(Topic ID: 224552)

The Right To


By SDM0

7 months ago



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  • 25 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by MattElder
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    #1 7 months ago

    I would like to understand who all holds the rights to pinball. How did Chicago Gaming Company get the rights to do the remakes they do of Midway/WMS? Do they get rights to individual games? Did they buy a catalog? What if a company wanted to remake Gottlieb games - who owns those rights? Does Stern still have the rights to all it's old games (ie: Meteor, Viper) and could they remake them? Who holds the rights to Data East if someone wanted to remake Tales from the Crypt? What about the rights to old EMs - are any in the public domain yet?

    #2 7 months ago

    This is all based on my understanding, I can't provide any source to what I'm saying.

    I believe Scientific Games owns everything related to Bally/WMS. Chicago Gaming made a deal with them. (Maybe Planetary Pinball is involved somehow, not sure.)
    Gottlieb IPs are owned by Gottlieb Development LLC.
    I see no reasong why wouldn't Stern have the rights to older games.
    Stern also have the rights to Data East games.
    The only issue they would have with remakes if the game in question was based on a license, in which case they would need to get the rights for that if they wanted to remake something.

    #3 7 months ago
    Quoted from LuxZ:

    This is all based on my understanding, I can't provide any source to what I'm saying.
    I believe Scientific Games owns everything related to Bally/WMS. Chicago Gaming made a deal with them. (Maybe Planetary Pinball is involved somehow, not sure.)
    Gottlieb IPs are owned by Gottlieb Development LLC.
    I see no reasong why wouldn't Stern have the rights to older games.
    Stern also have the rights to Data East games.
    The only issue they would have with remakes if the game in question was based on a license, in which case they would need to get the rights for that if they wanted to remake something.

    Iirc, stern should hold the licenses for “old” stern, data east and sega. Man I think the market would love stern to remake old stern games

    Does PBR have any license or do they just get approval to sell/distribute ?

    #4 7 months ago
    Quoted from SDM0:

    I would like to understand who all holds the rights to pinball. How did Chicago Gaming Company get the rights to do the remakes they do of Midway/WMS? Do they get rights to individual games? Did they buy a catalog? What if a company wanted to remake Gottlieb games - who owns those rights? Does Stern still have the rights to all it's old games (ie: Meteor, Viper) and could they remake them? Who holds the rights to Data East if someone wanted to remake Tales from the Crypt? What about the rights to old EMs - are any in the public domain yet?

    My understanding is that copyright rights never expire just like in arcades, but I'm curious too?

    All I know is Planetary Pinball currently owns all Bally/Williams rights (WMS 1989-2000) I believe?

    #5 7 months ago

    I think Planetary Pinball is licensed to manufacture/distribute at best. I don't think they own anything.

    #6 7 months ago

    I believe you're mistaken that's what I've heard for years, they may own Capcom too? Illinois Pinball had the rights to both sold them to Pinball Inc who sold them to Planetary Pinball. I think they leased the rights to just produce certain games with Chicago Gaming there. Planetary Pinball has a stockpile of nos wms stuff that would make a collector drop to his knees.

    But your absolutely right about Gottlieb I believe the rights have never changed hands and are owned by the hears of D. Gottlieb, from what I understand they are fiercely protective over them to this day.

    I wonder who actually owns Atari Pinball if it was a separate division?

    I wonder who owns the rights to EM or early SS Bally or Williams, Chicago Coin, Game Plan and Allied Leisure?

    #7 7 months ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Iirc, stern should hold the licenses for “old” stern

    That is usually the assumption, but is not actually the case. Current Stern does not own anything from Stern Electronics. Supposedly, Gary Stern's ex-wife owns it all, but I'm not sure if that's actually true or not or just a rumor that keeps getting recycled.

    Quoted from gmkalos:

    All I know is Planetary Pinball currently owns all Bally/Williams rights (WMS 1989-2000) I believe?

    Quoted from gmkalos:

    But still curious who own the rights to EM or early SS Bally or Williams

    PPS licenses everything Bally/Williams since their beginning from Scientific Games, who owns all the rights.

    Quoted from northvibe:

    Does PBR have any license or do they just get approval to sell/distribute ?

    See the various Gottlieb licensing details here: http://gottliebpin.com/history.html

    Quoted from SDM0:

    Who holds the rights to Data East if someone wanted to remake Tales from the Crypt?

    Stern does. However, the license for the theme is usually for only 3-5 years. So, a new license for the theme would need to be negotiated with HBO before a game or parts (with TFTC assets on them) could be remade.

    Quoted from SDM0:

    What about the rights to old EMs - are any in the public domain yet?

    Depending on copyright renewals on specific works, it's possible that the artwork for some games produced before 1964 may be in the public domain, especially for companies that went defunct before 1978. For companies that maintained their rights (Bally, Williams, Gottlieb), games released before 1978 are likely protected for 95 years after their release. So, for instance, artwork for a game released in 1965 might not be available in the public domain until 2060.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Duration_of_copyright

    That was bought up by Stern Electronics. So whomever owns Stern Electronics also owns Chicago Coin.

    The company went defunct, and it's unclear.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-happened-to-game-plan

    Quoted from gmkalos:

    Allied Leisure

    The company went bankrupt, was sold to an investment company in 1979, and was rebranded as Centuri. Centuri then later closed its game division in 1984, but continued with other pursuits. The video game assets were then auctioned off. I'm not sure who actually currently holds the rights.

    #9 7 months ago

    Wow Planetary is way bigger than I thought! Do they own Capcom too or did that go to a company in Australia (rumored)?

    73usqnthehpjw6g38f26hi775.500x500x1 (resized).jpg
    #10 7 months ago
    Quoted from gmkalos:

    Wow Planetary is way bigger than I thought! Do they own Capcom too or did that go to a company in Australia (rumored)?[quoted image]

    IPB (Illinois Pinball) was the last known company to hold the rights, but what happened with Capcom rights after IPB folded is unclear (though the remaining stock of parts was acquired by PPS along with everything else from IPB).

    Every time Rick (PPS) has been asked about Capcom rights, he has avoided answering the question. So, considering PPS is normally *very* clear on enforcing their Bally/Williams rights, PPS *probably* doesn't hold the rights to Capcom games and they didn't get transferred over from IPB.

    #11 7 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    IPB (Illinois Pinball) was the last known company to hold the rights, but what happened with Capcom rights after IPB folded is unclear (though the remaining stock of parts was acquired by PPS along with everything else from IPB).
    Every time Rick (PPS) has been asked about Capcom rights, he has avoided answering the question. So, considering PPS is normally *very* clear on enforcing their Bally/Williams rights, PPS *probably* doesn't hold the rights to Capcom games and they didn't get transferred over from IPB.

    Curious how Chicago Gaming was speculating on doing the BBB remake then and isn't Kingpin being remade now? I wonder if Gene is still in play?

    #12 7 months ago
    Quoted from gmkalos:

    Curious how Chicago Gaming was speculating on doing the BBB remake then and isn't Kingpin being remade now? I wonder if Gene is still in play?

    Pinball Maximus is reverse engineering an existing example of Kingpin, and as far as I'm aware, they haven't been given documentation on the game from a particular rights holder. Documentation they have is from a purchase of materials from IPB, such as a large archive originally curated by Steve Kordek--a lot of which now resides with the Strong Museum in Rochester, NY.

    https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/06/28/the-strong-acquires-pinball-archive/

    I have no idea what Pinball Maximus is going to do about permissions for production. They have already made and sold a bunch of translites. Maybe they bought the Capcom rights from IPB? Who knows.

    As for CGC, as far as I'm aware, that's just a rumor that had been circulating when people were speculating about possible remakes.

    #13 7 months ago

    Would Atari pinball be under Williams, as they had bought them ?

    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from chad:

    Would Atari pinball be under Williams, as they had bought them ?

    When did Williams buy Atari? Never heard of that.
    -Mike

    #15 7 months ago
    Quoted from chad:

    Would Atari pinball be under Williams, as they had bought them ?

    I never heard either that the plot thickens!

    I take it Sega is still owned by Stern that wasn't too long ago.

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from gmkalos:

    I never heard either that the plot thickens!
    I take it Sega is still owned by Stern that wasn't too long ago.

    Unless, I am thinking of Atari video game section. But you would think Williams would just grab all....

    #17 7 months ago
    Quoted from chad:

    Would Atari pinball be under Williams, as they had bought them ?

    Atari's pinball division was shut down.

    The video game division was later split from Atari proper into Atari Games.

    The history of a Atari is a bit convoluted as it got bought, sold, split apart, renamed, and changed hands a number of times.

    However, at no time did Williams ever grab onto Atari. However, what I think you might be referencing is Steve Ritchie--he started at Atari, and eventually went to work at Williams.

    #18 7 months ago

    There seems to be confusion here. Scientific Games owns any and ALL rights to Bally/Williams Pinball. Planetary is buying rights for use from SG. For Gottlieb, ask the dude at Pinball Resource, he has his hand in that cookie jar. Stern, Data East, Sega are all still the same company with a different name. Stern Electronics was a different company but I'm sure Mr. Stern owns the rights or his ex wife. Inder, Mr Game, Gameplan, etc. who gives a shit.

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    However, at no time did Williams ever grab onto Atari.

    1996: Atari Games sold to WMS Industries (owners of the Williams, and Bally/Midway arcade brands).

    LTG : )

    #20 7 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    1996: Atari Games sold to WMS Industries (owners of the Williams, and Bally/Midway arcade brands).
    LTG : )

    Doh, missed that one. I was looking for Williams & Bally, not WMS.

    #21 7 months ago
    Quoted from Frippertron:

    Inder, Mr Game, Gameplan, etc. who gives a shit.

    People who have those games and are in desperate need of parts.

    #22 7 months ago

    Would the assets of Atari pinball still have gone to WMS , or was that just liquefied. Could not find anything on that.

    -2
    #23 7 months ago

    Still nobody knows anything about Capcom???

    #24 7 months ago

    Capcom and Alvin G. The latter , being part of Gottlieb, or separate entity?.

    #25 7 months ago
    Quoted from chad:

    Capcom and Alvin G. The latter , being part of Gottlieb, or separate entity?.

    Completely separate.

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