I hear you, and I appreciate your point-of-view. And I get not agreeing with Zach on the JP topper issue; I didn't really agree with him either on most of his topper talking points. That's why I appreciate that he has Dennis as his co-host. Dennis often disagrees with Zach and/or provides a devil's advocate perspective on issues like the JP Topper. In this particular case, Dennis was very vocal about the issue, and even did a bunch of topper research.

So while maybe individually Zach doesn't always provide a balanced look at issues like creeping topper/pinball prices; when you include Dennis in the mix, then as a whole the TPS show DOES provide a balanced look at these issues. In my opinion anyway.

Agreed - Dennis does a great job. I think most podcasts profit from a co-host to break things up a little. I also like the correspondents - having a 5-10 minute weekly show with just the news would be awesome.

Yeah amen. I want Slap Save back.

That's Zach. He is always condescending

Interesting. Dennis provides a reasonable voice. He provided a perspective that I had not considered.

This podcast has led me to question:
- Do we need a hobby-wide revolt against pinball prices?
- What does the community expect or need from its members?
- Should we return our latest purchases?
- Perhaps we should present our purchasing intentions for approval in a peer review?

It's likely that I'm out-of-touch with the bigger picture. Perhaps a thread is available that outlines this movement and provides a quick resource for the community.

I think in Zach's world $600 is not that much money. He has talked about moving to a new house, building a inground pool (temporarily settled on a above ground) and having 12+ machines at home. Your perspective changes based on your income. I think Dennis sees the value of the dollar differently. Its all opportunity cost. The opportunity cost becomes less as your income increases.

Yeah posting on Pinside isn't a Herculean task

So then you actually know what the big deal is with toppers, and you're just taking the position of a rube and further acting out that role?

So that's why SDTM ended?

The martyr angle loses a bit of it's effectiveness after you just made an unboxing video posted in multiple threads jizzing all over the thing how sweet it is. So wait...this episodes Zach really doesn't love the topper, he's just playing Devil's Advocate even if he must suffer for it?
And I guess the unboxing Zach wasn't him either, but a symbol of the 'merican "go get'em Tiger" capitalism that made this land so great?
Is there a real Zach? I thought what hurt you most was people blaming you for not being honest and yourself and yelling that you were a salesman acting?
Dennis sounds like a dude I know and shoot the shit with...is he real, or is he also just playing a counterpoint role to open our eyes and teach us something?
What was my point in all this? I'm not going to lie l had a shitload of ice cream with the fam and I might be a little too wired at this point. Now you can see why I don't have a podcast; it would make 0 sense. MeanwHile you look super fit lately so umm, keep up the good work.

Any over the top screaming and yelling in this episode?

"Yeah amen. I want Slap Save back."

Do you even realize how much time and work goes into a 45 minute podcast? I was more than happy to hang it up.

Keep up the good work Zach! I love the FREE entertainment.

Kind Regards,
Kidchrisso

yes, but in good taste

Don't worry about the haters zack. None of this stuff is that big of a deal. Keep your skin thick and keep on doing what you do.

And you are who? Matt? Jason? Jason pmd me from a different account.

He is Mr Brickshot

listen to the first 18 episodes

Sorry, I came in at the end. Jason and Matt are awesome. Those are the guys I wanna listen to.

After helping out with Special When Lit and now The Pinball Show as a correspondent, I see how hard and time consuming it is to produce a podcast. The crazy amount of hours devoted to research, recording and editing each episode can almost be too much. Thank you to all the podcasters and content creators for all your time and effort.

As I see it:

Everyone here buys the games based on what it is in there from the getgo.
Stern did not lie or held off something from you people.

So, should have the Stranger Things UV Kit have been allready in the game? At least in the LE's? - Of course!
But it wasnt't and they never said it was. And what was in the game was ok for you guys to justify your purchase.
You could have walked the "Oh man, that one's empty, I pass!" route.

So for the topper...
...it's 200$ more then usual, yeah.
It has a new mode, wich may be not worth the extra, but if it's not, don't buy and you'll be fine.
But don't say "Oh man, you delivered an incomplete game"!
You got exactly what you paid for (or didn't - as me. I may have been interrested in Stranger Things Pro, IF the Demogorgon would have been tied to a coil like it is in the Premium/ LE, to act more like an enemy and not a sitting duck.)

I'd personally like to upgrade my game.
I want that LED ramplight for the BKSoR Pro and I was looking forward to the GB Protonpack beams that never were.
I'd like to be able to add that coill to the Demogorgon if they just left the code for it in.

I think Jurassic Park Topper had to be more expensive because the honeymoon with the game is over and if they only sell one run of'em that would have to pay for the added expenses AND the added code is a good argument to charge a bit extra.
You guys are allready in for the 400$ flat shaded pastic toppers, just think if the 200$ extra for the goat mode is woth it for you.

One thing Stern has going for their Toppers and Cary Hardy and Kaneda ignore is, that the lightshows are all interactive with the game.
None of the 3rd party toppers can give you that. And it can lift the thing to a new level. That Jurassic Park Topper looks like a fraud on pictures but pretty sweet when actually connected to the game.

And yes, Zach is a dealer. Todd Tuckey is as well! Everyone loves Todd (me included)...

...when did Todd ever say "this game is shit"?

(Well ok, he admitted people say Motordome is the worst game ever... but then went on to pinpoint it's strongpoints! )

Who knows anymore?

That's not actually my goal, though I know it ends up working out that way. I just give my thoughts or opinions on whatever the topics of the day are. I don't podcast with an inherent goal that opposite views need to be shown on topics. I'm fine with it, but I won't change my argument in order to achieve that outcome (unless it was a one-off done for the sport of it).

In this case I knew Zach wanted to spend a lot of time talking about the topper so I went ahead and researched the online discussions and wanted to examine the pricing to see if it *was* a notable increase (it is) or if it was more a perception thing. He didn't know I'd done it until we started recording. But I'd rather know than guess on things that are demonstrable.

I tend to operate in a relatively frugal way. Probably a combination of my own income level and how I was brought up. To me every dollar spent is weighed against everything else I could do with the dollar. I mean I don't even subscribe to Netflix because I have Amazon Prime and figure one video streaming service should be enough. I buy generic waffles and the store-brand potato chips. I buy whatever pop is on sale and can't even remember the last video game I bought for full price. That's just my nature.

This means I'm not the best voice to represent NiB pinball collectors. My outlook is just too different. But I think there are all sorts of people in the hobby of pinball and maybe a few of them see things similar to me.

DennisK ZMeny Hollywoodbone

Listened to this episode and watched your stream a few weeks ago (bamato) while I was quarantining in Florida. I really enjoy the content you guys are putting out and as I‘ve gotten more into the hobby from a participation standpoint on here and in watching video reviews from you guys and Buffalo pinball, it is clear that there’s a lot of negativity within the community as a whole.The whole Stern topper thread alone has been extremely divisive with a range of different takes as you pointed out and some people on the threads/ social media are downright malicious and make it personal which is really messed up. I also feel like the Pinball community should strive to be better, whether members agree or disagree with you or other people’s takes on various Pinball topics. This is a fun hobby after all and most of us love pinball otherwise we wouldn’t be here. There’s enough negativity out there and I think people don’t realize how much time you guys are putting in. One thing you said ZMeny that resonated with me which I think a lot of people are forgetting is that you do this because you love it. Anyway, bottom line is I really appreciate what you guys are doing and look forward to the content you guys put out in the future. Look forward to talking pinball on here, twitch or some other medium.

Fun fact ZMeny Back in 2011, when I was in college I wrote an email to JJP for a potential internship (no response lol) but it was because I was so intrigued with the development of WOZ and followed it closely from the early stage sketches on.

Hollywoodbone I’m an actor from New York and I also have my real estate license!

Keep putting out awesome content guys, makes my day.

I don't want to derail this thread any further, so this is going to be my last post in it. There's just some things I would like to clarify as I think not all my points came across as intended.

First of all, thanks for your feedback, I honestly appreciate it. However, this is just what I'm talking about. I cannot believe your position on anything Stern is motivated by your personal opinion or even by trying to present both sides of a story (for our benefit), but rather by your business interests. Maybe I'm wronging you here, but that's just the impression I get. Like all other manufacturers, Stern have their hits and misses. I would like to see that represented in a podcast. "Dennis as a counterweight" is a valid argument, but it doesn't consider that he also credits Stern when it's deserved. I'm not looking for two guys agreeing or disagreeing for the sake of it, but rather for them telling it like they see it. It has nothing to do with whether one's opinion is popular or not. So, again, kudos to Dennis.

If you're interested (and you understand the language), there's a guy called "Held der Steine" on Youtube, doing a German video series on Lego. It's a topic I couldn't care for less, but he's as engaging and entertaining as they come. The reason I'm bringing him up is that he is, like you, both a distributor and content provider. He lauds Lego for their better sets, but also lays into them when he thinks they messed up. He regularly even refuses to take some of their stuff into his inventory when he thinks that the quality isn't up to par and/or the MSRP is too high (which he often lowers anyway). He also seems to be very successful in both his roles, so it IS possible to combine them.

I don't presume to know Ken, Jason, Matt and Bill's motivations for stepping away from their individual podcasts. In Jason's case, I take it he was disappointed with part of the community. I don't blame you for that. All I'm saying is that we lost some things and got another, more centralized one. I think diversity in pinball media has suffered for it (which is kind of ironic since I'm as anti-PC as one could be). It's not all bad as TPN can be a platform for new creators to try some things, but overall, in my humble opinion, there's just too much Flip N Out in pinball at the moment.

I would like to appreciate and thank all content creators for all their hard work. I know a lot of effort goes into it, and my disappointment with certain aspects of podcasting does not diminish that appreciation.

The problem with the Lego comparison is you're going from hundreds of dollars for a Lego set to thousands. I flat out don't believe zach about new pinball machines. He flat out will lie to make a sale. I get it. I love jack danger and know he will lean heavily towards stern because he is in their pocket. That's why I value when guys have zero association with pinball companies and have nothing to lose when giving their opinions. That's why I liked slap save. When they said something, I believed them. There was no agenda. Just once I'd like to see zach give an F on a machine. A fucking F. Be honest for once and tell us when a (new) game is shit. He can't. That's why we need an impartial podcast.

That is why I like Dennis. He reminds me of Matt from slap save.

I don't have that much of a problem with Stern charging for extra content , I would just like to know about it before I buy a game . When you buy a top of the range car , at least they let you know what and how much the extras are .

As a topper guy I really enjoyed the last episode .
DennisK mentioned " Whales ".
As far as I know the term " whale " came from Australia's richest man , Kerry Packer , who used to bet huge amounts in Las Vegas casinos and he was physically a very large man . One of the stories that made the papers over here was , there was a Texan oil Baron who was bragging about how much money he had , Kerry turned to him and said " Let's flip for it . "

Thunderbirds?

What the fuck are you doing giving stranger things a god damn B+? You have an agenda. Period.

I can't wait to see how you rave about the flaming turd that Heavy Metal is going to inevitably be.

I don't know that he sells this. If he sells it: B.

There are a few modern games that just don't do it for me , Iron Maiden ,Wonker , Stranger Things . But I certainly would not give them an F . Would you like to share which modern games you would give a F. And Thunderbirds doesn't count .
( Edit you beat me to it Zach )

Regardless of what weight you put on Zack's pinion , I like seeing them review games and it's up to you whether you buy 1 or not , don't rely on anyone else's opinion , buy what you like . Just like movies , some will hate them some will love them .

screaminr

I agree with this, at the end of the day the buyer has to make their own decision to spend their money based on whatever factors go into their own decision making. Who else is putting out fully edited videos week in and week out? Not to mention, I’m pretty sure Zach and crew were making videos and reviews even before he became a distributor.

Zach, keep up the good work. Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't.

I think the JP topper is a disgusting cash grab. Toppers these days are taking on formats. Stern's worst are all shaped alike. They're beginning to remind me a little of the Laseriffic toppers in that vein. You can always tell it's Stern. Tilttopper, too, has taken on its own "look." But Stern's are priced 2x as high as Tilttopper's and 3x as high as Laseriffic's. When Stern doesn't stick to the formula (like on GoT, GB, AS, Kiss, and BKSOR), they shine and are worth every penny, IMO. When they phone it in (like JP, IM, DP, Beatles), they suck donkey balls.

On the other hand, I agree with your assessment of ST and think it deserves a B+. But I'm old enough to be one of the few remaining humans who doesn't want the whole world of media and entertainment to simply confirm my opinions. Love the show and thanks for your rather immense contributions to the pinball community. To the haters: there IS a pinball community. Treat it with respect and be grateful for that fact. We're all on the same side here.

How can you already condemn Heavy Metal? It will ship day one with completed code because it is based on an already completed game. It will also play well because that layout is fun. The SW home pin is fun, so Heavy Metal will be, also. The main thing you could complain about on that game is the price.

I mean these days none of the major companies release "turds". Some games come out and are more divisive, but all of them are at least half-decent, or have redeeming qualities. Cost aside, it's a good-time to be a pinball buyer. BKSOR has it's haters, but it also has plenty of fans. Same with Stranger Things pinball...plenty of people actually DO like it. Look, Zach tries to be positive pinball guy. He was giving good reviews to pins even before he became a distributor. He just loves all pinball and it shows. But I guess some people in this hobby can't believe that a content creator like Zach is genuine. Well, it's not up to Zach to convince you that he's honest, and it's not up to you to "fix" him or his content.

Speaking of honesty, I think anyone who would come into someone else's thread and shit all over their efforts and their character is a pretty crappy person. You don't know Zach personally, and yet you still want to get your digs in and question his character. If you don't value his opinion or his character, then don't listen to or watch his content. You don't need to come in and be an asshole and stir up trouble. That's a jerk move. People like you are ruining the online-side of this hobby. Don't like a creator, then just move on and don't let the door hit you in the ass. No one's forcing you to listen, and no one promised you anything. If the worst you can say about Zach is that he puts too much of a positive spin on his reviews/content, then really he's not doing too bad, is he?

And look, I love Todd, but do you know how many ACTUAL shit-games that Todd Tuckey sells with a smile? Nobody gives him a hard time, even though I've seen him big up plenty of terrible games. For instance, Todd has bigged up "Vacation America" on his show even though it's actually a pretty awful game, at least from rules/code standpoint. I don't understand the double-standard.

I hate the negativity. I kinda wish TPN had their own forum where assholes could be excluded. And look, it's totally fine to have different opinions or to not like something, but being a jerk or an asshole is never cool. Sorry, this got kinda of long. I just get annoyed with the negativity and the constant Zach-bashing.

Zach has ruined my summer.

What’s up with the hostility Jorant? Seriously. This is pinball man. Zach has an opinion. Like it. Don’t like it. Who cares man. Maybe you should take a step back and take a deep breath. Geez.

I really enjoy Zachs content(sdtm and TPN). He does have to walk a thin line being a distributer but just take that into account when watching/listening to a game review from him. He's always loved toppers and buys LEs, so is it really a surprise he doesnt mind dropping 600 for a topper for an amazing game? He also makes the point that due to the limited nature of them they appreciate in value(unlike most Pins). It does help the podcast that he has someone else there with a different perspective. It makes it more balanced and more fun to listen to.

Im ok if prices go up a bit on games if that keeps companies like stern/jp/cgc making pinball machines. And zach/others media is trying to expand the hobby as well which is great.

I want new stuff, I want these companies to survive. And to survive they need to be profitable. Its also ok to be mad at companies about playfield quality and all that as well. Just vote with your wallet. Topper cost too much? Dont buy it. Its not a neccessity. My main hobby is video games and Im ok with companies charging more for games as the cost to make them has gone up. If pricies need to go up to keep my hobbies alive im ok with that. I want new games.

Anyways just wanted to support Zach a bit here. I think he does a great job overall promoting this hobby even if he has to walk a thin line being a distributer. He does seem to genuinely love Stranger Things. Hey I love Star Wars and many hate that pin. Everyone has different tastes and thats a good thing.

I also may be biased as a fellow hoosier grad so he gets a plus for that as well.....

Mun is a solid D at best.

Stranger things is a C- at absolute best and that is on a good day.

My wife thinks Munsters is great and doesn't care for Jurassic Park. Opinions are not facts. Welcome to the land of subjectivity.

I continue to enjoy the show. I continue to buy Stern machines. I did not buy the topper. I personally did not think it was worth the value. However; I'm not going to publicly rip on people who bought it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's a freaking topper, step off the ledge.

So true. We had an Iron Maiden at our house for about 8 months borrowing from a friend. I think that is one of the best games ever and love it. My wife absolutely hated it and said it was awful. She was miserable playing the game.

well of course...

but in general terms, the majority will tell you Mun stinks. Consensus is that is is a dud.

... and in another fable, the majority loved the emperor's new clothes.

Take from that, what you will.

Nailed it!

MUN
- Art 5/10
- Shots & Layout 5/10
- Rules & Code 3/10
- Toys & Innovation 3/10
- Music & Call Outs 6/10
- Display & Animation 5/10
- Theme 7/10
- Enjoyability 3/10

ST
- Art 6/10
- Shots & Layout 3/10, the demogorgon ramp is crap along with the dumbest kickout ever made
- Rules & Code 5/10
- Toys & Innovation 3/10
- Music & Call Outs 6/10
- Display & Animation 5/10
- Theme 8/10
- Enjoyability 5/10

???