No.... Not more talk about dimples. Keep the dimples out of here.

I know one well regarded restoration person who typically waits 6 months before adding his clearcoat to the reproduction playfields from CPR specifically because of this issue. Lets it completely cure and settle and then he can perfect it on top of that.

I just acquired a CPR Silver Skatebally playfield and nearly all the inserts have slight die-back on them. In reality probably never an issue in my home collection, but since I am not in a rush to do the swap I'm considering adding some more clearcoat to it to try to get them perfect.

Time is not the only factor. Humidity is also a huge issue.
If it’s cleared and cured at another humidity than where you gonna use it there will be more movement. Because the wood will shrink but the plastic inserts will not. My advice is to after last coat let it cure for AT LEAST 6 month at the same humid as you gonna play it. Then when you gonna install it sand it flat and polish it. That way you have the best odds. But wood and plastic is different materials so lines around inserts can always happen.

Fully understand your viewpoint about a 6 month wait but let’s be honest here. Doing multiple clears like one to lock in original paint wait 6 months, one to lock in colours wait 6 months , final clear wait 6 months. That time line is out to lunch. If the 6 month time is a valid thing it has to be applied to each clear level. All vehicles don’t wait in the body lot for 6 months after professional work but granted they are using other products with different specifications.

I think it’s the spray max and how it cures without high booth temps maintained for 48 hours and or no short wave curing used.

I’m tempted to try short wave curing and see how that looks after a few months.

If you are referring to me. What I meant was to wait 6 months after final coat.

Its metal and plastic. Not plastic inserts in wood with changeing humidity. So the comparison is not good.

SprayMax 2K is not worse/better than other 2K clear coats. Its up to you what you do. Just saying what I think gives the best odds to avoid/minimize the issue. But there are many factors to take in account.

If you get it sprayed by the best clear coaters on this site I know they also wait a lot. There is no shortcut.

Has anyone used SprayMax clear to fill in depressions as Vid suggests in his playfield restore thread (he specifically talks about using "2pac" which is apparently traditional 2-part auto clear)? I would assume SprayMax is basically the same (gloss + hardener) so if I spray it in a cup and drop it on to the depression with a dropper would that work just fine? I have some low spots where decals were not as thick as the removed insert decal. Either I have to re-decal and double up on them or fill. I already re-painted over the decals so they are substantial and have the same sort of transparency as the other decals on the game so as far as I am concerned I just need to fill and maybe clear over the game again. I'm on 3 light coats already with sanding in between. I was doing a final sanding when the raised edges of the insert depression (the regular height of the playfield around the depression) started wearing through a bit so I know that will end up being an issue. I re-touched up with acrylic and am ready to clear again. I was thinking just drop some clear on, level it out, sand.. and then re-clear the whole playfield with another can of 2X (3 light coats). Suggestions?

Yep, spray in a cup and use an eye dropper to deposit into the depression.

Sweet, thanks

Aw dang, I guess I needed to spray a layer of clear down first because the dropped on clear messed up the acrylics. It picked up some of it and moved it. I think it's not messed up enough to try and do anything about it, but seems liked that was a step missed. Seems like it is taking a long time for this to harden, is it that much longer when it is that much thicker?

How old were the acrylics? I just sprayed a pf with 2k . Some of the touch ups were acrylics but I had no issue. I did touch ups about a month ago. I had to wait for a warm enough day to spray.
We're your touch ups fresh?

I am not sure the acrylic would have any tooth if you painted over the water slide decals. There is nothing for it to bond to.

Ironically, it was more the border that was basically outside the waterslide. But the waterslide was cleared over first before using acrylics. The acrylic paint was just bought from Amazon, in terms of age, but the paint on the playfield was there for maybe a few hours, dried with a hair dryer.

The drops of 2X are still a bit gummy... maybe it went on too thick, I don't know... it wasn't a lot, used an eye dropper and just filled up the very shallow depressions. Going to check it again in a bit. It's fairly warm here these days, 75F or so, shouldn't be a problem there.

Yeah, I meant the dry time.
I thought it was the acrylics that lifted.
I hope it all works out.

I wound give it at least 48 hours to dry before you sand.

To date what has worked great for me is spray some in a cup and let it sit for a few min so the bubbles rise and leave the clear, then apply a thick amt of clear with a dropper over low spots, wait 15 min, then spray a heavy layer, 15 min flash time, then heavy again. The can will be empty at that point. I then let it cure in our paint booth that is 40 deg for 48 hours before I do any sanding.

Thanks. I ended scraping it off after not curing for 6 hours. Like it was still soft. Maybe this can isn't good, going to spray a test piece to make sure it cures. Also just going to double up on the water slide so I don't have to level it as much.

Spray max will stay fairly soft for over 12 hours.

I removed the insert covering (clear and waterslide) and sprayed two thin coats of clear from the same can, seems to be drying/curing just fine. So maybe using 2X to build up a spot isn't viable? I think I built it up enough that I don't need to do two waterslide or drop any more clear on there. Going to sand a bit, do some acrylic touch ups and then clear again.

Yea, so I had no luck with the dropper method. However, I did some spot clear coat around the areas that were low and that built them up somewhat. Then I did the acrylics and waterslides and sprayed another light coat on. When that was cured I did my last coat of clear..and I realized, I needed to lay a much heavier coat than I was. The lighter coats I did ended up with a lot of "orange peel" to the look, which is fine when you sand it down. However, the much heavier coat I did went on almost like epoxy, it flowed and leveled out.

The "C" and the "S" don't look exactly like the others, but for my first time I think they came out OK. I had to do the text on BUNKER on a water slide because I had to sand it off when I had to remove that dropped on clear coat. I did a bunch of color touchups around that hole. Overall I think the whole thing looks decent for doing this rouge style, outside in the wind. I even sprayed some touch ups in my house, smell wasn't that bad and I just left the room with a window open. Used a mask, of course.

Now to sand and buff. How long should I wait before doing those things?

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I spray about 5” from the field one side to the other then back spray again moving the other direction, then move down 4 “ and repeat. Finish the field, wait 15 min then do the same. Looks like glass and zero orange peel what so ever. I wait about 2 weeks before the final sand and polish. The tables I’m working on now I want to cure for a month if possible prior to sanding.

That's almost exactly what I did, and came out like glass for sure.

Damn... 2 weeks, eh.. I don't really want to sit around with the game apart for that long but I guess it's for the good of the playfield! I figured that stuff cured much quicker, I mean they don't sit around waiting 2 weeks to repair a car.

True about not taking so long about body repair but some add other activator components to their 2 part mix that will build more heat. I bought a auto body mid wave length unit and I’m experimenting with it. It’s amazing to see how the clear reacts to heat build up from within.

Well... so... ? I was sanding coats of this stuff within a few hours, seemed fine. Am I really going to see an issue if I sand within a day? I won't be repopulating it right away, have to do the underside first. So it will sit for a week or so.

You wait because you want to minimize shrinkage (when you do final sanding)
Also do the nail test. If you easily can make a mark when pressing down your nail (do it on an invisible area on the playfield) don’t play it.
It might be hard to wait. But if you want a good result it’s worth it.

K, ty

You used SprayMax2K in your house with the window open??!?? your nuts, that stuff is friggin toxic man. I built a spray booth in my garage and wore an alomost hazmat suit and it was still rank.

I have had problems with bubbles using the dropper so now I just spray a little in a cup and bend the rim to a point and pour a little on, I haven’t had problems with bubbles doing it this way.

Yeah.. spare bedroom, gas mask on... small sprays for specific areas. Close the door when done, let it air out. Wasn't that bad. I was also "painting" it on some touchup areas on another game, not that bad.

Isocyanates are no joke. There is no way these should ever be used in your home, even with brand new OV cartridges. Holy moly.

Where's the video of the dude spraying in his basement without a mask?

I dunno, but this is what happened to him: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/12/bronchial-blood-clot/577480/ (Not safe for lunch)

I agree that 2k is deadly.
I do not believe that news clip is true.

Well, it wasn't the spray paint, but the bronchial cast image is as real as it gets. Here's the case, from the New England Journal of Medicine: https://www.nejm.org/doi/abs/10.1056/NEJMicm1806493

I can vouch that a bronchial blood clot can really happen- and does look even more freaky in person (work as a nurse and have seen one in real life that was removed from patient) however this had nothing to do with 2k.

I get it, but I think you might all be overreacting. I had a mask on with gas cartridges (I used it for handling caustic chemicals for water treatment), I had a window open, I sprayed for like maybe 5-10 seconds and left the room. They were touch ups on waterslide decals. If you're telling me that this amount of spraying does irreparable harm for infinity in my house I'd have trouble believing that.

And then there is me, all cautious and stuff.....lol

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I sprayed the majority of my clear outside, so I just wore the mask. I don't know if there is some health issue with it getting on your skin (I get so many other chemicals on my skin who knows which one is going to kill me) but I didn't wear any other PPE aside from glasses. I did get some overspray on a car, it flew a LONG way but came right off. And even with some wind there was almost nothing stuck to the playfield. I imagine this stuff cures so quickly than it has way less time than rattle can crap.

Here is the finished polished playfield. I didn't have the patience to wait and I can't imagine anyone doing auto body work is waiting that kind of time. Took a good amount of time with a drill/buffing pad but it's like glass. Used high end auto care products to buff, Mazerna, 3M and the like. The best was 3M swirl remover for dark cars. Took most of the fine scratches out and then some Mazerna final polish II and it came out like glass. Carnauba wax and it's niceee.
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The JP looks awesome. I own one and know what a pia it is to shop. Tearing it down for clear coat must blow.
I too clear outdoors. The results are always good and the lighting is fabulous. Not much cleanup either.
The 2k is more expensive per mile but there are no additional solvents, guns or material to go bad.
As far as ppe I wear a respirator, safety glasses, latex gloves and a long sleeve shirt.
I usually stay out of the drifting cloud of overspray.

Really not that bad. I didn't find it much more difficult than my Cyclone. Only problem is that you can't easily remove the whole wiring harness from the game so I just flipped the playfield to the side. I had a spare playfield that I was restoring so it worked out. I don't think I could deal with spending the money on auto clear when I use it so rarely. Really it took one can of SprayMax but I ended up using two for unrelated reasons. The keeping it active in the fridge worked a treat.

I have my TOM playfield about 4/5 way torn down and was just going to put a playfield protector on it but now that I see how good the JP looks I might just clear it. I am worried about the time it will take to get it ready combined with trying to not remove all the under playfield stuff (and still be able to wet sand and polish without getting stuff all in the mechs). If I decide I have to take everything off I may just not do it and go with the protector. Tough choice. It just looks so nice all done.

Those OV cartridges actually have a time limit for absorption after you unseal them and first expose them to organic vapour. They're designed for a short work day in non-concentrated environments for low-level organic vapour. For high-level OV, specifically isocyanates, in an enclosed spray area such as a room or spray tent it goes down to 15-30 minutes as per 3M filter guides.

Once the clock has started ticking on an opened cartridge, it doesn't stop. They are no longer effective after one day. Cartridge filters on a gas mask opened on another day are definitely no longer any good. If you are using 2K spray, you need to be using a new, unopened set of cartridges for every single application of clear.

I'm not telling you this because I'm being an argumentative jerk. I'm telling this because I've seen good friends seriously harm themselves through this type of chemical exposure at work, and at home doing hobby stuff. I moved from being a construction electrician to a professional safety educator because I hate seeing my friends get hurt. My own dad is managing lung cancer, likely because of exposure to carcinogenic chemicals like 2K. Please, please, please go buy a supplied air respirator or a new pack of cartridges if you want to keep participating in this hobby that we all love.

Odd, nothing I researched for the chemical work I was doing with the mask suggested the cartridges worn out that fast. Good to know, I'll just spray outside from now on.

So I haven’t done anything yet, just trying to get a feel for it. A typical playfield clear runs around 5 cans ($75) plus a mask ($40) plus a set of $10 filters for each day ($50?) that actual painting is done plus 6 weeks or so. Plus misc like sandpaper and a paint booth. Does that sound about right?

If you're trying to do it right,lol. I only needed 2 cans. Did it in about 2 weeks.

I would say if your just giving it a clear only and not requiring clear to lock in color touch ups you only need 2 cans (22$ each) Mask is about 50$ with filters installed, My filters are still working fine as after each use they are taken off and sealed away. Sandpaper for project is about 10$ worth.

Hi Wolffcub, per 3M, those cartridges, even when sealed after usage, degrade after first exposure and are no longer suitable for continued use. They aren't particulate filters: there is an active chemical reaction that occurs inside them that neutralizes organic vapour. After first exposure, they degrade continuously even when not in use. They must be replaced on each repeated exposure. Your filters are definitely not working fine, even if you cannot smell the volatile carrier solvents.

So, you're basically saying that for a single playfield restore which might take a week or so of timespan to get all the clear laid down you need a few or more of these cartridge sets? I assume the only other option is a fresh air feed?

Yes. You will need a brand new set of new OV+N95 cartridges for each single application of clear. For example, five coats over five days and a couple of dropper touch up sessions is going to be seven new pairs of cartridges. The chemical neutralization agent may be good at clearing some components for a whole day, but they are only effective against other ingredients for a short time, and then the agent is used up.

This is why everyone involved, from the pinheads at the top of the thread, to the respirator manufacturer, to the producer of 2K Auto clear all tell you straight up that you might as well go out and buy a supplied-air respirator, since it will last you many applications and will never expire.

From Nexreg (the manufacturer of 2K), here are the components of 2K Glamour, and beside it, the minimum cartridge requirement from 3M:
Dimethyl ether 39.70% : Supplied air or OV(Short life ONLY)
Acetone 20.11% : Supplied air or OV(Short life ONLY)
n-Butyl acetate 11.87% : Full mask OV
Hexamethylene diisocyanate homopolymer 6.18% : OV+N95
Xylenes (o-, m-, p- isomers) 3.21% : OV
Propylene glycol monomethyl ether acetate 1.21% : OV
Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether acetate 1.09% : OV
Ethylbenzene 0.8% : OV

This cannot be used with half masks, as the n-Butyl acetate is quickly absorbed through your eyes and exposed facial skin. n-Butyl acetate is known to cause acute(immediate) symptoms and damage to your central nervous system. It causes immediate damage to your brain.

This cannot be used with OV cartridges alone.There must be an N95 filtration component due to the content of Hexamethylene diisocyanate homopolymer. This is essentially airborne uncured rubber. The N95 pre-filter separates the particles of this in the air before they clog up the OV cartridge. Using an OV cartridge alone will result in the cartridge almost immediately being gummed up with polymers, rendering it useless and allowing everything through.

Cartridges cannot be used more than 30 minutes after the seal is broken: Dimethyl ether and acetone exposure render OV cartridges useless shortly after initial exposure. 3M recommends supplied air for this reason: They do not trust their own cartridges to help you for more than a few minutes. They would rather you be safe than sell you extra cartridges. It is that bad for you.

tl;dr: In conclusion, the minimum cartridge protection for any level of exposure to the 2K product, regardless of open air or in a booth, is full face mask coverage coupled with cartridges marked OV/N95. Do not install one OV and one N95 cartridge. They must match. They must be replaced every time you spray a new coat or touch up, and 30 minutes after opening. If this seems like too much expense and trouble, use a supplied air respirator system with a full mask facepiece.

Amazon has a forced air breather set for $165. It is impractical as-is but I bet you could extend the hose to 20 feet or so so it’s outside the paint booth

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Constant-Supplied-Respirator-System/dp/B071ZYYBW6/ref=sr_1_1