Owned both. Shadow lasted a lot longer and would definitely buy another one. Whitewater's tinny annoying sound bothered the heck out of me, but otherwise, it was a lot of fun.

White water is more accessible for people new to pinball and so much fun. You can hit shots and feel like you are progressing and doing well. Shadow is more for pinheads.

Agreed. Shadow takes this easily.

I've owned them both... TS is loooong gone. WH20 is bolted to the floor. Has been for about 20 years!

If you bolted Shadow to the floor, it would likely be difficult to get rid of too.

It depends on what you like. I've owned both and I would give the edge to WH20. Complete opposites in gameplay really. A casual pinball fan won't like The Shadow nor appreciate what it brings to the table.

Wh20

Love my Shadow. I’ve had it for over 8 years and it’s still a blast to play. Whitewater is a super fun pin too, and is definitely funnier with a better theme.

Layout wise Shadow is the winner. More shots, faster, more brutal. Whitewater is more flowy, but the shots are way more repetitive.

Arts and looks are both good not great.

Shadow has slightly better rules, but Whitwater has soom pretty cool side features too.

Can’t go wrong with either

One has something mandatory in pinball......pop bumpers!!!

That's it - WH20 is the winner....

These are two of my top 5 all time games. They have similarities of greatness. They both have the awesome jackpot setup to the upper flipper. TS has the scarf, WH20 has the vacation planner. TS has one of the best sound packages in pinball. WH20 has the all time great Vacation Jackpot. Choosing one is tough, but I would go TS in a close win.

Simple.

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Little rough on Cirqus Voltaire, weren't ya?

Play a lot of both and while I really love WH2O right now it’s all Shadow.

Channeling o-din:

The best from both in this future pin?

White Shadow (resized).jpg

Is that the show where they used to sing awesome in the showers?

Not sure, but I've owned The Shadow long enough that I'd swap it out for a White Water or Creature. If someone wants to make a swap let me know. Those are the games (plus Congo) I had head to head when I was looking in that price range. I bought the first one that turned up in my area, which was The Shadow. I also bought the second, which was Congo.

lmk if you want a hobbit ; )

I wouldn't bother with creature. Fixed one for a friend and played it for a week before he took it. One week was enough. The game is so shallow, it couldn't support a newt. Top five theme and music, but if you can play, you'll master it quickly.

The Shadow

So, I really do still love The Shadow, but I also have this itch to mix up my collection. Are there any machines in say a $500 range that I won't regret trading for my The Shadow?

All depends on what you like but Shadow is damn cool, and there's nothing really like it...

Yeah, I totally get that. I thought it was bolted to the floor, but I like all my machines and only have room for six. I think what I like about it are some of what makes it unique: controlled ramp diverted, battlefield (best non-pinball use of a pinball), cool locking shot, good combos, both short and long shots, etc. It's all around great pinball.

Get a TZ. Whenever I think I'm starting to be done with mine, I play it and I'm instantly reminded why many, including myself, consider it the greatest pinball machine ever made. The Powerball feature just puts it over the top. Tip: you MUST nerf xballs. Make them harder to get and remove ball carry over. TZ and TS will always be bolted.

I think I'd need to add a zero to my budget.

Glad you asked this. I’m also in the same boat. Got a good deal on shadow, it’s a fantastic game, but it doesn’t scratch the itch like I thought it would. I’d prefer a trade for another B/W game, and a TZ would be absolutely my ideal trade in a heartbeat, but it’s a little over budget.

First world problems...

The problem with that is you've got people rating things on there as 10s and 1s to prove a point. And secondly, you've got ghost busters close to both titles. I mean, that right there should prove this benchmark is flawed.

TS and TZ are pretty close in price up here. All games are expensive up here!

Owned both, sold both. I did just pick up another shadow. I really missed it , even though no one else played it. I’m looking forward to putting some time on it and putting in leds, new plastics, colordmd and the Aurich art package

Another interesting perspective is the market for these two games. Whitewater has become hugely in demand. It has gone up in value quite a bit

Yeah, but that's because of the theme, topper and general nostalgia for the game. It's not that difficult, and the rules are easy. I never played TS much in the arcade because it would kick my ass so badly. WH2O, on the other hand, handed out replays. Very few people know TS well because you have to have access to many plays to really "get" it. It's a great bargain for pinheads.

The 6 river classes is probably the easiest item to achieve since there are two ways to get it.

Either by hitting the left targets or (more easily) by repeatedly rolling over the lit insert which is controlled by the flippers. Just keep shooting to the upper pf and let it feed to the lit insert.

Once you've got level 6, drain all you want with no concern of losing your progress.

I've owned both TS and Wh2o for over 7 years. Vacation Jackpot has always been easier to reach than Final Battle. I've gotten Vacation Jackpot way more often.

Wh2o is just much easier to control the ball to feed the flippers for controlled shooting.

I am talking about gameplay, not game completion. TS slays newbs. I have team tournaments that include newbs all the time. Most get to play shadow less than a minute on their first few games. If I had WH20 (I would never buy it though), newbs would have a blast because they can play for while, and ride a crazy side ramp on their first or second game.

1. With the home roms it is

2. Hmm...that's probably case by case. Some Wh20s can be frantic with the lost mine kick out & some are very easy to control.
TS is actually pretty forgiving with the ball coming down the middle...which is probably the most dangerous place.

Close call..I don;t feel like either one is super hard to get to wizard.

I totally disagree with this. If you set the game up right, Creature is not easy at all.
TIP - just make sure you set it up to play tough - it's one of the best 90's B/W games.

I guess I must be playing copies of TS that are more difficult. I've played three different games in past few years, and all were difficult. Mine is jacked up and incredibly hard. Outlane drains are common, and I don't find the middle much of a safe bet. Bounce returns from the battleground drop can be SDTM as can the center drop. Left ramp is often instand death if you miss. Shadow loops are very difficult to nail, and completing the battlefield is pretty damn tough. Mode shot is super tough, as is the Khan MB/mode shot. I just don't see much of this in WH20. The game isn't a walk in the park, but it's no Shadow.

I had my buddies cranked up as with all my games. The game is four shots... Kiss shot is rediculously easy. Very easy to light extra ball. Right shot is very easy too. Center shot is the easiest, so spelling PAID isn't that tough. The only tough part of the game is the group of snack bar targets. MB is interesting the first few times, but I found it to be easy as well. Thank god the music and theme are so awesome. I think that's the only reason this game gets so much love. It's the opposite of Roller Coaster Tycoon.

I've never had a game that I was completely done with in a week until I had a Creature. Played it at a tournament and destroyed, simply because I knew the rules better than others. If you want to repeat the same four things over and over, go for it.

Yes you are right. I do have the wh2o home rom. I didn't know it changed the river class 6 rules.

I'll say the biggest cheat with the home rom is the ball save.

Starting modes in Shadow is much harder than in Wh2o. And getting a Super Jackpot in shadow is a very rare event for me and extremely rewarding.

Both are good games but I prefer the greater challenge of TS.

The mode start and khan are probably harder than any needed shot in wh20, if you even count the boulder garden.

As for tranquiize, if we are talking straight tournament /league shadow is pretty simple with shadow loops... But I guess they're hard on yours, yours must be special

Same. Hell, I feel lucky when I get even one or two regular jackpots with shadow multiball, let alone getting a double or a triple. I think I've only ever got a super a handful of times, and getting a super during Khan? Fuggedaboutit!

They're easy to hit, but hard to repeat, unlike IMDN loops.

I just put some games on a great shadow my buddy has. Up to this point I have played about 3 games on one, and hi clue what I was dojng. My friend explained it and I must say what a blast. Very faced paced, and super challenging. VERY DIFFERENT than WH20. I'm still in the WH20 camp but man shadow is a blast!

I think that Shadow loop is one of the toughest loops in pinball. Owned two and both difficult although the one I have now is easier ... Still hard though!

Yeah most players in tournaments don't play the shadow loop strategy, as is being alluded to here. It's too hard unless you are a top 50 player. Fake news!

I play mine a lot and the most consecutive Shadow loops I have is 3. My girlfriend once got 4 and she doesn’t play much so I guess I’m just that bad.

Right but you don't have to hit them consecutively.

WH2O if you want to entertain friends, TS if you want to improve your skill. TS will punish you for every ill conceived shot. Frustrating at first but eventually you get better at shot selection. Also, with the translite from Aurich, TS is a very nice looking machine.