(Topic ID: 46571)

The Shadow Club

By marsgnu

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 10,189 posts
  • 712 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by okgrak
  • Topic is favorited by 268 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

EB3DAC4B-F81A-448D-A8EF-02E9E953B3D1 (resized).jpeg
E0004292-9AF9-4FE0-890F-3C18B726F8CE (resized).jpeg
20221127_155224 (resized).jpg
20221127_155224 (resized).jpg
20221127_154026 (resized).jpg
20221127_115737 (resized).jpg
20221127_114858 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
20221126_151506 (resized).jpg
20221126_152405 (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20221126-153213_Gallery (resized).jpg
20221126_151436 (resized).jpg
20221126_151410 (resized).jpg
20221126_151443 (resized).jpg
BF9B4766-25BE-41B3-9A28-FB6EB21D585C (resized).png
34C26126-26C0-4ACD-9B2D-48349E4BC88A (resized).png

Topic index (key posts)

4 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 10,189 posts in this topic. You are on page 204 of 204.
#10151 11 days ago

Thank you so much--I did disconnect the J3 of the Opto board and fired it up and this is what messages I am getting. Maybe no power to the board? See the photo of the board with the game powered up. There is a Red Light on the board and is not lit...Supposed to be?

Quoted from Manny65:

Have you tested disconnecting J3 on the sw10 opto board (A-18159) to see the ground short disappears? The additional switch errrors (sw 31-33) are all on the sw10 opto board - the magnet opto is sw33. So this all points to the sw10 opto board and most likely the LM339 having failed.
The Battle Kicker opto and Mini PF bad error messages relate to sw36 which is not on the sw10 opto board, however I'd focus on troubleshooting the sw10 opto board first - remember that you can take the opto board from Indy 500 to confirm your fault finding
Note that the only thing relates to both the sw10 opto board switches and the sw24 opto board that handles the Battle Kicker opto (sw36) is the 12v power from J116-2. However you wouldn't see the ground short error if the opto boards weren't getting power.

20221121_191103 (resized).jpg20221121_191235 (resized).jpg
#10152 10 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Thank you so much--I did disconnect the J3 of the Opto board and fired it up and this is what messages I am getting. Maybe no power to the board? See the photo of the board with the game powered up. There is a Red Light on the board and is not lit...Supposed to be?
[quoted image][quoted image]

With J3 disconnected the LED will not be lit, however it should be lit when J3 is connected. If this is not the case then use a DMM to check the voltage at TP1 on the Power Driver Board (towards the top left in the below diagram) and J116-2 (ensure that J116 is correctly seated), and also J3-2 on the sw10 opto board. Sw24 opto also draws power from J116-2 and has a power LED - check if the LED is on (#15 on the PF diagram below)

WPC Power Board - Voltage Test Points (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png

#10153 10 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Thank you so much--I did disconnect the J3 of the Opto board and fired it up and this is what messages I am getting. Maybe no power to the board? See the photo of the board with the game powered up. There is a Red Light on the board and is not lit...Supposed to be?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Probably not your issue now but you should replace that cap on your opto board. It causes lots of weird opto issues when it gets far enough out of specs.

#10154 10 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Probably not your issue now but you should replace that cap on your opto board. It causes lots of weird opto issues when it gets far enough out of specs.

Hey -- Thanks for the feedback.. Help with the "Cap" statement how does it create issues..

Thanks in advance... More to come, this is a mission on the 3rd year not in action...

Everyone, thanks for the support and guidance. I am learn so much and having fun!

#10155 10 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Hey -- Thanks for the feedback.. Help with the "Cap" statement how does it create issues..
Thanks in advance... More to come, this is a mission on the 3rd year not in action...
Everyone, thanks for the support and guidance. I am learn so much and having fun!

Optos tied to that board start going off-line or worse. Check out this entry in the Twilight Zone club recently.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twilight-zone-owners-club/page/255#post-7132258

I replaced all mine, and everyone was out of specifications. Nothing was failed yet, but it was just a matter of time.

#10156 9 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Optos tied to that board start going off-line or worse. Check out this entry in the Twilight Zone club recently.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twilight-zone-owners-club/page/255#post-7132258
I replaced all mine, and everyone was out of specifications. Nothing was failed yet, but it was just a matter of time.

Oh Wow, these don't seam to be like mine.. Here are the boards in photo..But I also do not see the RED lamps light up, should they be? I still have to test the power source on T1..Yet to do..

Any further advise?

Thanks again, I am getting closer to playing

20221122_184708 (resized).jpgScreenshot_20221123-082955_Gallery (resized).jpg
#10157 9 days ago

Getting close to start working on fixing the sanctum area. Long shot, but does anyone know where I can get a “to the sanctum” decal? I might be able to work around the original one, but would be nice to repaint/clear the whole section.

#10158 9 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Oh Wow, these don't seam to be like mine.. Here are the boards in photo..But I also do not see the RED lamps light up, should they be? I still have to test the power source on T1..Yet to do..
Any further advise?
Thanks again, I am getting closer to playing
[quoted image][quoted image]

Clearly you are not getting power to the opto boards - you need test the voltages at TP1 on the Power Driver Board and J116-2 (ensure that J116 is correctly seated). Let us know what you find

#10159 9 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Clearly you are not getting power to the opto boards - you need test the voltages at TP1 on the Power Driver Board and J116-2 (ensure that J116 is correctly seated). Let us know what you find

Thanks for the reply, testing this weekend coming.. Any guidance on the (+) position and (-) ground positions I should be taking with my meter?

Just to make sure I am getting the correct reading and photos to convey the appropriate information...

Thanks again in advance...

#10160 9 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Thanks for the reply, testing this weekend coming.. Any guidance on the (+) position and (-) ground positions I should be taking with my meter?
Just to make sure I am getting the correct reading and photos to convey the appropriate information...
Thanks again in advance...

Set your DMM to Voltage or DC voltage (if available), put Black (-) on the earth braid in the backbox and Red (+) on TP1, it should read around 12V - if it doesn't pull fuse F116 and check it's continuity with your DMM (don't just do a visual check as it's not reliable). If you have power at TP1 then with the red test lead check J116-2, it should be the same voltage as TP1. If they have power then ensure that the J116 connector is properly seated, raise the PF and test the voltage of J3-2 on the sw10 opto board - if you have no power here (which given the LED is off in most likely the case) but you have power at J116-2 then the issue is in either the wiring or the connectors themselves

#10161 8 days ago
Quoted from remf:

Getting close to start working on fixing the sanctum area. Long shot, but does anyone know where I can get a “to the sanctum” decal? I might be able to work around the original one, but would be nice to repaint/clear the whole section.

Ministry of Pinball has them. They have 2 shades of grey, light and dark. I can’t remember which was a better match. They are out of the darker one. Pinball Center in Germany has them, if you know someone outside the USA who can order one for you. They don’t ship here. I would try the Ministry version if your sanctum area is rough. You could just use the small, round, green/black dot decal that are available for around $5. Many owners have that. Looks like this (see below). good luck!

EA40EE91-ECEE-493F-981D-0DA6934C0025 (resized).pngF5EC7DE1-AFFD-4101-8DAC-D88CE9E3FD09 (resized).png
#10162 8 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Optos tied to that board start going off-line or worse. Check out this entry in the Twilight Zone club recently.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twilight-zone-owners-club/page/255#post-7132258
I replaced all mine, and everyone was out of specifications. Nothing was failed yet, but it was just a matter of time.

Speaking of which, it’s probably wise to consider replacing 30-year-old opto boards on other pins like BSD too? I’ve had some intermittent switches firing for no reason, and I noticed my 10-opto board looked like this…I wasn’t sure it was a problem, but while Pinball Life had both the 10 and 24 opto boards in stock, I’m going to upgrade.

91F08B89-FF2C-48DB-996D-0AD7A9015EE7 (resized).jpeg
#10163 8 days ago

Just finishing up working on my new shadow. I def the pf dead center there is a motor board and my grey/yellow wire is off. According to the manual (page 2-15) it shares the same spot on the connector as the 12v red wire. Anyone take a quick park under their pf to
Confirm ? Thx!
F7E09BB0-AA72-49E5-8A46-73136323D77F (resized).jpeg

#10164 8 days ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Just finishing up working on my new shadow. I def the pf dead center there is a motor board and my grey/yellow wire is off. According to the manual (page 2-15) it shares the same spot on the connector as the 12v red wire. Anyone take a quick park under their pf to
Confirm ? Thx!
[quoted image]

Hope this helps, even if the purpose of my pictures was different (no wires off)

34C26126-26C0-4ACD-9B2D-48349E4BC88A (resized).pngE3FEA082-AEA5-4A76-A446-3BF7F9AA84F7 (resized).png
#10165 8 days ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Just finishing up working on my new shadow. I def the pf dead center there is a motor board and my grey/yellow wire is off. According to the manual (page 2-15) it shares the same spot on the connector as the 12v red wire. Anyone take a quick park under their pf to
Confirm ? Thx!
[quoted image]

The grey-yellow is the original 12v power wire from the power driver board. Either the red wire is for a mod or could have been put in due to a break in the original power wire that couldn’t be found & repaired

#10166 8 days ago
Quoted from DrBernd:

Hope this helps, even if the purpose of my pictures was different (no wires off)[quoted image][quoted image]

Thx for pics and explanation

#10167 8 days ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

Ministry of Pinball has them. They have 2 shades of grey, light and dark. I can’t remember which was a better match. They are out of the darker one. Pinball Center in Germany has them, if you know someone outside the USA who can order one for you. They don’t ship here. I would try the Ministry version if your sanctum area is rough. You could just use the small, round, green/black dot decal that are available for around $5. Many owners have that. Looks like this (see below). good luck! [quoted image][quoted image]

appreciate it. I’ll check them out.

#10168 7 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

The grey-yellow is the original 12v power wire from the power driver board. Either the red wire is for a mod or could have been put in due to a break in the original power wire that couldn’t be found & repaired

Manny thanks for explanation. Just curious in manual for that gray yellow wire it also says + 12v. What is that ?

BF9B4766-25BE-41B3-9A28-FB6EB21D585C (resized).png
#10169 7 days ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Manny thanks for explanation. Just curious in manual for that gray yellow wire it also says + 12v. What is that ?[quoted image]

The grey-yellow is the original 12v power wire from the power driver board.

The red wire is-not part of the original wiring from the factory

#10170 6 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Set your DMM to Voltage or DC voltage (if available), put Black (-) on the earth braid in the backbox and Red (+) on TP1, it should read around 12V - if it doesn't pull fuse F116 and check it's continuity with your DMM (don't just do a visual check as it's not reliable). If you have power at TP1 then with the red test lead check J116-2, it should be the same voltage as TP1. If they have power then ensure that the J116 connector is properly seated, raise the PF and test the voltage of J3-2 on the sw10 opto board - if you have no power here (which given the LED is off in most likely the case) but you have power at J116-2 then the issue is in either the wiring or the connectors themselves

Hey team, Just finished reviewing the list above..Finding are as follows:
--Fuse F116 is good
--Voltage from TP1 = 15.4
--Voltage from J116-2 = "0" (Also tested the post after removed wring harness and "0")
--Voltage from J116-1 = 4.9
--Voltage from J116-3 =15.7
--Voltage from J3-2 = Board is lit along with all others..

Weird thing is I go through a "Switch" Test and All the optos work including the ball thru..how is that possible, maybe moving wires on the main?

So now just the the only error is the "GND. SHORT ROW 4 --- WHT - YEL R4"

Please let me know your thoughts..ugh!

20221126_151410 (resized).jpg20221126_151436 (resized).jpg20221126_151443 (resized).jpg20221126_152405 (resized).jpgScreenshot_20221126-153213_Gallery (resized).jpg
#10171 6 days ago

Hey as all are helping, see this image and just the last images from this post and how NICE the boards are and no corrosion on any part (Very Clean) -- SOooo

How does one (Myself) clean them up and assure the game is clean and Corrosion eliminated?

Quoted from DrBernd:

Hope this helps, even if the purpose of my pictures was different (no wires off)[quoted image][quoted image]

20221126_151506 (resized).jpg
#10172 6 days ago

In case some of you haven’t seen. I just sent the shadow decal set to production. You have t’il Monday to take advantage of the sale price. After wards pricing is going up to regular $40 instead of $30

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-shadow-knows-target-decals-pre-order

#10173 5 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Hey team, Just finished reviewing the list above..Finding are as follows:
--Fuse F116 is good
--Voltage from TP1 = 15.4
--Voltage from J116-2 = "0" (Also tested the post after removed wring harness and "0")
--Voltage from J116-1 = 4.9
--Voltage from J116-3 =15.7
--Voltage from J3-2 = Board is lit along with all others..
Weird thing is I go through a "Switch" Test and All the optos work including the ball thru..how is that possible, maybe moving wires on the main?

Yep that's because J116-1 is the right most pin (not the left as you have drawn in your pic). Hence J116-2 is 15.7V which is why the opto boards are now powered - I suspect that J116 was causing the issue with no power getting to the boards and reseating it addressed the connectivity issue.

pasted_image (resized).png

Quoted from Flystoyer:

So now just the the only error is the "GND. SHORT ROW 4 --- WHT - YEL R4"
Please let me know your thoughts..ugh!

Yep this goes back to the original ground short issue you posted. A ground short can be caused by a failed LM339 on the 10 switch opto board. If you disconnect J3 on the sw10 opto board (A-18159) and the ground short disappears then it'll confirm the LM339 is the issue.

#10174 5 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Yep that's because J116-1 is the right most pin (not the left as you have drawn in your pic). Hence J116-2 is 15.7V which is why the opto boards are now powered - I suspect that J116 was causing the issue with no power getting to the boards and reseating it addressed the connectivity issue.
[quoted image]

Yep this goes back to the original ground short issue you posted. A ground short can be caused by a failed LM339 on the 10 switch opto board. If you disconnect J3 on the sw10 opto board (A-18159) and the ground short disappears then it'll confirm the LM339 is the issue.

---Here I am again, thanks for the support and the replies...

I have checked the (A-18159) opto board on J3 Removed and the message did not change (see photos)... A friend suggest to have the CPU board refurbished since I am also getting many different Cross over errors when go through a switch test..

Any further thoughts, this is my weekend to figure this game out.. It's been about 3 years now not working and now time to bring it alive and playing..

Thanks bunches from all of you on the Shadow "Team"

20221127_114858 (resized).jpg20221127_115737 (resized).jpg
#10175 5 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Hi Yellowghost and Mad Dog and or others, thanks for the guidance and support. I trust you are all well, healthy and safe...
I finally had a chance to upload a "Youtube" video of the switch test to show the craziness. My story to catch up, is that was inspired to install an LED upgrade. Game was playing well into about 60% of the LED swap out near the back end of the playfield and the mini. After completed, game will not boot up into game mode. Messages are "Ground short"-many switches in the test are not working.. Here is a "YouTube" video and some photos.

I hope I did not damage a board!!
Anyone with help and guidance to this troubling messages..What is a Ground Short and where do I start?
BTW--Since I have been on this support, I have sold a game, fixed two others and many more.. Love the help and support..[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Found this tread from a previous post on the switch test...

#10176 5 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

---Here I am again, thanks for the support and the replies...
I have checked the (A-18159) opto board on J3 Removed and the message did not change (see photos)... A friend suggest to have the CPU board refurbished since I am also getting many different Cross over errors when go through a switch test..
Any further thoughts, this is my weekend to figure this game out.. It's been about 3 years now not working and now time to bring it alive and playing..
Thanks bunches from all of you on the Shadow "Team"[quoted image][quoted image]

If the short is still there with that board removed from the equation, trace that white/yellow wire looking for anywhere it might be shorting to. If that is fine use a multimeter to check the diodes on the switches associated with that row in the switch matrix (page 2-40 in the manual).

Edit: since it's not so clear in the manual, switch no 24 (just labeled "always closed") is the coin door interlock switch.

#10177 5 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

So now just the the only error is the "GND. SHORT ROW 4 --- WHT - YEL R4"

Quoted from Flystoyer:

I am also getting many different Cross over errors when go through a switch test..

Troubleshooting allows you to either identify or eliminate components, so your testing (disconnecting J3) shows that the sw10 opto board is not the source of the ground short.

Given you are getting other switch related issues, disconnect the switch inputs (other than from the coin door) to the CPU board and verify the switching on the CPU board by jumping the inputs - the procedure is described here https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems. Any issues including if the ground short remains after disconnecting J206-J209 & J212, then the problem is on the CPU board; if however the CPU board works correctly with the connectors removed, then it proves the board is fine and the problem is either in the wiring or one of the boards on the PF.

#10178 5 days ago
Quoted from skuuun:

If the short is still there with that board removed from the equation, trace that white/yellow wire looking for anywhere it might be shorting to. If that is fine use a multimeter to check the diodes on the switches associated with that row in the switch matrix (page 2-40 in the manual).
Edit: since it's not so clear in the manual, switch no 24 (just labeled "always closed") is the coin door interlock switch.

Thank you and check all switches with wires and diodes in good standing. But--tracing the white/yellow and review the row to the left phurba control, the board on the wall below the phurba control has 2 different white/yellow connectors.. I removed the J3 connector off this board (A-17051-1) Coin door interface board and the error did not appear.. Now I am thinking this board is bad? (photo)

Also, the Relay in photo on the power board will "Click" (RLY1) quite a bit -- (All connectors in) Something new -- Ah Ha!---Now what??? OMG!

20221127_154026 (resized).jpg20221127_155224 (resized).jpg
#10179 5 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

Troubleshooting allows you to either identify or eliminate components, so your testing (disconnecting J3) shows that the sw10 opto board is not the source of the ground short.
Given you are getting other switch related issues, disconnect the switch inputs (other than from the coin door) to the CPU board and verify the switching on the CPU board by jumping the inputs - the procedure is described here https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems. Any issues including if the ground short remains after disconnecting J106-J109 & J112, then the problem is on the CPU board; if however the CPU board works correctly with the connectors removed, then it proves the board is fine and the problem is either in the wiring or one of the boards on the PF.

Thank for the reply, my next step into the search -- I just posted about the Coin door board and your noted not too...HUH!

Wow--Something next to do..

Keep them coming team!

20221127_155224 (resized).jpg
#10180 5 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

Also, the Relay in photo on the power board will "Click" (RLY1) quite a bit -- (All connectors in) Something new -- Ah Ha!---Now what??? OMG!

The Shadow uses a fliptronics board for the flippers, while the flipper relay you pictured on the power driver board is only used on pre-fliptronics games - hence it is not used in this game. Circuitry could still potentially open and close the relay (which is the clicking you hear) but it's not an issue

#10181 5 days ago
Quoted from Flystoyer:

I removed the J3 connector off this board (A-17051-1) Coin door interface board and the error did not appear.. Now I am thinking this board is bad? (photo)

Quoted from Flystoyer:

I just posted about the Coin door board and your noted not too...HUH!
[quoted image]

To test the switching directly on the CPU board, you need to leave J205 connected to allow the diagnostic switches on the coin door working (this relates to J1 on the Coin Door Interface board, not J3).

If disconnecting J3 (this is J212 on the CPU board which I suggested disconnecting) removes the switch errors then it could be the board or any of the wiring that goes into the board. I'd suggest reconnecting J3 and disconnecting J5-J9 - if the error remains then it's the board otherwise it's downstream of the coin door interface board, in which case you'd connect each of J5-J9 to see where the problem is

#10182 5 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

To test the switching directly on the CPU board, you need to leave J205 connected to allow the diagnostic switches on the coin door working (this relates to J1 on the Coin Door Interface board, not J3).
If disconnecting J3 (this is J212 on the CPU board which I suggested disconnecting) removes the switch errors then it could be the board or any of the wiring that goes into the board. I'd suggest reconnecting J3 and disconnecting J5-J9 - if the error remains then it's the board otherwise it's downstream of the coin door interface board, in which case you'd connect each of J5-J9 to see where the problem is

Thanks bunches, and it's the CPU board and removed packed up and ready to be sent out... As soon as I tested the first pin, it triggered several and the next one too.. So off it goes!

I will follow up with the new board in place and "Hopefully" this game is in play!!!

Again, thank you and the team to get through these 2 years of finds and new awareness about pinball workings...

#10183 5 days ago
Quoted from Manny65:

The Shadow uses a fliptronics board for the flippers, while the flipper relay you pictured on the power driver board is only used on pre-fliptronics games - hence it is not used in this game. Circuitry could still potentially open and close the relay (which is the clicking you hear) but it's not an issue

Wow, the clicking just started and is a new thing.. Maybe it's waking up -- Haha!

#10184 4 days ago

Loved the 3d printed Phurba so much.. I added another!

Thanks ACEDANGER

E0004292-9AF9-4FE0-890F-3C18B726F8CE (resized).jpegEB3DAC4B-F81A-448D-A8EF-02E9E953B3D1 (resized).jpeg
#10185 4 days ago

Is it worth upgrading the speakers on my Shadow? If so what are the sizes/ohms for the new speakers? I'd prefer DIY route instead of Pinball Pro to save some money

#10186 4 days ago
Quoted from data_eastside:

Is it worth upgrading the speakers on my Shadow? If so what are the sizes/ohms for the new speakers? I'd prefer DIY route instead of Pinball Pro to save some money

I went pinball pro on my machine and it definitely improved the sound noticeably, particularly in the low end. If you go the diy route you’ll need to add a crossover to the cabinet speaker I believe.

#10187 3 days ago
Quoted from okgrak:

I went pinball pro on my machine and it definitely improved the sound noticeably, particularly in the low end. If you go the diy route you’ll need to add a crossover to the cabinet speaker I believe.

https://pinballpro.net/shop/williams-wpc-complete-speaker-kit-swtr-hf/

Is this the one you got? Standard or premium?

#10188 2 days ago

Just listed my shadow for sale on fb marketplace to make room for godzilla coming in March. Any pinsiders that are interested ill take $200 off asking price right away and maybe more if it hasn't sold by March.

#10189 2 days ago

I got the standard one. Sounds great.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 35.00
Playfield - Decals
Flashinstinct
Decals
$ 5.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
Protection
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Woonsocket, RI
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
From: $ 38.00
Cabinet - Other
Arcade Upkeep
Other
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
There are 10,189 posts in this topic. You are on page 204 of 204.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!