isocyanates-3m-techupdate.pdf

Those references were very helpful and line up with my own research into the topic. The key point in the last reference is the protection used should reduce exposure from being above a safe level to something below the safe level. The OSHA practice of only recommending the equipment that reduces it the most is not entirely valid. In this case a full face pressure fed respirator is obviously better than a cartridge mask. It does not mean that the cartridge mask is inadequate, its just not as good.

From 3M's site.... http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/464839O/information-on-isocyanates.pdf

Spraying Isocyanate Paints
Spray painters need to understand the health risks involved in spraying polyurethane paints - these are the two pack mixes of
polyurethane paints and possibly also in the one-pack moisture-cured mixes. These products are widely used in the automotive
and other industries because of their excellent gloss, hardness, adhesion and chemical resistance.
The major hazard with spraying polyurethane paints is breathing the mist or aerosol droplets of the paint spray and absorbing
the isocyanate and other components into your lungs.
The odour threshold for isocyanates, ie the level at which an individual can smell an isocyanate, is typically higher than the allowed
exposure limits. In other words, if a painter smells the sweet, fruity, pungent odour of an isocyanate, they are probably
already overexposed. That is why the recommended respiratory protection for employees spraying isocyanates is a supplied air
respirator and not an air purifying respirator (i.e filter cartridge style). The issue with use of air purifying respirators is that they
will reach a point at which the filter becomes saturated and will no longer capture the isocyanate or other solvents. When that
filter breakthrough happens, an overexposure can occur, potentially causing an irreversible sensitization. Use of a supplied air
system removes this filter change factor - it does not rely on the painter changing his gas/vapour filters at appropriate intervals.
Note: if isocyanate-containing paint is applied by brush, roller or dipping, in a well ventilated area, there is generally no more
hazard than with ordinary paints. These application methods usually do not produce the higher concentrations of isocyanate
vapour associated with spraying.
After curing, polyurethane paints contain no free isocyanates and are not hazardous under normal use. However, welding or
burning of polyurethane coated surfaces can release a range of contaminants.

------------------
So, for a small job like a playfield done in a well ventilated area, the cartridge type respirator looks like it should be fine. --- when used with goggles, gloves, & a bunny suit.

Very nice find!
Makes perfect sense, if you work in a position where you spray all day long, better solutions are there. But for a playfield we are fine Thank you! (The last messages where starting to make me nervous as I have sprayed two playfield)

I thought it was too. I feel a lot better about using this stuff now.

looks great, not a scratch or dent or even a dull spot on it. It doesn't get a lot of play, Id say it has probably 75 to 100 plays on it. But I don't forsee any problems in the future. I did use brand new balls when I installed the playfield which is important.

I haven't had any separation at ball drops, or slingshots, or anywhere on the playfield.