(Topic ID: 110586)

The secrets of Atlantis.....my resto thread

By BCpinhead

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 219 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by essmeier
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

image.jpg
image-585.jpg
2014Nov04 026.JPG
2014Dec30 037.JPG
2014Dec30 036.JPG
2014Dec30 035.JPG
2014Dec30 034.JPG
2014Dec30 033.JPG
2014Dec30 032.JPG
image-197.jpg
image-922.jpg
grrr.jpg
image.jpg
image-727.jpg
image.jpg
image-161.jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider BCpinhead.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#1 9 years ago

Hi, since I bought this a month ago, I have realized this machine needs a lot of love. More than I thought, but a month ago I did not know anything about pinball machines except I liked to play them once upon a time.

Recap:
Located in northern BC canada. A long way from a service tech!
Machine has not been played in at least 10 years.
Play counter reads 86,114!
Basically 99% complete as far as I can tell missing back box metal cover and some parts of the tilt mechanism, possibly a few play field parts.
Needs full repaint
Cost me $150 for the machine as is.
I've ordered a full set of play field rubbers and also stencils for an eventual repaint back to orig graphics.
My first PM never worked on one ever.

So the machine did not complete the full start up sequence (it still does not). When I first plugged it in, I could tell the score counters were one obvious source of trouble they did not reset to zero, and as well the bank of 10 pop up targets on the left hand side of play field will also not reset. The score motor was loose and dirty. Somebody before me decided that some 3 in 1 oil would fix the popup targets (sigh) and that oil dripped onto the score motor.

For the past month I have been working slowly on the backbox guts....I figured that would be a good training ground for me, watched all the very helpful videos, combed through posts here and other sites...all so very helpful thank you!! All the score reels have been stripped, cleaned and now work smoothly. Having passed grade 1 tech I moved over to the ball count step motor!! Now i am on the credit stepper i think.

My question for this night is: on the metal lobes / cams that briefly contact each other in the stepper units, do you lube the contact surfaces with super lube gel, or leave them dry? I did lube the shoulder bolts and other obvious places they were binding, just not sure of these little areas of metal to metal contact. Also do you lube the big black gear teeth in the centre of the unit?

image.jpgimage.jpg

#2 9 years ago

Whoops posted that too fast ...an example of the metal lobe I'm asking about it on the very bottom centre of the above pic....you can see the finish looks a little beat from use. Lube it or leave it dry?
Also, the switch stack on top right was missing a nut. I found one at a local hardware store but it is very big physically outside diam compared to the original ones....where do I find replacement bolts and nuts for these switch stacks I know I am missing a bolt and nut on another switch stack on the score motor. Please keep in mind that I do not have a large local selection of materials to choose from being in a small town. I felt like I won the lottery when I found a small dusty bottle of tri flow in the bike store, and also a small tube of super Teflon gel! Yeah!! (I'll skip the 3 in 1 oil for now)...

#3 9 years ago

While were at it, when I was rebuilding the ball count stepper, I noticed that the brass rivets are worn, and also the snowshoes (I think that is what they are called). I sanded them with 600 paper and tried to round the flat edges of the snowshoes that make contact with the rivets. I'm pretty sure I read someone used JB weld to build up the rivet surface area when they get too worn. This machine obviously has some wear and tear, so eventually wondering if that is something of a viable option?

The way things are going now, I'm going to have many many hours invested in this machine and I would like it to fully play and last awhile.
Thanks,
John

#6 9 years ago

Arrrghhhh!,,,,,
Was a bad night trying to get the ball count stepper back together... all my alignment markings are gone from all the handling and general farting around!!!

DO NOT rely on pen marks and scratches with a screw driver for marking alignment of critical pieces!!!!! But you probably knew that. Sigh...

I tried figuring it out watching the mechanics as I stepped it up and down. It been a long day. It has me beat for now. Annnnd to top it off the increment step seems to be sticking still / again.

Does anything look out of sorts in this pics? I think I have it at zero in this pic but when I count up I can only get 12 before the post on the big black gear binds on the tension wire for the spring. The counter reel goes to 15 so something is up. Thinking the spring tension wire may have got bent while I was wrenching on it?

image.jpgimage.jpg

#7 9 years ago

Thanks for the advice and encouragement by the way....this is a pretty tedious undertaking for me anyways. I never thought of using solder that makes too much sense, I'll keep that in my back pocket.

image.jpgimage.jpg
#9 9 years ago

Thanks pinhead52 I will send you a pm if needed ....very kind offer. After all we must be family eh?

Lol

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from jasonsmith:

John your spring is anchored in the wrong spot. It should be connected to the post that I pointed to in green.

Thanks so much Jason!!! That certainly explains a few things although now I'm nervous to reroute that spring over to its correct location. I will take the switch stack off but I have no idea how much tension is needed. Does a person just count how many wraps around the spindle from "slack" position and go by trial and error. ?

That is a good point ...not to assume what came out and taking picture of before disassembly is correct. I admit I need a game schematic and I guess now this parts manual you mention, plus a switch stack file thing, plus?....I was hoping to put this order aside until I get the popup target issue identified and the missing play field pieces so I don't have to pay so much on individual shipping charges vs one order.

323297-i-296.jpg 57 KB

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

I can't quite tell from the angle of the picture, but it looks like the cam is missing the Max Credits post.
The post that's there will lift the bottom two switches in the stack when at the zero position. But there should be another post that opens the top switch when the credit wheel reaches the maximum credits (usually 15). It goes in one of the threaded holes on the cam. (It's adjustable, and the max credits can be set to limit it to lower values, like 5 or 9.)

DF Thank you. I think you are trying to tell me something very important, and I'm trying to understand your post. I will take another picture when I get home from a different angle and better light. There is only one vertical post coming up off the black gear (sorry is that the cam?) and in the above picture the one post is resting on the left hand side of the switch stack. I think this is zero credit position ...is it? When I was cycling the mechanism mildly cursing and bewildered last night I was wondering what the large switch did / purpose that sits all by itself on the right hand side of the switch stack (in picture above). I guess I now know. Missing more parts is that the max credit counter switch and (missing) post?

#17 9 years ago

Thanks Wayner for the lube chart.

#18 9 years ago

I guess I can reroute the spring as mentioned to correct spot, get the stepper action working correctly ie. no bind and then just reinstall the unit then install the missing the max credit post later while I carry on. I do not want to even touch the tiny "as" stepper units aside from maybe give the copper traces a light sand and once over on the switch contacts looking for obvious trouble. I had hoped to flip the entire back box board down away from the back glass to replace all the bulbs, clean the glass very very gently and maybe krylon it assuming I can find that in town before calling the back box "complete" and moving onto the play field issues mainly the entire popup target rack.

#20 9 years ago

My gawd that is clean. Envious. How do you get the wire looms so clean? Mine are all dusty.

Anyways, that is a very helpful pic DF. Thanks for the handholding too. I retread my post above and got all carried away sorry. If they are hard to come by, I can probably make one of those posts as it is the same thread as the switch stack bolt.

I just came upstairs from looking at it saying to myself I need a picture to see the spring wire routing, especially under the switch stack and lo and behold! Awesome! That sucker does have some tension on it. I think I may count the wraps in your picture vs my spring to judge correct tension. I cannot see the exact routing on the picture you posted, ...I see how the spring wire goes into the mount but cannot see where the tail end points too. It goes around the mount arm then enters the hole heading back towards the cam, but then where? If you could tell me that ... Well, you can have first play.

#22 9 years ago

The status quo as of a few minutes ago. I'm hoping an extra wrap or two will provide more tension and assist my lazy increment action. I checked both shoulder bolts pivot points and they are free. Something else is causing grief. When I first tried the mechanism mounted in the machine it was extremely lazy and would basically not move up or down on its own (spring?) power.

image-526.jpgimage-526.jpg

#23 9 years ago

Thanks MikeO I will do exactly that. At least now I know which stores in town are even a possibility for tiny fasteners. Lol...
Those tiny little switch stack nuts just are not gonna happen though.

#25 9 years ago

Yessssss! You guys are grrrrreat! Got it back together the way it should be and it works!!! Had to add a little tension on the increment return spring now it works like a charm. I see I have a broken fibreboard piece between two switches. Dirt flippers pic above shows how it should be. Should I fiddle with small piece of wood to replace or leave as is you figure?

Anyways, I'm thrilled to put that behind me and just have simple task tomorrow to go to the hardware stores to try (again) to find a 4-40 bolt to make a max credit post. I think I can use the largish nuts avail locally for this job. Cut that extra large switch blade you mentioned too. Much neater. Very pleased....

Maybe tip down the board to replace bulbs tomorrow night!! Only taken a month +\-!! Lol

Could anyone please tell me if there are any special blinker bulbs on the back glass? I bought some 47 bulbs online the night I brought the machine home thinking it will be easy....I'll just go a few things first....plug it in you know, see what happens...watching the score reels shimmy and struggle...
<insert bad sounding noises>
Cheers,
John

#29 9 years ago

Well darn!!! Big moment of triumph not to be. I put the credit counter back in, replaced most of bulbs, and put the backbox back on the cabinet. Put plugs back in and tried to see if I could get a complete start up sequence. Not to be. I'm having a big problem with the 10 score reel? There is an angry buzz coming from the 10 reel... it seems to be stuck? But works well when you manually cycle it. The 100 reel is different than all the other score reels and I don't know why. I'm wondering if a previous owner did some kind of swap or is it supposed to look like this?
The 100, 1000 and 10000 reels reset fine.

See pic

image-317.jpgimage-317.jpg

#30 9 years ago

The 10 score reel
Yes there is a machine screw missing.

image-846.jpgimage-846.jpg

#31 9 years ago

And a total strike out in town for those darn 4-40 switch stack bolts....in this case though it was to make a max credit post for the cam (currently missing). The smallest anyone sells in town is 6/32.
Still have not a chime or ding or anything like anything on the play field will actually work.

#38 9 years ago

Thanks you guys. The missing bolt and screw is a tiny distraction right now compared to having to delve into this backbox again. I will place an order soon for misc bits so I will get a few bolts put in thanks for the offers.

I have never played this game, so I was hoping someone who knows this Atlantis game could please tell me what features score 10 points to help me narrow down what to look for on the play field for a stuck switch as suggested by DF.

When I first put the back box on after my revamp, I made sure all the reels were not a zero to see if they would reset. As mentioned, when it hit the start up button on the coin door, all did except the 10 reel and makes horrible buzzing noise. I will take that reel out now and make sure I assembled it properly as process of elimination.

#39 9 years ago

Update. So the N relay does not seem to be stuck on when the score reel coil is making that racket. I had it set on 2 then plugged it in, made the racket right off the bat, then I pushed the game start button on coin door. Tried to reset the 2 and still making noise. So I'm standing there looking into the backbox at the N relay with all the racket trying to concentrate and then it switches to 3 and the racket stops. Then it slows ticks to 4 then 5 with no racket. I wander to the front of the machine and it then ticks to 6 then slowly 7. A few minutes later I'm typing this with the kids staring at it (in the quiet!) it ticks to 8 just because. Still at 8 now for a few minutes. Looks nice with the lights on lol! Any advice would be very appreciated. It seems it does want to try and help me play it??!!

#40 9 years ago

Just pushed up on the N switch bank as it stands quiet and it went to 9 quickly but with the loud buzz "the racket" only momentarily. The I sat down to type this progress and it goes to zero again same as above. Few seconds in it goes to 1 - now I shut it off. It def seems as though a switch somewhere it making intermittent action. But why the horrible noise whenever it activates at the reel coil?
I'm gonna owe you guys a pile of brews at the end of this!!

#44 9 years ago

Beautiful!!
It works!!!!!
First chimes heard!!

#45 9 years ago

The culprit.

image-463.jpgimage-463.jpg
#47 9 years ago

Darn....short lived victory. Same problem is back. I don't really know what I did the first time to settle things down where I could activate the ball switch thing to get the play field and chimes working.
every time I turned it on off on short order (with buzzing reel) it would advance one number. Somehow on the last go round, it just finished the reset quietly (all zeros). At least I now know it works! That is very exciting just itself!

I manually activated mostly every target last time around prior to successful reset, and must have got lucky. I thought the above pic was the source but now thinking I'll check the roll over targets they score 10 also. My paper trick is not doing the job I thought it was ...too easy...?!?

The N relay is a mystery DF sorry but I don't really understand how they are supposed work. Back to grade 1 EM tech. I have to go back and read your post again and again. All four switch blades inthe plastic ladder are open at all times even when buzzing noise happens. Noise is clearly coming from the score reel coil and when I manually close the switches by pushing up on the littler plastic ladder (fiddling not knowing what I'm actually doing I confess) nothing happens...still buzzing away.

I turned machine on / off again with loud noise at each step. As soon as power is cut it advances one step. When I get to 9 it the "buzzing" is less loud, and at zero seemed like it almost wanted to go away. Sorry for all the gibberish I hope you can follow me.

#48 9 years ago
Quoted from wayner:

OK great but I would not have thought the target was a 10 pointer!

It's not. I was / am an excited dumb ass.
Still savouring the first seconds of gloat as the ding dings rang out and we all saw it "work". Lol
There is no shortcuts around these machines that's for sure.

#49 9 years ago

I'm going to closely at the EOS switch on the reel as suggested by DF.
An energized (sustained) coil can make this very loud rattling / buzzing noise? They must have tsome power to do so! It's like a mini jackhammer!

#52 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

While this may not be the current issue, that switch still shouldn't be closed like that (if the contacts are in fact touching).

Understood thank you DF. I was sure that was the problem.

I tried your advice DF and unplug the smallest jones plug coming from the main cabinet. That would be the top most of three jones plugs in the backbox. Here at least. Anyways, I tried that and the racket is still there. I took some pics of the N relay as-is just now in the hopes something wrong might present itself. Everything looks clean and it was hard to take a clear picture off the entire unit. I guess I could take it out but don't know what I'd be looking for.

Something that is strange is that it does not seem to move - I've only seen the switches open (all four). Air between all the four sets of contacts. ?

#53 9 years ago

The N relay as is.

image-888.jpgimage-888.jpg image-296.jpgimage-296.jpg image-321.jpgimage-321.jpg
#56 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

There are only two paths to energize that coil: the reset path and the score path.
The score path is via the switch on N that I noted above. There's only that one switch on N that will activate the coil. If it's closed, or there's a short on the backside where the tabs are, the score reel coil will energize. If the switch on N is stuck closed (or has a short on the backside), then the EOS switch on the score reel will have no effect. N would not need to be energized at all if the switch there is stuck closed (or there's a short).

You said ....or has a short on the backside where the tabs are. That would be the side facing me right? Certainly sounds like it is a good possibility since all the switch contacts are open. But I don't know what the tabs are. Sorry!!

#57 9 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

So are the score reels resetting all the way? If not, and you have the playfield score switch jones plug undone, I would suggest you revisit the switches on the buzzing score reel. What it sounds like might be happening is that the switch that is normally closed when the score reel is not on zero is not closing strong enough to actually drive the reel to the zero position.

Ok thank you Mike I will definitely look at that. I'm going to really have to step up my game for using jumpers and such. The reels all reset except this troublesome one. Achingly close!!! Especially with the light at the end of the tunnel I saw earlier today. It will come.

Thanks again all of you, and the forum owner.
Cheers,
John

#59 9 years ago

Just managed to get back to this.
Something is definitely buggered on this switch stack. Pictures on 9 and 2. There is a rubber coated U that swings out on 9. I can see that it would make sense to contact the far left ("last") switch blade but it does not get anywhere close. So that seems simple and requires a small adjustment with a tool I don't have.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#60 9 years ago

Picture taken when the rubber U is at rest (numbers 0 to 8).

image.jpgimage.jpg
#61 9 years ago

Looking at it just now in the pic again and I bet the rubber U needs to get moved over to the right hand side of the switch stack...like 2 blades over , Right? That way it would activate both sets of blades. That would be a re-assembly error of mine but if so, and it gets things working....

#64 9 years ago

Running downstairs now. Lol
Thanks!

#66 9 years ago

Awesome!! Works beautifully!! Well, there is an issue with the credit counter, but seems minor for now. Thank you all very much.

Onto the playfield issues... I have to look closely at the images on the pinball databse of the various sections ... The bank of pop up targets problem seems to have sorted itself. <fingers crossed>
It is very tempting to cobble it back together now for a game or two (or 20).Lol.. I really dont want to strip the playfield like a full resto, so maybe I should change the thread title. Recall though the cabinet/whole game needs a full repaint and wood work. Project of itself that one. Plan is to replace all rubbers (I have them), more lights, buy the missing plastic posts (2 diff sizes) and to clean and wax around all the features. I bought some Mr Clean sponge things awhile back.

Also, around the 2 middle pop targets at the base is a (dirty) clear plastic that is loose. Should it be glued down? I see Pb resource site sells them.

#68 9 years ago

DF, you state the playfield could be stripped in an hour with experience. You have some good points as usual - I'm wondering what benefits I would get by stripping the playfield down? I will take off those mylar loose rings thanks.

I searched for some good playfield revamp threads but could not find any. Is the main benefit just having a smooth surface to work on and get a good waxing? I cannot figure out how a guy gets those wire rails off and on again...looks like a lot of high stakes work.

Also a previous owner used finishing nails in some places, but maybe they are original? Is it OK if I post up some pictures of sections of the pf and get your advice on how it should look? It is hard to tell from the photos on the database.

#69 9 years ago

Also, I forgot to ask earlier, but since it looks like I'm finished with the backbox for now, if I wanted to clearcoat the back glass a) how would I clean it b) use krylon clear satin spray can?
Thanks!
John

#70 9 years ago

Looks like my stencils will be shipped next week for the cabinet respray. Now I just need a nicer coin door.

#76 9 years ago
Quoted from manitouguy:

hi BCpin
sounds like you are getting things sorted here, post your playfield pics - there are plenty of us with an Atlantis, and plenty here who can give advice on playfield work too
cheers, Ron

Cheers Ron, thanks, will do.

#77 9 years ago

Wicker, thanks. I scored a can of the triple thick at CT today. Have it now on hand. Even reading that advice made me nervous, but yes, I can see general oily grime on the back glass from years gone by and hard working score reels. I do not seem to have any flaking but there is a tiny hole at the game over lamp, also some minor wear where the credit reel seems to have a little stick on cushion between it and the glass which by the way is basically messy dust now don't know what to replace that with...not rubber anyways, maybe some stick on felt pads?

#78 9 years ago

Wayner, thanks a lot buddy. I look forward to watching that vid later tonight.
DF I will probably go through with a partial strip. I think I have to take out the pop targets to get the Mylar discs off? Time to post some pics.

#81 9 years ago

Well, here is is one section that was like this when I got it. I can't figure out what the very bottom (lower left) hole is for. It looks like some sort of wire hole not a screw. Then just above it I am missing a post. But the screws are not the right type to hold the plastic cover on top right? Is the finishing nail supposed to be there?

image.jpgimage.jpg
#82 9 years ago

Missing two posts here and also the proper screws and fancy nuts to hold the plastic cover. I still have my paper shim in place. But again, there is mystery holes above the bent wire pieces near the bottom of the photo between 8 and 3. What goes here? I have all the plastic cover pieces by the way, so that is good.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#83 9 years ago

Post missing here or nail?

image.jpgimage.jpg
#86 9 years ago

Very top of photo there is a nail. Is this supposed to be here?

image.jpgimage.jpg
#89 9 years ago

The pop targets and the Mylar rings. The paint underneath the rings is damaged a bit. I don't know much about wear and tear with pinball machines but I cannot believe this pf has 86000+ plays on it!!

image.jpgimage.jpg

#95 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

That's missing a whole small post and clear plastic piece.

UpperArchAtl.jpg 81 KB

Wow this a lot of small pieces I'm missing. Thanks for posting up that photo, I was reading over MikeO post trying to visualize a mid level plastic. I have to go digging through my misc parts box that came with the machine.

#96 9 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

There was a deflector pin type nail in the lower hole originally. It lasted maybe 5 games at that time. Live without it.
As for your missing post, not sure what went on here before. There should be a metal post with pin on top on both the posts on the slingshot side of this area and a screw with washer on the lower right post. A single run should surround the three posts. Your picture shows a single post ring on the two posts in the picture. That is not correct and ineffective.

Thanks MikeO, that is a great explanation. Good to know I can leave the hole as is. I have to sort through my box of goods and make a parts list. I will see if I have a mid level plastic as you mention above.

#97 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Playfield looks to be in awesome condition. A lot of Atlantis playfields exhibit planking/graining and wear in the dark blue sections. This one seems pretty nice so far.

Would you take those Mylar discs off Dirt?

#98 9 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

This should help (caption and listing mention the pin)
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=105&picno=7365

It does Stashy thanks I should have seen that first time around.

#101 9 years ago

Ok then, I will take these discs off, clean underneath the pop targets and replace the discs. Envious of the full stripped play field you share with us DF but there is no way I'm going to take those wire rail things off, same with the 2 rollover star targets. The arch at the top of my pf shows a clear ball track. I see yours pictured does not. Is it possible to do a light scuff and brush/spray to minimize further wear (with a varathane)?

#102 9 years ago

Not tragic, pretty minor really. Just thinking to seal it up now while it is apart vs trap more dirt.

image.jpgimage.jpg image-337.jpgimage-337.jpg
#103 9 years ago

DF mentioned the blue areas show signs of planking / graining. Not sure exactly what this is but this machine pf I have has tiny white flecks (gouges)? in the blue paint.

image.jpgimage.jpg
#104 9 years ago

How rude of me!! All these posts and not even a decent backbox pic with the custom marine blue trim. ditto for the machine. Coin door is mangled basically ( not gonna buff out). You guys rock!
Your collective advice has been a real saviour for me and to machine.
<beers>

image.jpgimage.jpg image-964.jpgimage-964.jpg
#107 9 years ago

Darn had a big reply then lost it all when I went down to take a pic just now.
Wayner, solid advice.
Don't flog me too bad but the executive decision to not strip the pf has been made. I did have a date with mr clean spot remover sponges last night and between them and just paper towel and water, the pf cleaned up and the cabinet gleams! I then waxed the pf as best I could spent about 2 hrs on it. The playfield was never really dirty, turns out to be wear ...at the lighter grey areas I guess and not grime like I thougt or at least it is now waxed in grime! The grime that came off the cabinet was just amazing. Playfield is very smooth and just aching for a play.
Lol
We will not rack up huge amts of games and so the pf full strip and resurface is deemed another project for later. I would like to get this up for Christmas.

Mike that plastic piece you mention....mine is broken also. Should I pm you for a replacement cost?

There is a section of yellow paint that is above the transformer area it looks as though it just starting to bubble very slightly or my imagination but it is a protected area no ball traffic. Will monitor.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#108 9 years ago

Traffic out front of the 10 bank. A lot of this type of wear pattern, but seems subsurface? As in OK to run with as long as you wax everyonce in awhile...or am I off base ?

Off to get that parts list complete and sent away. See anything strange in 2nd pic?
Thanks for following!
image-13.jpgimage-13.jpg

image-804.jpgimage-804.jpg
#110 9 years ago

Well cr@p. Rookie mistake.
Can I ask why? I had a bottle of alcohol right beside me too...
Now what?!??

#112 9 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

PM me for the plastic.

Will do thanks.

#115 9 years ago

I have put an order together but I cannot find any mention of these special screws. The ones that allow acorn nuts on top...what are they called (the one by the target).

Also, the slingshot bumper top plastic cover (below the target)...I'm not sure if any of the posts or screws pictured are correct as this is the way I got the machine -disassembled. I think the posts are supposed to be the taller 1 and 3/8" posts (x3), but do they need the taller special screws with the provision for the acorn nuts? As pictured now, there is just screws and washers, and judging from all the other plastic covers and how they are fixed, this is not correct.
Thanks!

image-960.jpgimage-960.jpg

#117 9 years ago

DF, thanks for the part number and description but is that for the 1" post or the 1 3/8 post size? At risk of pushing my luck may I please ask for the other number also because I need both long and short post materials and using the right nomenclature and part # will help for success. I am in the sticks and need to get my order right the first time. Did you get these numbers out of a parts manual?

#121 9 years ago

Update: The pop up target 10 bank has to come out for a thorough cleaning. I thought I could put it off but it makes no sense, may as well do it now and one target is sticking....only get worse. SOoooo, I have been looking at it and searching for a good re-build thread, can anyone point me in a direction. I searched youtube as well. How many banana job are we talking about here vs rebuild of a stepper unit? I hope to take the entire unit out to clean but looks like all the switch stacks and the two coils have to come off for sure, but then the metal cage comes off quite nicely?

#127 9 years ago

Thanks guys. Getting primed for popup target 101 tomorrow. Mike, in the picture below you would remove the 4 cap screws and then hang the coils somehow off the board, then remove the frame as one unit. Just double checking. No parts package in mail today. Goal is partial clean and free up sticking target. DFs post above confirm that full dismantle and clean is not going to happen but thank you very much for posting that info though, maybe I'll have to use it in the near future. I really want to clean crud off the top plate and all the oil that was soaked on the target bodies. If I can get that done and get them all working nicely it will be a good day. Hoping box of pf parts come soon!
DF out of curiosity, could you please post a pic of your spring hook tool? There seems to be a whole range of sizes.
Cheers!
image-26.jpgimage-26.jpg

#130 9 years ago

Looks really good DF. Except the beloved "we don't ship to Canada".
Princess auto here I come.

Big day today. Box o parts came....yeah! Thanks John in Vancouver!!!

Avoided popup targets again. Decided pop target mylars. What a nerve wracking job. !! The soldering and unsoldering, getting the light bulb holder tabs straight....steadyyyyy....
A stray screw driver or needle nose would be tough to take.

image-656.jpgimage-656.jpg

#133 9 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

The original loose mylar 'protectors' did a great job huh?

So glue new ones down with some kind of mild adhesive? Now or never (or for awhile)...

Yuck! Old vs new.
I cleaned and waxed well before reassembly. This first pop was pretty straightforward.

image-296.jpgimage-296.jpg image-316.jpgimage-316.jpg
#134 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

"Drop Targets" (ahem).

Sorry ....lazy on the nomenclature.

#135 9 years ago

Here is a secret of this Atlantis anyways...

I'm glad I tackled this mini project. This one pop target was very dirty. Turns out it looks like it was very close to self-destructing. I knew something was up when the rod from the body to the nylock nut just spun. Needle nose with black tape on the jaws gave a good grip to loosen the nut.

So, what would you do? Take to friendly neighbourhood welding shop for a tiny spot, JB weld, or new?
I'm leaning to the welding shop buddies.

image-144.jpgimage-144.jpg

image-894.jpgimage-894.jpg

#138 9 years ago

This is a dumb question as the cover says "100 pts when light" on the pop target cap, but the pop targets should or should not have 455 blinker bulbs in them? This machine came with a 455 in one and nothing in the other. ??

#143 9 years ago

Thanks both of you. I will go with the dry non glued cause that is what I have on hand. Everyone has their own comfort zone.

#145 9 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Pretty hard to weld that and not distort the rod/ring geometry. Not to mention, PBR has them in stock for $4.84.


Waaaaaaa......
Another order placed!! The day I receive the first one! 2 new on the way (1 for a spare) and another $35. I have to re-jig my entire setup meaning no more shortcuts. Pf has to come off and get flipped over so I can even think of re soldering those connections, plus will make the removal of the drop target bank removal much friendlier. Sigh. New Years for first games I guess ...Christmas play chances fading.

#146 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Make sure it's waxed first!

I waxed it very well!!! Thanks for the bulb info (u too stashy). I Placed a few blinkers in the backbox and am looking forward to the "new" look.
<Canadian beers>

C'mon expedited parcel post!!!!

#152 9 years ago

I was going to ask about that!! Thanks a lot for bringing it up - I just read it last night, and was muttering to myself a few minutes ago about dremeling. I marvelled at the entire thread 33 pages! I think I made it through 4 pages and was blown away (and the time invested, free sharing of quality info). I think I have a spring removal of sorts. This is the first tie I have the playfield unattached and flipped over - feels positively much much better to work on!! I'm guilty thinking "this wont take long and we'll be playing it tomoroow or next day"......ummm
....

Wrong!

Super exercise in patience. <zen>

The so far avoided 10 bank comes out in an hour. Time to take pics and more pics.

#155 9 years ago

Agreed Wayner. I took Plan B route, just not in for another battle. Plus my wife finally expressed disapproval (as I was cleaning the bank on the kitchen table...hey I had it on newspaper at least! Lol)..
This situation could seriously jeopardize acquiring any other machines in the future!
So now it is imperative the machine goes back together as efficiently (but working) as possible. I'm waiting on pop bumper ring metal ring part.

I did take off a minor amt of paint on the targets by accident. Should I cover what remains with anything (easy) like a good clear tape?

But hold it,... what is this giant stepper unit I have not crossed paths with until now? A) it seems it is lazy and does not complete a step without help and b) seems out of adjustment. In the picture I have just activated the return coil and the disc has returned to "zero". I don't know what this beast is. I will have to give it a quick clean and I think an adjustment.

image-161.jpgimage-161.jpg

#158 9 years ago

Update. Parts for pop bumper showed up today. Was excited to get that back together only to find that one mounting screw into the playfield is stripped. So I glued in a few tiny sections of toothpick with wood glue and will let that dry overnight. Darn. So close...

I'm now working on the playfield pieces that were missing and re rubbering everywhere as well, bulbs, more cleaning etc. a few random questions though:

One leg has a strange half moon shaped piece on it near the top....why? Where is it supposed to go? A specific corner of the machine?

image.jpgimage.jpg

#160 9 years ago

I found this strong magnet attached to one of the side rails a few nights ago. Should it be somewhere specific on the machine or just picked up along the way somewhere. It is an odd shape. Coin door maybe?

1-9 sequence stepper is better after a lube, clean etc but still lazy around 6 so I need to add a bit more oopmf to the cam return spring. Was relieved to get the playfield flipped back over and back on the machine and see a smooth reboot after some major removal/repair. Soooo close to a first game.

image-727.jpgimage-727.jpg

#161 9 years ago

Also, I have no experience until now with the pawl nuts and plastics. Do you snug the nuts up or leave them just so tiny bit loose so the plastics have a bit of wiggle room to expand/contract with heat of light bulbs?

#162 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

That's not part of any Gottlieb. Is it just a magnet stuck on the leg?

Well I feel stupid. That actually IS a magnet! A very powerful one mind you, it did not to budge. I had assumed it was welded on for a specific reason! Sorry to post up such drivel...thanks DF.

#164 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Nope, not part of a Gottlieb.

Yep, loose (to reduce risk of the plastics breaking from the ball hitting them).

That makes a lot of sense thank you. Glad I asked.

#165 9 years ago

Success!! Well getting there one item at a time. It is such a satisfying feeling to power the unit on and see a complete reset and ball push over to the shooter lane. It is begging for play!!

1-9 step unit works beautifully with another loop taken of the cam return spring. I did my first switch blade adjustment on the round target mentioned way back in this thread (it was closed all the time causing constant scoring issues)...

Another great win was the tooth-pick trick used on one of the pop bumper screws. It worked like a charm tightening up the screw this morning and actually made my day. Discovered another stripped location (post) tonight. More toothpicks (use the flat variety by the way) and wood glue but not in such a critical position as the pop bumper.

So I tried to play a mini game and all went very well until the left hand side sling shot was activated...it started going crazy on a reverb sort of situation ....it kept firing from the rubber vibrating and setting off the switches continuously so obviously the gaps between the switch contacts is not enough. ? This may be difficult to describe, but what would the optimum gap distance be for the two switches on the left hand sling shot bumper? Trial and error? I have not had as much time to read over articles on the net lately.

The machine lights up beautifully, and will be fully playing tomorrow with a little luck and some jury rigging of some playfield plastic until replacement arrives. Nice!!! Thanks you guys!

#168 9 years ago

Thanks DF - that helps! Off to tweak those switches and finish off the playfield bits.

<ding ding ding>

Ya Baby!

#170 9 years ago

Happy almost new year!
My kids got the first play.
They have since upgraded to a stack of books... Lol
It is an awesome game we love it.
Funny story:
The day I got it running we went to a party and we're late cause we were all playing it and did not want to leave. Get to the party and several folks ask how the machine is. I tell them that is why we are late and having a blast with it and offer to drive a bunch back over to out place for a quick game. Then one gal there says "we used to have in in our basement as kids...my dad is an electrician". Can you imagine? Small town workings for sure.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#171 9 years ago

Is it normal that the 2 switches behind the 10 popup targets take a real beating (like when there is one end target left up)??? They are behind the rubber band. Also, the switch gap setting is pretty dicey ...I can see discrepancy in the pressure of the ball needed to fire the slingshot from the top switch from the bottom if that makes any sense (left hand lower pf).

#174 9 years ago

That is interesting DF...double rubber bands behind the popup targets. Of all the pictures I have seen though online I pretty sure I have only seen a single band in this location (like I have and the ones on ipdb.org). Do either of you Mike or DF have the double band setup here? I will have to widen the switch gaps a bit here regardless. Getting small amount of machine gunning.

Also, could you please tell me about the time delay (if any) there is supposed to be between when you knock down the last target and the whole (10) bank then resets? It seems to vary on my machine from almost immediate to a minute or so? I assume it should be immediate but maybe there is more going on here than a simple reset?

I have some kind of related gremlin on the 10 popup bank or its reset relay because as of last night, when all 10 targets gets knocked down, the reset does not complete - then whole bank of targets tries to pop up (reset), but just sort of half does it continuously and the machine scores (I think 1000?) every reset "cycle". It is a shame b/c I had it all buttoned up for New Years day pin party, but now have to dig the tools out again.

I have to turn the machine off / tilt it to get it to stop, and even on a restart/reset on the coin door does not stop it. ?? I turned the machine on this am and tried a reset and worked no problem?!

Still cannot complain too much - it does play very well and is super fun!!

#179 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Drop target reset should be immediate after knocking down the last target.
If the reset is weak, make sure both reset coils are firing (check both fuses, wiring, etc.). It really does need both coils to fire to get a reset to work.
And yes, I use double rings behind the drops.

I'm on it. Thanks DF.
Wayner, Hopefully that dog is not yours (or guarding your pins). lol

#182 9 years ago

Well darn...
I've got issues.
Lol
The 1-9 sequence stepper unit. (The 10 target bank seems to behave for now).

I'm not sure how to explain this next bit.
I don't know where the "Zero" position is on the 1-9 stepper unit for example when the machine restarts. I restarted the machine and watched it - it does not move. Does it re-set?

The symptom is continuous 1000 reel counting when you run through the number sequence with "Targets On". It gets to 8 OK but then as soon as you run over 8 all heck breaks loose as described. The stepper unit coil seems to fire every score motor rotation. The post on the cam hits the switch stack but does not stop the chaos. ?

Something also amiss in this scenario is when you count up from 1 and the rollovers are lit, it goes from 4 to 7 (misses 6 - I know there is no 5 lol). 6 does not light up at all.

So I think I have to advance or retard the stepper unit disc. That is why I asked where a known "zero" point is. But maybe there isnt one?

Sorry for my very bad attempt using half technically correct terms and being a poser without a schematic

#183 9 years ago
Quoted from wayner:

That's interesting DF. On El Dorado the 10 target bank is supported by two rubbers but with posts in the centre. I take it that could also be a mod on Atlantis to reduce the ball Strike Force particularly in the centre region.

There is one middle post at the 10 target bank on Atlantis. So double rubbers needed here. I have one extra so may as well put it on.

#187 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Yes, it should reset as part of the game start sequence. If you look at the stepper, you'll see that it has a standard setup of a larger 'step' coil, and a small 'reset' coil (the coils are on opposite sides of the baseplate). If you manually plunge the smaller reset coil, then the wiper should zip back around to the zero position via the return spring. If it doesn't do that manually, then it may be a mechanical issue (e.g., gunked up). If it does, but doesn't reset at game startup, then that coil may not be getting its signal. It's a switch on S and motor 2C (same path as Subtract credit, Ball Count reset, Play Meter increment, and 'A' relay, so if those are working, then those two switches are working).
The wiper disc has a specific orientation though, so be sure to mark a reference point if you ever take it off.
Now, when the chaos occurs, is the 'E' relay stuck on solid, or does it just keep activating/deactivating/reactivating?

The smaller coil when manually activated returns the cam to zero position with no problems. I do not know where the disc zero position is and suspect that I may have misadjusted it when I had it apart for cleaning. Poor photos sorry but maybe you see something amiss. Both photos taken when manually returned to "zero"

image-922.jpgimage-922.jpg
image-197.jpgimage-197.jpg

#188 9 years ago

It is too late tonight to troubleshoot those relays you mention DF thank you. I will get on it first thing tomorrow. One "minor" thing I have not mentioned until now is that the machine does free play as long as the credit step unit shows above 0, but it does not subtract credits, only adds (and keeps adding credits way past max credits as in past the numbered portion of the credit reel as I do not have a max credit post in the (yet ...working on it..it was missing when I got the machine).

I'm not sure exactly how the previous owner set it up for free play. Feeling like I've been sent into the corner back to 1 banana tech school not worthy of play (yet)?!

#190 9 years ago
Quoted from wayner:

You are right my error. I wrongly interpreted the rubber diagram and my Atlantis is yet to arrive.

No worries Wayner, I know you are just trying to help.
Hope your Atlantis machine is safe and in transit to you!

#191 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Yes. I see that your game is on High tap (on the transformer). You might consider putting it back to Normal, so save on unnecessary wear and tear (unless you have something less than 110V available for the game). Has nothing to do with the Sequence unit wiper though.
If the Sequence unit is not maxed out (e.g., on 3 or something), then does it reset at the game startup or still no? (Shouldn't matter, but just curious.)
Does the Ball Count unit reset and Play Meter advance on game startup? If so, then the path common to the Sequence unit reset coil is working, so would need to suspect the coil, or there's an open along the wire.

You Sir are a wizard! How could you see that high tap? I don't even know what that means. Why would someone typically move it off of normal? I'd really really like to double confirm that the sequence unit does not reset as you ask but I would loose valuable "pinball is neat" points with my wife (as I wake the kids and dog). Until tomorrow...
Thanks eh!

#192 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Yes. I see that your game is on High tap (on the transformer). You might consider putting it back to Normal, so save on unnecessary wear and tear (unless you have something less than 110V available for the game). Has nothing to do with the Sequence unit wiper though.

I will move the red wire over from "high" tap to "normal" this morning. Curious to see any difference.

If the Sequence unit is not maxed out (e.g., on 3 or something), then does it reset at the game startup or still no? (Shouldn't matter, but just curious.)

I just tried a reset and the answer is: Yes - it does reset much to my surprise. This is good! But I suspect to not the right place...why else would #6 not light up/advance to? As mentioned, the sequence skips #6 - goes from #4 to #7.

Does the Ball Count unit reset and Play Meter advance on game startup? If so, then the path common to the Sequence unit reset coil is working, so would need to suspect the coil, or there's an open along the wire.

Yes, at least the ball count unit does. I'm embarrassed to admit I'm not entirely sure what the play meter advance is - is that when the ball moves over to the shooter lane thus enabling the play field as "live"?

<edit>
more answers embedded in your quote above DF

#195 9 years ago

Thanks to both of you...I'm staring at this now contemplating a video before I unhook the pf again. Particularly the step unit disc positioning trying to figure out the rivet pattern vs the stepper shoes and trying to find my match marks. I cannot make sense of it peering into the cab and manually stepping things. I owe you both a frosty Canadian beer...or several. Will donate to this site today as good karma.

#203 9 years ago

The saga continues. DF those pictures help a ton! Confident I have the step disc aligned as per your pics. I switched the main red wire off the high tap to normal position with a good solder joint. Put the pf back in machine, connected the jones plugs fire it up for a reset only to hear the score motor happily turning and does not stop!!! I think my machine has been listening to the flip-a-card thread and has decided to have some fun with me vs me having fun with machine. Honestly... The lowest switch stack on the #1 score motor position produces a blue spark every time it is activated and the whole machine now sounds just like a printing press. Clackety clack clakety clack....

When the red wire was attached to the high tap, and when you pushed the coin door button for a reset, you would always get a loud buzz for a split second and the reset started (and completed). Never did isolate the source of this loud buzz. After I switched the lead over to normal tap, and did the restart attempt I noticed an absence of that loud buzzing noise. I always wondered if it was a normal sound, but since the machine reset ok,...?
Sigh.

#204 9 years ago

And then this gem in the back box. I just pulled the mystery black tape off ....figured may as well get all the cards on the table eh? Lol...

Green wire spliced to white and vice versa. I suspect something related to free play and or the credit step unit. In the old "settings" when I could play the machine, the credit unit would advance when you played it and won credits but also when you put a quarter in but never subtract credit like after ball 5 and you started a new game. Feeling way over my head ..humbling, but concerning..

image-585.jpgimage-585.jpg

#206 9 years ago

I looked around and the only relay I could see that may be trouble was the A relay and I reached in an manually released it. Then turned the machine on and the score motor stopped. I manually reeled up a score and then pushed the reset button....which it did this time no problem. However, could not start a game so then manually bumped the credit unit up by one, then was able to start a game, but another strange thing is that I've lost all my playfield lighting and the drop targets were dead although the advance sequence targets do score? I thought I saw a spark/flash or two so I've had enough for now.

I compared my original photo showing the sequence disc position vs where I have it now and I advanced it by only by one rivet.

Appreciate the tip to only introduce one new variable at a time. I will put back the wire to the high tap as it is the only variable (new) that I have introduced.

And yes, those spliced wires run from a jones plug to the mini stepper unit F, positions 5 and 6 if it matters. Time to order a schematic, pushed my luck way to far i guess.

#209 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

This early type of interlock relay likes to develop 'stiction' between the two plates. A good cleaning and some SuperLube on the surfaces that contact helps.

Yes, this relay has always been suspect and acting up. When I got the machine home originally, it was actually just sitting there unattached to anything. So someone before me was fiddling with it. It is larger in size and is physically different in appearance and action than the other relay stacks so I will do what you recommend (good cleaning). It looks like it actually has 2 mini coils.

#211 9 years ago

Hi everyone, best to you for the New Year.
I took a few days break from this project of mine but not before trying to get the machine "back to the way it was". I moved the red power lead back to high tap position, and also retarded the stepper disc unit one rivet. Both actions were not effective and just made more confusing issues so I really needed to step away from the machine for a break.

1) the stepper unit disc needs to be advanced one as DFs picture shows and as I temporarily tried. When I moved it back to the way I had it desvribing what happened when I reached 8 sequence all heck braks loose (as before). So that is an easy "win".

2) I'm wondering if I have done some kind of permanent damage by moving the power lead from high tap to normal, back to high? I tried looking for some articles and read the "high tap vs normal" thread and all the various opinions included. There is no "right" it seems.

I have checked all fuses and the N relay but no avail. Currently I have about 3 playfield lights on and only some of the targets work (score) and only the blue knockdown targets score and no sling shot action either. Bizarre to say the least. The machine is back on high tap feed.
WTH happened?

#212 9 years ago

The machine does not complete a restart sequence on normal tap....it does not reset the 10 bank of targets for example but it DOES make a nice smooth start vs the jarring "BRRR" noise when you push the restart button on high tap.

I'm really at a loss for where to start troubleshooting since I'm now dealing with multiple (but obviously related) issues. The machine does fully complete a reset on high tap, but now the playfield is mostly dead including lights. Really disappointed and wish I had only moved the step unit disc and not fooled with the transformer power lead.

4 weeks later
#215 9 years ago

Well this is a one month update.

Thanks to the pinside community, the machine is "done" ....ahhem

It plays the best it ever has and just gets better and better after a tiny bug pops up and then is troubleshooted/fixed. I'm getting better at following problems through before asking more dumb questions / panic / lazy. So if I can do this, anyone willing to learn can ....so buy up those old EMs out there! They are just SO damn classy in their own way.

I wanted to post an after-journey what I learned.

I learned to check the obvious and the re check. Duh, but for example my 10 knock down target bank reset (not resetting) was driving me nuts! I checked and re checked everything but took for granted that one coil had power , then so did the other and the fuses LOOOKED good. But the one dead coil fuse was detached under the metal end cap but hidden from view. No power to coil, incomplete resets. Dig out the MM much sooner than I did! I literally spent days on this simple problem. Mind you there was other things going on I thougt were related.

I have learned how to read switch stack blades appearance of what is normal. This can only come with hands on time I think. I had several under rollovers that were either totally out of adjustment not making contact' or way too close I think caused by stray fingers lifting in and out the Pf a 100 times. ? I also gave these troublesome blade contact a brief flex stone holding them closed.

Every stepper unit and score reel were just generally gunked up and required basically full disassembly to clean. As many have said , pictures before are so helpful from different angles. I have crappy overhead lighting so just seeing things and taking pictures to post up was tricky holding a trouble light and my tablet. Having a light stand is alomat a must and 2 good sawhorses. I put 2 styro pipe insulator things along the top of sawhorses . . Worked well as surgery table. I made my saw horse legs longer than usual so I did not have to bend over as much when soldering etc.

Having to give a switch a tweak or a clean every once in awhile seems just part of the deal, so better to be proficient / learn and not let the machine sit.

It is tempting to clear the pf but I'my happy with my decision just to keep it super clean and wax it every other month or ? Even after our latest binge of use I can see swirl marks showing up. I really need to get better waxes ...and will source when I'm go to a larger city next. Btw.. Do I really have to use Novus? Is it THAT good? I have a great carnuba boat wax but the "stripper" side of things I'm not comfortable with what I have on hand. Maybe after i do the cab re spray I will strip the pf. But I doubt it.. Lol..

#216 9 years ago

The machine still has a credit reel/free play issue that I will tackle. I actually want to set it back to take quarters only! So have to trace back some previous owner wiring but we have been having a blast with the game and need to keep on the positive pinball streak with my wife as I bought a second game basically unannounced and was really in the sh!t for a while. Lol (now). ..

I also received my cabinet stencils from a vendor and think? I'm happy with them. I really want better spring weather to get on with the cabinet repaint. It will look just that much more cool back to original colours! Can hardly wait. Got my spray gun all ready and got to track down the colours.

Sourcing bits in a small town for this machine was tough. Like finding tiny fasteners, lubricants, Polish even! Johns jukes sent me super parts, super fast, with Can $ so I appreciated that. Def recommend.

There is a coupe guys on here I plan to buy dinner some time if I can roll through the US on a trip. Maybe as part of a buying spree of all those unwanted EMs I see on you r CL listings for cheap.

#217 9 years ago

Have to work on the room and order of the pins...poor Atlantis in the shadows..

image.jpgimage.jpg
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 4.99
Cabinet - Decals
The Pinball Scientist
Decals
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Lincoln, MI
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
From: $ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
Protection
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
Pinball Machine
From: $ 12.99
Cabinet - Other
The Pinball Scientist
Other
From: $ 3.00
Cabinet - Other
Space Coast Pinball
Other
$ 12.00
Tools
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
Tools
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider BCpinhead.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-secrets-of-atlantismy-resto-thread?tu=BCpinhead and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.