I don't think it has shown any indications of slowing. I'm amazed at the prices people are asking and getting. I'm just glad I'm no longer buying many pins...

Hey everybody the first guy to get 5 digits for an Elvira game is amazed how expensive pins are!

I keed I keed...

Just think how the Lionel guys feel. A rare set sold on Stouts auction for $178K plus 20% auction fees.

LTG : )

I'm new here and I am guilty for helping to pump up the pricing. I've always loved pins and coin-ops in general. I went out and bought my wife a skee-ball machine for mother's day and thought it would be cool to have a pinball machine to go with it. Found a nice Pinbot (I remember feeding many quarters to a Pinbot in my youth). Asked my kids to pick a pin to go with it, so I could have 2 of course, and feel happy knowing they were included in choosing how to outfit our basement fun zone. This was in May 2021. I now own 17 pins. WTF? Mid-life crises? I can't explain it but now I have fixers, players/collector pieces. I love to tinker/restore and play, and I see the investment opportunity. At least that's what I tell my wife! I'm also making up for lost time having had spent 14 years grinding it out to get where I can shell out on so many pins at once. I'm not the only one either. There's a lot of folks who have "made it," especially the kids who invested early in digital currency. This isn't the only reason though. As mentioned, inflation is on the rise and at an alarming rate. Why? The millennial generation is bigger than the Boomers, while the Gen X folks are so small they always get forgotten (that's me), so there wasn't any big fast growth for many years. Coming next is Gen Z and they are even larger. Pinball specifically is gaining in following because there are more people interested - because there are more people than ever before. Remember all the breweries that opened post Great Recession? So many of them have Pins and young people love to go out, so they are getting exposure, which wasn't really the case when I was in my 20s - unless you were in a big city. It was more pool halls than anything. There are also a lot of arcades opening that are aimed towards young adults, offering drinks & food. There's pin specific places opening up all over too. In Conifer Colorado, population 8,200, there is a pinball hall with 31 tables! Heck, I've caught myself fantasizing with the idea of a pinball country club (monthly membership to free play hall), but where will I get all the pins I would need? There's a lot of competition out there and I don't see it slowing anytime soon. At least I'm not going to. I can house another 8 pins currently..

Bubble is about to burst! Free pins for everyone!

My house would look like an episode of hoarders with pinball machines.

I negotiated a little after I researched the archived prices before hand. Did I pay more to get what I wanted right now? Yes, I did on about 9 of those pins, purchasing them from shops knowing full well roughly how much over I was paying. I'll try to be smarter and more patient going forward, but I tend to go all in when I start in on a project/hobby.

Thanks! I haven't been this excited about something for a while. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve, day after day.

I have not bought a NIB before but this now seems like a reasonable option rather than pay NIB prices on 90's pins. So looking forward to new title releases, even as they have bumped up in price as well.

Good memory, but that was a NIB SS. *Everything*, including EMs and C/D titles are crazily overpriced now.

People must be paying it though. It just won't be me!

When I moved to the house I’m in now about 7 years ago. I brought over 65 pins and 12 videos. It probably should have been on Hoarders. Didn’t want to sell any but finally brought my number down to 36 pins and 2 videos.

I’m still buying but I just won’t pay for the high prices. Sometimes I have to say no on a game I’m looking for.

Except if you find a nice Fairway

Pinball pricing is crazy. I think we will see it come down a little because everything is too frothy right now. We shall see.

Just wait till the recession hits. Taxes going up, rising gas prices, and inflation is about to smack us on the face. Not to mention the over priced housing market. Interest rates are already at historic lows. Lowering rates is one of the feds ways to combat a recession but those bullets are gone.

An economic recession will drop prices on pinball and other expensive hobbies tied to discretionary spending. Right now we are in the longest economic expansion. Usually you get a recession every 7 years. We are on year 12 or 13 depending on when you think the Great Recession ended. Not to be too much of a Debbie Downer but it’s coming folks, and then you will be happy with the lower pin prices

If people keep saying the economy is going to tank, and inflation is out of control, then it will and it is. This amazes me about public sentiment- if we all think its going to boom and take off, it will. So why is it so hard to just be hopeful about the whole thing and then we all prosper...

<John Belushi voice on>
but Nooooooooo...
<John Belushi voice off>

All the naysayer nancies make us embrace the fear and we all pay the price- higher inflation and a shrinking economy... so I say fuck the prices just spend people... spend.... spend... spend... for tomorrow we may all die.

Prices will continue to climb as long as the US Gov't keeps the money printer going "brrt brrt brrrt".

Inflation sucks.

Later,
EV

Prices were always “high”, relatively speaking. However, the big advantage 10+ years ago was the amount of projects & people selling games without knowing the “value”. Pins constantly popped up on Craigslist. I was buying games constantly, as I couldn’t say “no” at those prices. LOTR $500, TAF $2400, A13 $800, DE JP $700, Big Guns $250, etc. As long as you were willing to pick up & fix your own games, it was cheapie cheap. All of those games are now fixed up and sold by hobbyists back into the community. The inventory of cheap projects are more rare to come by.

It didn’t happen during the last crash. People with money & things like pin collections tend to not liquidate when the economy suffers. Only thing that tanks pin prices is tons of people liquidating at once & lack of buyers. Don’t see that happening. Maybe a small dip or a back off from some of the crazytown prices ($38k POTC) ...but general values of proven desirable games will generally hold.

Hey I didn’t say no I said “not yet”

That being said you might have to arm wrestle a few people in my driveway for it.

Once I’m done restoring my Atlantis Fairway is next.

As a "one pin owner", I find it interesting to watch what is going on from the sideline re: pricing over the last 12-18 months. Fortunately I'm not a buyer in the current environment, as it seems to be hyper-inflated, but then again it always comes down to supply and demand, and how badly someone wants a particular item.

Hilarious; Been hoping this happens for over 14 years!

I wasn’t on the hobby in 2007-2009. What was a typical Williams dmd game going for in 2006? What was the price in 2009? Not sure if the archived sales go back that long. Would be interesting to see.

Need to remember the previous economic downturn before 2008 was in 2002. Did that provide enough time to notice a significant difference in pricing?

My point was that we have been in a crazy long expansion that has been bolstered by low unemployment and interest rates, Covid, stimulus etc. This is a lot of time for prices to rise.

You will see a lot more for sale ads when the recession hits. If no one is interested in buying right away then the market will adjust and the average price will fall. How much it falls is the question. I think the days of a $2,500 NGG is long gone

Exactly. I've pointed this out many times; you'll never find a group of people more stubborn than pinball people. There are few things worse to a pinball owner than selling a game for less than they paid for it.

If there's another recession, they'll just do what they did last time: hold on to their shit. A major sell off will happen only if there's a legit depression/financial collapse, and in that case, we'll all have much bigger worries than our pinball collections.

Pinball prices have risen/held steadily over the past 20 years. There's no reason to think that's gonna change any time soon, regardless of the hopes and prayers from those who want to grab Scared Stiffs at $2000. It's just not going to happen, and if it does, well good luck. You're main priority at that time will probably be holding off the armed hordes trying to pillage your food supply not picking up a Robocop for 500 bucks.

Pinball bubble/pricing threads are always borne out of the desperate hopes that suddenly games will be cheap and you can snap them up. Well, there's literally thousands of people with the same desperate hopes, which is exactly why it will never happen. You expect all those people to suddenly go desperately broke and/or completely lose interest in pinball at the same time, while neither of these things happen to you?

Not seeing it.

Most working B/W DMD games could be had in the $1-1.5k range. Many top tier games like TAF, TZ, TOTAN, IJPA, TOM were in the $2-2.5k range. Uber collectable games like MB or MM were in the $4-6k range and that was considered premium pricing. Of course, fresh off of route games could be had towards the lower end or even less, whereas buying retail you would still be gouged somewhat. I do miss the days of people posting lists of 20+ B/W games for sale on RGP.

Most B/W DMD games were $800-$2000, with a few like Addams closer to $3k & MM & CC were the ceiling at around $5-6k...CC might have been a bit higher due to rarity.

You’re failing to realize who a recession affects. People who have pinball machines are generally well off, or well off enough that they don’t have to purge their pins for cash during economic downturns. Maybe some do, but it’s not enough to affect market values negatively overall. Let’s just say you want an Addams, and you want it to be cheaper. There would have to be hundreds up for sale simultaneously...it just doesn’t happen with this hobby.

Now, a recession could put a dent in new game companies. Stern was almost killed by 2008. But existing games that generally rotate amongst hobbyists (non-retail sales/trades) are not likely to be impacted.

But....it’s gotta be a bubble!

It’s just GOT TO!!

Pretty simple for me. These are luxury goods, and they don't follow the same economic rules as necessities. Free markets set the price and you either choose to participate or not. Sellers are able to sell for what buyers are willing to pay. There is no "right" or "wrong", rather, there just "is".

I don’t think there is a bubble. A bubble to me is that pins will drop 30-50% in value. I do think prices are inflated and a recession could definitely cause a 10-15% decrease in prices. This really isn’t that much. Just means a pin selling today for $3,500 on average drops to around $3,100.

The long term trend however is that they will continue to rise. There is just too many people that have entered the hobby. As Levi said everyone is waiting for a price decrease to scoop up some deals. While demand outpaces supply prices will always go up.

The only thing that will turn market pricing is the mass exodus of collectors from the hobby. Seeing as pinheads will live FOREVER if somebody is waiting for them to die in order to inherit their collection, or if people are waiting for the collection to hit the estate sale market after their death. So this isn't going to happen any time soon. Now, let pinball fade from our collective memories again, and when enough machines sit idle all day doing nothing but getting older than their owners, and interest in the hobby fades, then maybe, just maybe, you might see prices drift back down. Since this is a pipe dream, I need to tamp it down just right, light that puppy up and take a big draw just to get myself right again, because surely I am not high enough yet to believe anybody who thinks prices are ever going to turn around again. Hell, it's getting to the point it makes sense to enter the industry again, witness the rise of pinball manufacturers to meet demand. And everyone knows making pinball machines "is easy", right?

Hopefully I'll find something I like at Pinfest this year,and order a NIB. I'd rather order a NIB than pay NIB prices or higher for a used machine.Now if a game I wanted was HUO with very very low plays,I'd pay NIB prices in a heart beat.

As far as people cashing in on their machines,I really don't blame them. There's no way I'd sell my house today for what I paid for it a year and a half ago,so I don't expect them to sell their machine for what they bought it for. Luckily I'm not a collector,I just want a fun machine to play.

Just glad I'm no longer looking for a new house. The realtor I used when I bought my house a year and a half ago , says the housing market is brutal! She said she just put an offer in 75,000 over the asking price for a house,and she said she doesn't think she'll get it .

I don't know about everyone else, but as long as I can sell a game for near what I paid, if not more eventually, I don't mind paying whatever the price is. This is the only hobby I am aware of where it's like simply parking your money, not a money pit like most hobbies (presuming the ability to work on them yourself). Bang for the buck may be decreasing, but those bucks are still just as safe, as compared to owning a boat, say.

Just don't pay stupid money to begin with and you're fine.

Why are pinball people so stubborn about this stuff? Why would many of us rather lose our house than sell a pinball machine for $7 less than we paid for it?

This seems to be one of most self-sustaining hobbies someone can take part in.

I just sold/traded my 23rd pin in my 3ish years in the hobby (I trade pins alot). Today was my 5th first time pinball buyer sale. By my back of the envelope that would imply that 25% of pin buyers are buying their first pin. There are definitely more people coming into the pin than leaving it, and this will only cause the price of pins to rise.

You didn’t hear dude? It’s the summer!!

Pinball sales always slow to a crawl in the summer and prices plummet! Except they don’t that’s kinda something people made up 20 years ago and it’s a myth that persists.

MN and WI winters, lol

End of summer for pin price drops historically... New Jersey boardwalks closed down, old machines sold off instead of storing them for the winter, that was back in the 60's... very regional but it did happen. It was all about being new back then, people not wanting to see same old titles from last year.