(Topic ID: 15319)

The Price of Pinball: A Study

By IndianaPwns

11 years ago


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  • Latest reply 11 years ago by Pintucky
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    Topic poll

    “Are you happy with the Pin Economy?”

    • Yes. 31 votes
      39%
    • No. 48 votes
      61%

    (79 votes)

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    There are 86 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 11 years ago

    Inflation. Deflation. Greedy sellers. Generous sellers. Rare. Common. New. Old. CQ. POS. Modded. Original...etc.

    The price of pins swings like a chimp in heat.

    PINSIDERS UNITE! We are in need of an equation, a working equation to calculate the INTRINSIC worth of a pin.

    What was $3,500 two years ago - is selling for $8,100 now (AFM that sold on eBay recently)! Is this a reasonable price? Yes/No?

    The pin economy is incomprehensible.

    We need to pick a good example Machine, gather some solid statistics, and trial and error this junk. One equation to rule them all. Here are just *some* of the variables to be included.

    - The Pinball Machine
    - Condition (Cabinet/Playfield/Plastics/Electronics...etc.)
    - It's History (Routed or HUO)
    - Modifications (Community Approved/Community Disapproved)
    - Autographed or not
    - Rarity

    *Sentimental Value is not a valid variable*

    DISCLAIMER: I am in total agreement with the saying "A pin is worth whatever someone will pay for it" but the truth is - some people aren't good at judging the value of things.

    Anyone want to take this venture with me?

    Remember, this is a search for an EQUATION for the INTRINSIC value of a pin.

    *I expect a lot of heat from/on this forum - just try not to get personal*

    Post edited by IndianaPwns : Clarification of the Post

    #2 11 years ago

    Yep. I'm sure you will have the whole world figured out in no time.

    I suggest add one more choice to the poll: -this poll is useless!

    #3 11 years ago

    Funny, your post is part of the problem. Just because one AFM sold for $8,100 it does not mean AFM is a $8,100 game. But as people keep propagating this info, it slowly becomes true.

    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    What was $3,500 two years ago - is selling for $8,100 now (AFM that sold on eBay recently)!

    #4 11 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    Funny, your post is part of the problem. Just because one AFM sold for $8,100 it does not mean AFM is a $8,100 game. But as people keep propagating this info, it slowly becomes true.
    IndianaPwns said:What was $3,500 two years ago - is selling for $8,100 now (AFM that sold on eBay recently)!

    Exactly! That's why we need to figure this sort of thing out. Why so high? Or is that high?!

    #5 11 years ago
    Quoted from wbradley:

    Yep. I'm sure you will have he whole world figured out in no time.
    I suggest add one more choice to the poll: -this poll is useless!

    I can't do it alone. I don't know enough about the damn things.

    Also, the poll is just a gauge. Very objective.

    #6 11 years ago

    Equation:
    AFM=$

    #7 11 years ago

    This should explain it all

    s_vs._d.gifs_vs._d.gif

    #8 11 years ago
    Quoted from Dewey68:

    This should explain it all

    Attachments s_vs._d.gif (8.8 KB, 0 downloads)

    Oh God...I knew this would happen.

    It's not as simple as that.

    #9 11 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    Funny, your post is part of the problem. Just because one AFM sold for $8,100 it does not mean AFM is a $8,100 game. But as people keep propagating this info, it slowly becomes true.
    IndianaPwns said:What was $3,500 two years ago - is selling for $8,100 now (AFM that sold on eBay recently)!

    You're right. That one was a beater so $10K is probably more accurate. That was a joke, although i'm sure you got that.

    #10 11 years ago

    I love it! Doh!

    #11 11 years ago

    The internet has a huge effect on prices. As people freak out on the internet "OMG, it's a $10K game now," and "OMG, they are getting so hard to find," it's created a frenzy. That's part of the problem.

    Stern's prices on new pins have had an effect.

    Lot's of new people coming into the hobby has had an effect.

    However, keep in mind it was Jersey Jack that raised the bar in terms of new pin pricing.

    #12 11 years ago
    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    We are in need of an equation, a working equation to calculate the general worth of a pin.

    Perception cannot be calculated. Whenever your dealing with emotion and desire mathmatics cannot apply. All it takes is a few motivated buyers with deep pockets in a well publicized auction to throw your figures all out of wack. By figures, I mean a formula that would tell you what a specific title would be worth. When the average collector (actively looking for a specific pin)see's a handful of pins they want, go for an outrageous amount it can, does and has caused a chain reaction. Makes people hunting a title feel like they have to jump on the next one, especially if it comes in at a lower price than the one's that went for big money.

    #13 11 years ago
    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    Exactly! We need to figure this sort of thing out. Why so high?

    Speculation (as someone has said), ratings, availability - All of these things act on "demand". What some people forget about demand, it doesn't necessarily reflect the accurate worth of an item, just the current market price.

    It looks to me like you're trying to create a model that will estimate the intrinsic value of a pin? Or are you trying to determine causality of current market price?

    The intrinsic value is what you should be more interested in. It's not an easy figure to come up with. If you're able to determine something like that you'd be better served playing the stock market. Anyone that can reliably determine intrinsic value KNOWS what something is worth. They watch the current market price to fall below, and buy. Then, when the market price rises above, they sell.

    AFM is not an 8100 game, we know that. Everyone has said it, so it's current market price is ABOVE it's instrinsic value.. SELL!.. Hopefully people will, as stated above part of the formula is availability. If you really really want an AFM, you know that they do not come up for sale all that often. Every time one does, the price climbs due to few being available. If the market price climbs high enough, more people SHOULD sell. With more becoming available, eventually some will go unsold at that price, reducing the market price.

    This, is of course holding some assumptions (a must in economics since we can never truly hold all externalities constant).

    People holding pins for investments is similar to what happened to oil - then you throw in speculation as a MAJOR contributor to market price. (by the way, demand for fuel dropped for the first time in 5 months due to INFLATED prices)

    #14 11 years ago
    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    Dewey68 said:This should explain it all
    Attachments s_vs._d.gif (8.8 KB, 0 downloads)

    Oh God...I knew this would happen.
    It's not as simple as that.

    No, it is as simple as that. Now, what influences demand, may not be so simple. Myself and a group of pinball collectors have recently scooped up every Gilligan's Island we could find, and will soon be artificially influencing the demand by talking it up in every pinball forum and creating fake users to give it all 10's on every pinball ranking site we can find! Mwahahahahahahahaha!

    #15 11 years ago

    Dewey graph is also spot on. factor that in with a frenzy, mob mentality and you have your pinball economy. Which is only predictable, in that prices will rise for some time to come (IMHO).

    #16 11 years ago

    Hold on...I think I got it....

    math_equation_editor.jpgmath_equation_editor.jpg

    #17 11 years ago
    Quoted from Dewey68:

    IndianaPwns said:Dewey68 said:This should explain it all
    Attachments s_vs._d.gif (8.8 KB, 0 downloads)
    Oh God...I knew this would happen.
    It's not as simple as that.
    No, it is as simple as that. Now, what influences demand, may not be so simple. Myself and a group of pinball collectors have recently scooped up every Gilligan's Island we could find, and will soon be artificially influencing the demand by talking it up in every pinball forum and creating fake users to give it all 10's on every pinball ranking site we can find! Mwahahahahahahahaha!

    HAHAHA! Oh God No!

    #18 11 years ago
    Quoted from Dewey68:

    and will soon be artificially influencing the demand by talking it up in every pinball forum and creating fake users to give it all 10's on every pinball ranking site we can find! Mwahahahahahahahaha!

    A scary future in which all games have Chicago prices, the horror!!!

    #19 11 years ago

    Interesting thought IP

    I think if considering a equation you would have to include it's rating say pinside top 100 and quality, and if it is a ss or dmd etc because what dewey says doesn't aways apply. Look at TAF! Massive production numbers but still pricey especially here in aus.

    #20 11 years ago
    Quoted from Dewey68:

    No, it is as simple as that. Now, what influences demand, may not be so simple. Myself and a group of pinball collectors have recently scooped up every Gilligan's Island we could find, and will soon be artificially influencing the demand by talking it up in every pinball forum and creating fake users to give it all 10's on every pinball ranking site we can find! Mwahahahahahahahaha

    If you get enough of guys together , you definitely could do it. You could also advertise games you don't have at outrageous prices and when somebody inquires, tell them it's sold. Do this every month or so and sooner or later Gilligans are an even swap for MM. Looks like I figured out a way to get another MM, I just have to get myself a Gilligan first.

    #21 11 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    IndianaPwns said:Exactly! We need to figure this sort of thing out. Why so high?
    Speculation (as someone has said), ratings, availability - All of these things act on "demand". What some people forget about demand, it doesn't necessarily reflect the accurate worth of an item, just the current market price.
    It looks to me like you're trying to create a model that will estimate the intrinsic value of a pin? Or are you trying to determine causality of current market price?
    The intrinsic value is what you should be more interested in. It's not an easy figure to come up with. If you're able to determine something like that you'd be better served playing the stock market. Anyone that can reliably determine intrinsic value KNOWS what something is worth. They watch the current market price to fall below, and buy. Then, when the market price rises above, they sell.
    AFM is not an 8100 game, we know that. Everyone has said it, so it's current market price is ABOVE it's instrinsic value.. SELL!.. Hopefully people will, as stated above part of the formula is availability. If you really really want an AFM, you know that they do not come up for sale all that often. Every time one does, the price climbs due to few being available. If the market price climbs high enough, more people SHOULD sell. With more becoming available, eventually some will go unsold at that price, reducing the market price.
    This, is of course holding some assumptions (a must in economics since we can never truly hold all externalities constant).
    People holding pins for investments is similar to what happened to oil - then you throw in speculation as a MAJOR contributor to market price. (by the way, demand for fuel dropped for the first time in 5 months due to INFLATED prices)

    Intrinsic of course. REMEMBER I'm not looking for an answer. I'm looking for the equation.

    Take your average routed T2.

    Shop it. New plastics. Replace the decals.

    Is it worth 20% more now? 30%?

    #22 11 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    I just have to get myself a Gilligan first.

    What do you have to trade? We aren't selling them.

    #23 11 years ago
    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    Oh God...I knew this would happen.

    It's not as simple as that.

    You're right. It's like 90% that, and 10% the change that Jack more or less started with WoZ.

    Demand is up because of what I was telling people from the moment I got into the hobby -- people my age are going to start wanting to buy machines when they get a little older, get settled, and get the space for one of them. A *ton* of my friends when they knew that I had one talked about how they wanted one after they got a house and stuff too. Most of the new people I have met in this hobby lately are younger.

    The 10% that I put on Jack is that when he entered the game, he has both managed to make a ton of noise for himself so that people see his machine, and they remember how much they like them. Getting that little reminder of, "I want to own a pinball machine" along with the price point of $7500, suddenly owning that used game that you used to love from 15 years ago, TAF (or whatever) for $6000 and you KNOW that you'll like it, well hell, that isn't that bad of a deal at all.

    One trend (or lack thereof) that has surprised me at all is that we have not seen any DE titles really going nuts inflating (they were rather popular back in the day). Another is the rise in value of a couple titles (BSD, TS) that are good players, but have horrid themes. It isn't like all pins like that have gone up in price dramatically (DM, JD, lookin' at you).

    The other trend that has really surprised me is the whole trading pins thing. I personally don't get what is up with that, but then again, I'm a guy who tends to get games that I know I am not going to get sick of, so trading a title I know I want to get something else I know I want just sounds like I'll have to work again to get back what I wanted originally.

    I'd expect to see stabilization in the B/W prices within the next year or so. I would be really surprised if certain DE titles didn't shoot up in value some during that time, but you never know. When WoZ comes out, if it is all that and a bag of chips like I fully expect it will be, I think you could also see a bit of a correction, as the market goes, "Aha, so *that* is why that pin costs $7500. Wow, it puts my (insert title here) to shame. It's totally worth $XXXX more than this!"

    #24 11 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    Dewey68 said:No, it is as simple as that. Now, what influences demand, may not be so simple. Myself and a group of pinball collectors have recently scooped up every Gilligan's Island we could find, and will soon be artificially influencing the demand by talking it up in every pinball forum and creating fake users to give it all 10's on every pinball ranking site we can find! Mwahahahahahahahaha
    If you get enough of guys together , you definitely could do it. You could also advertise games you don't have at outrageous prices and when somebody inquires, tell them it's sold. Do this every month or so and sooner or later Gilligans are an even swap for MM. Looks like I figured out a way to get another MM, I just have to get myself a Gilligan first.

    This would be true if playing Gilliagan's Island wasn't the equivalent of consistently smashing your head against a brick wall.

    #25 11 years ago
    Quoted from Dewey68:

    What do you have to swap? We aren't selling them.

    Damn, foiled again.

    #26 11 years ago
    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    This would be true if playing Gilliagan's Island wasn't the equivalent of consistently smashing your head against a brick wall.

    It's all about perception. If enough people say it, eventually the general sheep mentality would prevail.

    #27 11 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    IndianaPwns said:This would be true if playing Gilliagan's Island wasn't the equivalent of consistently smashing your head against a brick wall.
    It's all about perception. If enough people say it, eventually the general sheep mentality would prevail.

    I agree to an extent, but the moment people get their hands on a GI - they realize it's just terrible.

    #28 11 years ago
    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    This would be true if playing Gilliagan's Island wasn't the equivalent of consistently smashing your head against a brick wall.

    You need to play it with the XXX Ginger and Mary Ann home roms in it!

    #29 11 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    One trend (or lack thereof) that has surprised me at all is that we have not seen any DE titles really going nuts inflating

    They aren't going nuts, but they are getting harder to find. It took me about 7 or 8 months to find a TFTC and I was searching aggressively everyday.

    #30 11 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    The other trend that has really surprised me is the whole trading pins thing. I personally don't get what is up with that, but then again, I'm a guy who tends to get games that I know I am not going to get sick of, so trading a title I know I want to get something else I know I want just sounds like I'll have to work again to get back what I wanted originally.

    Trading is a good way to capture value when you see it.
    I was saving money to buy a machine, I didn't have one in mind, so then I meet someone has got a very nice deal on a machine I'm not familair with. I buy it, and then decide whether I want to keep it or not. It should hold it's value, especially if you get it for a good price, so I might as well have "something" right now then wait for something down the road.
    At first I was unsure about trading games and it seemed a little weird, then I basically reach my limit of games, and now I've got to do something.

    #31 11 years ago

    Its good for pinball. And thats good for me. If people are willing to pay crazy prices then so be it. Dont sit and cry about it. If a price is to high for a pin your looking for then here is a tissue. I hope many companies start to pop up making pin's again. I have said in other post this is just the beginning of things to come IMO. I wish there were another 5 new companies making new pins. This is what most of us would love. The larger the market and demand the more pinball makers we will see. Whats bad about that? Now if we could only get the volume up on the pins in the wild....that would be something. (all in good fun)

    #32 11 years ago
    Quoted from IndianaPwns:

    I agree to an extent, but the moment people get their hands on a GI - they realize it's just terrible

    The title you use is irrelevant. The point is you could influence and artificially inflate the value of a pin with enough help or IP adresses.

    Quoted from Dewey68:

    You need to play it with the XXX Ginger and Mary Ann home roms in it!

    That's hilarious.

    #33 11 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    People holding pins for investments is similar to what happened to oil - then you throw in speculation as a MAJOR contributor to market price. (by the way, demand for fuel dropped for the first time in 5 months due to INFLATED prices)

    That is EXACTLY why I call AFM a "crude oil" pin - 100% why. AFM and MM are THE two titles that get milked like a cow on a dairy farm....

    Quoted from Honch:

    They aren't going nuts, but they are getting harder to find. It took me about 7 or 8 months to find a TFTC and I was searching aggressively everyday.

    Add JP to that list of "watch out - here comes the price increase!" list. Look how many people we have on a very consistent basis posting "FS" topics wanting JP.....

    Not trying to be a source of the speculation problem, but there is a reason I snagged a JP real fast...

    Quoted from goatdan:

    One trend (or lack thereof) that has surprised me at all is that we have not seen any DE titles really going nuts inflating (they were rather popular back in the day). Another is the rise in value of a couple titles (BSD, TS) that are good players, but have horrid themes. It isn't like all pins like that have gone up in price dramatically (DM, JD, lookin' at you).

    I'd expect to see stabilization in the B/W prices within the next year or so. I would be really surprised if certain DE titles didn't shoot up in value some during that time, but you never know.

    Yet again, to me, DE is a treasurecove of underrated pins at decent prices right now. DE machines are what B/W machines were back in 2001-2009 days - realistic and affordable pins. Then again, B/W machines have FAR MORE followers than DE. With 2 DEs and 1 B/W - I have always been for the underdog .

    #34 11 years ago

    The market is not there for 5 more pin companies...unless we're all going to get a few NIB's every year. They would have to be accepted on location again. In movie theatres, malls, on the boardwalk, casinos, bars, etc.

    #35 11 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    AFM and MM are THE two titles that get milked like a cow on a dairy farm....

    You're forgetting about monster bash. It doesn't hold a candle to AFM and it's higher in value.

    #36 11 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    Demand is up because of what I was telling people from the moment I got into the hobby -- people my age are going to start wanting to buy machines when they get a little older, get settled, and get the space for one of them. A *ton* of my friends when they knew that I had one talked about how they wanted one after they got a house and stuff too. Most of the new people I have met in this hobby lately are younger.

    I think this is very accurate. I'm 33 and I went to arcades all the time... now I have the means to get something I like because I can't really find anymore in the wild. I recently bought a beater FT that I've put time and a few bucks into. I've had a few friends already talk about how they want one and they all have the means to purchase something. I know they aren't like me in the way they'll probably impulse buy at a higher price than I would.

    Also consider some inflation factors. That $1000 pin from 2002 is now worth $1275 just based on the value of the dollar alone. Wonder if some people don't suffer a little bit of the "back in my day candy bars cost a nickel..." syndrome.

    #37 11 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    NewPinOwner said:AFM and MM are THE two titles that get milked like a cow on a dairy farm....

    You're forgetting about Monster Bash. It doesn't hold a candle to AFM and it's higher in value.

    MMM, yes yes good call. I am a bit careful about throwing pins in the "crude oil" bin too quickly - but yes - MB definitely goes there. AFM, MM, MB, SS - any other takers for crude oil pins ?

    #39 11 years ago
    Quoted from decktard:

    ....That $1000 pin from 2002 is now worth $1275 just based on the value of the dollar alone. Wonder if some people don't suffer a little bit of the "back in my day candy bars cost a nickel..." syndrome.

    AFM going from $2500-$3500 in 2009 to BS in 2012 is a bit more than any logical nostalgic syndrome I can think of ....

    Added !

    #40 11 years ago

    Ya know....I really like a game called Cosmic Gunfight. Just FYI.

    #41 11 years ago
    Quoted from Dewey68:

    What do you have to trade?

    Popeye. I hear it is going to be the next big thing after the Gilligan's Island craze dies down.

    #42 11 years ago
    Quoted from stangbat:

    Dewey68 said:What do you have to trade?
    Popeye. I hear it is going to be the next big thing after the Gilligan's Island craze dies down.

    Yes, I hear it's undervalued.

    #43 11 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    AFM going from $2500-$3500 in 2009 to BS in 2012 is a bit more than any logical nostalgic syndrome I can think of ....

    Yeah, but AFM is a pretty extreme case. Perhaps it was undervalued a few years ago? Hard to call 2012 prices BS when maybe the past prices didn't reflect the true value.

    I just don't think there is a single equation to be found. It is going to be based on game rarity, condition, rarity/price of repair parts, mods, stuff like that.

    #44 11 years ago

    MM and AFM are worth every dollar that they are currently commanding. I actually think there is very little speculation driving the prices of these up. They are both really great games so demand is going up as new people enter the hobby and want a great game. Subsequently, supply is going down and further driving price up.

    They are not making more of these and they were produced in EXTREMELY limited quantities from the start. There are even fewer now then previously as many got beat on route and have since passed on to the pinball afterworld.

    The nice examples continue to settle into collections. The crapy ones are being sent off for super high end restorations. It is very similar to limited edition art IMHO. When an image has mass appeal and limited quantities the price goes up. Toss in a sudden bolus of new collectors and watch out.

    There is no way to develop an intrinsic equation of value as we are all individuals that precive this hobby differently.

    Expendable cash and a new hobby for our generation spells ^^^^^^ prices for great games.

    #45 11 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    They aren't going nuts, but they are getting harder to find. It took me about 7 or 8 months to find a TFTC and I was searching aggressively everyday.

    I look at it this way -- ten years ago, they weren't very easy to find. Today, they still aren't that easy to find, but yet they cost about the same when they sell.

    TFTC is a great game, but it is hard to find. It has my favorite shot in all of pinball (the right ramp) and I've been kinda, sorta looking for one now for 10 years. While I have seen them come up, none have ever been in the price range where I would go jump on it...

    Quoted from TheLaw:

    At first I was unsure about trading games and it seemed a little weird, then I basically reach my limit of games, and now I've got to do something.

    See, you have a limit. I do stupid, stupid stuff so that I don't, at least not yet. I need a frickin' house to actually put the other 80% of my collection...

    Quoted from NPO:

    Yet again, to me, DE is a treasurecove of underrated pins at decent prices right now. DE machines are what B/W machines were back in 2001-2009 days - realistic and affordable pins. Then again, B/W machines have FAR MORE followers than DE. With 2 DEs and 1 B/W - I have always been for the underdog .

    This is because, in a nutshell, when people get into the hobby they are looking for the machine that they first got interested in pinball for. Back in the day, it basically worked like this...

    Gottlieb titles never broke down, but never made crap on route, so few people got them and routed them, and few people want them now.

    Data East titles earned well (I've heard the best) right out of the box, but generally imploded with problems very early on. They would end up getting replaced quickly because they would earn like crazy for three months until they broke, and then they would earn horribly while they sat off. Certain odd design decisions don't help matters at all (like if one switch in JP goes out, JP can't start modes no matter what you do).

    Bally / Williams titles earned decently when you set them up, and once you fixed all the issues after opening up the box (yes, ladies and gents, B/W titles were far worse out of the box than Stern titles, it was up to the ops to tweak them and make them work), they kept working and earned really well. So, they tended to stay out on route much longer than the other titles, and it was more likely your first experience falling in love with a game was on a B/W DMD, or if you fell in love with a DE, there was a good shot it would be broken three months from now and maybe pulled.

    That's why B/W titles get the love that they do.

    I agree that DE is a treasure trove of under-appreciated pins, but generally someone's choice is going to be the one they fell in love with in '94 (or whatever) followed by the new one that shouldn't give them issues.

    Quoted from decktard:

    Also consider some inflation factors. That $1000 pin from 2002 is now worth $1275 just based on the value of the dollar alone. Wonder if some people don't suffer a little bit of the "back in my day candy bars cost a nickel..." syndrome.

    That's a great point, but no -- it's definitely not all that. In 2002, I was doing this already, and I could have bought TZs all day for $1200 and TAFs for $1000 from various ops that were just hoping to clear up some inventory space. A lot of other games were just as cheap. Even accounting for inflation, it doesn't make up for the fact that the market has truly taken off.

    The one thing I didn't note though is a lot of buyers like to mod machines like crazy right now, a trend I personally don't really get, but that's cool -- it's your machine. When it comes time to sell that machine, they don't look at it like people did 10 years ago [flashback...]

    Okay, this decent TZ is $1200, this really nice one is $1400, this one where I put some cool marbles in the gumball machine and a couple extra toys on the playfield is not quite as nice as that $1400 one, so it should be $1300.

    Now, we're going, "Okay, I bought my Tron Pro for $4800, I added a flipper fidelity kit for $150, different light cycles for $50, EL wire for $150, the Tron arcade thing for $200, and a topper for $250. I don't really want this game any more, so I'll offer it up for, lets see here... $4800+$150+$50+$150+$200+250 = $5600... oh, but I put some time into doing these mods, so how about $5800?"

    10 years ago, you buy that machine and you do all those mods, and you have a $4800 game with whatever depreciation you got from opening it and playing it for a while. Today, who knows -- maybe you could get $5800 for it. Seeing what some other blinged out examples have been selling for lately, that doesn't sound too "out there."

    It's fascinating to see. Glad I bought 90%+ of what I wanted in the way of pins years ago. Glad I can deal with my arcade vids now, as those prices bottomed out a while ago and you can still get stuff cheap!

    #46 11 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    MMM, yes yes good call. I am a bit careful about throwing pins in the "crude oil" bin too quickly - but yes - MB definitely goes there. AFM, MM, MB, SS - any other takers for crude oil pins ?

    I don't think SS has experienced the same kind of price bloating as the others on your list. You can still find nice one's for slightly under 4k. Of course if it becomes a 7K pin, I won't be complaining.

    I would add CV to the list however.

    #47 11 years ago

    For the most part, Whysnow, I honestly agree with you. I can - *breathes and pushes forward* - START to understand AFM and MM going for what they go for within the pin community. What annoys me is that retailers post these games up for nearly identical price-tags and they are NOT in CQ/HUO quality (9/10 times).

    And - to be fair - this auction was a NR auction so it DOES reflect what someone is willing to pay on an open market. Now, was there bid shilling involved...? That remains to be determined, and we'll probably never know.

    #48 11 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    I look at it this way -- ten years ago, they weren't very easy to find. Today, they still aren't that easy to find, but yet they cost about the same when they sell.

    I remember when I first got into the hobby about 10 years ago, you could take your time looking at a pin. You literally could take few days and think it over or better yet go look at another pin for comparison. Now adays if you don't go look at a pin with cash in hand, your going home empty. Sometimes you may go home empty anyway because unscrupulous sellers, sell it out from under you before you get there.

    #49 11 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    You literally could take few days and think it over or better yet go look at another pin for comparison.

    Depends 100% on the seller, really. I knew people like that back then, and I still know of people now that will email me and say, "Hey, gonna sell this, interested? Here's what I'm thinking for price..." and give me time to go check it out if I'm interested

    #50 11 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    That's a great point, but no -- it's definitely not all that. In 2002, I was doing this already, and I could have bought TZs all day for $1200 and TAFs for $1000 from various ops that were just hoping to clear up some inventory space. A lot of other games were just as cheap. Even accounting for inflation, it doesn't make up for the fact that the market has truly taken off.

    I was submitting the inflation as a component of the value that may have been a little overlooked. ~30% over 10 years on a $1000-$3000 valued item is real money.

    Curious what B and C list titles were going for then. I mean... at some point TZ and TAF started to break away from the pack. If TAF was $1000 ten years ago... were B and C list games available proportionally cheaper? $300-$400?

    What were NIB pins at the time?

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