(Topic ID: 277316)

The Shadow: Reset on Flipper Fire; No Left Flipper

By vindic8r

3 years ago


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  • 21 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by DumbAss
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01_fliptronic-front.jpg
02-fliptronic_rear.jpg
03_shadow_manual_INCORRECT.jpg
IMG_20200923_232603 (resized).jpg
IMG_20200923_232548 (resized).jpg
01_flipper_power_wiring.jpg
02_flipper_DC_distribution.jpg
01_flipper_AC_source.jpg
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#2 3 years ago

Thank you for posting pictures of your setup. A lot of people ask for help and describe their situation. You often see claims of "it's wired correctly". Then you either see people trying to help and going down a rabbit hole or the issue falls down the forum and quietly disappears.

I'm fairly sure you have your flipper wires for +50V power and holding reversed. When looking at the flipper solenoids as viewed in your pictures the banded end of the diodes should be to the right. The right lug should have two magnet wires coming off it. The thicker magnet wire terminates at the center lug and the thinner magnet wire terminates at the left lug.

You have connected the +50V to the left lug when it should be connected to the right lug and the holding wire to the right lug when it should be connected to the left lug. Check your wiring and check it with the wiring schematic / diagram included below.

Also ... you should probably place the solenoid lugs away from the stop (turn the solenoid around). The stop is a slightly higher vibration environment than the other end.

flipper_wiring.jpgflipper_wiring.jpg
#5 3 years ago
Quoted from vindic8r:

However, the left flipper won't fire at all, via the button nor via test mode.

Not firing in test mode is almost certainly electrical. It is typically the power supply or the drive transistor.

Make sure the coin door is closed (I'm sure it is but it never hurts as a reminder). This machine should have a high voltage interlock switch.

Everything is highlighted and color coded for your convenience.

RED = DC power fuse.
GREEN = AC power fuse.
BLUE = drive transistors.

Check you have +50V at the power supply wire at the solenoid (the right lug - the banded end of the diode). If you don't have +50V then the most likely cause is a blown fuse. Check F904 on the fliptronic board. This is the DC power fuse.

Always pull the fuse from the fuse holder to test it. Do NOT test the fuse in circuit.

01_flipper_circuit.jpg01_flipper_circuit.jpg

If that fuse is good then you need to check the AC power fuse. That is F112 on the power board.

02_flipper_AC_input.jpg02_flipper_AC_input.jpg
03_flipper_transformer_secondary.jpg03_flipper_transformer_secondary.jpg

If that fuse is good then you should have +50V at the solenoid. Next test the drive transistors.

04_flipper_control.jpg04_flipper_control.jpg

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from vindic8r:

Still no voltage when I powered it up, after replacing the bad fuse. They gave clear readings of 0v compared to the .4-.6v ratings I was getting on the rest of the transistors.

I am going to assume that 0V means that it is shorted versus open. In this case the transistor should lock on the solenoid at initial application of power and then subsequently blow the fuse. Did this happen? Once the fuse blows you will have no power at the solenoid. You can disconnect J902 to prevent the transistor from locking on the solenoid to measure power and verify that there is not some other problem.

If the fuse is good but there is still 0V at the solenoid then there's another problem. You should verify that there is AC coming into the fliptronic board and that there is DC coming out of the fliptronic board. In essence you are testing the fuses and bridge rectifier. It's probably just as easy to test the bridge rectifier on the board. No power means that nothing will work regardless of the state of the transistors.

Quoted from vindic8r:

How sensitive are the traces and through holes on the Fliptronics board around the transistors? Am I highly likely to cause damage if I don't have a nicer desoldering station?

A plunger tool will work for your situation. Just don't overheat the pad and apply prolonged heat to the pad if possible. The traces are big but I have a fliptronic board where a trace at the TIP102 has been completely pulled from the board so that a jumper wire is necessary. You can also completely obliterate a pad. I've seen that on power boards where someone decided to torch the pads of the transistor.

I loaned out my desoldering gun to a friend and found I needed to do some minor work. I worked around the issue of not having ideal tools. Cut the defective component out as close as possible to the body (maximum amount of leg lead to hold onto). Heat the pad and pull the leg. You can then either plunger vacuum the solder or heat it up sufficiently and then shake the board (only once). The solder should come out of the hole and onto the bench (or floor). Essentially ... Newton's first law. The solder wants to stay in place. When you quickly accelerate the board the solder stays where it is while the pad and hole move away. The solder falls out cleanly from the hole and forms a nice splat on the surface it hits or a sphere if it solidifies before hitting the surface. Or the opposite ... you accelerate the board and the solder accelerates with it and then quickly stop the board moving and the solder wants to keep moving and falls out.

Quoted from vindic8r:

Additionally, is it possible there might be damage further back from these transistors on the Fliptronics or Power Driver boards? I'm assuming no since the R flippers work. But please keep me honest here.

It might but let's work on the more obvious things first.

1) You need power to the solenoid. First AC and then DC through a fuse and wire to the solenoid.
2) You need a path to ground from the solenoid through a wire and then transistor (TIP102 or TIP36C).
3) You need control of that path to ground from the CPU (digital logic and pre-drive transistor 2N4403).

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from vindic8r:

So I'm getting about 32 VAC coming in at J901, on each pin. I expected 50 VAC or more. Is this indicative of an issue?

Let's start here first. You should be getting 50VAC from the transformer secondary. Check AC across the pins (not to ground). Measure AC between J901-1 or J901-2 and J901-4 or J901-5 (see the second picture). It should match AC between J104-1 and J104-2 as well as between J102-8 or J102-9 and J102-5 or J102-6 (see first picture).

01_flipper_AC_source.jpg01_flipper_AC_source.jpg

Quoted from vindic8r:

J907 is giving readings of about 61-62VDC on all pins except 5-6, which are reading 0.56 VDC. Ah-ha! I think? But shouldn't this have affected both the lower left and lower right flippers?

The problem with the DC voltage supply is that everything is connected to each other through the fuses at F901-F904. To accurately measure the DC voltage it is best to isolate the individual flipper sources. Pull all the fuses and test the DC voltage for each of the four groups one by one (by inserting the appropriate fuse).

02_flipper_DC_distribution.jpg02_flipper_DC_distribution.jpg

#12 3 years ago

Sorry for the lack of response. Thank you for your patience.

I have a few things going on (my own projects and newly acquired work) that generally takes precedence over anything posted on the public forum. I sometimes tend to get a little scatter brain (suffer from "senior moments") when too many things overwhelm me at once. Also ... posting on the public forum takes time for me to read the problem, digest the problem, think about the problem, figure out potential causes or diagnostic steps for the problem, prepare the response, read the response and finally re-read the response (even then I still make mistakes) before posting. I typically spend a minimum of 15 minutes per reply but sometimes it's been up to 30 minutes. I try not to post quick, nonsensical replies (that someone has to come along and correct) or post an opinion without any supporting evidence (such as from manuals or schematics). Private mail often also takes precedence when the person is blocked waiting for a response.

If you are getting DC voltage on the pins at J907 but not getting any voltage at the power supply lug of the solenoid then you have to have a break in the wiring or a poor contact at the the connector of J907. I don't think there are any other causes that I can think of. The rectified DC voltage should be in the +70VDC to +75VDC range so +62VDC seems a little low. Note that there is no smoothing capacitor installed (at least there should not be) as Williams did not populate the capacitor on the Fliptronic-II in later games that used it. A cost cutting measure.

Check continuity and check your connector. It might be time to post some more pictures of the current wiring state for confirmation.

01_flipper_power_wiring.jpg01_flipper_power_wiring.jpg
#14 3 years ago
Quoted from vindic8r:

here are some photos of the wiring at the L flipper solenoid now, just so we can fully rule that out.

Wiring looks fine. Doesn't hurt to verify.

Quoted from vindic8r:

Right. So I confirmed continuity to all 3 of the wires going to the solenoid from J902 and J907.
For grins, I tested voltage again at J907. 1-2, 6-7 read ~67VDC. But now I'm getting 0VDC at 4-5 (Red-Blue). I confirmed this a 2nd time. I checked F904 out of circuit and its good. It looks we might have found something here.

Quoted from vindic8r:

I'm assuming we're going to be chasing the lack of voltage at 4-5 now

Yes. So when I see this sort of stuff I always go back to basics. Verify. Verify. Verify. I found something. It's going to be a lengthy explanation so I apologize. I think it's going to be about an hour by the time I'm done with this reply. It'll then be time to ZzzZZzzZz.

Here is an actual Fliptronic-II board. I spend so much time on my own boards I don't bother with the original Williams boards. Front and rear. Labeled and color coded for your convenience.

01_fliptronic-front.jpg01_fliptronic-front.jpg
02-fliptronic_rear.jpg02-fliptronic_rear.jpg

Here is the documentation from the manual for The Shadow. Corrections applied. Again color coded for your convenience.

03_shadow_manual_INCORRECT.jpg03_shadow_manual_INCORRECT.jpg

Finally ... here is the documentation from the manual for Indianapolis 500. No corrections required. Oddly enough some of the manuals that followed this game still seem to have the error. Copy & paste strikes again.

04_indianapolis500_manual_CORRECT.jpg04_indianapolis500_manual_CORRECT.jpg

So ... after all the required evidence to support my claim ... you need to test everything again with the renewed, correct knowledge based on the actual Fliptronic-II board and not the incorrect Williams manuals. I know Williams manuals have errors and I hate it when I discover them.

For J907-4,5 you need to verify fuse F902 (not F904).

- Please verify that fuse is not blown. If blown then replace it and check the DC voltage again.

- If the DC voltage is present at J907-4,5 then check for DC voltage at the flipper solenoid power lug (banded end of the diode). If no DC voltage is present at the flipper solenoid power lug then you have to have a break in the wire.

- If there is no DC voltage present at J907-4,5 and you checked the fuse is not blown then pull the Fliptronic-II board and post pictures of the board.

Let's start with that first before going any further. It might just be the fuse because we've been focusing on the wrong fuse (thanks to the erroneous documentation).

If you're read this far ... congratulations.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from vindic8r:

Anyway, I removed all fuses including F902, verified they were all good and replaced F902 alone. I'm still getting 0VDC at J907-4,5. Interestingly, the fuse blew sometime while I was taking voltage measures. Not sure if I accidentally caused a short while I was probing or if this is just related to our issue. But I figured I'd call it out, just the same.

It's hard to say why the fuse blew. Some of these things are going to sound stupid but because I am not physically present you will have to do these stupid things. Some of these may also be things that seem redundant or you have done but I'd like explicit results so that I know where we stand rather than making any assumptions. You are my eyes and ears because this is a remote troubleshoot.

Please report your findings. If there is a lack of continuity in any of the checks you can stop and report the findings (or continue if you really want).

Quoted from vindic8r:

Here's are shots of the front and back. I don't see any evidence of prior board work, nor do I see any cold solder joints. But my eyes certainly could be missing something.

First things first. The board looks fine on visual inspection.

- Start the with power off (it probably is but I want to be explicit).

- Disconnect J902 (the orange and yellow wires).

- Disconnect J907 (the red wires).

- Pull fuses F901, F903 and F904. Leave F902 in place (I'm assuming it's good but the test below will also test it). We're going to ignore the other flipper solenoid circuits for the moment and focus on the problematic one.

- Check continuity between the top conductor of the F902 fuse holder and J907-4,5. This verifies the fuse holder to the header pins.

- Check continuity between any of the lower conductors of any fuse holder other than F902 and J907-4,5. This completely verifies the fuse and fuse holder.

- Check continuity between the RED-GRN wire in the connector of J907 and the supply lug (RED-GRN wire) of the flipper solenoid. This verifies the playfield wiring (power distribution).

- Connect J907 (the red wires).

- Check continuity between any of the lower conductors of any fuse holder other than F902 and the supply lug of the flipper solenoid. This verifies more of the board and wiring.

At this point if you have continuity everywhere then the wiring and power distribution should be good.

Do NOT connect J902. Go ahead and power on the machine.

- Measure DC voltage at any of the lower conductors of any fuse holder.

- Measure DC voltage at the top conductor of the F902.

- Measure DC voltage at J907-4,5.

- Measure DC voltage at the supply lug of the flipper solenoid.

You should have +75VDC at all the above points. If not then stop. Something doesn't add up.

- Power off the machine.

- Connect J902.

- Keep your eyes on F902. Reach down and power on the machine. Watch the fuse. See if it glows and then blows.

- If the fuse does not blow then again measure DC voltage at the supply lug of the flipper solenoid.

- If the fuse blows then STOP as further assessment is required.

You should have +75VDC at the supply lug of the solenoid.

If you get to this point then there's nothing wrong with your power distribution to the flipper solenoid.

- Power off the machine.

- Attach an alligator clip to the center lug (YEL-GRN wire) of the flipper solenoid.

- Power on the machine.

- Momentarily touch the other end of the alligator clip to either the ground braid or the side rail of the cabinet. The flipper should execute a power stroke.

- If there is no power stroke then STOP. Again ... something doesn't add up.

That's probably enough of the diagnostic steps to get an idea of what's going on. Sorry for the length of the steps but I'm trying to get as much information as possible at one time to figure out where you problem is. I have a potential idea but I have no evidence and the above steps will help guide as well as provide evidence one way or the other.

I'll finish this post by saying that you could have MULTIPLE problems with subsequent problems being masked by a preceding problem or a preceding problem may be compounding the situation (two separate problems combining in a synergistic fashion).

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from vindic8r:

I should note that you said RED-GRN but I'm pretty sure you meant RED-BLU, which is for our problem flipper.

This is what happens after a long day and I answer questions late at night. I'm glad the error was obvious. Sometimes it's not.

Quoted from vindic8r:

I'm definitely getting lower than nominal voltage at all of these points: 65.4-66.8VDC. It goes up just a bit the longer I leave it on, hence the range.

Let's deal with this later if you want. I don't think that level of voltage is going to affect the flipper.

Quoted from vindic8r:

Yep. It lit up like a Christmas tree the moment I turned it on. Time to buy a few more 3A MDLs. I only have 4 left now, just enough for the 4 on the Fliptronics board - no more spares.

No fuse blow without J902 indicates no errant path to ground in any wiring. Connect J902 and fuse blows indicates a path to ground on the board. The cause with the highest odds is that the stroke power transistor is shorted. No software control (the software is executing the POST) affirms the shorted transistor. It could also be the hold power transistor that is shorted.

flipper_drive_transistors.jpgflipper_drive_transistors.jpg

- Test the Q3 (TIP36C = PNP) transistor. This is the high current stroke transistor.

- Test the Q10 (TIP102 = NPN) transistor. This is the transistor controlling the TIP36C.

- Test the Q9 (TIP102 = NPN) transistor. This is the low current hold transistor.

If they test good you can test the corresponding 2N4403 transistors but they are not likely to test bad. Remember that if a BJT transistor tests good it is not necessarily good. If a BJT transistor tests bad it is bad. False positives are possible.

There is one other thing to test. The flipper solenoid. If the transistor is shorted and the solenoid does not have a problem you should hear the flipper execute the stroke. If you don't then it's possible that it is the hold that is shorted. If there is absolutely no movement then the flipper solenoid might be internally shorted or more likely the solenoid diodes have failed shorted. You cannot measure the solenoid diode in circuit.

- Measure resistance between the supply lug (RED-BLU wire) and the stroke lug (YEL-BLU wire). It should measure ~3.9 Ohm.

- Measure resistance between the supply lug (RED-BLU wire) and the hold lug (ORG-BLU wire). It should measure ~120 Ohm (from memory - it should be in the 100-150 Ohm range).

If the resistances measure correctly then I would replace the transistors (TIP36C at the very least) and try it again. Now that you know there's a shorting problem always power on the machine with your eye on F902.

If the resistances measure incorrectly then I would cut one of each of the diode legs off the solenoid and measure the diodes (now out of circuit). Hopefully one (or both) will measure shorted. You can then re-measure the solenoid resistances without the diode(s) in circuit causing the short. The resistances should measure correctly. If the diode(s) measure shorted then replace them (obviously). Stating the obvious ... NOTE THAT THE DIODE IS POLARIZED SO REMEMBER TO INSTALL IT WITH THE CORRECT ANODE/CATHODE ORIENTATION.

Please report back your findings.

1 week later
#21 3 years ago

Glad to be able to help you.

For those who like a mystery as well as cause and effect ... this is what I think happened. I'm no electronics expert. Just a supposition.

1) Incorrectly wired power supply, power drive and hold drive wires to the flipper solenoid started the problem chain. An easy mistake to make when not paying close attention.
2) Energizing the flipper caused a direct short between the +50V supply and GND through the diodes (installed backwards due to the incorrect wiring).
3) Excessive instantaneous current blew out all the components that blew out.
4) Replacing the blown transistors but not the solenoid diode did not fix the problem entirely.
5) Energizing the flipper then caused the replaced transistors to blow due to the direct short from the blown diodes.
6) The lower left solenoid fuse kept blowing due to the (now) blown again transistors.
7) The fuse was not seen to be blown (easy to miss at power on with the back box door closed).
8) Incorrect Williams documentation caused a significant amount of confusion and stalled the diagnostic process.
9) Once the correct components at cause were identified everything else fell into place.

Some lessons learned?

1) Always check your flipper wiring prior to energizing flippers after a flipper rebuild. The power supply wire needs to be attached to the edge lug with the banded end of the diode.
2) When powering on always leave the back box door open and watch for instantaneously blowing fuses.
3) Trust but verify Williams documentation (I just spotted more errors in the WPC-95 power board schematics yesterday).
4) You cannot test solenoid diodes in circuit and you should always suspect them when transistors continue to blow despite replacement. They are important as they cause the generation of a magnet field (prevent a direct short from supply to GND) as well as block back EMF from the collapsing magnetic field when the solenoid is de-energized.

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