Personally I would not leave those star rolovers in there as much as it sucks to razorblade those rolover inserts those inserts need to drain threw. Having those in there I'm almost certain will create a blob of a mess for you along with messing with the spray pattern.

HEP talked about using a modified rollover like what you did in one of his threads. It's my understanding he pulled them after the clear was shot on each coat.

Don't wait long! No more than an hour? Just to the point where the clear is "dust safe". A couple of times they almost didn't want to come out without taking some of the clear with it. But gently rocking them breaks the seal and they do come right out after that. Definitely don't leave them in for more than a few hours or they might get sealed in (I suppose I would cut them free with an xacto if that happens).

I might just try pulling them right after too. I'm more afraid of dropping them while the clear is still wet.

I cleared a playfield. I wet sanded and I am in the polishing stage.
Any tricks to getting the sanding residue out of all of the holes in the playfield?
I have been using brushes for cleaning copper fittings and compressed air.

Sounds like you are doing it right.

Personally, next playfield, I won't wet sand. Only dry sand to avoid the mess. Chris at HEP does it this way and I think it's wise...

I haven't tried just dry sanding, but seems like it'd save a lot of cleaning. Please let us know how it works. I hope to use some cans of this on the next couple of playfields I do (probably next summer at this rate).

Dry sanding will clog your sand paper MUCH faster.. especially with high grit stuff. It will be almost immediate The reason HEP does it differently is I believe due to the high end sanding tooling he has.

You're still going to get compound/polish in those holes too.. so I don't think you can really avoid trying to clean them.

I saw HEPs comments on dry sanding too, but I have no idea what he is talking about saying dry sanding has improved so much there is no need for wet sanding. Anyone know what he is talking about?

I did dry sanding this last time. I did however use water with a tiny drop of dishwash soap to clean the paper during. So I guess I did a dry/wet sanding. It sure helped the paper last longer but I still went through a bunch of it. Oh well it's cheap and cut way down on the mess.

That is what I figured.

Anyway, my strategy will be:
Clear, dry sand level, clear, dry sand level, clear, buff, polish.

I won't sand after the final clear coat which just look too good on a levelled playfield.

By mess, I also mean tiny scratches that can be left on the clear after sanding. Go 1 grit higher too quickly and only when the playfield is buffed that those scratches show up. Ruining a bunch of work.

Freshly cleared playfield are immaculate. Few dust speckles perhaps but nothing compare to surface scratches which I don't want to deal with anymore.

He's certainly using the right combination of clear, paper and tool.

Also, I don't think all wet sanding is created equal. That is, wet sanding does not have to be that wet and can be simply damp. In this video for instance, the pad is damp, not wet. I suspect it cut down on the amount of slurry that makes it into the holes and has to be cleaned.

That's quite different from comparatively large amount of water I used to sand my playfield with a sanding block. There was no way around it. After literally 10 second the sanding residue had accumulated on the paper into a couple of areas so the sanding was no longer uniform or even effective. The only way to make it work was to clean the sanding paper in water often and also to use lots of paper towels.

I was kind of hesitant when you first posted this about the star rolovers because the white ones don't really fit perfectly snug, so I would think you still have to shave down the clear that makes it's way in there? Because they typically have to bee so loose and free of any clear because of the weak single blade leaf switch springing it up?

I just picked up a 1982 prototype nos factory cleared Fire Power pf from a friend and you wouldn't believe what was in the star rolovers... I do remember seeing these red transparent older style rollovers (I think there Gottlieb) and how snug they fit in there. So it would pay off big time to find a few of these to have in the clear coating arsenal! Great call man!

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Would be great to get the dry sanding the work.

Yea but one thing is in that first hour or so when the clear is hardening you don't want anything over your playfield, if particulate stuff gets sprinkled in to your wet coat forget it man you just entombed it into the coat of clear lol. I would personally wait a few hours until all coats are done and cut them outwith an exacto knife..

It will look better sanded. If you are at 2500 grit... the compounding and buffing steps afterwards remove the sanding marks. High cut compound immediately removes sanding marks.

High end paint finishes all use wet sanding afterwards to get the best finish. Sanding isn't just about leveling

That's a good reason to stay away for sure! I always test the side edge just in case. AND keep my hairsock on as well! I've already had a close call with a stray hair! I think they say 90 minutes or something for "touch dry", but mine seemed really fast. But it has been hot. YMMV

My cutting compound states to remove up to 1200 grit scratches. I'll report back when I'm at it. (CPR Fish Tales and mini)

My top sanding was 2500 when reworking the finish. I use a Meguiars Medium Compound (7 out of 10 on their scale), followed by a 3, followed by the glaze. The 7 worked the finish to a gloss immediately.

Hey there SprayMax fans! I just finished my 2nd project - a 1980 Black Knight. Here's the link if you're interested in checking it out. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/80-black-knight-players-level-restoration

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I see a few people asking about the "semi-matte" SprayMax 2K. Anyone tried it?
I have an EM playfield to clear and thinking this might suit it better than the gloss.

I don't think you'd want to use matte on a playfield

You could also just use the high gloss, but when you are sanding your final coat, just sand up to the highest grit that still gives you a bit of a semi-matt finish. Then you still have the option of going "glossier" if it suits you.

I have just read this thread and I am considering doing a playfield with it. I was wondering if anyone knows whether Novus 2 would affect the spraymax? I have cleaned my playfield with this, would I need to get it off?. I live in the UK and can't find Naphtha anywhere, is there an alternative?

Look for camp fuel.

Colemans fuel?
States it contains Naptha but also with an added rust inhibitor.

Yes Coleman fuel is what I have been using for years. Mostly to wipe down new bare wood playfields for sealing. Used it on some older playfields also before clearing them. The fuel use to not have the rust inhibitor years ago. I have been using the new version for 3 years. I use paper towels, & flip them over to wipe twice clean.

John, how do you seal bare plywood? I am planning a repaint of an EM playfield and was wondering what you use.

I use interior gloss water based Varethane for years. 2 spray coats, 1 per day. 3.78 L can from Home Depot. Others use poly products.
For me Varethane, uv inkjet printing, & out for 2 coats of auto clear for finish. same thing never more than 1 coat per day. Did it the same for 8 years with direct ink printing restorations.

I'm an idiot. I've read many posts in this topic and elsewhere about the importance of MULTIPLE THIN layers of clear over decals.

I had one thin coat and thought I would be okay. I thought wrong.

This is what happens when you get impatient and decide to get out of the boat. Never get out of the boat.

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This has been mentioned several times in this thread, but I think it's important to repeat. Unlike traditional HVLP spray guns, SprayMax does not allow you to apply an even, thin coat.

The best you can do is a thin "orange peel" coat. If your like me that seems wrong.

But I think it's okay. I think multiple coats of this thin "orange peel" will ultimately turn out okay because you will ultimately sand it and apply thicker coats. That seems like others experience.

It feels weird because it looks pretty bad, but I don't see any way around it. I think this is mostly a challenge for clearing over decals, so if you aren't doing decals this isn't as critical (see my previous post!).

Anyone else want to confirm or add to this particular behavior with SprayMax 2k?

I did clear with spraymax over decals with success. The first layer was thin but it overly thin. I let it dry 12h I think before doing the final heavy coat. I feel the decals were sealed and could go heavy.

I don't know if the brand/type of decal matters.

I agree , I usually do 3 or 4 thin coats on an overlay and it looks like crap for the first can of clear. Rough with orange peel and dull. But by the 2nd can I do a good medium coat and then a good thick coat. The last overlay I cleared didn't even have to sand when I was done, it was like glass. That's too bad about yours, I hate coming back to look and seeing that. The rest of the playfield looks so nice. But I learned my lesson the hard way too. lol

I just love this stuff, another killer clear job on a NOS EBD pf. This time I went heavy and used 3 cans!

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I normally do 3 very light coats, more like "mist" and wait 15 min between.
I have newer had any issues and have done many decals, both different types and sizes.

tomds what about lighter fuel? That's readily available still in supermarkets (cigarette counter) or even pound shops.

Where are you buying your Spraymax in the UK?

Lighter fluid is very expensive, compared to a large can of camp fuel.

Round 2. Used a whole can (almost, as others have mentioned, I stop before it's completely out so I don't get a blast of 2k globs) about 7 thin coats. Decal edges started to fade around the fifth coat and were nearly gone by the 6th and are really hard to find with the 8th (I lost track. Might be the 7th or 9th!).

As you can see...lot's of orange peel. My final coat may be tomorrow. Not sure there's any point in waiting?

And to clarify, for those who have had to spray over decals and deal with this orange peel surface, do you sand the orange peel before applying your final medium coats, or spray right onto the orange peel.

Its not totally clear, but it sounds like some folks have sprayed medium coats over the orange peel without sanding to good effect.
True/False?

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I would sand it definitely. Also you said last medium coat. I would go heavy. I full can in 1 coat.

Yea I would sand it and knock it down you always sand between coats. The problem with not sanding between coats aside from not leveling it and transferring those dimples/orange peel to the next coat, is that you wont get that deep crystal clear look. When your pf is generally leveled and you have been leveling it out using 1500 between coats its easy to keep adding layers and doing a quick block sanding between coats with just 2000 grit as you move towards your final top coat.

Thanks! That's my default understanding. but some responses sounded like they didn't, which might be an option. Frankly, I have PTSD with decals and clear now after my first go, so I have some anxiety about putting down a thicker coat. Restoration is for the fearless or foolish!

100% sand. But no too much so you damage decals ☺️

I don't blame you man I'm actually really enjoying watching you recover so nicely on your Sinbad pf from all these problems, but your doing some cool experimentation that's helping us all in the long run dude thanks much!

On that last coat you just layed down it looks like you did a mist coat and sprayed too light, see the mist coat is only good as the initial coat because your going to fill in all that with a heavy coat next while that mist coat is wet and hasn't flashed off completely yet (2-3 min). All coats should be generally heavy after that otherwise like now you are just creating more work for yourself knocking all those little pinholes down. When you spray adjusting your overlap lines and spray speed is the only way to adjust the thickness of the coat, painters often talk about watching the coat and keeping it wet. Basically what your are trying to do is spray out this blob, blended together and float it on the playfield as evenly and flat as you can spray it. If I am spraying a pf and want a heaver coat I will lap my lines and slow down my pace more.

I have to tell you there's is a point when you have too much material on there and you will need to take a few more days between coats to dry out otherwise it seems to wrinkle the previous coat. I think this is because the previous coat is still off gassing and by sealing it on another coat your trapping those gasses from escaping, painting is encapsulation. I think that's what your dealing with now with that massive orange peel there. Otherwise you just sprayed too thin and just needed to spray a thicker coat be cautious.

Thanks! I appreciate the honest assessment! I have decided I'm going to wait a week before doing any more coats. I know that the clear has probably mostly cured after 24 hours, but I don't have to rush. And I have to think the more time that the existing coat has have to 'gas off' and the more time the decals 'stabilize' with the clear coat (if that's a 'thing'!) the less likely the next coat will cause some of those issues that you are referring to.

Good thinking. If I was to redo my playfield, I would have wait 2-3 weeks between each coat. Probably more for the last one. As the clear continues to shrink for weeks, probably months.

When you are building it up say 3rd can you should give it more time to set. I only get about 2-3 heavy coats out of 1 can at my speed spraying and overlapping my lines. I think it is the off gassing of the thinners reacting to the say 3-6 coats you previously sprayed underneath, so if you are on a 2nd or 3rd can you really want those coats to be pretty dried out before you spray. I would say 1 week should do it, 2 weeks would just be a guarantee if you are going for a high build. I use my paint booth and keep it at 75° at all times baking the paint and speeding the process along, sometimes towards the end I leave the exhaust fan on overnight. I still have my paper plate sitting in the dry booth and it's just as flexible and no stretchmarks or signs of shrinkage, this stuff is just so great!!!

Well, the good news is that between each 'coat' (for me, that is usually 2-3 passes - with the first being medium and the final two being a bit thicker) there is a lot of time between the next coat due to the airbrushing. I didn't think about it before, but that is probably a good thing for me.

Base Coat: Aug 27
Touchup/Orange & White Airbrush Sealing Coat: Sep 3rd (1 Week)
Decals and Yellow Airbrush Sealing Coat: Sep 27th (2 1/2 Weeks)
The above had to be sanded back due to the wrecked decals.
Decal Sealing Coat "mist/light" - Oct 7th (1 1/2 weeks)

First, this was a super-helpful post. Thank you!

Second...Eureka! This is it! I'm going to sound stupid, but I always thought it was a terrible idea to spray anything BEFORE the minimum flash-off has happend (10-15 minutes). I think I had read somewhere that you can get clouds or fisheyes or worse if you don't wait for the 'flash off'. So basically I was under the impression that you NEVER do anything before the flash off is done.

ugh. Yeah, knowing this would have saved me a couple of hours of sanding.

I don't want to assume anything more, but so I understand this better Typically when you are laying down coats of clear you generaly want to wait for the previous coat to 'flash off' (e.g. 10-15 min between coats) - the big exception being when clearing over decals. Because it needs to be light so the decals don't 'burn, you don't want to wait more than 2-3 minutes with thicker coats.

The logic being that those first 4 minutes or so that your 'light/mist' coat sits on the decals is enough to 'insulate' (or chemically change/) the decal and your then okay to apply a thicker coat? My only problem with this is that was kind of what I did the first time, but my second coat was very, very thick.

Do I have that right?

Okay, I've sanded down my latest 'mist/orange peel' layer. About two hours. Electric sander and block sander. Still a few 'sparkles' around the decals (on the right by "100 or 1000". I don't want to go too far. Also a few touch ups with black paint which show up well. Normally you would see my light reflecting off this, so its pretty 'toothy' for the most part.

I'm assuming that while these pin pricks aren't great, I can probably clear over them with a thick layer and fill them in. True/False?

Apologies to everyone else who is probably as sick of seeing this playfield as I am!

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Naw, man. The more I see of your Sinbad, the more I want one.