(Topic ID: 178900)

[Old method] Surprised so many people send in nice BGs to be printed over, sad


By Otaku

2 years ago



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  • 59 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Otaku
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    -7
    #1 2 years ago

    [For the people that need an extra note - this is not by any means an anti-BGResto thread, this is a "wow, can't believe these customers would want these nice backglasses redone" thread.]

    Sometimes it makes me sad looking through the BGResto blog - looks like some people sent in some really nice glasses to spice up the colors a little from fade or just normal age, and due to the legal side behind it, all of the original paint has to be scraped off to print the new on the same sheet of glass, so they're not selling "new" backglasses - just upgrading your old one. The only way around it is to legally declare your glass was destroyed (but you owned one before), so they can print you a new one.

    I'd like to think some of these people just sent in the glass to be scanned and then took it back... but doesn't always seem to be the case. I would certainly prefer a near-perfect original with maybe a hint of fade over an imperfect reproduction, or any reproduction.

    http://bgresto.com/?p=1032
    http://bgresto.com/?p=105
    http://bgresto.com/?p=1536
    http://bgresto.com/?p=1576
    http://bgresto.com/?p=508
    http://bgresto.com/?p=1177
    http://bgresto.com/?p=1634

    Probably the WORST?:

    http://bgresto.com/?p=276
    http://bgresto.com/?p=210 *****

    #2 2 years ago

    Have you ever ordered a backglass from bgresto? The process may deviate slightly from what was described years ago.

    Bgresto provides an incredibly valuable service to the pinball community for backglasses that would otherwise never be reproduced.

    -5
    #3 2 years ago

    Oh, they changed it? Good to know. Yeah, I've tried to order and got as far as the price, spiel about the "binding statement that it was destroyed or", and I never did anything with it and ended up finding a nice original locally of all places.

    Though, with the way that Centigrade 37 description is written, it totally sounds like it was before the change. What's the new process? Sending back the old glass as well? Glad they worked out the legal logistics about that.

    #4 2 years ago

    Someone bought the pr.
    I doubt any original paint was scraped off.

    #5 2 years ago

    When and if you buy a backglass, you'll find out.

    -4
    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    When and if you buy a backglass, you'll find out.

    So it's a secret alliance kinda thing? That just makes it sound... less legal.

    But yeah, hopefully one day I'll utilize their service when I desperately need it (thankfully have had very good luck with getting games with nice backglasses, knock on wood), it seems like a great asset don't get me wrong. Glad they have changed their ways.

    #7 2 years ago

    why would anyone do that method? Glass is cheap. It would take more time and energy to try and get the old image off than it would be to print on a fresh piece of glass.

    Also, BGresto fuses a printed "translite" like image to glass. i have some of their work.

    -5
    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    why would anyone do that method? Glass is cheap. It would take more time and energy to try and get the old image off than it would be to print on a fresh piece of glass.
    Also, BGresto fuses a printed "translite" like image to glass. i have some of their work.

    I get that, but I was told due to legal ramifications it was a good way of skirting the system if the original piece of glass was used - due to the still-existing strict (and sometimes silly) Gottlieb & Williams copyrights regarding commercial sale (like this) of brand new products - legally, it'd just be refurbishing a used original one.

    #9 2 years ago

    You sound like somebody that bad mouths the food at a restaurant he has never eaten at . you are obviously misinformed.
    I have bought several Back glass from BGresto and I am very pleased with all of them. some were for games that with out BGR I would have no glass at all . perhaps if you had bought a few and had this opinion it might have some value.
    But since that is not the case you are nothing more than the sound of the wind blowing. Go back to your basement and find something real to complain about

    My 2c

    Sir Brian of Ortonville

    #10 2 years ago

    Why does it matter to you so much? If you're that concerned, you can email bgresto directly, and I'm sure they will be happy to discuss it with you instead of just wildly speculating here.

    #11 2 years ago

    Otaku, if you truly care about this hobby, I'd ask the moderators to just shut this down, or better yet, just delete it. You're local to me: I invite you to PM me so I can talk to you about it, or even come over and I'll discuss it in person. There's nothing illegal about what BGResto does. He's got one order on tap from me now, and I'm putting in another one in a week. It's a long wait for his work, but I order the glasses well ahead of starting a restoration. You prefer original, and I respect that. I prefer original machines over remakes, but I also like my restorations to look even better than factory. BGResto helps me do that, and I'd hate to lose him over something as silly as a thread making uninformed accusations.

    #12 2 years ago

    That's why it is called a "restoration"
    I have ordered 7 glasses from Steve & Clay and the product is great.
    If you don't like the process, don't order.
    This a hobby for them, they do it to help people with irreplaceable glasses.
    And since your the same guy who had a problem with PBR a while back, why is it not surprising
    You now have another issue with someone.

    #13 2 years ago

    I agree, shut it down. This complete fool is a true moron. He loves to start trouble.
    I hope PBR, BGRESTO and all others blackball you. I'm sure someone will inform them.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from gjm:

    I agree, shut it down. This complete fool is a true moron. He loves to start trouble.
    I hope PBR, BGRESTO and all others blackball you. I'm sure someone will inform them.

    Yeah Otaku kinda sucks, but what are ya gonna do? He's the future of EM collecting. If he lives long enough he's gonna get all our great stuff and he won't need parts from all the valuable vendors he's pissed off.

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Why does it matter to you so much? If you're that concerned, you can email bgresto directly, and I'm sure they will be happy to discuss it with you instead of just wildly speculating here.

    Come on Forceflow, that is what this idiot does, he likes to start trouble, you have got to be familiar with his posts.
    I say ban him, he's not worth it

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yeah Otaku kinda sucks, but what are ya gonna do? He's the future of EM collecting. If he lives long enough he's gonna get all our great stuff and he won't need parts from all the valuable vendors he's pissed off.

    The funny thing is, you and I have forgotten more than that idiot will ever know

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from gjm:

    The funny thing is, you and I have forgotten more than that idiot will ever know

    Not according to him....

    #18 2 years ago

    I also want to point out that with 26 machines, there's going to come a day when you'll need another backglass for a machine. They won't be made anymore, but Steve could make one for you...but won't because of threads like this.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I also want to point out that with 26 machines, there's going to come a day when you'll need another backglass for a machine. They won't be made anymore, but Steve could make one for you...but won't because of threads like this.

    And guess what, I have his personal cell #, no BS. I'm letting him know about it.

    -1
    #20 2 years ago

    Jeez, just wanted to know if this still went on, not trying to bash BGResto - didn't mean to make this an "accusation" thread, was just curious about the process in detail is all just out of curiosity. Never saw a simple thread as a threat to their business, and I apologize if it did something like that. I just wanted to talk about how it was done and talk about all these nice backglasses being sent in. In the end even if they were scraped it's not necessarily their 100% fault, more of a customer sending in a nice glass pretty willingly.

    Sorry I'm such a burden to the group of people who do not like me around. I did not mean badly by creating this thread.

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I also want to point out that with 26 machines, there's going to come a day when you'll need another backglass for a machine. They won't be made anymore, but Steve could make one for you...but won't because of threads like this.

    Of course there will be! And I said above I am glad the asset is around. I never meant this to be a thread against BGResto... ugh.

    #22 2 years ago

    Same apology about PBR, You'll never learn

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Jesus christ, just wanted to know if this still went on, not trying to bash BGResto - didn't mean to make this an "accusation" thread, was just curious about the process in detail is all just out of curiosity. Never saw a simple thread as a threat to their business, and I apologize if it did something like that. I just wanted to talk about how it was done and talk about all these nice backglasses being sent in. In the end even if they were scraped it's not necessarily their 100% fault, more of a customer sending in a nice glass pretty willingly.
    Sorry I'm such a burden to the group of people who do not like me around. I did not mean badly by creating this thread.

    I want you around! Look...it's just a rookie mistake. You're young, and I actually think you're awesome with all the machines you've collected and worked on. But if you want this hobby to survive, you have to be very careful about calling into question any of the few guys left that offer services to keep it going.

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I want you around! Look...it's just a rookie mistake. You're young, and I actually think you're awesome with all the machines you've collected and worked on. But if you want this hobby to thrive, you have to be very careful about calling into question any of the few guys left that offer services to keep it going.

    He did the same thing to PBR

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I want you around! Look...it's just a rookie mistake. You're young, and I actually think you're awesome with all the machines you've collected and worked on. But if you want this hobby to thrive, you have to be very careful about calling into question any of the few guys left that offer services to keep it going.

    I understand that and perhaps I did slip up by creating this thread. My honest intentions were questioning the actions of the people sending the nice glasses in rather than the business (in a "wow! look at this, kind of sad!" way like when you see a beat up machine on CL), and I guess I totally overlooked that it could be taken a different way.

    #26 2 years ago

    I know. I saw that, too. I give the kid a break because I did more moronic shit at his age than I can remember. Live and learn...

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I know. I saw that, too. I give the kid a break because I did more moronic shit at his age than I can remember. Live and learn...

    but there was no such thing as the internet back then. I think the big thing back then was something called...... Radio?

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    but there was no such thing as the internet back then.

    Dude! I'm 24!

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I know. I saw that, too. I give the kid a break because I did more moronic shit at his age than I can remember. Live and learn...

    Appreciate it. I was going to actually PM you the other day offering my help if you ever need a hand with something trivial like setting up a game or you've dropped a Monster Bash on your foot and you can't get it up ( ) because there are a lot of other people around me who are always willing to give a hand and I wanted to offer the same to you among others when I saw your location, but due to my spotty medical record and being in Pennsylvania half the time it's getting hard to commit to stuff so I never ended up sending it.

    Screenshot_4027 (resized).png

    The internet sure sways things. I like to think I'm a functioning member of society and not the classic "young fuckup he'll learn" kind of guy, but the internet can definitely sway the visual of intentions and I didn't see this coming at all. Oh well.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    you can't get it up

    Appreciate the thought about contacting me. What I don't appreciate is you reminding me how old I am.

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Appreciate the thought about contacting me. What I don't appreciate is you reminding me how old I am.

    I was unaware that was an age restriction.

    #33 2 years ago

    Otaku, I know this is unsolicited advice, but a lot of people in this hobby learned from lurking--reading, absorbing, digesting what had been read--rather than chiming in on each and every thread, forum and medium, no matter the topic.

    I know there is a desire to be heard, to be seen, to be recognized....but sometimes I notice your comments would have been better off untyped and add little to the discussion. Or just downright piss people off (like this, and the PBR thread among others). I appreciate trying to move the hobby forward through discussion and you've got some thoughtful insights, but quality over quantity wins every time.

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Appreciate the thought about contacting me. What I don't appreciate is you reminding me how old I am.

    ROFL, while you'll need to consult a doctor for that one, one of these days you should definitely stop over especially if you're getting into wedgeheads. I find I'm much more personable in person - and I've admittedly been told the same. I don't think I'm as guilty for this thread as the PBR one - I think this was more of a accidental misunderstanding (as mentioned above) and an oversight by me (in phrasing or maybe just creation in the first place) but it is what it is I guess, Pinside can be brutal.

    So yeah, stop by sometime. Although a teenager offering you beer (I don't drink) is probably the last thing you want on a public forum, my uncle works for the Budweiser around here so we're usually pretty well stocked, mostly with a ton of weird shit nobody else at the house drinks (they do microbrews at that factory or something and of course the free stuff given to employees is probably the worst sellers).

    #35 2 years ago

    and you can see that beelzeboob and I contribute information that is thoughtful and insightful.

    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    and you can see that beelzeboob and I contribute information that is thoughtful and insightful.

    Well...you do. I just add comic relief.

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from spiroagnew:

    Otaku, I know this is unsolicited advice, but a lot of people in this hobby learned from lurking--reading, absorbing, digesting what had been read--rather than chiming in on each and every thread, forum and medium, no matter the topic.
    I know there is a desire to be heard, to be seen, to be recognized....but sometimes I notice your comments would have been better off untyped and add little to the discussion. Or just downright piss people off (like this, and the PBR thread among others). I appreciate trying to move the hobby forward through discussion and you've got some thoughtful insights, but quality over quantity wins every time.

    Sure, and I appreciate your sentiments. Although I have to admit my frequent posting is just more of an intense drive in the hobby (with a touch of too much free time) rather than giving a shit about being noticed. I grew up on forums and definitely enjoy a good discussion, even if it seems "pointless", kind of like this thread - and I meant well by it, truly, and failed to think over the way I phrased it and how else it could be taken.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Sure. Although I have to admit my frequent posting is just more of an intense drive in the hobby rather (with a touch of too much free time) rather than giving a shit about being noticed.

    Don't worry, your noticed. PBR and BGRESTO know who you are.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from gjm:

    Don't worry, your noticed. PBR and BGRESTO know who you are.

    Speaking of too much free time, thanks Columbo. Can you leave now? It's getting kind of creepy. I have nothing against the guys at BGRESTO or what they do - you misread the tone of the thread. I would hope that in the event I would like to buy a product of theirs that we could do a normal honest deal. This was not an anti-bgresto thread. This was a "I'm surprised so many people send in these nice glasses" thread in similar sentiment to the blog description on the Centigrade 37 glass:

    Sometimes people want a new backglass for no particular reason. We really believe this to be the case here. The owner of the original said the colors were faded. Perhaps, but the condition otherwise of the original glass was very nice. *****Almost a shame to replace it*****, but we did the work requested.

    #40 2 years ago

    Updated title from "[Method discontinued] Sad side of BGResto" to the current one to reflect on my intentions of starting the thread better.

    #41 2 years ago

    What's so creepy? You started the thread and your getting destroyed for it and now you start back peddling, just like your PBR thread. Word of advice, reread before hitting "send post". Your still wet behind the ears kid, I've been doing this pinball hobby for almost 30 years.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Speaking of too much free time, thanks Columbo.

    Just one more thing...Otaku...when you asked Pinball Resource to change the destination of your order for the fourth time, how did they respond?

    col (resized).jpeg

    #43 2 years ago

    I want a BGResto backglass for my Little Chief mainly because the colors are faded on mine.

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    I want a BGResto backglass for my Little Chief mainly because the colors are faded on mine.

    Definitely to each their own on that - just seemed a bit more of a "violent" decision back when it would cost you the old glass in otherwise great condition. For the price, I'd probably consider one for a faded glass as well now that you can keep the old glass.

    #45 2 years ago

    The problem with Little Chief is the reds fade so easily so even though glass is in good shape it looks really pale.

    #46 2 years ago

    You usually seem to want a reaction to things you post, but I'm never sure if it's the reaction you actually want...

    If you actually have a question, ask it in the form of a question. Don't try to get creative and influence an outcome, especially when you're only working off of partial information. That's what tends to get you in trouble.

    -2
    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    You usually seem to want a reaction to things you post [...]
    If you actually have a question, ask it in the form of a question.

    Well yeah, it's more of starting a discussion. Was it EVER meant to be about their business practices or the legality of what they're doing? Heck no, one complainer is not going to make them stop nor do I care to. It was about the original factory backglasses & the (very anonymous) people who send them in. Again, not targeting anybody specifically. Not some kind of movement or rally either, just a casual "yeah wow that's kind of sad, surprising, yadda yadda" kind of casual discussion you'd have over lunch if you stopped at a place with some pinball buddies.

    i.e.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sad-looking-woz-at-orange-lake-resort-fl
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/went-to-niagara-falls-and-saw-this-horror

    See: Casual, non-party-bashing discussions with no real purpose besides simple discussion and talk, apparently that's not possible though without calling somebody out like every thread needs a purpose or some kind of evil motive. Just talking. That's what a forum is for after all, and if that's not enough, this forum is indeed called "EM Pinball Hangout", I'm not spamming up the support or tech section or anything. I appreciate what you are trying to do but you are looking into it, and into me, way too deep. Sometimes this place can be so cynical.

    People took my intent of making this thread way wrong and I was shocked to see the reactions. Could I have possibly worded it wrong? Sure, and I probably did, and I apologize for that especially to BGResto (if they even would have taken any offense). But in the end the intentions are still obviously the same - discussing about original backglasses. Any mention of legality was solely based to explain why they would have scraped art off in the first place. What they do is their business, especially from a legal standpoint. Even if I did disagree with it (I don't), it is not my place to speak about that nor did I ever intend to. With all due respect I think you should re-read it or at least try to look into what I am saying right now. The constant ramblings, ravings, and anger on this site meant for a fun hobby have turned everybody real quick into jumping to conclusions and making things out of nothing. Disappointing.

    Otaku

    #49 2 years ago

    Don't get discouraged, don't stop posting. The question that you asked was entirely valid. As a (recently retired) museum consultant, I can say that such questions - restoration v. original, etc - are important and all views are valid. And anyone in the business ought to be able to accept such discussions as necessary - as quite likely BGResto would do. I've been playing pinball since 1959, owned a machine in 1978, and currently enjoy three machines - one of which you helped me, through Pinside, to get working. I recognize that despite your young age, you have more extensive technical experience than I will ever have. I value your input, and also your philosophical 'take' on the history, hobby, and other aspects of pinball. Keep posting, on all subjects, your (sorry - you're) doing a good job.

    #50 2 years ago

    The question wasn't valid because when you start from a position of not having facts, anything you posit after that has no validity.

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