(Topic ID: 232497)

Slap Save Podcast: Ep. 31 "Why I Am Canceling Wonka!" feat. guest host Zach Meny


By SDTMinSTL

6 months ago



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    There are 336 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 7.
    #301 4 days ago
    Quoted from ZMeny:

    My apologies for attempting to provide pinball content and entertainment. Thought people would enjoy a hearty debate. I suppose I may have been wrong. My work is clearly not welcomed by some. I am passionate and want to give my part for pinball. Hanging up my hat in podcasts, doing a podcast, creating exclusive content, making YouTube videos, giving tutorials, providing info for new hobbyists, you name it, maybe it would be best for me to leave it to the other media our there. Never thought I’d be asked by my peers to not publicly enjoy pinball anymore.

    Please don't go all MisterMoberg on us....the point I and others are making is it's a slippery slope being a distributor and a game reviewer. No one is telling you to "not publicly enjoy pinball anymore."

    -1
    #302 4 days ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    Please don't go all MisterMoberg on us....the point I and others are making is it's a slippery slope being a distributor and a game reviewer. No one is telling you to "not publicly enjoy pinball anymore."

    It sounds like your trying to get him to stop participating in parts of the hobby he enjoys.If he reveiws pins that’s fine,nobody twisting anyone’s to buy this or that!

    #303 4 days ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    It sounds like your trying to get him to stop participating in parts of the hobby he enjoys.If he reveiws pins that’s fine,nobody twisting anyone’s to buy this or that!

    Not it all. Being a distributor though he shouldn't be surprised if some people are a bit skeptical about a rave review on a game he'll profit on.

    I'm a fan of Zach and SDTM. Great podcast. (Slap Save too.) Just giving an opinion...not "trying to get him to stop."

    #304 4 days ago

    Relax, drama queen. Enjoy the hobby however you want. I just don't get my restaurant reviews from the maître d.

    #305 4 days ago

    I find it so funny that people are upset over this. It was nothing more then a conversation of two friends. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably doesn't have any friends.

    #306 4 days ago
    Quoted from ZMeny:

    My apologies for attempting to provide pinball content and entertainment. Thought people would enjoy a hearty debate. I suppose I may have been wrong. My work is clearly not welcomed by some. I am passionate and want to give my part for pinball. Hanging up my hat in podcasts, doing a podcast, creating exclusive content, making YouTube videos, giving tutorials, providing info for new hobbyists, you name it, maybe it would be best for me to leave it to the other media our there. Never thought I’d be asked by my peers to not publicly enjoy pinball anymore.

    No need to get all defensive Zach

    Everybody knows you are a good dude.

    And a good pitch man for Jack

    I find it hard to believe that anybody buys pins based on what anyone else thinks. It F ing baffles me

    I listen to what Jason and Zach had to say for entertainment and info but not opinion. Just like anyone else throwing out an opinion. It ain’t worth much

    Like my own opinion. I have a CE on order will keep it because of theme but I have to say I worry about what I see on the streams and the “butter flow”. I’ve owned SM already

    Anyhow, some of you guys should take the “serious meter” down a notch or two

    Butthurt because Jack lied to Jeff? LOL

    Jack is a pleaser. Tells people what they want to hear. Sometimes when the truth sounds better! If you haven’t figured it out by now then I don’t know what to tell ya

    That doesn’t mean Jack isn’t a great guy and passionate. He is

    All of you guys are. Try not to take yourselves so F ing seriously. As we always say, it’s just pinball!

    #307 4 days ago

    All i know is Zach seems like a genuinely good dude whereas Yancy, well..better left unsaid.

    #308 4 days ago
    Quoted from TwoHeartedMale:

    I find it so funny that people are upset over this. It was nothing more then a conversation of two friends. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably doesn't have any friends.

    They are using it to push other agendas. Or to justify their own decisions. The unfortunate part is that the two parties actually involved would seem to have no problem. This is just typical outrage nonsense and is exactly why Pinside gets such a bad name.

    #309 4 days ago
    Quoted from SheriffBarclay:

    All i know is Zach seems like a genuinely good dude whereas Yancy, well..better left unsaid.

    Agreed, Zach seems like a great guy and I'm kind of an a-hole. But you shouldn’t expect an unbiased review from either of us.

    Two of my friends and I used to post unvarnished reviews of Stern games at test locations back in the stone ages, aka the early aughts. We didn't hold back; good, bad or ugly. One time Stern took us out to lunch and tried to bribe us with pinballsales.com shirts (oh, the irony) to not review any more games, because they thought we were hurting their sales. Fast forward a decade and game reviews are a cottage industry.

    Anyway, I no longer post my honest thoughts about games because at this point I'm friends with too many people in the industry. Not at all a brag, it just happens when you live in Chicagoland and have been in the hobby for 20 years. They're just regular dudes whose feelings I'd rather not hurt. Sure, maybe in private I'm a critic, but rarely online anymore. My public opinion is now biased & worthless, so why bother?

    #310 4 days ago

    At one point the buffalo pinball guys said they don't review jjp games because jack is a sponsor of their show. I thought it was odd. Guess now I see why.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion of games. Even distributors. The only thing that would be dishonest is if they were actively trying to hide the fact that they are a distributor (which clearly doesn't apply here).

    By the way, I am fairly new to posting on forums etc. Noticed that some people get really heated over pinball topics. If I ever come across as mad, upset or offended about pinball stuff, please know that I am being sarcastic/messing around. I haven't experienced anything in the hobby that has pissed me off. Unless someone rips me off on a pin related deal or decides to personally attack my family I don't see anyone actually pissing me off.

    So I apologize in advance if I shit on something you like, or hurt anyones feelings. Chances are I'm just trying to be funny and failing miserably.

    As my wife says "My son has Autism. My husband doesn't. He is just an asshole"

    #311 4 days ago

    I really enjoyed the episode. Great as always- I love that you can have an opinion and just tell us how you feel. Not everyone will agree on every new pin that comes out. That’s the beauty of this hobby- lots of choices. I guess that’s where zmeny comes in- dude you basically sell from every company so it does make it a little difficult to criticize too much-i still love you

    #312 4 days ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Why is it that every expert
    on here says Wonka cost $10 to 13 grand,when they know you can pick up an SE for $7500

    Because an LE cost $9,500 plus shipping and a CE cost $12,500 with shipping. Not everyone buys the base model.

    #313 4 days ago
    Quoted from TheGunnett:

    Because an LE cost $9,500 plus shipping and a CE cost $12,500 with shipping. Not everyone buys the base model.

    Yes I am aware of pricing structure,my point is they use the higher price as a point of criticism
    Instead of saying look what you get or don’t get for $7500

    #314 4 days ago

    Here’s another thing to consider: that price cut on Wonka SEs to $7500 didn’t come at the expense of JJP’s margins, it was instead passed on to the distributors. It is far more profitable for a distributor to push any other pin (especially the wider margin on Sterns, which is why so many distributors can offer free shipping) than Willy Wonka SEs. If a particular distributor was corrupt, I would expect him to be blowing BK:SOR and poo-pooing Wonka.

    Are conspiracy theories just more comfortable for the world views of some people?

    #315 4 days ago

    I just thought I would share my feelings...because podcast. I am not intentionally pissing in anyone's cheerios here. It is just MY thoughts. The issue is when someone comes along and insists that anyone who doesn't share their opinion is fundamentally flawed at best, or an asshole at worst. This is not something I have ever subscribed to.

    I would hope that, if one of the staff of JJP would hear what I said, they would see the context of this. I own 3/5 JJP's and love em. If they are the type where I am hated because I shared my opinion, so be it. That's unfortunate, but... it is what it is. I could mindlessly advocate buying every game without speaking my true feelings, but then, I would be considered biased.

    Lastly, of course Zach is somewhat biased. The difference is HIS bias is based on a pretty legit reason. Not everyone can say that. I have seen people attack and defend brands with such passion it is based only on some perceived loyalty or hatred that is unearned, and sometimes not deserved. Zach even pointed out he was there to provide a counter point. He never uttered the word "review". I don't like that word. I will share my thoughts, but a review has finality that doesn't apply here. A "number grade" type thing is silly. It's just one clowns opinion. It SHOULD be taken with a grain of salt, or less.

    #316 4 days ago
    Quoted from SDTMinSTL:

    I appreciate the feedback and that is a terrific idea. While a podcatcher app will resume, for those folks who would prefer to use YouTube, it will be uploaded there starting with the next episode. Thank you for the suggestion. -Jason

    I second this!

    I’m just across the river from Fenton if you ever want to get together for some pinball!

    #317 4 days ago
    Quoted from ZMeny:

    My apologies for attempting to provide pinball content and entertainment.

    True, hearing you act like Wonka Art Package is awesome (and a slam dunk) was pretty entertaining.

    Quoted from ZMeny:

    Hanging up my hat in podcasts, doing a podcast, creating exclusive content, making YouTube videos, giving tutorials, providing info for new hobbyists, you name it, maybe it would be best for me to leave it to the other media our there.

    Sometimes we forget you do that all stuff...but then we wait 10 minutes and you remind us....again.

    Quoted from ZMeny:

    My work is clearly not welcomed by some.

    Let's just wrap this up with this without any more zingers....Take a chill pill. You gotta understand some people just grab on to the lowest hanging fruit. Some people hear your thoughts and feel they are blind devotion for a product your selling and just trying to make a buck blah blah blah; idiots I say!
    People that know you, truly know your passion for pinball, have known your ideas have been completely fucking insane and nonsensical from the beginning; It has nothing to do with monies

    #318 4 days ago
    Quoted from SDTMinSTL:

    I would hope that, if one of the staff of JJP would hear what I said, they would see the context of this. I own 3/5 JJP's and love em. If they are the type where I am hated because I shared my opinion, so be it. That's unfortunate, but... it is what it is.

    In theory it shouldn't be a problem, in my mind at least. You know how many articles I've written about pinball that did not receive criticism? Zero. Some blunt, some polite, some every which-way. I didn't agree with all of it, but there's no point in getting upset (on occasion easier said than done, but most of the time it's easy enough to shrug off). If I know the person, and agree with their judgment, I tend to listen more closely, but I don't expect people to pretend they like something I do just because they're my friend.

    I'd like to think most people in the industry know they won't please everyone with every offering, and some of their creations could be downright hated. Passions versus reality and all that.

    Actually, I think podcasting is where you see some of the thinnest skin; I believe it's due to an almost system shock. You put your product out there, and a lot of podcasters don't come from careers where that's an issue. As such, a lot of people aren't used to it when the negative criticism comes (and it WILL come). I think it's part of the reason so many shows don't last very long (mostly I think that's driven by the workload, and why I think those without schedules struggle the most).

    #319 3 days ago

    Everyone keeps saying the game shoots like butter why can' you just say the shots are easy

    #320 3 days ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    Remember when everyone cancelled Pirates because the game wasn't going the direction they wanted? (I was one of these).
    Remember when it came out and people discovered it was actually fun AF, and that JJP did great work after all?
    Remember when the production run was too short and people then couldn't get them?
    I encourage people to put some time on Wonka before making your decision.
    I'm gruntled with mine and will be getting the CE.

    All games are going to be short runs in the future if Jack put out two games a year.JJP does not have the facility to put out two games plus run a game from the prior year

    -1
    #321 3 days ago

    Using the fact that Zach is a distributor as a reason to entirely dismiss his opinions is simplistic and weak-minded thinking IMO. As always, things are much more complex than that. Yes, take into consideration that he has a vested interest in selling the game, but use that as a weight not as a hatchet. It's not like he's some out-of-the-blue dude giving an opinion, he is well known and has long demonstrated on SDTM that he has solid views and opinions worth listening to.

    And then to further disregard everyone else for "buying a pin based on what other people say" is really rich... Given that these are people hell bent on seemingly influencing people's like or dislike of said game. If you were really confident in how you felt about the game, you wouldn't argue about it. But the reality is that just as there are people who try to justify a purchase, there are also people who justify not purchasing or not being able to afford a game. And the latter are never honest about that fact, but it comes out pretty clear in the way in which they seem to be posting to convince *themselves* that what they are saying is valid.

    Looking forward to Wonka.

    obbama.gif
    -2
    #322 3 days ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Everyone keeps saying the game shoots like butter why can' you just say the shots are easy

    Go away!

    #323 3 days ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Everyone keeps saying the game shoots like butter why can' you just say the shots are easy

    Not all of them are easy, some are tricky and tight. The game has a very rewarding feel when flowing ramp to ramp to combo, that's why people say it shoots like butter.

    I don't think you'll find anyone complain about the way the game shoots! Which frankly is more important to me than audio in the video clips

    #324 3 days ago

    I have no issues with a distributor willing to give their thoughts on a game as long as that includes the negatives too....all or nothing. No game is perfect. Give me the whole story, not just the parts that won't upset the manufacturers. If it starts sounding like a sales pitch, that really turns me off.

    -1
    #325 3 days ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Why is it that every expert
    on here says Wonka cost $10 to 13 grand,when they know you can pick up an SE for $7500

    Because after shipping thats what an LE or CE Costs. Which most of JJP buyers are buying LE AND CE's. But nice try on sounding like a smartass.

    #326 3 days ago
    Quoted from ZMeny:

    My apologies for attempting to provide pinball content and entertainment. Thought people would enjoy a hearty debate. I suppose I may have been wrong. My work is clearly not welcomed by some. I am passionate and want to give my part for pinball. Hanging up my hat in podcasts, doing a podcast, creating exclusive content, making YouTube videos, giving tutorials, providing info for new hobbyists, you name it, maybe it would be best for me to leave it to the other media our there. Never thought I’d be asked by my peers to not publicly enjoy pinball anymore.

    I should have added to my post. #StrongTake. You know i love you man. Content you create is the best in biz imo. And im of the boat, even though you are a distro now, i still very much value your opinion. Doesnt mean your opinion on WW is right though

    #327 3 days ago
    Quoted from bgwilly31:

    Because after shipping thats what an LE or CE Costs. Which most of JJP buyers are buying LE AND CE's. But nice try on sounding like a smartass.

    Ok Buddy here’s what’s really happening,most people are digging the much cheaper SE this time.So when people are criticizing bang for the buck try comparing what your getting with the SE

    #328 3 days ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Ok Buddy here’s what’s really happening,most people are digging the much cheaper SE this time.So when people are criticizing bang for the buck try comparing what your getting with the SE

    Holy shit. Common sense has eluded you apparently. Its pretty simple. The MAJORITY of JJP buyers buy the LE & CE. Hence the Majority of potential buyers voicing concerns have no interest in the SE's. So me saying 10k or 13k is more of an reality and my post made perfectly fine sense.

    PS: not your buddy

    #329 3 days ago
    Quoted from ZMeny:

    My apologies for attempting to provide pinball content and entertainment. Thought people would enjoy a hearty debate. I suppose I may have been wrong. My work is clearly not welcomed by some. I am passionate and want to give my part for pinball. Hanging up my hat in podcasts, doing a podcast, creating exclusive content, making YouTube videos, giving tutorials, providing info for new hobbyists, you name it, maybe it would be best for me to leave it to the other media our there. Never thought I’d be asked by my peers to not publicly enjoy pinball anymore.

    I appreciate all you do Zach. Keep it up.

    #330 3 days ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I appreciate all you do Zach. Keep it up.

    Same here. I have the feeling that there's a huge silent majority that feels this way.

    #331 3 days ago
    Quoted from bgwilly31:

    Holy shit. Common sense has eluded you apparently. Its pretty simple. The MAJORITY of JJP buyers buy the LE & CE. Hence the Majority of potential buyers voicing concerns have no interest in the SE's. So me saying 10k or 13k is more of an reality and my post made perfectly fine sense.
    PS: not your buddy

    Oh hell I thought we were buddies!

    #332 3 days ago
    Quoted from bgwilly31:

    Holy shit. Common sense has eluded you apparently. Its pretty simple. The MAJORITY of JJP buyers buy the LE & CE. Hence the Majority of potential buyers voicing concerns have no interest in the SE's. So me saying 10k or 13k is more of an reality and my post made perfectly fine sense.
    PS: not your buddy

    I'm not really sure that is true any more - with the SE being a very nicely appointed machine at a lower price, and almost as feature rich as the LE, I do think we'll see a lot more SE buyers than usual for JJP products.

    #333 3 days ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    I'm not really sure that is true any more - with the SE being a very nicely appointed machine at a lower price, and almost as feature rich as the LE, I do think we'll see a lot more SE buyers than usual for JJP products.

    i'm an LE buyer (have hobbit LE and POTC LE, had DI LE and Woz RR). I went with the SE because I felt the price gap was too large and at 7500, the standard is a hell of a lot of game. I will likely add a shaker and I had a piece of invisiglass already.

    #334 3 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    i'm an LE buyer (have hobbit LE and POTC LE, had DI LE and Woz RR). I went with the SE because I felt the price gap was too large and at 7500, the standard is a hell of a lot of game. I will likely add a shaker and I had a piece of invisiglass already.

    I have to admit, I went with SE so I could get my Oompa Loompa NOWWWWW daddy!

    Waiting on CE upgrade.

    #335 3 days ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    I'm not really sure that is true any more - with the SE being a very nicely appointed machine at a lower price, and almost as feature rich as the LE, I do think we'll see a lot more SE buyers than usual for JJP products.

    Completely agree. If I were getting one, SE hands down. Usually JJP SEs don't make sense but with their less is more approach, SE is the one to get.

    #336 3 days ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    I'm not really sure that is true any more - with the SE being a very nicely appointed machine at a lower price, and almost as feature rich as the LE, I do think we'll see a lot more SE buyers than usual for JJP products.

    I think they definitely will sell more SE's of Wonka then they did with any of their other previous pins. But i dont think SE's will outnumber LE's & CE's. At least JJP is probably hoping not as well.

    But its also possible JJP has changed their business model starting with wonka to be more like stern. Stripping down their machines. But keeping JJP price points on their LE and CE. Cause i dont think that will work. Which is a part of the reason why theres so much criticism of wonka right now. JJP's typical LE and CE buyers. aka the majority of their customer base. Is struggling to see 10k or 13k worth a pin on this one. Especially after hearing that sound package

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