The Shadow vs White Water

(Topic ID: 217833)

The Shadow vs White Water


By Blitzburgh99

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 156 posts
  • 75 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 14 days ago by Tranquilize
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“The Shadow or White Water”

  • The Shadow 142 votes
    45%
  • White Water 164 votes
    52%
  • Another similar option? Please list 7 votes
    2%

(313 votes)

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White Shadow (resized).jpg
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There are 156 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 65 days ago

Owned both. Shadow lasted a lot longer and would definitely buy another one. Whitewater's tinny annoying sound bothered the heck out of me, but otherwise, it was a lot of fun.

#102 65 days ago

White water is more accessible for people new to pinball and so much fun. You can hit shots and feel like you are progressing and doing well. Shadow is more for pinheads.

#103 65 days ago
Quoted from DeathHimself:

TS all day any day IMHO......

Agreed. Shadow takes this easily.

#104 65 days ago

I've owned them both... TS is loooong gone. WH20 is bolted to the floor. Has been for about 20 years!

#105 65 days ago
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:

I've owned them both... TS is loooong gone. WH20 is bolted to the floor. Has been for about 20 years!

If you bolted Shadow to the floor, it would likely be difficult to get rid of too.

#106 65 days ago

It depends on what you like. I've owned both and I would give the edge to WH20. Complete opposites in gameplay really. A casual pinball fan won't like The Shadow nor appreciate what it brings to the table.

#108 65 days ago

Love my Shadow. I’ve had it for over 8 years and it’s still a blast to play. Whitewater is a super fun pin too, and is definitely funnier with a better theme.

Layout wise Shadow is the winner. More shots, faster, more brutal. Whitewater is more flowy, but the shots are way more repetitive.

Arts and looks are both good not great.

Shadow has slightly better rules, but Whitwater has soom pretty cool side features too.

Can’t go wrong with either

#109 64 days ago

One has something mandatory in pinball......pop bumpers!!!

That's it - WH20 is the winner....

#110 64 days ago

These are two of my top 5 all time games. They have similarities of greatness. They both have the awesome jackpot setup to the upper flipper. TS has the scarf, WH20 has the vacation planner. TS has one of the best sound packages in pinball. WH20 has the all time great Vacation Jackpot. Choosing one is tough, but I would go TS in a close win.

-6
#111 64 days ago

Simple.

A3EFE4A1-87DD-4F7F-AA41-12B5D76C2726 (resized).jpeg
#112 64 days ago
Quoted from Dantesmark:

Simple.
[quoted image]

Little rough on Cirqus Voltaire, weren't ya?

#114 64 days ago

Play a lot of both and while I really love WH2O right now it’s all Shadow.

#115 64 days ago

Channeling o-din:

The best from both in this future pin?

White Shadow (resized).jpg

#116 64 days ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Channeling o-din:
The best from both in this future pin?
[quoted image]

Is that the show where they used to sing awesome in the showers?

#117 64 days ago

Not sure, but I've owned The Shadow long enough that I'd swap it out for a White Water or Creature. If someone wants to make a swap let me know. Those are the games (plus Congo) I had head to head when I was looking in that price range. I bought the first one that turned up in my area, which was The Shadow. I also bought the second, which was Congo.

#118 64 days ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

Not sure, but I've owned The Shadow long enough that I'd swap it out for a White Water or Creature. If someone wants to make a swap let me know. Those are the games (plus Congo) I had head to head when I was looking in that price range. I bought the first one that turned up in my area, which was The Shadow. I also bought the second, which was Congo.

lmk if you want a hobbit ; )

#119 63 days ago
Quoted from Dantesmark:

Simple.
[quoted image]

#120 63 days ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

Not sure, but I've owned The Shadow long enough that I'd swap it out for a White Water or Creature. If someone wants to make a swap let me know. Those are the games (plus Congo) I had head to head when I was looking in that price range. I bought the first one that turned up in my area, which was The Shadow. I also bought the second, which was Congo.

I wouldn't bother with creature. Fixed one for a friend and played it for a week before he took it. One week was enough. The game is so shallow, it couldn't support a newt. Top five theme and music, but if you can play, you'll master it quickly.

3 weeks later
#122 36 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I wouldn't bother with creature. Fixed one for a friend and played it for a week before he took it. One week was enough. The game is so shallow, it couldn't support a newt. Top five theme and music, but if you can play, you'll master it quickly.

So, I really do still love The Shadow, but I also have this itch to mix up my collection. Are there any machines in say a $500 range that I won't regret trading for my The Shadow?

#123 36 days ago

All depends on what you like but Shadow is damn cool, and there's nothing really like it...

#124 36 days ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

All depends on what you like but Shadow is damn cool, and there's nothing really like it...

Yeah, I totally get that. I thought it was bolted to the floor, but I like all my machines and only have room for six. I think what I like about it are some of what makes it unique: controlled ramp diverted, battlefield (best non-pinball use of a pinball), cool locking shot, good combos, both short and long shots, etc. It's all around great pinball.

#125 36 days ago

WH20 lasted a couple weeks. TS was one of the longest lasting games I owned.

#126 36 days ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

So, I really do still love The Shadow, but I also have this itch to mix up my collection. Are there any machines in say a $500 range that I won't regret trading for my The Shadow?

Get a TZ. Whenever I think I'm starting to be done with mine, I play it and I'm instantly reminded why many, including myself, consider it the greatest pinball machine ever made. The Powerball feature just puts it over the top. Tip: you MUST nerf xballs. Make them harder to get and remove ball carry over. TZ and TS will always be bolted.

#127 36 days ago

I think I'd need to add a zero to my budget.

#128 36 days ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

but I also have this itch to mix up my collection. Are there any machines in say a $500 range that I won't regret trading for my The Shadow?

Glad you asked this. I’m also in the same boat. Got a good deal on shadow, it’s a fantastic game, but it doesn’t scratch the itch like I thought it would. I’d prefer a trade for another B/W game, and a TZ would be absolutely my ideal trade in a heartbeat, but it’s a little over budget.

First world problems...

#129 36 days ago
Quoted from Dantesmark:

Simple.
[quoted image]

The problem with that is you've got people rating things on there as 10s and 1s to prove a point. And secondly, you've got ghost busters close to both titles. I mean, that right there should prove this benchmark is flawed.

#130 36 days ago

TS and TZ are pretty close in price up here. All games are expensive up here!

#131 36 days ago

Owned both, sold both. I did just pick up another shadow. I really missed it , even though no one else played it. I’m looking forward to putting some time on it and putting in leds, new plastics, colordmd and the Aurich art package

#132 35 days ago

Another interesting perspective is the market for these two games. Whitewater has become hugely in demand. It has gone up in value quite a bit

#133 34 days ago
Quoted from Soulrider911:

Another interesting perspective is the market for these two games. Whitewater has become hugely in demand. It has gone up in value quite a bit

Yeah, but that's because of the theme, topper and general nostalgia for the game. It's not that difficult, and the rules are easy. I never played TS much in the arcade because it would kick my ass so badly. WH2O, on the other hand, handed out replays. Very few people know TS well because you have to have access to many plays to really "get" it. It's a great bargain for pinheads.

#134 34 days ago

WH2O not difficult? Which aspect? Getting to Wizard Mode or going for a quick, high score?

Vacation Jackpot is very difficult to reach and obtain. There is a bit of luck aspect to getting it. Keeping the River Class 6, while getting everything else, is really tough. Everything has to align just right.

If you are looking to score high quickly in a head-to-head playing situation, getting 5x Playfield and then getting WhiteWater multiballs going as fast as possible, plus getting double or triple jackpot on it...boy, that’s pretty tough while keeping 2 or 3 balls going.

TS has more “work” involved in getting to Final Battle. If you do everything on the Scarf, you get there. Done deal. It’s not like one of the scarfs resets if you drain, as does the River Class on WH2O. Now... defeating Final Battle...that’s very hard. Maybe there is a little luck aspect once you get there, too.

Writers note:
Owned TS for a year and a half, no longer own (financial reason at the time). Reached Final Battle twice, never defeated. Closest was two shots away.
Own WH2O now for 6 months. Got VJ after 4 months. I feel like it was a complete game of a lifetime fluke, because I haven’t got anywhere close to completing the Vacation Planner since.

#135 34 days ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

It’s not like one of the scarfs resets if you drain, as does the River Class on WH2O.

The 6 river classes is probably the easiest item to achieve since there are two ways to get it.

Either by hitting the left targets or (more easily) by repeatedly rolling over the lit insert which is controlled by the flippers. Just keep shooting to the upper pf and let it feed to the lit insert.

Once you've got level 6, drain all you want with no concern of losing your progress.

I've owned both TS and Wh2o for over 7 years. Vacation Jackpot has always been easier to reach than Final Battle. I've gotten Vacation Jackpot way more often.

Wh2o is just much easier to control the ball to feed the flippers for controlled shooting.

#136 34 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Very few people know TS well because you have to have access to many plays to really "get" it. It's a great bargain for pinheads.

I am talking about gameplay, not game completion. TS slays newbs. I have team tournaments that include newbs all the time. Most get to play shadow less than a minute on their first few games. If I had WH20 (I would never buy it though), newbs would have a blast because they can play for while, and ride a crazy side ramp on their first or second game.

#137 34 days ago
Quoted from RTS:

The 6 river classes is probably the easiest item to achieve...

Wh2o is just much easier to control the ball to feed the flippers for controlled shooting.

1. With the home roms it is

2. Hmm...that's probably case by case. Some Wh20s can be frantic with the lost mine kick out & some are very easy to control.
TS is actually pretty forgiving with the ball coming down the middle...which is probably the most dangerous place.

Close call..I don;t feel like either one is super hard to get to wizard.

#138 34 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I wouldn't bother with creature. Fixed one for a friend and played it for a week before he took it. One week was enough. The game is so shallow, it couldn't support a newt. Top five theme and music, but if you can play, you'll master it quickly.

I totally disagree with this. If you set the game up right, Creature is not easy at all.
TIP - just make sure you set it up to play tough - it's one of the best 90's B/W games.

#139 34 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

1. With the home roms it is
2. Hmm...that's probably case by case. Some Wh20s can be frantic with the lost mine kick out & some are very easy to control.
TS is actually pretty forgiving with the ball coming down the middle...which is probably the most dangerous place.
Close call..I don;t feel like either one is super hard to get to wizard.

I guess I must be playing copies of TS that are more difficult. I've played three different games in past few years, and all were difficult. Mine is jacked up and incredibly hard. Outlane drains are common, and I don't find the middle much of a safe bet. Bounce returns from the battleground drop can be SDTM as can the center drop. Left ramp is often instand death if you miss. Shadow loops are very difficult to nail, and completing the battlefield is pretty damn tough. Mode shot is super tough, as is the Khan MB/mode shot. I just don't see much of this in WH20. The game isn't a walk in the park, but it's no Shadow.

-1
#140 34 days ago
Quoted from T7:

I totally disagree with this. If you set the game up right, Creature is not easy at all.
TIP - just make sure you set it up to play tough - it's one of the best 90's B/W games.

I had my buddies cranked up as with all my games. The game is four shots... Kiss shot is rediculously easy. Very easy to light extra ball. Right shot is very easy too. Center shot is the easiest, so spelling PAID isn't that tough. The only tough part of the game is the group of snack bar targets. MB is interesting the first few times, but I found it to be easy as well. Thank god the music and theme are so awesome. I think that's the only reason this game gets so much love. It's the opposite of Roller Coaster Tycoon.

I've never had a game that I was completely done with in a week until I had a Creature. Played it at a tournament and destroyed, simply because I knew the rules better than others. If you want to repeat the same four things over and over, go for it.

#141 34 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

1. With the home roms it is

Yes you are right. I do have the wh2o home rom. I didn't know it changed the river class 6 rules.

I'll say the biggest cheat with the home rom is the ball save.

Starting modes in Shadow is much harder than in Wh2o. And getting a Super Jackpot in shadow is a very rare event for me and extremely rewarding.

Both are good games but I prefer the greater challenge of TS.

#142 33 days ago

The mode start and khan are probably harder than any needed shot in wh20, if you even count the boulder garden.

As for tranquiize, if we are talking straight tournament /league shadow is pretty simple with shadow loops... But I guess they're hard on yours, yours must be special

#143 33 days ago
Quoted from RTS:

And getting a Super Jackpot in shadow is a very rare event for me and extremely rewarding.

Same. Hell, I feel lucky when I get even one or two regular jackpots with shadow multiball, let alone getting a double or a triple. I think I've only ever got a super a handful of times, and getting a super during Khan? Fuggedaboutit!

#144 33 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

The mode start and khan are probably harder than any needed shot in wh20, if you even count the boulder garden.
As for tranquiize, if we are talking straight tournament /league shadow is pretty simple with shadow loops... But I guess they're hard on yours, yours must be special

They're easy to hit, but hard to repeat, unlike IMDN loops.

#145 32 days ago

I just put some games on a great shadow my buddy has. Up to this point I have played about 3 games on one, and hi clue what I was dojng. My friend explained it and I must say what a blast. Very faced paced, and super challenging. VERY DIFFERENT than WH20. I'm still in the WH20 camp but man shadow is a blast!

#146 32 days ago

I think that Shadow loop is one of the toughest loops in pinball. Owned two and both difficult although the one I have now is easier ... Still hard though!

#147 32 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I think that Shadow loop is one of the toughest loops in pinball. Owned two and both difficult although the one I have now is easier ... Still hard though!

Yeah most players in tournaments don't play the shadow loop strategy, as is being alluded to here. It's too hard unless you are a top 50 player. Fake news!

#148 31 days ago
Quoted from Maken:

Yeah most players in tournaments don't play the shadow loop strategy, as is being alluded to here. It's too hard unless you are a top 50 player. Fake news!

I play mine a lot and the most consecutive Shadow loops I have is 3. My girlfriend once got 4 and she doesn’t play much so I guess I’m just that bad.

#149 31 days ago

Right but you don't have to hit them consecutively.

#150 31 days ago

WH2O if you want to entertain friends, TS if you want to improve your skill. TS will punish you for every ill conceived shot. Frustrating at first but eventually you get better at shot selection. Also, with the translite from Aurich, TS is a very nice looking machine.

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