Nice to see this come together in an organized formal announcement!
Congrats and good luck everyone..!
Nice to see this come together in an organized formal announcement!
Congrats and good luck everyone..!
Lordy, this thread is already competing with the last one for being a mess.
Regardless of the rollout, and initial critiques and such, which are never a bad thing, I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans out. No reason to be anything other than optimistic! Even with the last Star Wars flick, I went in HOPING it would be good!
Keep on keepin' on, and such shit!
Quoted from stpcore:
Kaneda has been very clear on his podcast that he would never consider joining something like this and that he has no interest. I think he is doing just fine with the exposure that he has generated on his own. I don't see how TPN could help him or how he could help TPN. No reason to force a partnership between two parties that don't have interest in forming one. We appreciate his good luck wishes for the network.
If he joined a club, he'd lose a foil. That's part of the schtick. This is all for the sake of entertainment, and that aspect is part of his brand, being critical, among other things.
I don't think it would work for either party, to merge. Not in the least.
What a weirdass series of events.
First an announcement is made, Kaneda gets irked, then a female caster.
Now an improved formalized announcement is made, and it's getting even more thrashed due to viewed ineptitude and website trolling.
I don't even really listen to any of these folks all that often, in the past anyway, yet I still feel bad for their efforts being goofed on, devalued, judged before even one piece of free, fareeeeeeeee content is pushed out into the ether.
Man, the pinball world is tough.
Quoted from pipes:
It's actually awesome. I only wish I could take responsibility for it. Well done whoever you are.
Yeah, I don't get this take.
Many people are putting their time, energies and passions into something, and someone deliberately taking a dump on that, is a haha moment? Yeesh.
That said I've never understood when people trip or get hit in the face with things, (In real life anyway. The "ow my balls" segment from Idiocracy is pretty fantastic!) how people chuckle about that. Pain, yanno. Kinda sucks. That said, comedy is the delicate art of turning the pain of life, into amusement.
I may ultimately find all of this content unlistenable, and be more be more repelled by it than attracted. Doesn't mean I can't still try to respect their efforts, rather than deuce on them.
Quoted from pipes:
With all the shenanigans going on, I don't see that as being too out of line. It's an epic troll, just embrace it.
I started listening to podcasts to hear other peoples honest opinions about the hobby and nothing else. Will a distributor run podcast network actually allow for genuine and unfiltered opinions to be voiced. Let's be straight here, when business and the desire to attract industry people to your show or stream gets thrown into the mix then things start to change, and not for the better. When a podcaster all of a sudden starts using a devil's advocate approach or has to do a 10 minute song and dance to justify every less than positive opinion, you know credibility is out the window. Truthfully, I feel that SDTM, TWIP and SWL have all gone downhill since Flip N Out got thrown into the equation. Everyone is given the title of 'founder' now but we all know who the driving force is and the motivation behind all of it. I don't blame Zach. He's a smart guy and doing what he needs to do to grow his business but I don't think it's making things better for the people that listen to these podcasts. IMO, it's worse. That's the problem I have with all this. It's all fine but my choices for unfiltered opinions is reduced to Poorman and Kaneda now. At least if I'm ever in the mood for pinball comedy I know where to go now.
I agree with your tone and thoughts here, entirely, but I'll wait for the product first, then form my opinion afterwards.
I've also always felt, NO ONE, can make me buy a game even on salesmanship and charm.
Though there was that one stream last Valentine's Day with Deadflip, Eric and Gang. That damn stream cost me $9500! The game kinda helped too though....
Quoted from delt31:
It's not a schtick for Kaneda. Just straight forward no shill feedback. I subscribe to the same mentality regardless if the feedback is good or bad.
This talk about "with respect to pinball" just screams we're going to ass kiss all day BUT I'm hoping that the folks in this network won't let a distributor dictate their content as that's my biggest concern with this whole thing.
Again the more exposure thing makes no sense considering how small this industry is. These guys don't need a network. Some of these guys have been critical though on games (Jason's podcast) and I just hope this network doesn't make it shill 24/7. That's TBD but hey let's bring in the content and judge from there. This is just preliminary feedback based on Zach’s dumpster fire rollout. The network would be better served without a distributor spokesman.
In case it wasn’t clear before....I plan on tuning in bc I love pinball and I’m sure others who have been perceived as critical to the network will too. Again this hobby is so small but super passionate so you’ll have viewers..... the same ones who tuned in when you weren’t all together.
Schtick as in, the style with which he presents himself as a podcaster. He could definitely seem a bit different offline, here and there. Dunno, never met the guy, yet alone know him long enough to get a vibe for whether he exaggerates his approach for entertainment's sake. I mean....not a whole lot going on in the pinball world. Most people don't know it exists. I had a coworker just yesterday think my angry demonic flaming pinball Stern circuit shirt from 2018 was a bowling ball. Pinball just isn't on the tip of most people's tongues.
Speaking of presentation and such. I started lurking this site maybe a couple years back, and Zach was pretty beloved all around, seemed teflon from criticism, nuthin' but praise. 2 years later, after joining Flip N' Out for sales, and now this, and he's getting so much flack. Crazy how things can flip so quickly for people. Zach has always given off the babyface vibe, charming and likeable. Now, I've got to imagine this public is reaction is somewhat vexing for him.
I've got no skin in this game, but I feel more empathy for the dude than anything. I imagine he must be frustrated, and feel like his efforts, along with others, are being harshly shat upon before even one piece of media drops. This "community" does feel jaded at times, as does the world, and it sometimes feels like it wishes to revel in failure more so than achievement.
That said, I'm glad there are multiple approaches going on in the pinball media arena. We need heels, good guys, middle of the road folk, especially when this niche of a hobby is so damn small, and actual news happens maybe once a month or two.
Quoted from pipes:
I would hope that nobody is actually losing sleep over anything that happens on Pinside or pinball in general. To me, this is all just a distraction from the really important stuff that goes on in daily life.
.....really important stuff, like pinball!
I'm finding the lines blurred myself. Not sure if it's because I have no real important stuff, pinball is important or because those huge spots/plasma cell thingees on the sun posted yesterday via satellite imagery, are the size of Texas on average.
Quoted from ZMeny:
The Pinball Network Presents
The Pinball Show Episode 1: The Pilot
Congrats on the launch Zach, and subscribed and ready to listen weekly!
Quoted from stpcore:
Delt31 used "poison" when he described the content that was being offered. I found it ironic.
Reread things for context.
I think, assume he was saying he feels Zach's stance on Stern is poisonous to the industry, not he himself is poisonous to the interest of pinball.
Either way, no worries. People are riled up. See where the chips and content lie in a few months.
Edit as a result of reading this page...
I don't really feel anyone is personally attacking Zach. I think some are stating they feel there is a notable code of ethics breach going on, that they feel is construing his viewpoints in a way contrary to how he used to present himself.
That's not a personal attack, as much as it is a criticism of content format and delivery.
If there's been a shift people have noted, that's fine for them to wish to address. I feel people are doing it civilly, and that ideally that feedback can be taken and used or acknowledged and moved on from.
Even on a forum like this, we place ourselves out here to be validated and criticized, yet alone a larger format like SDTM or TPN. It's in the very nature of public presentation. Live by the sword, die by it. We all do, in some capacity.
Quoted from DakotaMike:
With respect, I guess you've never heard of cyber-bullying then? People have fallen into deep depressions, and even committed suicide, because of things that are posted about them online. Maybe for you, stuff that's written about you online doesn't affect you, but the same can't necessarily be said of other people. Do you expect a person to keep visiting a website where others are constantly writing bad things about them? It's not really fair that they either have to tolerate constant criticism and personal attacks, or avoid a website that they previously enjoyed.
It doesn't seem right to me, and it doesn't seem like an issue with a lot of gray area in my opinion. But a lot of people out there lack empathy, and a lot of people are unable to treat strangers with even a basic level of respect. At this point, I'm beginning to feel ashamed of the way a lot of pinsiders are conducting themselves. Makes me a bit sad. Ah well, whatya do? You can't control other people, only yourself.
Moving on, I'm looking forward to the latest from TPN. I think we're due for a mid-week episode tomorrow!
Who's personally attacked ANYONE here?
These folks have put out consumable media. And media doesn't exist in a vacuum, nor do we.
It's a new format, and I'd be more worried if everyone had nothing but praise, rather than what some people seem to mention, being one aspect of how things seem presented.
From what I recall, Zach is also a trained psychologist. I hope he has the ability to sort through some light hearted criticism on an internet forum. He also seems to have a nice support system around him.
I can say when things were highly critical before launch, I consistently stated when I felt unfair criticism was launched. Now that some shows have been put out into the ether, assessments will be made, and that's okay.
Everyone with TPN seems earnest and hoping to create some solid new content for people to enjoy, and also possibly disagree with. I wish all of them good luck!
To wit, Kaneda gets quite a good bit of demonization on this forum. Are you, asking genuinely here, concerned for his mental well being also?
I listened to about the first 30 minutes of the second episode of the Pinball Show. I wanted to get a handle on what the weird back and forth conflict was about regarding this thread.
I can definitely understand people on here being a bit irked as the first 8:30 is largely a gripefest about people......griping.
What seems lost on the main group of people that pushed forward with this network is that the entire notion was concocted in this weird clandestine way, where everyone simultaneously announced their departures from long, ongoing podcasts of their own. That very approach was sure to irk people. Rather interested parties could have all jumped under this new banner, and the TWIPYS, SDTM, Cary Hardy, Greg Bone and other groups and people wouldn't have been willing or unwilling casualties.
This didn't need to happen. And if growth is the longterm intent, of course intial breaks will happen before growth occurs, develops and strengthens.
I guess this all, at this time, seems more disruptive than harmony creating, for the time being. So the blowback in turn, didn't just birth itself. It did so via many people deciding some big explosion and then rebirth was necessary for pinball media growth. That wasn't the decision of the listeners, viewers and forum members here.
Inevitably there's only so much news, so much content to be created beyond just opinion. And I wonder if all of this might be shooting way farther than pinball has to merit such output.
As far as criticisms go, I didn't notice much advertising up front at all, and Zach seemed same as he always is as an online presence. Dennis seemed bitter and somewhat hostile, and Ken was as always a nice, balanced go between.
Overall it's nice to always have options, but I don't understand the desire to take all of this so seriously, when largely most of these episodes will focus on editorializing and general opinions.
Ultimately, good on everyone for making an effort, and most of all have fun doing it.
Quoted from TaylorVA:
It's not showering with praise or Fuck off, it's just realizing there are a lot of styles of content provider. To see people complaining all the time about what they don't like gets to be a drone that really just turns people off from spending their time to do this stuff.
It's not like this is a sacrifice for people sans possible gain. Ego boosts are pretty valuable in life. Makes you feel good, valued, like daily life has some meaning.
I never understand the "selfless" argument. There is definitely, ideally, gain. Networking, being recognized at shows for....talking, being known in a community you seem to value.
It's not an empty time vacuum for the podcaster. And it's not effortless either.
I did a podcast with a friend years ago, did about 30 or so episodes. We put work into it. It had personality, flow, thought...and a handful of listens. This on the other hand, definite "mass" exposure and a readymade target market. Bingo! Hence...the Network.
Quoted from delt31:
ssshhhhh it's free. Can't say anything.
Oh wait - is it free or is it also being used as a platform to advertise, shill and sell your pinball machines? How people who use this defense of being "free" can't see that amazes me but more importantly......
Folks bring up a good point about focusing on a solution. Great point. Here is mine and it's so easy.
If Zach was upfront and said what's going on, that he will be the company guy (stern, JJP, etc) b/c shit, how can he not be, he's a freaking distributor, I know I wouldn't even think about commenting b/c then it's just out there. No BS. He's being transparent and I would respect him for it. It's his business - I can understand that.
It's the I'm a helpless distributor just trying to contribute to the community shtick that rubs folks the wrong way. Just say I'm going to use TPN to also sell and therefore if I express my opinion it will likely be bias. I know he doesn't want to b/c he so desperately wants to have it both ways but he would come off SOOOO much more genuine if he did.
I listened to most of the second episode of the main show this week, and Krystle's today, didn't hear any advertising at all today, and I can't say I remember any on the other show.
Quoted from Darscot:
I just listened to the Plumb and she is clearly pretty nervous. I would really recommend for her to do what most of the big podcasters do and get an assistant. The assistant really serves very little purpose they occasional look something up or deal with some technical stuff. The real purpose is just so the host is comfortable and has some one in the room, just to help them relax and not feel like they are talking to the walls. It really helps things flow and for the listener it changes it from listening to a person talk to them self to them talking to you. People just take on a different mannerism and speech pattern when alone. When someone else is in the room just so you can look at them it comes out naturally. Overall I think she will have an interesting perspective and hope she gains some confidence and doesn't try and do it the hard way and go it alone.
She seemed pretty fluid to me. Just kind of a quick intro, not much to say other than general background and a direction. I'm sure it'll get smoother over time.
I'd assume guest interviews will address some of what you're concerned about. It's tough to freeflow, when direction is somewhat just...there, and direct content isn't a part of what's being discussed.
Quoted from delt31:
Yes I don't think everyone on the network does this. That's a great point and if that wasn't clear, appreciate you calling that out. My comment is very specific to Zach. Unfortunately he does so much blitz marketing for TPN, that he comes off as the owner/leader of it which is confusing to some.
No worries Delt.
I'd say just wait and give the pot more time to develop. There's content here, will be more, if you want it.
I definitely miss the SDTM stuff, but that faded a lot when Zach went into biz.
I listened to about half of the Guest Spot episode with Matt and Liz, and it's definitely a nice effort by them, but not necessarily engaging or entertaining.
It reminds me of standing in line at a baseball game or event, and you try to make polite conversation with the person ahead, just saying hello, and then you get a lengthy back and forth that just goes on and on, and you'd rather walk out of line and lose your spot then continue on.
Like I droned on about yesterday, opinion based podcasts or episodes are really challenging to pull off in an engaging way. They either have to be informative in some capacity or have a really dynamic and interesting back and forth between the hosts.
For this show, it sounded mostly like Matt was interviewing a female Bart Simpson with barely any interjection back and forth between the two hosts, just lots of "what do you think of this" style volleys. Which at that point, it's just someone's opinions, which isn't really compelling. Chemistry is the most essential part of any conversation dynamic, and this largely felt like a conversation between a couple that I don't know or don't really feel enthusiasm to listening in on.
I'd also maybe suggest capping these user submissions at around 30 minutes. Without literal content, it feels more fatiguing than fun.
That said, I do appreciate the effort of these two, and look forward to new submissions as well.
Walk away from this thread for a day, busy playing pinball ironically, and man I don't want to read threads "about" pinball.
Who gives a shit what anyone thinks about...anyone? People feel and think differently, and man I'd rather they do, than all drone on in unison and false harmony.
Going back to playing pinball.....
Quoted from stpcore:
Sounds like many of you missed the point of the pizza ordering discussion. I've got a huge smile on my face right now
Actually....his metaphor didn't make sense though. Zach came off as the one that couldn't be pleased, no matter what.
Don't order from Pizza Hut, unless it's a crazy craving and there are NO local pizzerias.
Use the app for big chains, always easier, hassle free, and more options.
Extra cheese, along with steak, seafood, or meatballs almost always counts as a double topping.
Deals ring up in their system. They can't alter them. So if the deal provisions aren't met, there is no deal.
Ideally...Zach needed to be a bit flexible, give Jake a break, and just toss on another basic topping.
So yeah, he sounded like a difficult customer, and then still wasn't a paying one, at that.
I understand Pinsiders are opinionated, (what forum or form of social media or person isn't) but in this situation he seemed the one that was overly particular and not able to be pleased. Which sounds like all of us Pinsiders.
Such a debacle!
Ultimately, as Kaneda says quite frequently, he feels many of his biggest critics ARE listeners. And really, a listener is a listener. Keeps your brand out there, your name in the fold, and really everyone that listens will enjoy some parts, others not so much.
It's akin to going to any movie. You go in open minded, or even biased one way, and you ideally leave with a unique, and new impression. Sometimes it's entirely critical, mixed, or nothing but praise. But inevitably, every viewer/listener needs to be able to be free with those impressions.
For me, you guys excel best at chemistry. Being able to interject with one another, and find a pleasing rhythm and tone, is the best attribute of any group of entertainers.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
Zach I've had the same thing happen to me with pizzas. Basically the problem was the person who took your order was a dumbass and no I'm not saying all fast food workers are stupid just so you know before you whiners jump on me.
I place an order last night for wings and she said it will be ready in 15 mins. I said I cant be there until 25 mins from now, can you have it ready at that time please? She sat and kept talking to herself trying to figure out how to do that and I said it's not a big deal just wait 10 mins before you start the order. She then kept stalling and thinking about what she needed to do and finally said....I will figure it out and make it happen. I felt like saying goddam go back to school you moron but I didnt want my wings spit on. These kids today cant count back change or anything.
Anyway what I was gonna ask you is why the F are you eating pizza hut when you guys have Pizza Kings all over Indiana???? That's like the best pizza in the world almost son, get your head out of your azz!!
I think you should have saved this story for a guest spot metaphor on next weeks show!
Checked out the second episode of the Plumb with Krystal.
I definitely like that she has a different vibe going on than the two other shows I've listened to so far. It's more relaxed, somewhat light night smooth jazz DJ kinda tone. Much less herky jerky and quippy than other casts so far, which is really pleasing.
Sans interviews so far, feels more like a spoken blog, and a private phone conversation I'm listening in on regarding her life. Friends, family, fans and such may be more engaged, but for someone that doesn't know her, and has no personal investment, I'm not pulled in by just hearing about a stranger's life.
That said, interested in hearing how things develop when some interviews occur, and if other ideas might be mixed in.
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