(Topic ID: 217450)

The Shadow vs TZ


By gjm7777

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 47 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Jackontherocks
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“Which would you choose?”

  • TZ 93 votes
    45%
  • The Shadow 59 votes
    29%
  • I have or would want both 41 votes
    20%
  • Thanks for yet another poll D-Bag 12 votes
    6%

(205 votes)

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#1 1 year ago

Great, another vs poll on games that are very old and have been out forever...
Even though ratings have these two quite far apart, let's say for a moment that these games were the same price - which would you choose and why?

GamePlay
The Shadow is obviously more "Flowing" than TZ's "Stop and Go" if you read up on the reviews however TZ has a far deeper rule set.
Both have an upper playfield, but the Shadow's feels more tactile and skill based vs TZ's magnets feeling luck based.
Both have multiple flippers however TZ shots are a bit more precise while the Shadows third flipper loop shots require insanely fast reaction time depending on how the game is set up.
Both games are said to be difficult, I personally do just fine on Shadow typically near or over 1bill when playing and it honestly comes down to having the third flipper aligned to make the khan hole when held. TZ on the other hand seems to have more random drains whereas Shadow punishes for missed left ramps.

Theme
TZ has a theme that resonates with many, however the Shadow does too - going very far back to radio & pulp but we all know this one is based on the movie

Sound
Shadow has very good sound, especially when hooked up to a sub
TZ is known for more scratchy/tinny sound and the looping theme song
Both have very good sound effects

All of these will influence and even a singular aspect would decide for some, but after reading the reviews and focusing on the negatives of each - I'm just curious in the discussion. In all reality I'd love to have both one day.

#2 1 year ago

Hahaha awesome poll options. TZ for me.

#3 1 year ago

Just traded a nice Shadow. If you have the space and the funds, i would buy both. Shadow can be found for probably half the price of a TZ.

#4 1 year ago

TZ is the greatest ever, and TS is a great game.

#5 1 year ago

For me, The Shadow is the best game ever made in terms of fun and flow. A complete package. If the theme or the backglass were different it would be a top 10 pin for sure. If the price were the same it would be Shadow all the way.

#6 1 year ago

I don't care for either pin myself, but to each their own.

#7 1 year ago

One thing that drags the shadow down is the Farley Claymore mode - it literally makes no sense and has music that makes you want to ram your own head through the translite.
They could have literally copied the Duel of Wills and had the Shadow's giant nose trying to snort cocaine out of the sunshine cab while dodging police cars and it would have been infinitely better.

#8 1 year ago

I own both games and love them it's a very hard decision to make if you want a faster flowier game go with shadow. If you want a game with more toys and gimmicks more of a stop and go I say TZ. So it depends on what type of gameplay you like.

#9 1 year ago

I also own both and like them both. Like TZ a whole lot more, though. Shadow is a pretty good game but very challenging. Shots are difficult and not really a flow pin imo. Shots like the ramp shots are pretty tough to hit consistently and you get punished hard for missing. Sanctum and battlefield target are also dangerous shots that typically result in sdtm drains. The start mode shot is super tight and I might not even hit it once during a game. I had to change the settings to make the modes easier and the game more enjoyable. Game just gets frustrating. On the plus side, the difficulty keeps you coming back and polishes your skills. Feels amazing to accomplish anything in the game like getting a super jackpot. Prices are going up but still a pretty incredible game for the money. Great theme, cool art, three flippers, and not something you are going to beat for a long while. TZ costs way more but a much more balanced, fun game imo. TZ just has everything I like in pinball. Cool theme, multiple flippers, loaded playfield, and lots to do with easy to understand rules. There is always something to shoot for and a good balance in difficulty. It's not an easy game but doable to get to litz for the average player. I never get tired of playing it.

#10 1 year ago

I've owned both. I don't really miss either one, buy if I had to choose, it would be the Shadow.

#11 1 year ago

This is not even close. One is a classic the other is just an undervalued pinball machine

#12 1 year ago

Pinside has spoken!

A majority of Pinsiders did not pick TZ!

Oh Statistics...

#13 1 year ago

Owned and traded TS. Really liked it but it may have been beyond my ability at the time (and probably now). TZ is a ton of fun and I play it on location every time, might own it someday. Voted TZ.

#14 1 year ago

If anyone has a nice Shadow available within decent driving distance in/around Texas, PM me. I miss it after selling 2 years ago. I have a TZ now and they would be nice complimentary pair. Hotel Monolith on TS might be the best 2 multi-ball mode ever!

#15 1 year ago

Both are permanent fixtures in my lineup. Wouldn't give either up.
room_view_with_pinballs (resized).jpg

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Jgel:

For me, The Shadow is the best game ever made in terms of fun and flow. A complete package. If the theme or the backglass were different it would be a top 10 pin for sure. If the price were the same it would be Shadow all the way.

And if you set up the rules properly is top1:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-shadow-luppin-rules

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

If anyone has a nice Shadow available within decent driving distance in/around Texas, PM me. I miss it after selling 2 years ago. I have a TZ now and they would be nice complimentary pair. Hotel Monolith on TS might be the best 2 multi-ball mode ever!

The Shadow always on top in "most missing" machines surveys.

#18 1 year ago

Definitely make the Luppin Rules changes. Makes the modes achieveable. Best “mod” that can be made for The Shadow, with all due respect to Aurich art package. The factory settings make the game too difficult and unenjoyable. Luppin spent the time to really dial in the rules settings to make the game play great

#19 1 year ago

The factory rules are fine IMO, no need to make your game too easy. You'll never get better that way.

#20 1 year ago

This poll will likely be skewed by TZ fans ignoring it as a ludicrous comparison that isn't even close enough to discuss while TS fans will eagerly click to pump up their favorite game.

#21 1 year ago

The Shadow is a freaking masterpiece. TZ is great and all, but it's no The Shadow. Or, Mr The Shadow to you!

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Maken:

The factory rules are fine IMO, no need to make your game too easy. You'll never get better that way.

Folks are missing out on a lot of the game by playing factory rules. Luppin opened the game up and it’s still tough.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from Maken:

The factory rules are fine IMO, no need to make your game too easy. You'll never get better that way.

Its not at all easier. I set some settings actually harder, other settings LONGER (in time), not easier. Its actually more difficult to finish all modes ( and reach final battle), when the ball has to stay in play for so much longer. The game simply opens up, and becomes more deep in a strategic way. And most importantly, it becomes very much skill based, instead of relying in lucky shots or to be simply played in a difensive manner avoiding to try to finish modes. TS in this way is the pin more similar to a real sport, actually: very difficult, but the more skills you have the better the score, in a pretty consistent way. Anyway, all is explained in detail in the Luppin Rules thread.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from Luppin:

... Anyway, all is explained in detail in the Luppin Rules thread.

And I thought you were just making a statement about how awesome you are. Luppin Rules!

#25 1 year ago

Only owned shadow, but played a lot of TZ.

Shadow for me.

TZ, for me, it too cluttered. And I'm not a lawlor fan at all.

#26 1 year ago

I've owned them both (neither currently) - for me it's Shadow by a small margin.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

TZ, for me, it too cluttered. And I'm not a lawlor fan at all.

I felt same way a few years back. Road Show and Whirlwind (my first one) had me not liking Lawlor. I’ve now owned a TZ for about 3 months, and it has taken this long for it to finally start clicking for me. Now that it has, it’s a really good game and deserves the praise and high ranking it gets. Like a fine wine, Lawlor has been an acquired taste for me.

Shadow is a great game and made
Much much better with Luppin rules adjustments. Owned one for almost 2 years and only made Final Battle twice, never beating it. So don’t think that Luppin made it easier. He just made it more approachable and modes more fun to actually play.

Upper playfields: the edge here goes to Shadow. More skill involved on TS than luck on TZ. Both are good, and both very important to scoring well, but take more skill to beat the Battlefield.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

More skill involved on TS than luck on TZ.

Ha luck on TZ eh?

#29 1 year ago

I know that bomb mode in TS is almost impossible to finish. I finally did it once last week, usually I'm like one shot away when the time runs out... so frustrating.

#30 1 year ago

Man. Tough comparison of two radically different games.

I think the shadow with Luppin rules and Aurich’s art package is an experience to behold.

TZ itself is also a an experience to behold in all of its mechanically complex glory.

To me, personally, TS is the better player, but TZ is more fun, with its childlike wonder inducing magnets, secret passages, and quotes.

#31 1 year ago

You've outlined two very good and very different games. I own both and enjoy both for different reasons. I will preface my comments by saying, I'm not a very good pinball player.

The Shadow can be brutal in terms of timing. The targets accompanying the left ramp can send the ball SDTM if your timing is just a little off. Good nudging skills are a must to prevent the SDTM drain off the lock shot. The mode start is tight and the Khan saucer a challenge to hit. With that said, when you're having a good game it is extremely rewarding due to its difficulty. It definitely has the "just one more game" feel especially when you're one mode away from completing the scarf and you're saying, next time I'll get it! The integration with the movie theme is spot on and the Aurich art package compliments the already excellent artwork. The sound and callouts are excellent especially with an aftermarket speaker upgrade and the flow on fresh wax can be blindly fast. I've yet to beat the wizard mode and only gotten to the wizard mode a few times. (Again, I'm not a great player) But, the next time I play, I'm going to beat it.

Twilight Zone really hit the theme dead on. Ball times are much much longer, at least for me, than The Shadow. Personally, I've had better success getting to LITZ than I have getting to the wizard mode on Shadow. Twilight Zone has a great variety of shots and some unique attributes such as the power ball and mini-playfield. Twilight Zone for me is a slower game (when the power ball is safely in the gumball machine). That inner loop on the Shadow can really get the ball screaming. Twilight Zone is a modders paradise (if you like to mod your games) which can be both good and bad depending upon your perspective. I plead guilty at adding a number of mods to mine. I was lucky enough to find an undocumented HUO game about six years ago and for me I have to admit it would probably be one of the last two games to leave my collection as I love the overall package that much between the toys, the shots, and the callouts. A significant part of that however, is that I love the theme which may or may not factor into your decision.

I really think either choice will buy you an enjoyable and challenging machine. The real decision is what kind of gameplay appeals to you and pick the machine that amplifies that. I happen to like W?D while I have friends that can't stand the machine and wonder why I keep it. At the end of the day, the only opinion that really matters is the person who is trading hard earned cash for a source of amusement.

Good Luck!!!

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from altan:

And I thought you were just making a statement about how awesome you are. Luppin Rules!


TS is really an amazing game, but you need to be a good player to appreciate how good it is.

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from Luppin:

??
TS is really an amazing game, but you need to be a good player to appreciate how good it is.

Sorry, my joke wasn't that clear. Rules can be instructions/guidance/direction or Rules can be, informally, saying something is awesome.

When I read "Luppin Rules", I read it like someone saying "Ruppin Rules! He's awesome". Not as "As a set of directions specified by Luppin"

And all this explanation makes it even less entertaining.

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Ha luck on TZ eh?

On the mini-playfield? I believe so

#35 1 year ago

I love the TZ because of the theme and show but man or man does Shadow have a lot in it and tons of shots.

#36 1 year ago

The Shadow.

FAST, flowing, and fun!

#37 1 year ago

I had both and sold my Shadow, but it’s still a great game and I’d lean towards keeping both.
TZ will never leave though.

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from altan:

Sorry, my joke wasn't that clear. Rules can be instructions/guidance/direction or Rules can be, informally, saying something is awesome.
When I read "Luppin Rules", I read it like someone saying "Ruppin Rules! He's awesome". Not as "As a set of directions specified by Luppin"
And all this explanation makes it even less entertaining.

Luppin DOES Rule!!!!!

#39 1 year ago

Here is an interesting look at the Pinside rankings...filtering to only Bally/Williams DMD-ish era games in the top 100, and then sorting them by Game Design category, The Shadow moves up the list significantly. Moving past the likes of TAF, STTNG, TOM, IJ, and TOTAN.

76A39BE3-C526-407E-9721-E9BC1BCEA38C (resized).jpeg

-1
#40 1 year ago
Quoted from altan:

Sorry, my joke wasn't that clear. Rules can be instructions/guidance/direction or Rules can be, informally, saying something is awesome.
When I read "Luppin Rules", I read it like someone saying "Ruppin Rules! He's awesome". Not as "As a set of directions specified by Luppin"
And all this explanation makes it even less entertaining.

Of course, not a native speaker, but I understood the joke

Just wanted to add that TS is really great, but it's not so popular/highly ranked because to fully appreciate it you need to be an excellent player. So, many people look down at TS beacuse of the unpopular movie in first place, and then because after 10 tens games they think is crap. I actually thought the same after 10 games, and even after 50! But after few hundred games it kicks asses, and after 1000 games (long term) it becomes better than the top rated (MM, TZ to name a few).

2 weeks later
#41 1 year ago

Just following up here but I am fortunate enough to have both games right now and it's pretty incredible. Appreciate everyone's perspective so far!

#42 1 year ago

The beautiful, beautiful thing about Mr The Shadow regarding the movie theme, is that if you get rid of the fugly translite the theme is GONE. Comic book art all the way after that. The Art Deco backdrop is superb, and the call outs don’t take you into the movie if you aren’t that familiar with the movie. In fact, I wouldn’t know if they are movie call outs or not, as I have never seen the movie. It just sounds like comic characters brought to life to me.
To me TS is no movie pin. It is just a masterwork of Art Deco Noir.

#43 1 year ago

If you don't have Alex Baldwin's smug ass face looking at you you don't own a Shadow.

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

If you don't have Alex Baldwin's smug ass face looking at you you don't own a Shadow.

Agreed. In that case, the Shadow owns you!

Aurich FTW.

#45 1 year ago

I've owned both of these. You'd be a fool to say that these aren't both terrific games.

Twilight zone upset me because of the pops. The drain-o-matic pop bumpers frustrated the hell out of me. If it wasnt for that, I'd say it's one of the best games ever. Never seen a machine packed with this many toys. I'd argue it has three toys: the gumball machine, the mini playfield and power ball (if you can call a ball a toy).

Meanwhile the shadow has the best flow of any game I've ever played. I personally think it's a better game than MM OR AFM. I never got bent out pf shape over the translite, so my opinion may be more favorable towards this game than most.

They're both incredible, but if I had to choose one, I'd say Shadow.

#46 1 year ago

With TZ it can take a bit for a game to get "flowing" for me at least - there are those floaty moments where you are waiting for the ball to come back to flippers but with the Shadow it's like non stop action. I know the pops can be insta-drain on TZ but for me that only happens maybe 3/10 times at the most I'd say. One thing's for sure, both games certainly compliment each other being vastly different layouts.
I ended up hooking up TZ to my sub and taking Shadow off - the stock speakers are actually good enough for me right now but TZ needed that bass big time.
The last thing that let's me know I've been playing too much TZ is when I go to use the upper flipper for a loop shot on Shadow, I find myself holding the left flipper to make a camera shot

#47 1 year ago

TZ I love as fan of show but the pin can get more repetitive than Shadow which has a ton of shots and features.

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