(Topic ID: 148509)
Linked Games
Spider-Man
Stern, 2007-
Spider-Man VE
Stern, 2016
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Edmonton
Quoted from Pinballmike217:There's nothing wrong with hunting for a deal. As a dealer I'm very happy with a $200 profit on the sale of one game, it's often less when I under quote freight. The only way to get a SMVE for $4800 is to buy the entire Stern corporation from Gary and then set your own prices. I'm guessing if your hunting for a Spiderman at $4800 you probably can't complete the corporate takeover necessary to make it happen.
Boom nuff said
/thread
Buffalo, NY
............Joey
Nice! Awesome pic. Your son is lucky to have such a true friend. Happy New Years from Casper and his buds,
Brisbane
Quoted from Krankypants:Don't worry, you don't sound like a dick. You just sound like you are very uneducated when it comes to manufacturing. If you can find a company similar in size, volume and product complexity to Stern, who wholesale their products for anywhere near 5% over the cost of parts and labor then please let me know who they are.
Here you go. None of them have >25% margins and many (including manufacturers of complex auto components) are in th 5% range. Happy to reevaluate based on other hard data that you may have (frankly your the one that made the claim so the hones is on you to provide non anecdotal data to back it up)
additional more pinball specific info on margins: http://pavlovpinball.com/pinball-licencing-101-how-much-why-and-harry-potter/
Quoted from chrisjens2:No because you aren't a committed buyer. You are the ultimate "tire kicker". Unless you forgot about the whole Tron offer ordeal?
Please remind me. I was looking for a Pin. Bought one. Love how when you ask to see photos or any work from the seller you are labeled a tire kicker. Ask the guy I gave 7k to for LOTR LE how many tires I kicked. Jeez.
The guy who was gonna sell me his Tron LE was all over the place. So I passed.
Quoted from Krankypants:Don't worry, you don't sound like a dick. You just sound like you are very uneducated when it comes to manufacturing. If you can find a company similar in size, volume and product complexity to Stern, who wholesale their products for anywhere near 5% over the cost of parts and labor then please let me know who they are.
I don't believe that anyone stated that Stern was working on a thin margin.
Quoted from ovfdfireman:I don't believe that anyone stated that Stern was working on a thin margin.
Exactly.
Probably double digit but not 45%, thats for sure.
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:Here you go.
I see where you are getting confused here. Notice the term "Net Margins". I referred to their mark up after parts and labor (I tried to make that very clear in my original post). Those are two totally different things. The net margins in this chart are even higher than I would have thought for some of the categories.
Distributers known of here on Pinside only make a couple of hundred dollars per game. They can only thin there profits so much till the point they ask them selves if it's even worth it in dealing with the headaches of selling them.
Quoted from Elevatorman:Kaneda just started a "Try to be more positive" thread.....lol
Hey, I guess I wasn't around to see this happen, but why does everyone hate this Kaneda guy?!??
Quoted from Krankypants:I see where you are getting confused here. Notice the term "Net Margins". I referred to their mark up after parts and labor (I tried to make that very clear in my original post). Those are two totally different things. The net margins in this chart are even higher than I would have thought for some of the categories.
Now I am confused.
'Net margins' do include COGS...
Quoted from brettybluevein:Hey, I guess I wasn't around to see this happen, but why does everyone hate this Kaneda guy?!??
Click his page and go to recent forum activity. Go back a year or so and see all his Tron and WOZ posts. You'll see it fairly quickly. He rubs a lot of people wrong with his forum activity.
Quoted from Rarehero:Do you pull this move at restaurants? "My word, this Sandwich is $10.99! That's far too expensive! I have a group of 5 here and we'll pay $3.99 for this sandwich and not a penny more!"
I actually saw this once at a restaurant. The patron actually got his meal for free due to the incident and noise. A few more factors were involved in the quality of the meal as well.
Maybe we should boycott Stern with signs outside the factory?
Then we could get a free pinball machine to go away.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I actually saw this once at a restaurant. The patron actually got his meal for free due to the incident and noise. A few more factors were involved in the quality of the meal as well.
Maybe we should boycott Stern with signs outside the factory?
As a former waitress, you'd be surprised at the number of people who will eat everything on their plate but a few bites of meat, complain that it's either wrong or bad somehow, then demand an entire new plate or everything for free. They'd also get really creative with the complains about noise, room temperature (ask to be seated directly in front of the fireplace then angrily complain that it's too warm,) kids near them, etc to try to get out of paying the bill and/or tipping. Yet in 6 years, I never did have anyone come in and try to bargain shop menu prices or get a group discount on meals... but I honestly wouldn't put it past them.
Quoted from blondetall:As a former waitress, you'd be surprised at the number of people who will eat everything on their plate but a few bites of meat, complain that it's either wrong or bad somehow, then demand an entire new plate or everything for free. They'd also get really creative with the complains about noise, room temperature (ask to be seated directly in front of the fireplace then angrily complain that it's too warm,) kids near them, etc to try to get out of paying the bill and/or tipping. Yet in 6 years, I never did have anyone come in and try to bargain shop menu prices or get a group discount on meals... but I honestly wouldn't put it past them.
People are jerks.
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:Now I am confused.
'Net margins' do include COGS...
Net margins include everything. He's claiming he said only parts and labor and not everything else (selling and administrative costs, depreciation, bad debt, etc.). I don't really know why we would only be talking about parts and labor because obviously all expenses matter here when talking about selling price and true margin.
Quoted from Zampinator:Their cost as a distributor is 30-35% of retail. So that equals a dealer cost of roughly $5300. So there is no way they can go to $4800.
Just a semi-educated guess from a former Honda Motorcycle dealership owner.
Not even close.
I have worked a similar deal in my day job. We resell switches and routers with a 5% margin. I was able to organize a group by of doctors offices and go back to the mfg and get an extra 10% discount over their pricing tier. I do agree its a little bit harder with a sole source like stern. It is just so frustrating seeing these games go up in price ahead of inflation. CPI - Cat Pants Index
Quoted from galaxian:I have worked a similar deal in my day job. We resell switches and routers with a 5% margin. I was able to organize a group by of doctors offices and go back to the mfg and get an extra 10% discount over their pricing tier. I do agree its a little bit harder with a sole source like stern. It is just so frustrating seeing these games go up in price ahead of inflation. CPI - Cat Pants Index
I agree, it is very frustrating to see prices continue to rise. It makes it VERY difficult for dealers such as myself. Hopefully know that you know what thin margins we have you will see your idea isn't workable in this case. All of the dealers on Pinside are wholesalers. Trying to cut us out would only hurt the hobby as we are one of the best sources of information for new pinheads available. I can safely say that we are grossly undercompensated for our time and effort. If dealers applied your thinking to this issue we would all get together and agree not to sell any machines for less than MSRP. I'm sure you don't want that to happen so your best strategy moving forward is probably to help keep a reputable Stern dealer going by supporting them.
Quoted from Pinballmike217:together and agree not to sell any machines for less than MSRP.
Engaging in price fixing would not be good for anyone. Including Pin dealers. Plus, its incredibly hard to do. You'd need EVERY SINGLE stern dealer to agree to not sell below a certain price point.
Highly unlikely and, in certain situations, illegal.
I should add that I absolutely dont think wholesalers here are a part of the price hike problem. I've had very good luck buying NIB from folks here. The insanity is squarely on us...If we're willing to pay $6500+ for a reskinned pin thats 10 years old and 'not scarce'...Well...There you go.
I'd like to point out that this is fairly similar to "Design Contests." Much like the one with the pizza chain recently. You've got a group trying to undercut the people who actually make a living doing what they do. And those who do this for a living are not happy about it. While the other don't care, and still want stuff as cheap as possible.
Sorry, just stirring the pot. 
Just kinda funny how I've seen some peoples thoughts on one side of one topic, and another side on something that kinda similar.
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:Engaging in price fixing would not be good for anyone. Including Pin dealers. Plus, its incredibly hard to do. You'd need EVERY SINGLE stern dealer to agree to not sell below a certain price point.
Highly unlikely and, in certain situations, illegal.
I should add that I absolutely dont think wholesalers here are a part of the price hike problem. I've had very good luck buying NIB from folks here. The insanity is squarely on us...If we're willing to pay $6500+ for a reskinned pin thats 10 years old and 'not scarce'...Well...There you go.
Exactly. Us lowly wholesalers have no control over how Stern prices their product. C,mon, I'm just trying to feed my cat here!
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:$6500+ for a reskinned pin thats 10 years old and 'not scarce'.
Worth repeating. I love pithy comments.
Quoted from galaxian:have worked a similar deal in my day job. We resell switches and routers with a 5% margin. I was able to organize a group by of doctors offices and go back to the mfg and get an extra 10% discount over their pricing tier.
I don't think that this has any relevance here .
Quoted from Mr68:Worth repeating. I love pithy comments.
pith off
Quoted from Pinballmike217:I agree, it is very frustrating to see prices continue to rise. It makes it VERY difficult for dealers such as myself. Hopefully know that you know what thin margins we have you will see your idea isn't workable in this case. All of the dealers on Pinside are wholesalers. Trying to cut us out would only hurt the hobby as we are one of the best sources of information for new pinheads available. I can safely say that we are grossly undercompensated for our time and effort. If dealers applied your thinking to this issue we would all get together and agree not to sell any machines for less than MSRP. I'm sure you don't want that to happen so your best strategy moving forward is probably to help keep a reputable Stern dealer going by supporting them.
^^^ This.. and I imagine Stern doesn't want to shoot their distribution network in the foot....
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