That's a nope...

I really enjoyed the Pinball Tapes and the deep dive into Cyclone. And damn cool intro / outro music! Well done, Zac Coligan!

Just looking at these photos made me tired...

Well thats a hell of a response with supporting evidence - you sure you arent a computer engineer?

First time's the hardest, but it's not so bad. Hit me up when you want to go.

Computer engineer weighing in here, just wanted to highlight how much I enjoyed the "Fopto" portmanteau.

Remember the time Gary Stern came online to call Zach out? Usually manufacturers just send angry emails or text messages. Respect!

Some comparison nitpicks for nitpicks sake: Why is there no 'control' picture of the p3 playfield to compare the wall location to the other playfield pics posted? What makes your overlay lines not arbitrarily placed? Also I hope you are aware the various playfield screenshots are likely not all taken the same exact height or angle which could potentially stretch or shrink how a playfield is perceived in an image.

It seems best to pull the cad drawing of the playfield from the game manual. That would help with the skew of the camera angle.

I don't disagree that some designs probably come below the scoop wall, i'm nitpicking that your visual representations aren't likely accurate, just estimation. There was a post by someone who cut out a piece of brown construction paper of the p3 module and scoop wall area, and applied it to various pins physically, which was a much better representation for a comparison.

And here I am, thinking that all these new posts were in joy of another episode of Silverball Chronicles. So wrong. I feel so stupid!

You might like to try the Off the Record episode of Pinball Tapes that recently dropped. It isn't the same as Silverball Chronicles of course, but it does deal in pinball history so might be up your alley (just via a super game-specific format).

I'm not sure when the next SC will be (I've not asked Dave but he reads this thread he might give you an estimate... or he might not... one never knows with Dave).

And to think Joel was able to achieve Pinball Villain status without a single visual aid...

Realtalk: The playfield is only ~45" (including apron, flippers, backpanel, etc). A few inches is a big deal (heh), even if it feels nitpicky to focus on semantics.

Further realtalk: generalization is going to ruffle feathers in any niche hobby. Pinball is no exception. I totally understand where Gerry is coming from with his statements, but also understand why they'd raise Zach's hackles. Maybe a safer statement would have been "Hey, a LOT of key mechs/shots tend to be on the back third of the playfield." Maybe the statement shouldn't have been taken so literally on TPS either, though. Agree to disagree, maybe?

I did, and you upvoted me for posting about it this morning.

Oh, I have the memory of a goldfish. Have another upvote.

Ok, ok, you got me on the 100% point, Zach. 100% and ALL games/mechs were exaggerations. I even said in my post above that I500 had ramps starting an inch or so below the scoops (and WPT was included because it was 1 of the 3 playfields in the comparison Dennis did). Obviously [almost?] everybody knows not ALL games/mechs are confined to the area above the wall scoops, but thank you for eliminating that confusion. I actually think your comparisons kind of prove my point that most mechs are on or above the wall scoops. You clearly disagree. Either way, thank you for sharing them. One added note - the P3 also has about 2 more inches of length than traditional games; so there's also more room above your lines on the P3.

Your agenda is clear. "People think that because I'm not a dealer [anymore] I'm going to hate them and try to destroy a company." I wouldn't got THAT far, but clearly you spend the bulk of your Multimorphic discussion time expressing your negative opinions as facts. I especially enjoyed the repeated flipper rants, like "You can not objectively tell me these flippers feel good," followed by Dennis saying he has no problem with our flippers and your request to ignore streams with people who are used to them, because (in your words) "Once you get used to the feel of a P3 flipper, I agree, it's fine at that point," followed by more rants that you don't like the flippers after playing exactly 1 game on an updated flipper assembly at TPF.

To deny your agenda is disingenuous. You said in the podcast that transparency and honesty is really all you want from us (me?). I feel the same about you. I walked up to you at Expo in October, shook your hand, and explained why I hadn't been responding to your repeated requests to sell P3s again. I thought it was a good chat. You asked me to reach out if we thought there was anything you could do to help promote the P3.

Zach, you are great at what you do. You're in the business of entertaining and also selling products. You're great at both. You're extremely impressive at speaking too and shifting conversations around to push your agenda... MUCH better than I am. You use that skill to drive dialogues and sell your products, and you do it very well. You're also good at making sure you highlight a thing or two you like to try to mask your overwhelming negativity. I'm legit impressed and wish I were better at that stuff.

And yes, I know this conversation is likely to hurt people's impression of me and Multimorphic while giving you more content to discuss on your podcast. So let me just end with a sincere thank you for now calling the company "Multimorphic" and the machine "the P3." That's correct, and I appreciate you making that change. Hopefully people appreciate Multimorphic's efforts to continue developing a unique platform with a growing library of cool games and constantly striving to make the owning and playing experiences better and better.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

I found more proof!

*** NOTE: THIS IS A SATIRICAL POST ***

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Wait, P3 playfields are two inches deeper than traditional games? How is this the first time I've heard of this?

LoTR LE, Godzilla prem, Tron Pro, Ghostbusters pro, or TSPP. After my deploy to production is done i'm happy to take measurements and marker where things line up comparatively. If you want to submit pics of those listed playfield with lines where you think they should be, I can post findings and we can see how accurate you are. And since the p3 playfield is longer than a standard playfield, I would also be curious where you might want me to measurements from? I think the back of the playfield would be the most representative if you agree? And to make sure this isn't some kind of argument in bad faith, what insight are you looking to gain from my measurements?

Recording Friday it's a juicy one!

I don’t disagree with you. I’m just interested in comparing stuff like that and you seemed to want to make examples. Somewhere I have a bunch of those cad drawings in the manual of the Borg and Lawlor dual inlanes while trying to figure out what makes the Borg bounce side drain unique.

Why do so many arguments in this hobby result in a "measuring contest"? At least there is something quantifiable to measure here though.

And did you come up with a conclusion why the Borg bounce happens? We must know!

See? Now this shit is interesting and I'll have to go listen to the episode now.

Well done.

Zach, I have measured and taken pics of all but ghostbusters (too much stuff in the way to pull the glass easily at the moment) so if you want to post your lines for the other 4 games mentioned we can compare!

While we wait for that I will put this up first. I found this pretty darn interesting! So after I measured from flipper base to start of scoop wall for each pin, I took a measurement of end of scoop wall to back of playfield with LotR using a marker to note where the back wall starts, then measured the same on Weird Al. I found that LotR measured just slightly over 12 1/2 inches, wheresas Weird Al measured 17 inches! So while Gerry said the p3 is 2 inches longer than most, my measurement of difference was 4 1/2 inches from flipper base to back of playfield!

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Ok, so mis-measurement on my part! Gerry told me the supply closet (middle shot) on Weird Al extends beyond the general backboard of the module. So in fairness I measured my Heist module which is sitting out and its 15" from the start to the vertical backboard, so adjust that difference from 4 and a half inches more playfield to 2 and a half inches, Gerry wasn't just being conservative after all, haha.

I'm not sure what we're doing here? Obviously, plenty of games have significant features in the bottom 2/3rds of the pf, and plenty don't have them.

There are good games with lower pf features, and there are good games with mainly back-pf features.

So I mean...

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I've started and then restarted this message so many times haha. You are both right, you are both wrong. Gerry thinks Zach has an agenda and is out to damage his company, that seems to be the real root of the disagreement here. But even if that were true and Zach did, would this be the best way to go about minimizing his damage? Gerry word will get out on how fun the game is regardless of what Zach says.

I didn't listen to either of the interviews or this episode (yet) but I was thinking the same thing. Gerry should just emphasis that while you can't put a mech down there you essentially can put a shot anywhere down there and it doesn't block any of the shot angles, can move dynamically, etc. etc. There are trade-offs to everything.

Zach, WTH? You didn't open with Mark Morrison's Return of the MacK? You are slipping from your time off my friend.

So I'm back up in the game
Running things to keep my swing
Letting all the people know
That I'm back to run the show
'Cause what you did, you know, was wrong
And all the nasty things you've done
So, baby, listen carefully
While I sing my comeback song
'Cause she said she'd never turn on me
(You lied to me) But you did, but you do
(You lied to me) All these pains you said I'd never feel
(You lied to me) But I do, but I do, do, do
It is
(Return of the Mack) Come on
(Return of the Mack) Oh my God
(You know that I'll be back) Here I am
(Return of the Mack) Once again
(Return of the Mack) Pump up the world
(Return of the Mack) Watch my flow
(You know that I'll be back) Don't you know

I feel like the majority of my machines have stuff going on below the P3 scoop wall

Ugh, any mention of Deeproot by ANY podcast gets the 30 second skip button until the next topic.

WHAT?

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I found the Deeproot episode very interesting up until the point where the guest began to say "Like" like several times per like sentence for like long enough that it became like difficult to like focus on the conversation because like I found myself saying "Like" like every time he said "Like" which like basically had me like talking the whole time. Hopefully there were no major bombshells dropped in the last 30 minutes or so of the episode because I couldn't make it through the likes anymore. Love the Pinball Show though. Even placed my first FlipNOut machine order

Like OMG. That like seriously got on my like nerves.

Hi all, thanks for the feedback. Easy area of improvement to target for next time!

Here's a message I sent to someone who emailed me the same thing:

Totally agree. That was my takeaway after listening. First time hearing myself recorded for any extended amount of time, and it was being done while both of us were just looking at a mountain of new content. I was pleased listening to the next episode which wasn't like that and recorded the next day. Almost none of it. Which makes sense, because it was just relaxed reacting to stuff rather than trying to process so much new information.

Anyway, next time I do something similar my intention will be to keep an eye on that.

Don’t beat yourself up too much about it. Most of the Deeproot episode was really good and I thought you did good on the Pinball Show.

Thanks. I won't. Wasn't something of which I was aware until after it was over and I heard the ep. There were some other extenuating circumstances that made it more of a challenge, too. But not big deal regardless. And now that I'm aware, not something that will happen again.