All together now. why can't we be friends, ....

comming from the man with the most experiance in talking out of his arse!
says alot.

p.s I have brought jjp before, and cheaper

Isn't that the point of the forum to discuss opinions? I like to hear the other side of folks that think this game is killing it on all levels. It's interesting to hear...

You are Talking about 2013 and the WOZ was $6500US Plus shipping and GST, as you asked my freight Forwarder at the time.

now the game is $9500US and the dollar is less than $.70c

As I said in an email to you I will give you a game for free if you can buy one and land it inc GST for less than we sell them for.

So put up or shut up.

1 Australian Dollar in US Dollars is 0.93372 for 9/30/2013

so $6500 was only $6971
now $6500 is $9420 plus shipping and GST on the total

You know a thread is getting good when the talk turns to currency exchange rates.

My original reply to the post was.

Nothing to put up or shut up about
I think both JJP and Stern over priced, maybe more so here in Australia where the dollar is so shit, Agree.
JJPLE $15,490
SternLE $13,750

It's nearly 2k difference from Sterns even (ok $260)
this is what keeps me from buying another JJP

Anyway back to JJP WW
Great looking game, Lot's of cools flowing shots that I can see from the streams that I have watched
Will get 1 one day when one comes up for sale on the Second hand market.
Unless Stern releases JAWS

Remember when everyone cancelled Pirates because the game wasn't going the direction they wanted? (I was one of these).
Remember when it came out and people discovered it was actually fun AF, and that JJP did great work after all?
Remember when the production run was too short and people then couldn't get them?

I encourage people to put some time on Wonka before making your decision.
I'm gruntled with mine and will be getting the CE.

Derek I'm a supporter and think your streams are well done but I just don't see how you can compare the POTC situation to this.

Pirates did have some fundamental mech changes that caused issues but once people played it, something was clear.... the game was still awesome.

There were concerns about Wonka before launch and now that the game has been released and many people, like myself and Jason have played it....those concerns are still there - so much that I'm passing on the game.

I understand you're happy with yours (even the side art! Haha) but there are many that are not. This is not potc round 2. This is JJP making a game for bar play, including some of the most annoying music and sounds ever in a pin, no effort in side art, theme integration that is a mashup mess and well the list goes on.

We're in FULL agreement that you need to play this game first before making a decision. No question there. As a huge Wonka fan I still can't believe I'm passing on it too. Kind of sucks - just a huge disappoinment for me from jjp. I really hope GnR takes a different approach.

All they needed to do was take the Wonka layout (aka the hardest part to design) and apply the same WoZ approach (integration, quality music/sound, amazing art) and you have perfection IMO. They just blew it as it stands now.

I just think the game takes a little time to get its hooks in you. For me it was overcoming the challenges of the layout, and learning+understanding the rules (which made the callouts and theme integration "click" for me.)

Don't judge hastily without putting time in on one, is all I'm saying.

It sounds like you have, and it's not for you, which is totally cool.

Great Podcast Guys!

I really appreciate the format, and the production is high end. I am always pumped to play pinball after listening to slap save.

thanks for the hard work and inspiration. Very Impressed !

Wonka is killing it at all levels. Im shocked at how well this game plays. smoothest pinball ever IMO. truly pat's best. the sound and video can be updated, but really, i am looking at the PF all the time anyway. the PF art is wonderful and follows the color scheme of the magical light show RGBs. really, this game is flawless, but for the narrator; i think they couldve done alot better there.

really, i couldnt care less if there was a ton of clips with audio, but everyone has their opinion. this game is a gem, plain and simple. if you are super into having perfect art and PERFECT sound package, then this is not your pinball machine. if you are into having a game which plays flawlessly with interesting shots and tons of flippers and magnes, then this is the game for you!!!

just my humble opinion. put this game in your garage, turn the lights off, and step into the Factory!!!

It certainly shoots well (like butta!) and if you're someone that doesn't need anything more than that, I would agree this is a great game to get.

I think it's a valid comparison.

Aside from the nerfed mechs, Pirates had complaints about the lack of official soundtrack and lack of video assets with actors.

Ask any pirates owner how they feel about the David Thiel soundtrack (it's superb) or the lack of video assets (the game excels so strongly you forget about them.)

That's all I'm saying - it's easy to do a "hot take" based on rumors, shows, early reviews or streams. But the reality of these machines is that they are built with passion by people who care as much as you do.

If you give the games half a chance and set aside whatever the current pinside-rage-du-jour is, you might find they are pretty damn good. You might also find that the things you thought you were concerned with are non-issues in real world play.

Jason, don’t give into the dark side! Your original reasons are sound. Much better value games are coming!! You’ll regret it if you do!!

David Thiel is the best in the business so I don't think it was a surprise that the soundtrack for POTC would deliver....although I think it's the weakest of the main three (Hobbit, Alien and POTC). I think you're speaking of concerns that they didn't have the main theme which was something people got over pretty quickly for good reason.

Contrast this to Wonka which, I believe the sound guy is experienced in casino machines...people were concerned about the sound, music, effects and guess what....the game came out and I can 100% confirm the sound and effects, including the repeating music is absolutely terrible. So bad is an understatement. Now I understand you don't mind it but you also think the side art on the standard cabinet is great so I'm not entirely surprised you're able to stomach it!

My point is the Wonka blinders that many are wearing to accept this game for what it is are constantly telling folks once you play it, all will be forgotten. Well I'm here to say, along with many, the same issues that concerned us then are still here after playing it and for me, even worse. It's a crime b/c it does shoot very well....I always said it did but comparing this game to POTC, imo, is not correct as that's not what happened. People who played that game, for the majority, loved it and that's why it's so respected in the community. Yes it doesn't have all the assets but I evaluate the TOTAL package (shoots well, incredible mechs, code, etc). Wonka, imo, is a dream to shoot and a complete let down elsewhere. That combination = pass for me.

To be clear, I don’t think it’s great...it’s just a little better in person than I expected for being just the logo over a faint swirl/sparkle background.
The decals are pretty high quality and have a very glossy near-Radcal look.

Thought I'd chime in here with my view having had the game about 2 weeks now. I'll preface this with a few caveats. First, there are very few games I don't like, but WOZ (and Dr who) is one of them..woz is beautiful, but I can't get into the game play. Second, cabinet art is very low on my list when evaluating a game, I'm just not into art packages that are barely seen anyway since games are sandwiched between each other.

For Wonka, the sound does not bother me one bit. I too thought it might, but in a home environment, I barely notice it and there is alot of variation in the music and I like how the intensity changes. The callouts are also good for directing shots.

The playfield reminds me of woz in terms of lighting, which is a good thing as woz lighting is about as good as it gets.

The game shoots like dialed in or TZ, also good, and as would be expected for any Pat Lawlor game.The shots are very smooth, there is no clunk and the flow is great.

So, based on these two characteristics, we've got a cross between woz and di.

As for rules and gameplay, there is a lot going on. Still learning the rules, but you can see it's typical jjp depth and variability. It's a fun pin to shoot and has me pushing start over and over, few games do that for me.

Animations on the screen and the amount of detail in terms of game status on the screen are great. The wonkavision basically just shows which side to hit and reveals the awards.

Theme integration is pretty good, but nowhere near as good as the Hobbit. It draws you in, but it's not as immersive as the Hobbit. I'd suggest this is where jjp should focus more for future code, along with better integration of the clips, if possible.

Overall, I think the game is very well done and I am not disappointed with it at all. Sound does not grate on me and artwork doesn't affect me at all (I'd note the quality of the side decals is very good, almost looks like rad cals).

Do not judge the pin based on play at a show. Find one set up in a home and then evaluate. Flipper strength also is not an issue.

SheriffBarclay is coming over to play it today around 1CST, which we will be streaming (NSPinball on Twitch.) It will be interesting to get his read on the game, I will try not to lead the witness.

Keep up the mission JW

What is the "mission?" Avoiding pinball?

On his crusade to stop anybody from buying a Wonka pinball machine

Well like any other machine there's plenty on both sides. I wish they'd all just shut the fuck up and let us decide for ourselves; I don't need a goddamn pep talk.
Some people may though I guess.

EDIT: Just to be clear I mean posters all over every thread, not the podcast folks talking aboot whatever subject they choose

Great episode where @sdtminstl and Mr @zmeny took a stand on the latest and hottest pinball topic.
All info needed to buy or not a wonka at the moment is there, and that is great
If I have to choose between Zach or Jason I would say: none as that is not the point, they presented great info and arguments on Wonka and were kind to share in public and take the internet heat.

I’m looking forward to next week’s episode, where they both argue the other side that they did this week and see who wins THAT argument.

Ahh real life...so many advantages!

ding ding!

I heard Law sports Pokémon PJs and Smurfs underwear.

Pokemon wouldn't be the worst PJs, they are colorful characters. Shit I love Smurfs! But I stopped wearing underwear a couple years after they went off the air.

EDIT: Those last 2 things are not in any way related other than a time frame.

Big thanks to zaphX for hosting me and letting me play Wonka. I have had a deposit on CE since release and wanted to play the machine, and we hacked at it for nearly 3 hours.

It shoots like a dream. Ramps are butter. Hitting the upper loop with upper right flipper is very satisfying. I'm an average player and put up some decent games (but nothing great).

The lights are fantastic, particularly the light shows in certain modes.

The little magnets definitely influenced the ball. The left outlane is brutal.

Regarding the callouts and music, it all felt very put together when you stand over the machine and play. I did not get a slot machine vibe at all. Music was not annoying. The volume was turned down lower, but I barely heard the "oompa loompq" sounds in the pops. You really have to be listening, volume of those could properly be boosted some.

Also, I barely noticed the lack of sync with the video clips. You're not watching the screen often. Maybe you would be as you got better?

Amount of UI information on the monitor is very detailed.

The game rocks and was a blast to play. I did feel a little bit like I was progressing through the chocolate factory/immersed, if not linearly like the movie.

Bottom line, if the CE playfield has sweet alternate art on playfield, keeping the CE. If it's just glitter and a different color, switching to LE.

I can't even.

Haha so true; not a universality loved light application.
For half it's obnoxiously colorful and puking shit at you non stop, for the other half it's painfully dark and impossible to see.
I guess it's not half & half...one of those charts with 2 circles merging with overlap.

I've only played JJP's WOZ and DI, but the light shows in both of those games make me giggle like a child. The only other game that does that for me so far is Stern Star Wars during lightsaber duels. RGB GI is the tits!

DI light show never gets old to me.

It’s the best

Zach compared WW to GotG theme integration. Its not like GotG. Gotg has sound with the clips. Voice actors or not theres sound and all the scenes that were funny from the movie are integrated into pinball and the feel of that mode pretty well.

Also dear lord, Watch the IE pinball stream or the jack Danger stream. The sound package on this game honestly has got to be one of the worst ive seen on any modern game. You must be deaf if you think this sounds good. Im sorry but its that bad. Watch the streams. The sounds are all over the place. its like 6 different sound packages are playing at once.

Just putting voices to scenes is no where near enough to fix this sound package and theme integration.

And omg the Boat scene with the song from wonka. In the game Wonkatania Mania. Its awful. Thats arguably the most iconic scene in the movie and what do we get? A scroll of text on the mini screen. With a very LOW Volume wonka singing the song out of tune and out of sync. While being over powered by all of the other Slot machine type noises happening during the mode you can barely even hear the song at all. No clips of them on the boat with the crazy tunnel and lights.

Zach is wayyyyy off. And you know i love ya Zach. But damn this sound is bad.

Game is beautiful, everyone ive talked to says the game is fun to shoot. And i believe them. But Bottom line for $10 grand or $13 Grand. The game needs to be hitting on all cylinders. Not just shoot well. And right now Wonka is a run down chevy big block spitting and sputtering on 2 out of its 8 cylinders but the seller is still asking full retail price.

Look out...he'll give you the cruise routine from the end of the podcast.

Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach...you're glib. You don't even know what theme integration is

It's not even that he's off, his opinion is biased & irrelevant as a distributor. May as well hang it up as a podcaster who reviews games. Some of you guys who've been around forever might recall the old "Jack played it, he likes it!" line back when Jersey Jack was a Stern distributor. Of course he loved every game; he was selling them. Or ask Gary Stern what his favorite game is... whichever one is on the line.

Why is it that every expert
on here says Wonka cost $10 to 13 grand,when they know you can pick up an SE for $7500

Because it's more dramatic. It's a losing cause battling it...I tried forever when they said DI was 9.5 - 11K .

I hear you,thought I would try.

Yeah annoying for sure.

Some of them might be claiming prices from other countries.

LTG : )

My apologies for attempting to provide pinball content and entertainment. Thought people would enjoy a hearty debate. I suppose I may have been wrong. My work is clearly not welcomed by some. I am passionate and want to give my part for pinball. Hanging up my hat in podcasts, doing a podcast, creating exclusive content, making YouTube videos, giving tutorials, providing info for new hobbyists, you name it, maybe it would be best for me to leave it to the other media our there. Never thought I’d be asked by my peers to not publicly enjoy pinball anymore.