Its all about the die back. And whatever grade of finish you want.

10 weeks from now you will see more die back. Always.

Chris usually applies more clear to flatten it out again after 8 to 10 weeks.

This is how you get a mirror finish.

Oddly in the long run it doesnt matter too much due to ball dimples, scrapes and scratches.

Yeah, that is the thing isn't it. When to stop.... A lot of the touch up I have been doing is in areas that are going to be fully hidden. I was just looking at my Taxi which I did before which wasn't nearly so flat and shiny and it looks perfect in play. It would look great on the game now but I keep seeing the tiny flaws.

how long ago was that? I recently went to a different Sherwin Williams in Kanata and they did not have it and they told me they cannot get it. Could be just that store/management?

Wow this thread is great.

I’m curious if anyone here has used a turbine sprayer to clear a playfield? I have a Fuji Mini Mite 3, but never tried it with 2-part. I think I need to order a smaller needle for it, but I might give it a shot and compare it to SprayMax.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D4NPMKI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_9Y7CRWT9G3F0Q4YEWPVQ

Probably 2 years now. The Clyde Ave. store is more of a commercial outlet.

I will give them a call, if that fails, can one of you sell me a 1/4 gallon ? I can bring my own bottle and collect it. PM if you can. thanks

It might lay down too much paint, too quickly in order to get any control out of it.

I did Spraymax a Springbreak (I miss that game )

Before and after images:

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Does that make Spring Break the most Spray 2K'd pin in the club? Out of curiosity, what game did you replace it with?

I just finished sanding mine down. Now it's ready to sit for a while to harden up.

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Before:IMG_2559 (resized).JPG
After:IMG_2665 (resized).JPG

Looks great!

Thanks! Your tips were helpful.

I did not replace it - I had "too many games" (I dont have enough space)

I liked the simple gameplay of the game and the happy feel/music the game had.
And the translite is epic! (As you can see on my profile image)

I actually just ordered a NOS translight from Mayfair to replace the faded one I have. It's not in too bad of shape, but there is a small hole in it by the fat guys, and a crack in the middle.

I'm with you though. I like having some simple games to mix it up. I have a TMNT that gets frustrating at times, and it's nice to jump on my old stern Trident or Meteor for a change of pace between games.

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I have been following HEP here on pinside because I love his work and because I like to pick up the little details as he goes, it helps me learn and improve my pinball fixing skills.

All that to say, he recently said that adhesion promoter should always be used when clearing a PF. I am not questioning his word as his work speaks for itself and he is a professional painter by trade.

All that to say and because this is a canned product, how can the ‘adhesion’ be promoted when using this product?

Thanks

Adhesion promoter (3m and a variety of manufactures make a specific product depending on the plastic being painted) is used to insure good adhesion of automotive paint and clearcoat to plastics.

If a game has never been cleared, the oily plastic inserts can reject the clear or the clear will fail to bond properly to them.

This is main reason for ghosting and halos.

When balls strike the plastic inserts, the surfaces flex slightly and release the clear due to imperfect bonding.

Adhesion promoter is used in the automotive industry on all of the flexible bumpers and any rubber or plastic then needs to be painted with automotive paint.

If a playfield has already been cleared, and you are refreshing the clearcoat, adhesion promoter will have little effect as the plastics are already covered in clearcoat.

Rapid Prep cleaner, chemically cleans the surface of clearcoat and promotes molecular bonding of subsequent layers of clearcoat. It is also an adhesion promoter.

One of the downsides of some of the adhesion promoters is that they might not be clear, and leave a slight milky surface. Regular opaque paints cover this and you dont see it.

You have to be careful when choosing adhesion promoters under clear coatings. These products can leave residue or impact the clarity of the clearcoat.

I have had great success with rapid prep, but im sure there are other products out there from the automotive industry. I havent used very many.

You are confusing plastic primers with adhesion promoters.
There are indeed adhesion promoters that are made for and used on previously painted panels.
They are made to insure adhesion to panels that cannot be as thoroughly abraded as the panels being painted fresh.
These would be blend panels in the automotive refinishing fields.
Playfields are essentially blend panels when reclearing. You can’t truly thoroughly abrade them because of insert levels and the risk of breaking through into the art.
Spraymax is a much different animal than the things I use so I wouldn’t profess on that but please do not question my process or practices against that there is no carry over.

I agree there is no way to carry over your process, its perfect!

I dont profess to know anything about automotive finishing other than my experience with only playfield clearcoat and opaque colors for when I was restoring vending machines..

Ive used a lot of the spraymax glamour coat recently. It suits my needs and though a little finicky, has a good result.

Automotive finishing a complete mystical world best left to professionals like you!

I was testing SEMS adhesion promoter and didnt like the way it left a haze? residue?

What adhesion promoter would you suggest for non cleared playfields as well as previously cleared? There are tons of them.

Thanks it’s not something that I am guarding or anything it’s just not practical for most people or hobbyist.
Spray max definitely is so I appreciate the nature of the thread.
I recommend Cromax 222s it’s it absolutely clearable.
Depending on how milky some adhesion promoters look most clears will gloss right over them just like they do on sanded surfaces.
The real issue is if they are truly clear or somehow tinted.
Ones made for certain purposes are tinted.
Saying adhesion promoter is like saying clear,bondo etc sometimes.
There are various versions made for various purposes.
Devils always in the details. Hard details to explain at times.

Gotcha, makes total sense.

Ill take a look at the Cromax.

Thank you so much for your input!

And thanks for clarifying this up for us.

You're the best Chris!

So cromax is sprayed before the can?
Or is the promoter mixed with the clear?

In this case it would not work with this product due to the method of application/can.

Just a bit confused

You spray it and give it 5-10 minutes or so. There are rattle can adhesion promoters but like the man said, theyre probably not clear enough for clearcoat. Dunno. I’ve only used them under paint.

I ran a test of the SEMS adhesion promoter rattle can on a sample.

It left a haze and i didnt follow thru and clear over it to see if it was tinted or not.

It might be ok, as Chris said, it might just mix in and disappear. Or it will be really bad.

I would have to do further testing.

Unless someone else can chime in on it?

I have been lucky enough with 2k out of the can. I still own 2 out of 3 clear coated games and they still look good.
I am going to try the adhesive remover recommended by pinballinreno but otherwise my process will stay the same unless issues develop.

I need some opinions on what you do after you spray.
I don't have a perfectly clean environment and often get a few specks of dust into the clear.
I've seen multiple opinions and how and when to do the next steps, but I want to hear from you.
Thanks

wet sand and buff.

A few specs are ok, as you sand each coat before the next.

So its not critical.

On the final finish pass its a little more critical but not much.

You should still sand out the finish coat to thin the coating and flatten it further.

Then cascade up the grits and rub and buff.

A few specs wont matter at all.

I was hoping for more details.
Sand the whole playfield or just the specks?
What grit to start and end?
How long to wait to sand?
How long to wait to polish?
How do you polish?
What equipment do you you use and what products?

I've done quite a few playfields, but my polishing never comes out as nice as I'd like and I want to do better.

The whole thing.

All of this has been addressed in this thread.

1200,1500,2000,2500,3000 then use compounds with the buffer. Do the entire playfield. If you have a lot of roughness then start with 1000 grit.

Just did my first playfield with “2k in a can” .. an old Lost World I bought back from the edge.

Funny - this one is quite burgundy/red. When I saw the CPR ones they’re really purple. It must have faded badly somewhere along the way.

Anyway - as per previous post I used the Mipa2k from Germany. Very happy with how it came up. I did 4-5 very light passes 5 mins apart (flash time as per can instructions) and then a few heavier coats 5 mins apart. Probably 8 coats total.

Used up the one can …

So shall I go the whole hog and sand this back and use another can? (And if so, how long before I sand this back ..?)

Or just leave it be?

rd
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The next day after the first coat:

I block sand it down to start the flattening process and do my touch ups, keylines etc.

Then put on a light coat, then spray the paint into a jar and use a disposable pipette or dropper to fill all the low spots and insert edges.

Next day,block sand, then light coat, slpooge more clear into the low spots with a dropper, 2 meduim "wet" coats.

Next day flatten out the playfield by block sanding quite a bit to check for more low spots.

If its pretty flat, light coat, then a medium coat then 2 heavy "wet" finish coats. Basically a whole can.

If it looks mostly perfect, let it sit 6 to 10 weeks and assemble the playfield later.

If there is substantial die back at 6 weeks, block sand, fill low spots and put a heavy coat or 2 of paint.

Let it dry 4 weeks and then block sand to thin the paint a bit, then buff it out then start assembly.

The whole process is 3 or 4 cans of paint in 3 operations. 3 if all goes well enough.

1: mist coat to seal up loose fibers and give a foundation for touch ups

2: heavier filler coats.

3: finish coats.

8 coats from one can? How big is that can?

I only get 2 - 3 coats with me laying down a very light 1st coat.

From the pic you posted it looks like you took it right after you laid down your last coat, and it still has to flow out because you can see the texture to it.

It can also be that the coats were too light with not enough to flow out on each coat. It'd also explain how you got 8 coats.

-Paul

very light mist coats for the first pass. Its a good technique to avoid fisheyes and other horrible problems.

The next coats can be much heavier flow-out and filler coats.

That's exactly how I spray mine, and why I asked how he got 8 coats out of one can.

-Paul

400mls - Same as Spraymax I presume.

I always spray everything very light. Force of habit. Easier to spray more layers rather than sand off big runs.

The can has a great fan of spray - I would say 6” wide at the recommended 10” distance.

Those coats are literally - one run down, move can down, one run back, move can down, one run down .. etc. About 6 runs does the whole PF.

I really didn’t want the painted key lines and touchups to run. They’re safely locked there now.

I’ll do as suggested and give her a good sand down and hit it with the next can, using heavier coats.

rd

That makes sense how you got 8 coats out of a can. I think you'd be happier with laying coats down much thicker. You can watch how the spray flows out with your previous pass, and it'll flatten out nicely with very little sanding needed. Being that your playfield is laying flat you won't get any runs in it. It'll level itself out.

These pics won't be pretty, but here's what it looks like laying on a light 1st coat, and ending up with the 3rd coat. Which for me was about 1 can.

mist coat-
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2nd coat (heavy)-
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3rd coat about an hour after spraying (leveled out)-
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It was after this that I sanded flat, filled in the inserts, sanded flat again, and laid down an additional 2 coats.

-Paul

I wish I'd taken more pics of the process on this one, but I had a bad case of 'getdoneitis' so here's one pic that shows the finished result.

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I’ll post up some pics after spraying tomorrow.

rd

rotordave its your playfield.
How much clear you apply is really up to you.
With the one coat on there, everything is sealed and locked down.
Depending on how smooth and shiny you want it, you have the option of the 2nd and possibly a 3rd coat.
If you sand the first coat too aggresively you will burn thru the clear and possibly thru the touch ups.
The more clear you add after the first coat, the more you material you will have to sand allowing some insurance against burn thru. The more material you use, the longer the drying time. Also, the thicker the material, the more likely you will see some dimpling if you return to play too soon.

Blasted another can. Much heavier coats.

Yep - 3 coats max at that thickness.

Came up pretty good considering how it started!

rd

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Looks sweet!

Thanks!

It’ll do the job for that game.

Lost World ain’t worth spending $1800 NZ bucks on a new CPR playfield.

Plus - I sorta like the burgundy LE look.

rd

Looking good so far. You going to use a dropper for the inserts or just try to spray heavier over them?

You really have to use a dropper.

The spray walls up and wont get in the cracks.

Yep, I’m out of 2K.

It’ll be sitting around for a while until I can get some more.

No stress! Cabinet needs to be restored yet!

rd

That came out great!

Lost World was just a practice run for this one.

rd

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I thought so.
Are you pleased with the 2k?