Yes Mosanto Roundup comes to mind. It has been legally removed from most of European countries, as very carcinogenic.

Yves

I’m not camping out in the tent while I spray the PF. The goal is to mitigate FOD from getting on the PF. Here is the process. Pick a still day; no wind, low humidity and temp >70F. Get the cars out of the garage. Leave the garage door open. Sweep floor. Setup tent. Put PF inside of tent on sawhorses. PPE up (Tyvec, respirator, goggles, gloves), spray a coat, put screen flap down on tent, get the heck away, doff PPE, get inside and wait for half an hour for coat to cure. There is zero chemical exposure to me.

I’m not sure I understand the spraying weeds analogy comment. I do occasionally see people out on their driveway spraying weeds down wind wearing shorts and flip flops. They have a completely different mentality in their approach to handling hazardous chemicals than I do.

Have been working on my BK playfield in preparation for my SM2K clear job. I repainted the "yellowed" white areas under the slings, ramps, etc. Wow, what a huge difference. I did a first coat to lock in the paint and then did my touch ups and a waterslide decal. Today I sanded out the playfield with 400 grit (extremely gently over my touchups and decal) and did a couple light coats to cover the decal and the touch ups, then after another 20 minute flash, I covered heavier. Tonight I sanded it again with 400 and just "dripped" usually a syringe SM2K into the low areas and around almost all of the inserts. I'll wait still it dries completely before trying to sand it out. This is my first playfield clear coating experience and I am a bit nervous, but so far am very pleased.

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What's going on with your keylines in that last photo?

From his post, it appears to be clear he dripped around every insert to fill in gaps and low places.

Exactly that. I syringed the SM2K around all the inserts to fill in small gaps. I will then sand it all out flush.

Yes I can tell you that Colore' Acrylics work great underneath this clear coat, presumably most acrylics will work good (thank Vid). I was an enamel guy that's what these playfields were most likely silk screened with but you just cant get the feathering that acrylics can do. The only nice thing about using enamels over acrylics is that you know the color wont change. I like to use some naptha over my touch-ups before I clear to see if they'll darken or not. Aqua typically is the hardest color to match, it will almost always darken once the clear is applied.

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Acrylics paint by Liquitex are working perfectly, too. These are artist quality, and you should get the soft body for best results.
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They can be found at Dick-Blick, Jerry Artrama and other art shops. Michael's may carry them but not always.

I have used them many times, under clear coat and they will last many decades without any alteration.

Yves

Been doing it for nearly 7 years, and if you want that on your EMs it works great but changes the game dynamics big time. Hard as nails when done, and looks great yet unoriginal when done right. There is no way around it, semi or gloss. I have tried, and wasted weeks working to get it just so. The product is what it is. On modern games SS and beyond its just a matter of being artful and having details in mind, and then clean and shoot. The rest is just rebuild and you have a game that is going to last a LONG time after that regarding being played a lot, abused, and not well maintained. Just depends on what you want to do, weekly cleaning on games on location (if you are a location operator) or once off cleaning, artwork touch ups, and shoot and never look back after putting it all back together. I'm on the page these days of doing less clear coats, and much more weekly maintainence or less as its in the end less time consuming, and ultimately you have to touch the games to know they are working (aka, play a few games once a week, and don't fall out of love with your hoard). If you are doing for the sake of it, well then money and time are not important.

Agree completely, expensive but dense colors, mix well and of course work under 2K very well. Then the time to mix match is another ball of worms completely. Total time consumer, unless you hit it right with a good eye first time. I have made palettes of mixes containing 100s of mix 'drops' by ratio, and gotten close most times, hit it right sometimes, and of course the brain compensates for it if you get is close enough. Its a riot when you get a color from a bottle that matches, and that is the advantage you have by buying a TON of them, in fact all (I have about 400+ colors from various makers). Nuts, yes. Saves time on occasion, you bet.

It is amazing how much paint you accumulate in the hobby.

Hey folks, question on prepping PF. I have read and see that using naphtha and a tack cloth is the answer for the prep. But, what I havent ever read, even on Vid's guide I don't think is - Do i wipe it all down with just a microfibre dampened/soaked with naphtha? or scrub it or what? Then tack cloth it then clear? is there a best waiting time between wiping down and clear?

Personally I rather use a fresh paper towel soaked, just wipe it off gently, it will evaporate within a few mins. You do it to remove any contaminants right before you spray.

Now i'll have to decide on method. I've read, light coat, light sand, then heavier coat, then heavier coat, i've read, heavy assed huge coat, sand, polish, done. I need to make a decision.

paper towels aren't lint free tho.. so you can kind of be working against yourself.

Two separate processes.. that can be combined depending on the products used. Removal of contaminants like skin oil, and removal of dry contaminants like dust, debris, etc.

Tack cloths are good for the second (dry), but aren't for the oils. That's why we use paint prep or naptha which are solvents to remove the oils. If you use a good lint free cloth that can capture everything... wiping with it and naptha can handle both needs in one step. Tack cloths still excess at removing all the dry stuff... wiping wet can be deceiving as dry stuff blends in wet.

The naptha will dry out before you could turn around and get ready to spray anyways Literally it will dry up in under a minute.

The point isn't to scrub or flood with the naptha - it's to remove any containments on the surface. The Tact cloth does the same for dry stuff... trappping it and removing. You can dry wipe with tact, and then a quick pass with naptha on a lint free cloth... and a minute later you're ready. Should be no residue or debris on the surface... else you are trapping it under the clear.

That's one well-spoken tack cloth.

A soaked paper towel is better than just about anything else I've ever tried to use, every washed or new tac cloth always seem to have fuzzies on them somewhere and always seems to catch on some wood gi lamp hole or something. Fold it 4 times and soak it in naptha liberally (should be dripping wet) you'll be fine. I like to wipe in rows like your cleaning a window not circles.

You want me to walk you threw it, make sure you level out your pf on the rack (both directions) this stuff is somewhat self leveling, spray that 1st can on there about 80% so you don't get any splatter. The first coat should be medium and walk away for a few mins (3-4) then come back keep spraying another 2-3 complete coats should empty out that can. Let that sit up overnight, hit it with 1,500 next day wet sanding then spray 2 more cans the same way letting that first coat firm up for a few mins, also waiting about 5 min between cans to let it firm up more. Let it sit again 24 hours and finish block wet sand with 1,500-2,000 grit (use a small block 2"x3") then hit it with a firm pad and the Mag Ultimate compound.

spray in rows like this guy, SM2K sprays out just like a gun with a wide angle try and keep your tip clean every few rows hold the can level and spray out some away from the pf (on the wall) to just to clean the nozzle.

Thanks for all the tips using this product.
Do you just use 1500 or do you step up to that grit? Also can you go into a little more detail about spraying 80% so you don’t get splatter?

Yea just use 1,500 then once its all sanded step up to 2,000 it makes smaller scratches and makes it easier for the rubbing compound to bring back up the shine. Don't go any lower you just don't need to 1,500 eats this stuff just fine.

Like any aerosol can once you get down to the bottom it tends to splatter when the product is low, just keep shaking the can once you notice it spraying out weird and the can feels sorta empty ditch it. If you get a few splatter drops it wont hurt it at all it will just absorb into the wet coat you just layed down but you want to keep that to a minimum.

Also its important to run your exhaust fans for 2 hours after you spray, this keeps particulate matter out of the air and off the pf, its generally dry to the touch in 20 min but it keeps the thinners evaporating (gas) off the surface of the pf as well. Then just let it dry naturally for 24 hours.

How long to keep the heat up in the "spray booth area" it'll be in my garage and i'm in Saskatchewan, which means cooling off already and the evenings are cool, don't mind putting heater in garage at all, probably cures better/faster with warmer temps?

My plan will be to toss a regular fan on the outside of my "out" filter blowing out the garage window during the process.

Thx for tips so far guys!

Yes 85 degrees F or 29.44C and leave the pf in there too so everything gets warm. It's a old spray booth trick some of the top painters will turn on the heaters with the car or parts in there, it helps the initial coats really adhere. Once you put on the exhaust fan everything will start cooling off while you spray. 75-85 degrees Fahrenheit and 50% humidity is the ideal range for painting.

I would tell you to bake it after you spray and the overspray particulate has all been vented out but don't know what kind of heater you have access to, I have a ceramic heater and ducting that is indirect the wrong heater and your garage goes boom from the evaporating thinners. Just let it dry naturally, keep your exhaust fans on for 2 hours after you spray your coats, then close the door and let it naturally bake overnight. Don't worry about particulate matter contaminating the finish after about 20 min its pretty much dry to the touch, anything that falls on the surface you'll sand off when you wet sand although you shouldn't get hardly anything on there.

Yeah, that's what I get for posting before fully awake

Better then my "tac cloth" lol spelling sux

I am curious how folks are handling touch ups with Spraymax. Vid's guide suggests spraying a light coat of clear before touching up, but that sounds difficult to do with Spraymax. Has anyone had success either touching up before clear coating or after doing a light coat of Spraymax?

SM2K is like regular clear-coat. You can do touch-ups before spraying (that is what I do) or after a first layer.

Yves

Hey folks, just doing this so it`s easily find able for me soon.

That’s one way to do it.

But in case you weren’t aware, there is another very useful feature in the forums... you can click the bookmark symbol near the bottom left of the post and then click “save post bookmark”. It even allows you to add tags so you can search your bookmarks later. I use tags such as “mods” or “tech repair” or “restoration”, etc.

You can basically build your own library of useful posts that you’d like to refer back to.

Ahhhhh,
On that side, I was looking for something like that. Thx!!!

Just sprayed my last two heavy coats tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to let it cure a couple of weeks and then wet sand and buff.

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Nice job epeabs! That will be a smooth BK when you are done.

I also did my last heavy coat on sunday morning using the Spray Max. Going to wait till Friday then start the final wet sand.

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One of the great things with SM2K (an clear in general I guess). Is the feeling when you first sand it dull. When you then put on the clear all colors just pop. You stand back and look at it and are just amazed about the difference it makes.
Great feeling ☺️

The surface looks very uneven. That will required quite a bit of sanding it looks like. No sure why it ended up this way...

The clear's surface tension walls-up around holes and edges.

That's why you sand between coats; to keep the playfield flat.

It's totally normal:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/20#post-1795975

Nope, a light 120 grit sanding (on a large sanding pad), will quickly knock down those hills around openings.

Follow with 220, 400, 800, 1000 - each smaller grit requires less strokes than the one before it.

I figured the playfield should be pretty flat by the time the last coat is applied.

We all think that the first time we shoot 2PAC. Thinking that it will behave more like lacquer, but instead it pulls back and walls-up around every opening.

You always see pics on Pinside of people who get their playfield back from being clearcoated. They are very shiny, but not flat - because the clearcoater did not finish the job.

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Im excited to start sanding!!!! What has your experience been about the time waiting before actually start to wet sand? Last coat has been on for 36 hours.

I think he's referring to the wavy-ness of the light that's hitting the playfield in flat areas. Is that normal?

Poor top. The wet sanding raised the wood under the clear. I was easy on the water and even kept soaking up any extra

OH NO!!! Dude that sucks is it bad?

That's normal.

It looks worse after a month of dieback.

Here is a Fathom with factory clear after 8 months of dieback & normal wood shrinkage:

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The wood expands and contracts at a different rate than the plastic of the inserts.

It took 2 coats of clear, with block sanding between, to make this playfield dead flat.

Just like on a car or boat, 2PAC should be 100% waterproof.

Pros use soapy water for wetsanding playfields:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/27#post-1986492

Water got in the holes that only go half way down and caused an issue. All other thru holes are fine. I did use soap as indicated. Damaged areas are 95% under the plastic anyways. If I sand again I could end up removing paint. Going to live with it. Next time I will drill the holes out thru with a 1/16 bit at least.

Hey folks, prepping my PF right now, how far do I go with covering holes before spraying?!

Basically every opening? What about switch lane slots? I’m taping the holes from underneath...... feedback? Thx!

You should be good without covering anything. The SM2K will not stick to the inside of the holes or slots.

Yves

Alright, I’ve looked everywhere for this answer (here, Vid’s guide to playfield restoration, Google searches etc), but can’t find it. What grit sandpaper would you use FIRST on a diamond plate playfield that you want to do some touch ups, fix a hole, and then clearcoat the entire playfield?

400 is good.

Here you can see a Fathom, sanded with 400 (that will give the new clear some "tooth")

Note the darker, shiny spots.

Those are low spots in the playfield that have to be hand-sanded.

It will take 2 coats of clear to level it out to dead flat.

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Omg, I’m missing some reading I’m thinking, should I have pre-sanded my Fish Tales here before I start filling a couple low spots before I clear?

Toss some 400 on a smaller block and it’ll find some of he low points also I bet?