Its 10 weeks or more to bounce a steel ball on it.

I buff and wax then start re-assembly at 10 weeks.

It takes me a couple weeks to finish, so an actual test game to flip a ball on it, would be in week 13 or 14.

I always start with the clearcoating of the playfield, then cabinet restoration and then rebuilding the mechs.

Even new playfields have to be cleared to counter the die back problems on new playfields, then wait 10 weeks.

It usually takes me 4 to 6 weeks to have a perfect cabinet and perfect new or rebuilt mechs.

Then a week to sort out wiring and new switches and sockets.

Everything seems to come together at the 10 week mark.

Its all part of a process that takes 4 months (or more) to produce a brand new (or better than new re-manufactured) game

Well alright then. Honestly waiting is the hardest part for me. I am super obsessive and just stopping kills me but I will do my best.

I also do a lot of woodworking and waiting the recommended time between coats of finish always catches me up.

Can I ask what specifically "die back" is?

I did start with the playfield but after cleaning and replacing inserts I put a light clear coat down and then waited two weeks. During that two weeks I re-did the cabinet. I still have some work to do on the cabinet and can rebuild mechs and polish metal guides but not more than a week or two.

Thanks a bunch for the advice.

I have used actual lemon essential oil to remove stickers my daughter laid down on a hardwood floor, and to my surprise, the sticker came off rather quickly, with no residue so I am wondering what other chemicals these have....

Die back is the shrinkage of the clearcoat as the solvents evaporate and it continues to harden.

The results of dieback are sunken grooves around inserts, and telegraphing of imperfections from the original surface to the new surface.

It sounds horrible but it generally is minimal with 2K and only noticable if you are super anal.
That however is about 90% of the people on pinside including myself

even brand new games, have die back. Just look closely around inserts and you will see it.

The clearcoat paint is 90% solvent.

As it dries over time the solvent leaves, the paint shrinks.

1mm of pant coating equals 1 10th of a mm after dry. Often even thinner.

I think the clearcoat is mostly stable at about 16 months.

Automobiles left in the hot sun cure in about 3 months.

Ron Kruzman says to hang his freshly restored playfields on the wall for 3-6 months before assembling and playing.
And he waits weeks before he sends it back to you, as he looks at the die back and makes adjustments.

Brand new playfields that were just made look gorgeous!

Wait 12 weeks and you see insert edges appear and wood grain appearing.

I always have to re-clear new playfields to flatten them out.

Its the hardest part for everyone, including games manufactures.

The biggest issue with playfields is improper curing and surface prep.

Big guys rush the games into production and then out to distributors.

People keep complaining about pooling, dents, clearcoat lifting or cracking etc.

All of this is because the factory has a very hard time waiting for the paint to dry, or the time (and expense) it takes to do a good job

Brand new games rarely pass the fingernail test under the apron.

Automotive clear is so incredibly hard when cured, you could never dent it with a fingernail.

Vid uses the nose test.

If you can still smell solvent coming off the paint, its not dry enough to play on.

Possibly ok to assemble, but thats where the pooling comes in...

Rapid remover is fascinating stuff.

You can actually see 30 year old crispy mylar glue absorb the fluid in 60 seconds.

Then just scrape off the globs with a plastic razor blade.

A couple more wipe downs with the remover and all glue is gone.

The remover is wiped off completely with naptha.

It will not promote fish eyes as a lot of cleaners or oils will.

It was specifically developed for automotive mylar that had been in the sun for decades.

And after sticker removal still be paint ready.

Rapid Prep is a final cleanser that chemically cleans and makes inert any wax, oils, silicones or other compounds that would interfere with clearcoat adhesion.

When a painter says its chemically cleaned before painting, they use rapid prep or a similar product. They are not talking about naptha, thats a different process generally after rapid prep.

I like all the rapid products because they are non-toxic, environmentally safe and work exceptionally well.

Actually closer to 60% solvents to be technical. But still alot shrinkage.

Following!

Yeah it depends on how much thinner is added for spraying too.

So, yeah a lot of shrinkage for sure.

Has anyone here used Mother’s CMX Surface Prep to clean their playfield before spraying?

https://www.semproducts.com/product/mothersr-cmxr-surface-prep

According to Mother’s own tech support it can be used for paint prep.

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I’ve finally obtained some aerosol 2k … not Spraymax, as it’s not available here, I’ve got a German equivalent called Mipa 2k. It’s got good reviews from what I’ve seen online. So let’s give it a go!

https://www.raj.co.nz/product-group/2243-mipa-2k-clearcoat-aerosol-fast-dry-gloss/category/442-clearcoats

My question - what are you guys using to do the lines around the inserts etc?

I usually use a Pebeo Oil based paint marker pen - has anyone tried these with 2k?

rd

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I used "posca" acrylic marker. Did not react.

https://www.raj.co.nz/product-group/2243-mipa-2k-clearcoat-aerosol-fast-dry-gloss/category/442-clearcoats

Looks exactly the same as spraymax 2K, its also made in Germany.

I use the molotow paint makers due to the very high pigment solids.

It doesnt bleed during the mist cost and primary lite coat.

You might do a test application to see if the Pebeo is ok. Theroetically if its oil based it should be fine.

Shine a light under the insert to see if they cover well.

I did this with several makers and chose the molotow as it covered really well.

Rapid-prep eats oil based markers and smears them, naptha does not so much.

Be cautious when wiping down before clearing.

Heavy coats over markers might cause a bleed, but Im always careful.

Im using Rapid-Prep for final wipe down, before a naptha wipe down.

Eastwoods recommends it. Its tried and true.

Im not comfortable using something else.

Im very happy with the fish-eye protection that Rapid-Prep does.

Thanks for the replies re the markers.

I used to use the Poscas and Mototow acrylic ones, I changed to the oil based as it seemed to be more hardy. I use them a lot for cabinet repairs, the oil ones seem to not rub off long term when you wipe the cab down or on the corners etc.

As you suggest, I’ll do some tests before spraying and see what happens.

rd

CMX prep test worked. Followed directions on the bottle, and followed up with a wipe with a tack rag right before beginning to spray.

Started out with a mist coat followed by 3 light coats. No fish eye detected. Plenty of planking that I can work on once it dries and filling in low spots.

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This is really good to know.

Anyone have any tricks for keeping sanding gunk out of the holes on the playfield. I came up with this hand flapper sander thing but it would be nice to avoid it altogether.

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I use this kit in my drill motor:

https://www.harborfreight.com/engine-brush-kit-20-pc-63732.html

They dont have to fit tight, lots of sizes for the money.

A .22 cal brass bore brush is the most handy for sanding out clearcoat in post holes.

Its best not to drill clear out of post holes due to possible chipping problems.

any left over is scraped off with an exacto knife (front or backside) #11 blade or a scalpel.

I think vid suggests foam ear plugs

Thanks, I will see if my HF has those brushes. I think I read that ear plug thing but I am wondering if he keeps them in between coats or removes them when spraying clear.

I've used those brushes to clean out oxidation in old bayonet sockets on EMs. They work great.

You leave the ear plugs in while you spray and only remove them at the end after you have polished the playfield. It keeps the dust and clear from getting into your bulb sockets and reduces the clean up later. I usually only use them for sockets, and holes I can't quite get to putting a layer of tape on the bottom of.

For final clean up, I like to use these dremel bits to sand out excess clear. They are small enough to even get into the rollover switch slots.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004UDHM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

A few more coats and the Spring Break will be ready to get a final sand and cure while I get the cabinet fixed up.
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I dont use any plugs at all.

Its not really worth the hassle.

Holes that need cleaning clean up quickly during assembly.

After clearing and sanding, i wash out the holes from polishing compounds with naptha and small brushes.

Are you completely stripping your playfields top and bottom? If so I can see the logic there. If you are tearing down only the topside, the plugs do help.

Your clear doesn't seem to be levelling out. Seems to have a lot of surface texture. How far away are you spraying?

I find that if the holes are not plugged, you must remove the sanding / polishing residue that night or it turns to kryptonite.
You can get it out at a later date but it sucks.
Part of it probably depends on how you sand and polish and what you are using in those processes. Also, how quickly you complete the process. All in one night or over several months.

About 6 inches. The real issue is living in central Florida, it’s so hot that it sets up very very quickly. It’s dry to the touch in 15 minutes or less so it doesn’t get a chance to flow and settle. I end up having to spray an extra coat or two and sand back to flat. I could get a flatter coat if I mixed my own and adjust the formulation using an HVLP sprayer. Maybe next project.

What about a window shaker cooling your spray booth?

Lol, ive never just done a topside refresh.

Though it can have pretty good results.

I see so much grime and worn parts, i end up with a total tear down on the games that come my way.

These days i dont even bother trying a patch job.

I go right to the total tear down.

That would be a good solution. Maybe at some point I’ll create a real paint set up.

I only do full tear downs if I’m doing a playfield swap. I’ll still rebuild flippers, swap coil sleeves and stops, and toss all the mechs in the ultrasonic and tumbler even when just refinishing the top side. I just don’t bother with pulling the wiring harness and lamp sockets if there is no need.

So I just finished my last coat. Overall it looks pretty good. I thought I would do my last one yesterday but in getting it perfectly flat I took off some paint in high spots and had to retouch it. However my question is why am I getting these small bubbles? I am sure they will sand out but I am just curious if I am doing something wrong. Here was my setup:
1. 80deg, 30% hum
2. Heated can in warm water
3. Cleaned playfield with naptha then Rapid-prep then a final wipe with a tack cloth just before spraying
4. Spraying in a small booth with filtered down draft
5. Spraying about 6" away to get a full wet coat
6. Medium-heavy coat about 3/4 of a can

I see the bubbles form immediately and can remove some with over-spraying but some form after I spray. The surface I sprayed on was solid flat clear at about 1500 grit sanded. Kind of hard to get a good picture but I did my best.

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Laid on too thick and getting solvent pop? Inadequate flash-off time between coats?

Your order of operations is off here. You need to wipe with naptha AFTER rapid prep.

From Rapid Tac's Website (https://rapidtac.com/rapid-prep.html)

STEP 1. Spray liberally on surface to be cleaned.

STEP 2. Using a plain white household paper towell, thoroughly wipe surface from center outward until dry.

STEP 3. Repeat step 2

STEP 4: Now you must clean surface again with Rapid Tac or Rapid Tac II, to remove residues of Rapid Prep and its silicone,grease,etc. contaminants

I also prefer not to use tack cloth and go for compressed air instead. The components in tack cloth are usually petroleum based, and I don't want anything contaminating the surface before spraying clear. I save them for my cabinet resprays.

I have done quite a few coats and sanding to get this level and they way it is spraying for me a "light coat" looks dimply just like the Springbreak in post 1368 above. A medium coat is fully wet but has a orange peel texture. I sprayed the minimum I could and still not have the orange peel (like medium-heavy). I have to get pretty close for it to wet and lay flat. Going over and over with light coats just gives orange peel. So all that said, it is as light as I can go but still pretty heavy.

I did this coat 24 hours after the last coat.

Well I guess I will try that order of operations next time although I am hoping not to have to spray again. Compressed air is not a great option for me given my small paint area, it disturbs the plastic and tends to drop bits of stuff from above. I guess I could do a tack and then a quick Naptha right before spraying.

To be honest I don't see any solid contamination, just the bubbles so maybe I can skip the tack cloth altogether as long as I spray soon after cleaning.

The more I think about it I think I just needed to clean better. I had some touchup paint spots and I didn't want to disturb them so I did a fairly light cleaning.

I have never warmed the can.
My ritual does include actually timing how long i shake the can.

I will be honest that I probably only shake the can for 2 minutes. 5 minutes before and after puncture seems like a very long time but that is probably my general impatience.

I warm the cans in hot tap water if they are cool to the touch.

I just put one in the sink of as hot of tap water i can get before shaking and puncturing, for about 15 mins.

If the can is warm, or at least not cold, it sprays better.

I shake it for the 2 mins while in the booth.

Clean with rapid prep in the spray booth.

Sort out the spray can.

Use naptha and a tack rag immediately before spraying.

I keep pipettes, tweezers, tape, a little table, naptha, paper towels, mixing cups and whatever i might need in the booth as well as a timer.

The timer is crucial for good results.

You can never wipe with the tack rag too much.

Often i wipe down seconds before spraying, just in case lol.

Well after a lot of sanding and polishing I think I am pretty much there. It is very flat and has a good shine. There are some very fine lines from sanding that I am still chasing but they don't show up in pictures. Because I did a lot of spraying and sanding to get it flat I am probably a week out from the first spray so I am hoping my "die-back" is minimal. I will do a final polish after it is fully cured.

I will note that it currently passes both the "finger-nail" and "smell" test. I am still going to wait but those may not be the best method to confirm a full cure.

I am pretty happy with it but still learning a lot. At this point the clear job is probably about as nice as the paint job so chasing it much further doesn't matter too much. I am definitely not very efficient but the finished product is what counts.

I will say that I feel like I am a little limited on the 2k. It kind of sprays how it sprays and I just have to live with it. I am no expert on a full HPLV setup (I have done two but as a true novice) so I am sure there are a lot of learning curves there but I am contemplating going back and trying that again on my next one. I have been watching HEP's videos and am so jealous of his setup and skills. Everything looks mirror perfect but he has 40 years of high-end painting experience so what are you going to do. I was laughing today about what I would have thought two years ago when I got into pinball that 75% of my effort was basically improving my painting and coating skills.

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There certainly advanges to either method.

I dont have access to naptha where I live. It is banned here and really do not want to experiment with camp fuel to see what happens.

All that to say, can I just use rapid prep followed by rapid tac and get spraying?

You can buy naphtha at Sherwin-Williams on Clyde Ave. I got a can from there.

Dont use rapid tac. Its not necessary

Looks really good.

You dont need a lot of equipment to spray a 2 foot square piece of plywood.

Wait 10 days. It will absolutely die back. Absolutely.

At 10 days it will show you where its going.

Sand with 800

Fill the die back with a dropper and put on a super heavy coat:

Mist coat wait 7 mins.

Heavy coat, 1/3 a can or slightly less or more.

Wait 10 mins

Heavy coat, other 1/3 of the can.

Put enough paint to cover any drip fills you did. Puncture any bubbles with a straight pin.

Dont run out the can dry, it will splatter and ruin the finish. Throw away the bottom 1/4 can.

Make sure you tape a dam along the upper edge of the can and frequently dump.out the rim.

This is where those big drips ruin a perfect job.

Wait 10 weeks and you are done.

Essentially you can sand with 1000 cascade up to 4000, and buff, to flatten again and fix any rough spots at this time.

Coleman fuel.

In Colorado Naptha also just got banned but I got 2 gallons of the stock they had. I would note that I went into an auto-finishing place for some custom spray cans and they had stuff that I am pretty sure is basically Naptha (something like "Rapid dry cleaner" or something like that"). It is for "professionals" only but I am pretty sure the place I was at they would have happily sold it to me.

Also I can just drive up to Wyoming....

Thanks, I wanted to get as many lines out now as I could assuming it would be harder in a week or so but I am ready to hang it up.