(Topic ID: 290984)

Let’s Talk Pinball Pricing!

By wolverinetuner

2 years ago


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    There are 1,064 posts in this topic. You are on page 19 of 22.
    #901 9 months ago
    Quoted from arcyallen:

    I think the reasonable answer is "Lithiums practically never leak. It's just not a thing. Leave them there forever."
    I think the paranoid answer is "Take them out. The mere idea of a battery sitting on a board for long periods of time makes me nervous."
    And even as someone who's handled thousands of lithium batteries and have never seen one leak, there would still be that tiny voice inside me saying "pull them out". So, paranoia for the win! Also, they're expensive and are just going to sit there slowly draining.

    I vote take them out.

    I don't think it's paranoid. On the risk matrix, the occurrence risk is low, but the consequence risk is high. It's also not hard, or really any consequence to taking them out (high score/setting loss is about it).

    So I vote pull 'em.

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    #902 9 months ago

    Suddenly I'm in the EV thread with battery fire stories.

    #903 9 months ago

    May 31, 2023:

    Price bubble thread based on eBay sales data showing price for Addams Family declining in recent months.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-canary-in-the-price-bubble-mine-

    #904 9 months ago
    Quoted from wolverinetuner:

    May 31, 2023:
    Price bubble thread based on eBay sales data showing price for Addams Family declining in recent months.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-canary-in-the-price-bubble-mine-

    Yeah I hear you can get one for $12k now!!!

    That totally deserved its own thread!

    #905 9 months ago

    minus the 13.5% final value fee from eBay and the sellers are practically giving them away... topper sold separately...

    #906 9 months ago

    Yeah that thread is lame ass

    #907 9 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Yeah that thread is lame ass

    68 has been doing a ton of trolling lately, what with that dumb thread and his "Are you still masking" query from a couple weeks ago.

    Sometimes people get bored!

    1 month later
    #908 8 months ago

    The market seems to be getting more realistic. Pinheads or flippers seemed to easily buy NIB and sell for more even after playing it. Are we back to normal now, where you lose value as soon as you open it up and play it, like it was before recently?

    #909 8 months ago
    Quoted from wolverinetuner:

    The market seems to be getting more realistic. Pinheads or flippers seemed to easily buy NIB and sell for more even after playing it. Are we back to normal now, where you lose value as soon as you open it up and play it, like it was before recently?

    It's clearly heading back in that direction. JP is a great example - finding one below NIB was a challenge. Now they're plentiful. It's funny how when there's less inventory, prices go up, and when there's more inventory, prices go down. It's like the pinball market actually follows the general rules of markets vs "prices never go down!"

    1 week later
    #910 8 months ago

    Can we start to see the same downward trend with medieval madness? Really want that game but without any more runs, these used prices are just ridiculous.

    #911 8 months ago
    Quoted from cvgarber:

    Can we start to see the same downward trend with medieval madness? Really want that game but without any more runs, these used prices are just ridiculous.

    In May 2020, slightly over 3 years ago I responded to a facebook marketplace ad and picked up a Medieval Madness remake with under 200 plays... for $7,000. This one (I added the color chip, cliffy's and mirror blades). I regret trading that one for a TNA and cash. https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/102330

    #912 8 months ago

    So In other words: no. The games people actually want to buy aren’t going to drop in value any.

    But may I interest you in a Wipeout or Last Action Hero?

    #913 8 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    So In other words: no. The games people actually want to buy aren’t going to drop in value any.
    But may I interest you in a Wipeout or Last Action Hero?

    Last action hero! What an underappreciated game. So much on paper that comes together to be less than the sum of its parts. Sold mine 4 years ago for $2300. How much do they go for now... like twice that?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/81622

    #914 8 months ago
    Quoted from cvgarber:

    Can we start to see the same downward trend with medieval madness? Really want that game but without any more runs, these used prices are just ridiculous.

    I think you can almost build one yourself with new parts and a crap ton of time for around $8k can't you? Been thinking about it with a few games (TAF, IJ and MM) as they all are hitting around 12k. We should get a half dozen pinsiders together that want MM and build 6 together with everyone helping the others with parts of the project.

    #915 8 months ago

    Okay nerds... here is 5 solid years of pinball sales historical data I've added to my Pinball Ownership Matrix. This is what what I have bought and sold every pin I've owned over the past 5 years for, with the caveat I don't have the data for the games currently in my collection as I'm sure I'll trade most of them over the years. Please note this data is not perfect, and some of the sales are "trade value" and I am not including gas money, time, hotel trips at the pinball show, checks to Marcos/Pinball Life/Comet etc for parts. Without counting those, not counting the current games in my collection I am up $20,699 over the course of 5 years. I could have made more flipping burgers at Mcdonalds with the time I've put into it, but thats beside the point. Every transaction I made from August 2018 until March 2022 was profitable. If I stopped then I would have been up almost $25,000. However, almost every transaction since then has been negative. My most profitable transactions hav ebeen on the highest dollar games. Rick and Morty, Twilight Zone, Indy, LOTR, Godzilla, MMr, Goldeneye, and ST Pro. My biggest losters have been Flash Gordon, Nine Ball, Fathom, Deadpool Pro, G&R, CCR, and TNA.... Actually those are the only ones I've lost money on. However, most of those are since 2022. Of the games currently in my collection I'm about to lose my shirt on Xenon, I'm probably underwater on my P3, Bond Prem, and Elvira. I'm way ahead on STTNG (had it a while), Whirlwind, and Swords of Fury.

    Now... is pinball an investment? No! But if you are buying and holding for a while it has historically been relatively easy to get your money back out. The only games I had more than 6 months that I lost money on were Flash Gordon (higher end), Deadpool Pro (traded for / bought at the peak before back on the line) and TNA, which I've lost money one twice now. The second time I got it I got it to get out from under a G&R.

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    #916 8 months ago
    Quoted from cvgarber:

    Can we start to see the same downward trend with medieval madness? Really want that game but without any more runs, these used prices are just ridiculous.

    I told someone two years ago that the "prices weren't sustainable", and explained that I meant not the absolute prices but the gaps between new releases and older pins. Is a mid-grade 20 year old pin like Monopoly worth 80% of a NIB? I'm saying no. But at the time I was expecting those midgrade pins to go down. Instead, the NIB pricing has gone up and dragged the Monopolies along, just not at quite the same rate. And the really sought after pins have gone even more through the roof. Will a Medieval Madness continue to be valued at double a NIB? Again, I'm saying no.

    And speaking of MM, CGC has stated they plan to remake it. Granted, that was supposed to happen this year and that's pretty unlikely. But when that happens, expect those prices to come down. A lot of people will choose a $9k NIB remake vs a $14k original if given the choice.

    #917 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcyallen:

    And speaking of MM, CGC has stated they plan to remake it. Granted, that was supposed to happen this year and that's pretty unlikely. But when that happens, expect those prices to come down. A lot of people will choose a $9k NIB remake vs a $14k original if given the choice.

    They already remade this years ago.

    #918 8 months ago
    Quoted from Brtlkat:

    They already remade this years ago.

    I think they meant doing another production run.

    #919 8 months ago
    Quoted from Brtlkat:

    They already remade this years ago.

    Sorry, I should have said "They plan to re-remake it", aka make another run of it.

    #920 7 months ago
    Quoted from arcyallen:

    Sorry, I should have said "They plan to re-remake it", aka make another run of it.

    I plan to not give a shit.

    1 week later
    #921 7 months ago

    Market is definitely softening quickly. Some of it is self induced pain by Stern for incomplete code, but not all. You can buy some really nice LE games like STLE under $10k, CCrLE under $10k NIB, Godzilla LE, etc. The 007LEs that initially sold for $14k are selling for $10k and the 60ths have sold for as little as $13k. 9% car loans and 8% mortgages are hurting many people. Who knows what prices do long term, but in the short term I think cash will be king.

    #922 7 months ago

    For the past couple of years, an amazing number of non-pinball friends suddenly wanted to "get into pinball". They were stuck at home, had cash and wanted to be current and topical.

    This year, all I hear from the same friends is about their recent high dollar vacations. I suspect the wheel has turned, and pinball isn't quite the hot topic it was.

    #923 7 months ago
    Quoted from clodpole:

    For the past couple of years, an amazing number of non-pinball friends suddenly wanted to "get into pinball". They were stuck at home, had cash and wanted to be current and topical.
    This year, all I hear from the same friends is about their recent high dollar vacations. I suspect the wheel has turned, and pinball isn't quite the hot topic it was.

    I think there is a lot of truth in what you say. Unlike boats, cars, planes that had horrible supply line problems limiting production, pinball was available in sufficient quantity to meet demand. Vehicles are still staying high, but are starting to drop a bit. Most everyone needs a vehicle. Nobody needs a pinball. Will be interesting to see how many people stay in their new found hobby.

    #924 7 months ago

    It sure will.

    It seems like a fair number of recent ads read something like this: "I was going to restore this machine, but I just don't have time or enthusiasm.".

    If nothing else, pinball machines are a lot easier to buy than they are to fix.

    #925 7 months ago
    Quoted from clodpole:

    It sure will.
    It seems like a fair number of recent ads read something like this: "I was going to restore this machine, but I just don't have time or enthusiasm.".
    If nothing else, pinball machines are a lot easier to buy than they are to fix.

    This is also a very good point. I grew up around mechanical things and electronics long before the internet was a thing. Most young adults today don't even know how to use a screw driver. When these machines break they will be in trouble as the repair options available are very few.

    #926 7 months ago

    I was pretty surprised to see a Bond LE with plenty of good mods and under 100 plays get listed for $10,500. That's the best deal out there right now, IMO. Bond is a great game and getting better.

    Overall, however, some games are still fetching really high prices (LOTR, TSPP and BM66 LE/SLE, for example) while others have taken a dive (LZ, Mando, for example). JP and DP are seeing declines in asking prices and longer times to sell. STh is still selling quickly and overpriced, IMO. But, yes, it is slow overall and when one person prices to sell quickly it can cause others to lower prices as well.

    #927 7 months ago

    So what you are saying is that the secondary pinball market (used machines) has returned to much more like what it was before the pandemic and, exactly the same as it had been for about 15 years prior to 2019? I agree but wasn’t all this to be expected? So glad all these pinball pricing threads can be closed now.

    The thing that I don’t understand are those that try to debate and predict and speculate what will happen with pinball pricing in the future. Who da fuk cares?

    #928 7 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    So glad all these pinball pricing threads can be closed now. The thing that I don’t understand are those that try to debate and predict and speculate what will happen with pinball pricing in the future. Who da fuk cares?

    No insult intended, but isn't discussing frivolous, innocuous things more-or-less the point of all forums?

    #929 7 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    So what you are saying is that the secondary pinball market (used machines) has returned to much more like what it was before the pandemic and, exactly the same as it had been for about 15 years prior to 2019? I agree but wasn’t all this to be expected?

    It seems half the pinball world disagreed, and have said over and over and over that pin prices never go down. They didn't seem to think the stock market, mortgage rates, home prices, etc., actually affected the pinball market despite them affecting every other market.

    Quoted from snyper2099:

    The thing that I don’t understand are those that try to debate and predict and speculate what will happen with pinball pricing in the future.

    Replace "pinball pricing" with "markets in general", and there's lots of interest in that discussion. But when you combine that with pinball people, it becomes pinball market discussion. Unfortunately, more people want to belittle and argue then discuss, but I've come to accept that's the crap side of Pinside. I like talking about "what ifs", and pondering questions. Some people just want to talk at you. THAT is something I struggle to understand.

    #930 7 months ago
    Quoted from zimzam:

    I think you can almost build one yourself with new parts and a crap ton of time for around $8k can't you? Been thinking about it with a few games (TAF, IJ and MM) as they all are hitting around 12k. We should get a half dozen pinsiders together that want MM and build 6 together with everyone helping the others with parts of the project.

    This has never occurred to me, I know theoretically it's possible but are all the parts reasonably easy to source?

    This would be a really interesting project.

    #931 7 months ago
    Quoted from Bohm:

    This has never occurred to me, I know theoretically it's possible but are all the parts reasonably easy to source?
    This would be a really interesting project.

    Here you go - he's getting close. I think he is in over $10k at this point

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-scratch-build

    #932 7 months ago

    Been following some guys on here that have done MM using all new parts and/or used. You can spend a lot if you went with completely new but think you can do it for under 8k.

    Most parts are easily available. Ball guides with CAD can be made and bent fairly reasonably. Biggest obstacle is making the wiring harness not necessarily access to the wire.

    Search the forums. There are at least 3 that have posted their complete MM projects.

    #933 7 months ago
    Quoted from ClarkGriswold:

    Here you go - he's getting close. I think he is in over $10k at this point
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-scratch-build

    Interesting, but if there isn't more significant savings than that I just don't see the point, other than a passion project.

    #934 7 months ago
    Quoted from Bohm:

    Interesting, but if there isn't more significant savings than that I just don't see the point, other than a passion project.

    I can't imagine doing this if it WASN'T a passion project.

    #935 7 months ago
    Quoted from zimzam:

    For around $8K I think you can build one yourself with new parts and a crap ton of time.

    Quoted from ClarkGriswold:

    Shredder565 is getting close on his scratch build Addams Family. I think he is in over $10k at this point.

    That's 'cause Shredder first asked his wife if he could buy an Addams Family pinball machine, and she told him to go scratch.

    1 month later
    #937 6 months ago

    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but...

    I'm new here. Seems like pins are expensive. Any advice on getting started? How do I stop being so poor?

    #938 6 months ago
    Quoted from TylerTheTired:

    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but...
    I'm new here. Seems like pins are expensive. Any advice on getting started? How do I stop being so poor?

    Economics aren’t my strong suit considering I’m poor too but a good way to start is to buy broken and repair then resell and buy better. It’s definitely a grind though like any hobby or job. It’s slow. EMs (Electro Mechanical) are a great way to start in my opinion because they don’t require PCB or computer soldering knowledge and they usually pretty inexpensive for pins. though it’s debatable who you ask.

    #939 6 months ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    Economics aren’t my strong suit considering I’m poor too but a good way to start is to buy broken and repair then resell and buy better. It’s definitely a grind though like any hobby or job. It’s slow. EMs (Electro Mechanical) are a great way to start in my opinion because they don’t require PCB or computer soldering knowledge and they usually pretty inexpensive for pins. though it’s debatable who you ask.

    I echo the recommendation to go with EMs. They’re a lot of fun, generally readily repairable, and less expensive, often much less expensive, to purchase. There is a readily-available free resource on how to repair them:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm

    #940 6 months ago
    Quoted from TylerTheTired:

    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but...
    I'm new here. Seems like pins are expensive. Any advice on getting started? How do I stop being so poor?

    Well, those are two pretty different questions. And the answers will probably clash with each other!

    If you buy a newer nicer pin, it'll cost you a "lot" of money and you'll do some work to it.
    If you buy an older pin, it'll cost you less and you'll have to do more work to it.
    Don't plan on either option making you much money! But buying broken stuff, fixing it, and selling it for some profit is fun if you like the fixing part.

    As for "how to stop being poor", I strongly strongly (strongly) recommend mrmoneymustache.com. It is a life changing site. And no, he's not trying to sell you anything, just give you levelheaded advice. While I had already been doing much of what he talks about, it still changed the trajectory of my financial life and helped me retire when I was 42.

    #941 6 months ago

    Market is really slow now.

    #942 6 months ago

    If you feel like you are being priced out of the market but still want to try out different pins in the home environment, don't forget about temp trades! I've got a shiny new (to me) Monster Bash SE coming in tomorrow in a 3 month temporary trade for my Elvira HOH. Think of all the different pins you could rotate through your basement in exchange for yours while you save up for the next big thing.

    #943 6 months ago
    Quoted from TylerTheTired:

    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but...
    I'm new here. Seems like pins are expensive. Any advice on getting started? How do I stop being so poor?

    Join a local pinball league or group and get to know the folks there. You're much more likely to get a good deal on a pin from someone that knows and trusts you than via craigslist or FB marketplace.

    #944 6 months ago
    Quoted from TylerTheTired:

    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but...
    I'm new here. Seems like pins are expensive. Any advice on getting started? How do I stop being so poor?

    Turn to a life of crime!

    #945 6 months ago

    Hey @TylerTheTired,

    I played pinball for 50 years before I bought my first game - a busted EM. I won't kid you - it was slow going and stressful at first, as I couldn't have known less. But, good people helped me, and I learned from each experience. Now the machine and I love each other and will never break up!

    Some really knowlegeable guys put on a periodic online EM repair clinic under the auspices of Fun With Pinball:

    https://www.funwithpinball.com/learn/EM-pinball-online-repair-clinic

    I highly recommend you join that if you decide to try your hand at EM repair.

    Good luck, and welcome to the club!

    #946 6 months ago
    Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

    Market is really slow now.

    Yeah there are a lot of good deals out there right now. Nothing is moving. I think it's so bad that Stern pressured pinside to shut down the other pinball pricing thread without warning, lol.

    #949 6 months ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    If you feel like you are being priced out of the market but still want to try out different pins in the home environment, don't forget about temp trades! I've got a shiny new (to me) Monster Bash SE coming in tomorrow in a 3 month temporary trade for my Elvira HOH. Think of all the different pins you could rotate through your basement in exchange for yours while you save up for the next big thing.

    The other guy is getting a far better temp trade with Elvira, lol.

    #950 6 months ago
    Quoted from Thunderbird:

    The other guy is getting a far better temp trade with Elvira, lol.

    Probably... but I still get to play a new (to me) game and get Elvira back in a few months. The only "fair" trade for Elvira IMO is Batman 66. If this goes well we may do a temp trade of my STTNG for their Godzilla Prem or AIQ Prem early next year.

    Temp trades people. Get some time on new games!

    There are 1,064 posts in this topic. You are on page 19 of 22.

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