(Topic ID: 257107)

The Simpsons Data East 1990 Service Button Error

By icanswim70

4 years ago


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  • 20 posts
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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by slochar
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#1 4 years ago

Hey everyone!

So... For the past 2 weeks or so, I've been trying to figure out why the game has started thinking the service buttons on inside of coin door are always being pressed.

I have traced the wires through the ENTIRE cabinet and didn't find any broken or loose wires.
I have disconnected Service button both on the coin door side AND going into the board (Connector CN-14)

Neither of those solved the problem, so the issue must be with the board, that would make sense wouldn't it?

So I took out the board, inspected EVERYTHING I could find, checked for any burn spots, battery acid stains, and any loose pieces, EVERYTHING LOOKS GREAT!

I am at a loss as what else could cause it shorting so I need help from you experts please!!!

Here are the links to the error, and back of main board:

And here's the front of the board

Thanks in Advance!

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#2 4 years ago

Definitely a board problem since it doesn't go away when you unplug the switch connectors. When were the batteries last changed? I only ask because the batteries can sometimes leak and cause trouble with the board. You may want to consider nvram or a remote battery pack at some point.

I don't necessarily think that has anything to do with your problem though. Had you done any work on the game recently before the problem occurred? Any problems with the game before this happened?

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Definitely a board problem since it doesn't go away when you unplug the switch connectors. When were the batteries last changed? I only ask because the batteries can sometimes leak and cause trouble with the board. You may want to consider nvram or a remote battery pack at some point.
I don't necessarily think that has anything to do with your problem though. Had you done any work on the game recently before the problem occurred? Any problems with the game before this happened?

Thanks for your response. I changed the batteries when I brought the machine home in early November. The game has no other issues, never did. Previous owner maintained it very well and so do I. This is the ONLY issue.

#4 4 years ago

Think you should see the game to me!

#5 4 years ago

Gotta admit, I'm not too familiar with this particular problem. I studied the schematics and did some googling etc and here's what I came up with so far: you'll want to use a multi-meter set to measure resistance and check all 3 of the 4.7k resistors at R5, R8, R83 and the 470 ohm resistors at R6, R7, and R82. They're labeled on the board. If they all check good, I would suspect possibly a bad 7402 chip at position 1F on the CPU board. I'm including a few pics to illustrate what I'm talking about. This one shows the schematic for the connector CN-14, and the resistors I'm suggesting to test: diagswitchcircuit (resized).JPGdiagswitchcircuit (resized).JPG

This shows the location of the 7402 chip on the CPU (labeled LS02):
connectorandchip (resized).JPGconnectorandchip (resized).JPG
Hopefully someone with more knowledge of these games can chime in and help get you sorted out, but I'll try to help out in the meantime.

#6 4 years ago

Well, to eliminate a software issue, turn off the game, pull the RAM chip from the main board (the IC under the 2 labeled EPROMs) and then reinstall it. Turn on the game. See if that clears it up.

If not, then it is a board problem.

Check the ICs for switch row and switch column with a logic probe, otherwise send board out for repair.

#7 4 years ago

I decided it’s best to send it out for repair as board looked fine from what I can see. Feel like I’ll create more problems than it’s worth if I rip the board apart.

#8 4 years ago

Now, to refurbish the cabinet or not, that’s the big question...

1 year later
#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Mrjamma:

Well, to eliminate a software issue, turn off the game, pull the RAM chip from the main board (the IC under the 2 labeled EPROMs) and then reinstall it. Turn on the game. See if that clears it up.
If not, then it is a board problem.
Check the ICs for switch row and switch column with a logic probe, otherwise send board out for repair.

I have come across this problem again, and want to try your suggestion, as when I asked my board guy he informed me he never found an issue with the board. I suspect reseating the RAM chip cleared the memory and fixed the issue. Which chip are you referring to?

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#10 2 years ago

your batteries have been removed and a non volatile RAM put in place of the original.

your new RAM is at board position D5, under the new game ROM marked in pen SIMPSONS.

Also your original 2 game ROMS have been replaced with one.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

your batteries have been removed and a non volatile RAM put in place of the original.
your new RAM is at board position D5, under the new game ROM marked in pen SIMPSONS.
Also your original 2 game ROMS have been replaced with one.

Yes, I had the batteries upgraded to prevent battery leaks and eliminate the need for batteries all together.

As mentioned in the above, i had the boards serviced and upgraded as getting parts in Canada is a colossal PITA. He let me know boards were fine besides the upgrades. He must have reseated the ram during the upgrade which unbeknownst to him fixed this dumbass problem. There are multiple kinds of RAM which is why Im asking which one to remove, as mentioned by Mrjamma above. So the one to reseat is the one labelled Simpsons in my picture?

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#12 2 years ago
Quoted from icanswim70:

I have come across this problem again

A better video would help! Focus the camera on the display and don't move it. Keep the video rolling for 20 seconds.

After taking the video, do a factory reset and see if the issue reoccurs.

#13 2 years ago

On another note, since you posted a partial picture of the power supply, there is more work needing to be done. CN1 and CN8 both look to have a burnt pin. So wiring needs to be repinned and the male headers connectors replaced. Also, the electrical splicing nut pointing to with the red arrow is not original to the game, so likely, more other things needing to be fixed properly.

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#14 2 years ago
Quoted from icanswim70:

Yes, I had the batteries upgraded to prevent battery leaks and eliminate the need for batteries all together.
As mentioned in the above, i had the boards serviced and upgraded as getting parts in Canada is a colossal PITA. He let me know boards were fine besides the upgrades. He must have reseated the ram during the upgrade which unbeknownst to him fixed this dumbass problem. There are multiple kinds of RAM which is why Im asking which one to remove, as mentioned by Mrjamma above. So the one to reseat is the one labelled Simpsons in my picture? [quoted image]

Your original RAM was replaced in the upgrade, look at the pics you posted, the repairer didn't reseat the RAM IC he replaced it altogether with one that doesn't require batteries to maintain game/book keeping settings.

No, your RAM is the one underneath the ROM labeled SIMPSONS, labeled NVRAM on the left hand side of the little circuit board in white ink.
There aren't multiple types of RAM on your cpu board, just the one, a 6264 CMOS original RAM at position 4-5 D which has been replaced as part of the upgrade to eliminate the need for batteries on the cpu board, a surface mount device (SMD) on a small circuit board.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

A better video would help! Focus the camera on the display and don't move it. Keep the video rolling for 20 seconds.
After taking the video, do a factory reset and see if the issue reoccurs.

See video attached. Question, how do you factory reset a game that can’t use the service buttons?

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

On another note, since you posted a partial picture of the power supply, there is more work needing to be done. CN1 and CN8 both look to have a burnt pin. So wiring needs to be repinned and the male headers connectors replaced. Also, the electrical splicing nut pointing to with the red arrow is not original to the game, so likely, more other things needing to be fixed properly.
[quoted image]

You have a good eye. The GI connector (CN8) was rigged like that from its routed days, with the burnt header pins reworked to back of board, with that helmet as the jumper. It’s on the list to fix. I inspected CN1 and the pin appeared to have been replaced, the housing is the only burnt part. Good catch!

Quoted from Rikoshay:

Your original RAM was replaced in the upgrade, look at the pics you posted, the repairer didn't reseat the RAM IC he replaced it altogether with one that doesn't require batteries to maintain game/book keeping settings.
No, your RAM is the one underneath the ROM labeled SIMPSONS, labeled NVRAM on the left hand side of the little circuit board in white ink.
There aren't multiple types of RAM on your cpu board, just the one, a 6264 CMOS original RAM at position 4-5 D which has been replaced as part of the upgrade to eliminate the need for batteries on the cpu board, a surface mount device (SMD) on a small circuit board.

Sorry for my ignorance, but there’s only 1 Ram chip? I’m only asking out of curiosity as everything I’ve researched and been taught said otherwise. Isn’t there an SRAM chip, The NVRAM chip replaces the battery for retaining high scores, and a regular RAM chip for regular function while power is on? (I assumed it’s the same as any computer, tablet or smartphone where the stored information gets purged at power off. There is usually a small piece of the memory that is cached, but causes problems when it becomes corrupt)

#16 2 years ago

nah, maybe it's me, i'm sorry i'm not helping here.

in post #11 where you put a blue square on the picture, you circled the ROM.

your new RAM is the IC underneath, notice in white print to the left of the RAM it shows NVRAM?
this is the IC to remove that will clear settings.
i'm not 100% familiar with NVRAM but my understanding is if you want to clear the RAM then put the IC on the ground plane so all RAM pins are grounded.

but the problem will be if/when you want to change any factory settings as the door switches are seen as closed.

have you confirmed the all switches (memory protect and service) in question work? like with using a multi meter check that the switch is actually open when it should be and closed when pressed?

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from icanswim70:

See video attached. Question, how do you factory reset a game that can’t use the service buttons?

At one point during all those audits scrolling through, it shows to press the start button. So press the start button. I ran into this before. Some reason the NVRAM must have a blank or corrupt spot and the software doesn't know how to handle it.

Even if the start button does clear it out, go into the adjustment menu to do the factory reset.

#18 2 years ago

Thanks for all the info guys! This one was a head scratcher. I tried the start button as mentioned, about 100 times. On the 101st attempt, the machine made the familiar settings saved sound, rebooted itself and all my twinkly lights came back on. I don’t know why button mashing worked, but in true 90s fashion it revived the game. Factory Reset, here I come!

#19 2 years ago

Probably only at a certain time did it actually accept smashing the start button. Keep us posted it if it happens again after a factory reset. So far, I hadn't had it return on the 3 or so games I had worked on when this had happened.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

i'm not 100% familiar with NVRAM but my understanding is if you want to clear the RAM then put the IC on the ground plane so all RAM pins are grounded.

No.

The only way to clear it is to put it in something that can read/write to it (some eprom programmers can do this) and write either $00 or $FF to it.

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