Dennis, true that video games release info about titles years in advance. But, games cost $39-$100 a pop. They’re accessible to nearly everyone, price-wise. Video game pricing is also throttled as a title ages…. And “manufacturing” titles, once designed, isn’t difficult.

Way different scenario when a game costs $7k - $15k… and you, as a company, banks on selling a relatively limited amount of games to a much narrower audience. Production time frames are long, and to be efficient you need to purchase and stock parts in advance - not to mention labor certainly factors into the equation.

The financial risk of customers holding onto cash in order to afford a specific title months down the road is greater, and would have serious impacts on profitability.

These are good points. I think the pricing is the biggest factor in terms of reasons why I might be wrong (and it better to keep titles "secret"), but I believe pinball games SHOULD throttle as they age. This propping up of the NiB sales prices (via distributor contract) is not how the industry always was, and is a form of false price control that causes more damage than I think manufacturers realize because if a company has a tendency to put out "bad" titles there is a disincentive to see their network order a lot up front (lest you get "Toy Story 4'd" and stuck with piles of games you can't sell because the used market's pricing is a lot better deal than the advantages of going new). If pinball continues to grow as a hobby I suspect pressure will mount to drop this (or they'll move away from distributors outright and can deal with the risks of pre-building and housing all those unwanted games).

The main thing, to me, though is I think people already hold their money out for certain titles. Distributors are known to keep what they call "interested" lists for all sorts of games. We know many of these companies leak, some pretty severely, and it is not unusual for us to know the games (in the form of rumor) years in advance. While Harry Potter for JJP was a surprise, we've known (really until Godfather, which also leaked out but much later) all the JJP games years in advance due to leaks. So, while I get why there is the perception that if the titles were announced everyone would just sit and hold their money, I think it just doesn't happen as widely as is feared. People are impatient, people want a new pin, and people start to buy after games get in the wild and they hear how good they are.

But of course, this is all very easy for me to say, it isn't my money on the line.

Thanks for giving a different perspective.

So …… I need a new pillow because I left mine at my sisters guest house a few years ago and haven’t had a good night’s sleep since. Can’t remember brand. What’s TPS’s official recommendation for mypillow needs and does it come with a guarantee? Do you carry them in FlipNOut store yet?

I agree that titles should throttle as they age, too.

I guess one counter argument to my points is that pinball sales, despite price increases, do not appear to be slowing. So, perhaps, the bulk majority of NIB buyers aren’t shackled by financial constraints and would spend regardless of what’s coming in the future - known or not known.

Also, just because a title is kept relatively secret, strong sales aren’t guaranteed. See: Pirates, TS4, Godfather.

There’s so many variables of influence!

Out of curiosity, do you think manufacturers purposely leak title information?

Don’t buy that over-hyped “Saw it on TV” crap. If you want a killer pillow, buy Pillow Fight. You’re welcome in advance!

No, I think some who work at the manufacturers like to troll and drop hints and stuff, but that's all just for the sport of it. Not like as an actual marketing strategy. I've always felt the actual leaks are unplanned by management. Now, that being said, I'm not sure if they actually get all that upset by it either, but I just don't think it's the official strategy.

Great episode as always...fun to listen to.

This post is spot on, I think the video game and pinball market, pricing and distribution is extremely different that comparisons make little sense.

What we need to hear is a good cargument that compares video and pinball markets.

But will add, that I don’t believe the theory of knowing H.P. is coming hurts anybody’s sales. It will affect a few people’s behavior but that is insignificant noise. People get into and out of orders all the time. Mostly because of impatience and they’ve decided to buy something else. That something might be a pin but often is something entirely different. The old object of desire was never really purchased (if one’s heart is not in it in the first place, did the sale even take place?). My takeaway was - $tart $aving or $elling pin$ to plan for H.P. in 2025. And if you believe multiple pins are coming, $ave and $ell even fa$ter. Kaminkow’s post was a public service announcement and confirmed JJP has the H.P. license. BOOM !!! Now, we just need JerseyJack to provide us with JJP’s intentions.

ZMeny - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was the reference that came to mind for 'the thing you obsess over becomes the thing that kills you'. It comes up fairly regularly in video games as well. Enjoyin' the podcast!

Craig Bobby must be quite the chameleon of disguise to get the scoops that he gets. He reminds me of a young Agent 13, on Get Smart. Of these, the sofa is my fave, it always gets me.

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ZMeny I do listen. Where else am I going to get the juicy industry gossip?

Pinball Party thankful part 2 - was a great idea. Positive vibes on top 100 pins from 3 “cohosts”. I’ve already listened twice and am going back again.

HP needs Metroid Easter Eggs. Maybe JP can stick Ridley in the background with the Dementors, or perhaps Samus's exoskeleton can be one of the giant chess pieces. So many possibilities!

It's actually Big Ben, not a chess piece. We've mocked something up and we'll see if it gets through the Heinz approval process.

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The preferred condiment of space pirates!

Hey Jason, fun show. not meaning this as a correction. But Flippers on the original WOZ were/are tight and snappy. You had mentioned re-running WOZ with the new flippers. The flips on my copy are perfect as is. Not sure when JJP turned to wet noodles, tbh. But I think they really nailed it 7 or 8 years ago!

Cheers, Todd

^^^ the other outstanding aspect about WOZ is it’s code depth. So much to achieve on 2 upper playfields. I remember the very first code available at shows. Lots of blinking leds that meant nothing and basic code. It would get better each code release.

Was proper thanks given to Kaneda for getting all the podcast hosts to hop on the Patreon bandwagon?

Thats hillarious!

Cannot wait to check that out today, thank you guys!!!!

Never ceases to amaze me how Chris is befuddled by why people think he's a douche.

Meh...It was tolerable until the last part...

I wish I could see Zachs' face when he was typing out this post.

It is... curious. I'm assuming he's on the proverbial spectrum, and yet I appreciate his sassy attitude when others are doing nothing but 100% butt kissing. The freedom by which he says anything without hesitation does become a bit tiresome at times, but you take the good with the bad.

BTW...you're a good sport for having him on TPN.

The latest Pinball Party was an entertaining listen but I think my house lifted off of its foundation with how much hot air that was expelled. Chris speaks a lot and is engaging when he does so, but a lot of it just sounds like bullshit to me. I'm not saying he is straight up lying but he talks at length without saying much of anything of substance.

The obsession with wanting to see behind the curtain is just weird to me. I get it, I am a curious person by nature, but these are private companies who have zero obligation to open their books for you to understand how many people are employed or what their manufacturing capabilities are. Sure, call them out if they make promises that aren't delivered but to demand to know this information? Entitled much?

It *is* all bullshit. The world unprofessional comes to mind... his "me against the world... I'm taking all the arrows" is also total BS. For years he's made it seem like he's the only one that questions product quality or CS policies, which is totally untrue. What is true, however, is that he's the only that treats people in the industry like dirt.

I guess some people like to listen to the trainwreck. Apparently 600.

You care too much.

Just calling it what it is - perhaps, you care too little.

Yes. I care very little about podcast content. Except when a podcaster screams in my ear.

This guy has done over 800 podcasts and I still see you complain about him every chance you get.

He has a point in that companies should be giving semi accurate timelines for when tk expect a product. And it may just be they are lying to get deposits.

But I totally agree we have zero right to see companies manufacturing capabilities and most other inside knowledge. But if companies continue to mislead about production we can certainly vote with our wallets in the future.

I do wish he would get off that train. I feel like way too much of his content is aimed at that stuff. Im a subscriber and like much of it, but the entitlement to see how the sausage is made is getting super old.

Kaneda has a long history of seizing on a particular game or topic and driving it into the ground by talking about it non-stop episode after episode. I've always appreciated his marketing perspectives, but his gameplay opinions are of limited value to me as he is simply not an experienced hands-on player overall.

I used to be an avid Kaneda listener, but stopped once he went behind a paywall. Not due to the cost - more so the increasingly self-centered attitude he seemed to develop as he became more popular.

All that said, I'm often tempted to listen to him again as he has an undeniable podcasting talent and he provides an alternate view of the pinball industry than that expressed in many other podcasts.

I listened from day 1 and I think was the first podcast I ever listened to. Stopped listening when it went behind a paywall. Paying someone to listen to them talk about pinball is the R word.

Rong?

The thing that bugs me about Chris is his selective memory. I laugh everytime he says he has no idea why he was 86ed from Pinside. His behavior on here went way past trolling, especially when he was drunk.

Robin gave him chance after chance but finally had enough when Chris started sending him threatening messages.

Retarted?

I don't follow what you mean here-- how prolific Kaneda has been with his podcasting doesn't really have anything to do with how people are allowed to react to him... If you listen to 3 or 4 episodes of a podcast like his, you start to get a pretty good feel for his character... it doesn't magically get better 800 episodes later.

You don't get a certificate and a new personality in the mail, as far as I know.

Yes, yes… then you complain about the complaining. Quite cyclical

I did not complain. Just giving you an FYI that you are a broken record when the subject of him comes up. That’s all feel free to carry on. I don’t give a shit.