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(Topic ID: 120237)

The shadow. I'm struggling with the magnet. HELP :(


By atariaction

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by atariaction
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

I have been working on this for many attempts over a couple weeks now

The magnet occasionally drops the ball down down the playfield rather than firing the ball up to the lock. I have read another very similar thread and the switch at the bottom of the brick drop target assembly is usually the culprit. (I have taken apart the assembly and cleaned it right up).

I have adjusted this switch and tested and retested several ways and many times and I cant fault the switch.

It seems like the switch to magnet communication is off?

IF the problem is not the switch, what else could it be?

#2 5 years ago

What's your playfield pitch? And how's your sanctum wear? Those can be culprits too.

#3 5 years ago

Also check the trough switches behind the magnet IIRC they can cause issues as well with the wall target.

#4 5 years ago

Just a little sanctum wear can be enough to throw it off

#5 5 years ago

I will check my pitch tomorrow. But I'm pretty sure it is at around 6.5 to seven degrees. I've had my sanctum wear completely restored so it is pretty darn flat.

and woz you are referring to the switches behind the magnet that register that the balls are locked I am assuming.?

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

What's your playfield pitch? And how's your sanctum wear? Those can be culprits too.

I would never have believed this could cause so many problems if I didn't just go through it. Even if the sanctum looks good, it could have enough of a divot to cause the ball to hang up. Just an extra half a second stuck on the sanctum is enough for the machine to miss it as it passes the optos the second time. Plus, if it misses it in this way, it will throw all sorts of other errors at you too, like the wall target is bad, etc. that have nothing to do with your problem. It's a confusing cycle.

You can set your playfield steep and see if it fixes it. I ended up cutting a couple little circles of painters tape and putting them under the sanctum sticker. Just elevating the magnet area so the ball rolls faster when released fixed all problems for me.

Does everything check out in the magnet test?

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from canea:

I would never have believed this could cause so many problems if I didn't just go through it. Even if the sanctum looks good, it could have enough of a divot to cause the ball to hang up. Just an extra half a second stuck on the sanctum is enough for the machine to miss it as it passes the optos the second time. Plus, if it misses it in this way, it will throw all sorts of other errors at you too, like the wall target is bad, etc. that have nothing to do with your problem. It's a confusing cycle.
You can set your playfield steep and see if it fixes it. I ended up cutting a couple little circles of painters tape and putting them under the sanctum sticker. Just elevating the magnet area so the ball rolls faster when released fixed all problems for me.
Does everything check out in the magnet test?

Hmmm so finicky. OK I will build up the sanctum and try that out. And try adjusting pitch. I figured since the magnet was grabbing and throwing most times that it was working fine so didn't do magnet test but will try that as well. I feel better knowing I have a few possible solutions now. Thanks all. Will report back tomorrow.

#8 5 years ago

Are you positive that the switch that activates with the dropping of the target works perfect?

I had this same issue.

That switch activator arm should only be activated by the target itself.. Not the targets height adjuster bar.

Can be finicky.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Are you positive that the switch that activates with the dropping of the target works perfect?
I had this same issue.
That switch activator arm should only be activated by the target itself.. Not the targets height adjuster bar.
Can be finicky.

i am 99% sure but you know how that goes
i can imagine that the activator arm could possibly trigger the switch. do you mean on its way up when setting the drop target up or on its way back down...or both?

i have moved the switch back recently and think that the arm should not hit it but would have to study that. worth checking into for sure thanks

#10 5 years ago

We need to make sure we're on the same page here:

The "activator arm" I speak of is the switch's metal arm that is pressed in causing the switch to function. IT should only be activated by the red brick target dropping... nothing else.

With my issue, this arm was bent/misaligned causing issues. It would hit against the "target height adjuster bar" which is a metal bar at the bottom of the target that is used to increase/decrease the height of the target when it's up. This adjuster bar shouldn't come into contact with the switch activator arm.

Pop up your pf and manually drop that target (game off). Make sure when it drops, it presses the activator arm and you hear the "click" of the switch working. Do this repeatedly until you know if works right. Also, when the target is raised back up, does the switch unclick?

I think your issue is you need to adjust this activator arm to work a bit more reliably.

#11 5 years ago

leveling leveling leveling!!!

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

I will check my pitch tomorrow. But I'm pretty sure it is at around 6.5 to seven degrees. I've had my sanctum wear completely restored so it is pretty darn flat.
and woz you are referring to the switches behind the magnet that register that the balls are locked I am assuming.?

Yes. I had problems with my Shadow wall many years ago and I seem to remember the trough switches being an issue (back in the RGP days). Put the game in switch test and check the switches function correctly using balls.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Shoot_Again:

leveling leveling leveling!!!

pitch pitch pitch!!!!

#14 5 years ago

Even if the switch is good, if the target linkage is worn and does not lift the target all the way every time and it drops back down, the magnet will energize for an excessive amount of time and then just drop the ball down the playfield.

#15 5 years ago

i would be reporting my results but my display went all jumbled. reseated all connectors and got it going. played a good long game. got to final battle. display worked fine for that. then went to soccer and come home, turn it on and now no sound. reseated all cables and still nothing. so taking steps back before i can move forward.

#16 5 years ago

ok got display and sound back so went back to testing magnet.

there is a small divot in the sanctum afterall. been trying to build it up with circles of mylar but haven't got it just right yet.

im 99.9% certain this has been the problem the whole time. any good suggestions on building it up?

#17 5 years ago

OP, next time you're in the backbox, try pushing on the ASIC chip on the MPU. It's the big, square black one near the middle. Push on opposing corners gently a couple times. I was having intermittent sound and DMD garble on a STTNG and reseating the ASIC fixed it.

I would recommend getting a couple pieces of scrap wood and some bond-o. Practice filling a few divots and when you're comfortable, fill it on the playfield and put the decal on it. I just picked up my Shadow and that's what I plan on doing.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

ok got display and sound back so went back to testing magnet.
there is a small divot in the sanctum afterall. been trying to build it up with circles of mylar but haven't got it just right yet.

The shape I found best for building up that area with mylar/stickers, etc. is below. That way it allows the ball to roll off very easily. Just a temporary fix though, and I think you're looking for a more permanent one.

shape.jpg
#19 5 years ago
Quoted from canea:

The shape I found best for building up that area with mylar/stickers, etc. is below. That way it allows the ball to roll off very easily. Just a temporary fix though, and I think you're looking for a more permanent one.

shape.jpg

i actually just had my santcum completely done. machine torn apart, bad wood scraped out, filled, sanded, color matched, clear coated scanctum area and mylared. just maybe 100 games and the magnet caused a new divot. so not ready to redo everything again just yet so ill try your suggestion for now thanks. do you lay them vertically then?

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

i actually just had my santcum completely done. machine torn apart, bad wood scraped out, filled, sanded, color matched, clear coated scanctum area and mylared. just maybe 100 games and the magnet caused a new divot. so not ready to redo everything again just yet so ill try your suggestion for now thanks. do you lay them vertically then?

Yeah, oriented like the picture. I used an exacto blade to cut that shape out of about 4 layers of painters tape and stuck it down under the sanctum sticker that someone here made. I kind of wonder if what's happening is more common than people let on. My sanctum was repaired before I owned it - I'm sure it was completely flat after the repair, but over time whatever material was used in that area must have compressed between the ball and the magnet. So if the repair isn't 100% solid, the problem comes back pretty quickly, and no doubt quicker than the original playfield wear. I'm too lazy to tear mine up again, so leaving it be for now.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from canea:

Yeah, oriented like the picture. I used an exacto blade to cut that shape out of about 4 layers of painters tape and stuck it down under the sanctum sticker that someone here made. I kind of wonder if what's happening is more common than people let on. My sanctum was repaired before I owned it - I'm sure it was completely flat after the repair, but over time whatever material was used in that area must have compressed between the ball and the magnet. So if the repair isn't 100% solid, the problem comes back pretty quickly, and no doubt quicker than the original playfield wear. I'm too lazy to tear mine up again, so leaving it be for now.

yep exactly. magnet compressed whatever material to make a new divot. i was just thinking tonight that it might be a good idea to dremmel out a small circle in the sanctum area maybe 1 inch diameter and place a thin piece of plastic in there flush to the playfield maybe 1/8 if an inch thick. i doubt it would heat up as magnet is only activated 3-6 times a game.

tonight i actually cut a circle out of a clear salad plastic container and applied it to the sanctum area with mylar on top.

if there is a little divot under it, and the magnet pulls the plastic down a tad, when the magnet releases the plastic just springs back into its natural flat shape and likely almost acts as a slight spring loaded release

more importantly the plastic has a perfectly flat surface and has worked perfectly for about 20 games tonight. my problem had been id'd and bush fixed for now

#22 5 years ago

That magnet has an adjustable core. If it's so strong it's compressing the material badly, you should try backing it out a round or so.

Of course there will still be wear from friction but Mylar can handle that. Just a suggestion.

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

That magnet has an adjustable core. If it's so strong it's compressing the material badly, you should try backing it out a round or so.
Of course there will still be wear from friction but Mylar can handle that. Just a suggestion.

that may be worth a try thanks!

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