I call foul!

The Capt Morgan would be more fitting on the POTC.

That would be correct, I've said that myself and next time I go under the hood that mod will be fixed.

Do you keep those there so that every time you have to take the glass off to free a stuck ball you take a shot? Because that's what I would do.

In fact, I should put a full-sized bottle of Captain Morgan in my friend's Black Rose for every time we have to fix the center broadside shot or level the cannon. Send the paramedics...

Tried ep 30 of podcast today.
I have to call out your Whoa Nelly take in pinball as it came off as a bit hypocritical if you are planning to bring in an ACDC “Luci” vault?.

good show and I’ll give it a listen again.

good point

How did you look past action figures on your pins? It’s terrible when it’s FACTORY let alone as a mod.

Well except LOTR, those little Armies of Middle Earth figurines work pretty well.

Here's a good article in Skill Shot (a Seattle-Based pinball "zine"), by Kayla Greet, about the overuse of sexualized images/artwork of women in pinball.

http://www.skill-shot.com/content/tnacdc,6275

During Gary Stern's interview on Head 2 Head, he talked about retheming WNBJM but referred to it as "Pabst Blue Ribbon." I'm guessing he's not a fan either. He once said that his least favorite Stern pin is Playboy, but that was pre Whoa Nelly.

Personally, I like WNBJM but as we all know, pinball is subjective.

Okay, guess I should clarify... I dislike when off the shelf “jointed” action figures are plunked into a pin as a “mod”... but I also dislike it when they’re factory... like Batman Dark Knight, TMNT, etc... it just reeks of laziness.

Hot wheels in pins also annoys me (DemoMan, BDK again, Sopranos...)

I’m pretty sure the Deadpool and Iron Maiden figurines are ones are custom made just for the pins tho, right?

Some of us were playing and ran out of liquor, So I put the 1st bottle in Aerosmith as a joke. After that someone would bring over another bottle to put in Met, TWD, ect ect. Only pin that doesn't have a bottle is Mustang. I won't let anyone Drink and Drive.

shame.gif

Interested to hear why you canceled. I bought a standard and can’t stop playing it.

Go to the 25 minute mark in podcast. Better yet start at the beginning.

After I heard why he cancelled I cancelled my subscription to the podcast. FYI, Pirates has clips without sound. Look how that turned out. I agree with Zach. Great code means great rules. Handling of assets is polish.

Good conversation! I agree with both parties on certain aspects. The integration of video clips doesn’t live up to the standards that JJP has set. As a consumer you expect evolution not backsliding. Toy Story will be put under the same scrutiny or worse. I kept my preorder because it’s still better than anything else other manufacturers are releasing but it is a letdown nonetheless. I seems so close is the other heartbreaking part.

I think JJP will be around longer than your Podcast and opinion

What was it about his reasoning that offended you so much?

I'm not offended. I felt like he lost credibility as a reviewer by his comments. Judge the game, not the manufacturer when it comes to a game review. If I judged by manufacturer, I would never own a Stern and would not consider whatever Deeproot brings forward. Plus, ALL manufacturers give misleading info whether on purpose or accidentally. Finally, after his 20 minute reasoning why he wasn't buying Wonka, he continued to interrupt Zach when he tried to make his points. Anyhow, bottom line is we all choose what we listen to for various reasons. For me, there are better things to listen to than this podcast.

I'm eating lunch and listening to this now and I don't think he cancelled JUST bc of the twip drama. The other reasons he mentioned match exactly why I dropped out of this game too after playing it. Others have a similar position as well.

I love the Wonka theme but if anyone thinks the art on the standard is not bland they need to get their head checked. Talk about a complete effortless attempt. Uninspired.

Sounds in the game remind you of the chocolate factory and completely dismissing the narrator debacle? People are not picking - these things are critical for some including me and the game is so annoying that in a home use environment would drive me crazy

Jason nails it why WoZ is so good. Not bc of how it shoots but bc of the integration of music sounds etc - they nailed it. I actually just realized the same recently and bought a WoZ ecle. Sorry but Wonka needs to do more than shoot well. I agree WoZ doesn't shoot as well but crushed it as a total package where Wonka crashes and burns outside of shooting.

Someone cancelling their podcast subscription over this is nuts! We're all not going to agree but it's hard to not justify that these are good points being discussed which is why a podcast is great. You don't need to agree to enjoy a podcast.

Zach loves the Wonka theme so much.... It doesn't matter. He thinks animations and integration is better than WoZ? Omg haha. Wow. Yes it might have Wonka characters and colors but it's such a mashed up mess right now that doesn't make you feel like you're there in the world like WoZ does.

I agree Wonka can be updated for the better. Hopefully that happens

Nothing wrong about his decision to cancel WW.
We all have our own opinions when it comes to pinball and costing.
I have wanted another jjp game myself, but not paying what they are asking for them in Australia.

I think the big takeaway is that for the amount of money it takes to get a Wonka into his house, one man now feels that the game isn't worth it due to the combined impact of all the reasons stated.

All of us have that point, where games (as good as they are) are not worth the expense for what you get. For example, I really enjoy playing Addams Family and I think it's a great game. But, to me and my bank account, it isn't worth the price.

These new games are terribly expensive, if a game doesn't check off all the boxes for me then I won't buy it. At the prices companies are asking us to pay I feel we have a right to put each game under a microscope. I owned a WOZ for awhile, I fully agree it's a better full package then WW, it's a little clunky to shoot but it delivers everywhere else.

I like hearing different perspectives on pins; I thought Jason and Zach had a nice, robust discussion about their thoughts on gameplay versus integration, what the JJP standard is (and was, and if that's different now), and where its place is in comparison to the competitors out there. There were parts I agreed with Jason, parts with Zach, and a lot I felt differently on (to varying degrees) than both of them. I felt Jason's JJP concerns, as a manufacturer, were clearly demarcated separate from the game itself (but still, for him, a fundamental consideration when making a purchase).

Anyway, I think this was a good discussion. Complicated and nuanced, as in my opinion a multi-thousand dollar purchase decision deserves. I enjoyed the episode quite a bit.

Hello Jason,

I really enjoy your podcast and appreciate your efforts to entertain and inform us.

I am somewhat disturbed at Zach’s obvious slap down on your reasons for not buying WW. It was uncalled for, as you have legitimate reasons for not purchasing and I happen to agree with you.

Zach is first and foremost a salesman and cannot really offer much of an unbiased opinion. But I was very unimpressed with how he treated you during your debate on WW. His points were points made by a sales bully! You always sounded respectful to him, calling him by his first name. He always referred to you by your last, which is a sign of disrespect (Zach will probably say that indicates we are close friends, which is rubbish in a public forum - no one with class does that).

He just made excuse after excuse to your point of a poorly executed offering from JJP. Your points about its lack of IP and other things were spot on. Zach only poo poo’d everything you said. He used sales bullying techniques quite well to beat you back into your corner. His points about WW touring the chocolate factory are not accurate, as the clips mostly have zero audio and the narrator is just plain annoying, with slot machine music galore. No authentic actual music in the machine and WW is a musical after all! None of the mechs have any correlation to the factory, which was your point and the table feels stripped down, compared to the bar JJP has set on its other offerings. Zach just just did more slap down to your points here, calling you a complainer. This is exactly how politicians label and slap down their opponents. Maybe Zach is better suited to politics?

Stand up to Zach on your points. They are valid and well thought out. Don’t let Zach treat you this way. He delivered his rebuttal in a somewhat condescending manner and as one that sells JJP offerings, that I get. Zach has chosen in the past to step down from giving reviews because of the conflict of interest and is a wise choice. He no longer is creditable in that arena, if he ever was. He has tippy toed down the wire in the past, giving almost all table offerings an A or B, which is not much in the way of a reliable review after all, him not wanting to offend any manufacturer. As a listener, we cannot rely on much of Zach reviews in regard to critique.

Please keep up the fun with your broadcast and keep them “Slap Save” instead of Zach’s guest appearance episode of “Slap Down”.

Yours truly,
Jim
PS - Those that say your podcast won’t be around as long as JJP, is just more put down, best to be ignored. When people don’t have a legitimate rebuttal, they attempt putting others down as a last resort.

Fucking A, must have been Capt Morgan unboxing for Zach before this one...dude is on the ropes at the end of it.

You made well thought out and rational points any high end new pinball consumer would consider.
Sounds like you made a good decision at this time.

This was a great episode. VERY different opinions and you guys went at respectfully. Enjoyed every second of it. Well done.

I’m also kind of obsessed with the 1 sec game. Haha

I also enjoyed this episode. I like both guys but I also question how impartial Zach can be now that he's a distributor.

People lining up to get offended on someone else's behalf, then getting irritated that they aren't offended enough.

That's Pinside!

haha - well it keeps things interesting I guess!

for the record, although I can't disagree with Zach more on Wonka (would have loved to swap places with you Jason to answer some of those ridiculous comments he made) - I don't think Zach is overly positive on Wonka b/c he's a distributor. I don't think that has anything to do with it. I do think that the theme for Zach is so big - something he's wanted for SO long that he's got the wonka theme blinders on.....

I also think he's great for the industry and is attempting to only make things better. He's a smart guy and he's figured out a way to make money too which is perfectly fine. Passionate about something and make money - isn't that the ideal package?

Great episode! Nice debate. Hey, these are VERY expensive toys. To each is own. If the toy doesn’t check all the boxes, it ain’t making it into the man cave. I’m still waiting to be wowed before I lay down my credit card for a NIB machine. Call me picky, call me critical, but I’m not dropping thousands of dollars on a game that doesn’t give me the wow factor in every aspect. Non-pinball people’s heads would spin if they knew how much some of these machines cost. Especially recently. Sometimes over $10k! Holy shit!! It better be great. That’s all I’m saying.

Lastly, I love the “name that pin” segment! More wagers please!!! And prizes. Lol.

West, West, West, sit down, breath, I have apparently stirred up something in you, for which I apologize, while also patting myself on the back. I sell pinball machines, I host a podcast and YouTube show,.....I have promised to provide entertainment to this industry. Today you heard me providing an alternate view, aimed to match the strength of arguments coming from one of my best friends. Debate and passion is entertaining, it is pinball, and it is what fueled your comment above. I simply provided you with something you wanted, when you didn’t recognize it at the time.

I’m in this pro Zach camp too. Turning your passion into your livelihood is something to admire.

Guys, I want you to remember these words a wise man said to me once... well more than once... but I think it’s relevant here:

“Hey, it’s only pinball!”

they are cheaper in Australia than in the USA, do the math

Zachery, I appreciate the comments, with my gun back in the holster and now breathing more slowly again. Yes, I did feel the need to come to the defense of a guy (Artimus) I like hearing on a podcast, because you were good enough to seem to overwhelm him with non-facts, lol. So fair enough, it is pinball passion that got us here. Class act to come and explain. You got me going for sure, as any good politician can do, haha. So all is well. Keep up the fun! Your buddy explained it well too, so maybe it wasn’t as much of a slap down as I originally thought? Looks like a Slap Save after all...

This is what I originally pictured as I listened to you two on the broadcast...

49193B9E-1B2C-4384-9A49-955AB925C1A0 (resized).jpeg

But now Jason is more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Incorrect,
No one pays factory recomended prices.

Show me anyone who doesn't

Not much margin on JJP games, nobody is selling under list price, you are talking out of your arse as usual.

The fact you haven't bought one in yourself is proof enough you can't buy one new anywhere and ship it in for less than they already sell here.

It's just a fucking pinball game. Some of you guys go way too deep on this. If you have some personal issues to work out, go work them out somewhere else besides a pinball forum lol.

I can't wait to play the game, and I have no concerns about the video integration because that can all be handled via updates. What can't be handled via updates is the layout and overall flow of the game.

If you don't like it, you don't have to justify it to anyone. And if you do, you don't have to justify it to anyone. I don't know why people that allegedly don't like things seem to constantly hang out in threads about said things and cause controversy. If you truly don't like something, you don't spend time trying to convince people that the way you feel is valid and vice-versa. Have some damn self-confidence for christ's sake!