(Topic ID: 102067)

The Peak of Pinball?


By KingNine

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by jeffspinballpalace
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    There are 148 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 4 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    I am 35 and had not played a pinball machine that I can remember growing up. I just thought it would be cool to have one in my den (something different) and found a place about 2 hrs away that had several. With pretty much no research and no experience I ended up buying a Tron because I thought it looked cool and I somehow started multiball while trying it out. So that was my first game in late 2011.

    New hobbiest learn how to do their hobby. Some find it rewarding and stay in the hobby and others leave. It is the same across all hobbies. As complicated as this hobby seems it is nothing compared to the learning curve of saltwater aquariums! It is a daily biology experiment. You are god running an ecosystem with one small mistake leading to catastrophic failure and costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars depending on the mistake. Online forums similar to pinside (reef central is bigger than pinside) keep that hobby going. I had both hobbies going at the same time for years but having two very expensive hobbies that are both complicated and time consuming was just too much. I gave up my 125 gallon reef tank to go back to my oldest love which is pinball. I miss my tank sometimes but I don't miss the daily grind of it and I'd miss not playing pinball more!

    #102 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    New hobbiest learn how to do their hobby. Some find it rewarding and stay in the hobby and others leave. It is the same across all hobbies. As complicated as this hobby seems it is nothing compared to the learning curve of saltwater aquariums! It is a daily biology experiment. You are god running an ecosystem with one small mistake leading to catastrophic failure and costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars depending on the mistake. Online forums similar to pinside (reef central is bigger than pinside) keep that hobby going. I had both hobbies going at the same time for years but having two very expensive hobbies that are both complicated and time consuming was just too much. I gave up my 125 gallon reef tank to go back to my oldest love which is pinball. I miss my tank sometimes but I don't miss the daily grind of it and I'd miss not playing pinball more!

    Exactly what I did. One big reason to change from reefkeeping to pinball: if you don't feel like cleaning the pinball, you don't have to. With a reef tank, cleanings and daily attention are a must. Plus, it was always a pain to leave for vacations. I've had floods, fish die, and the whole ecosystem go wonky. Pinball was way easier, and actually less expensive than reefkeeping. Although I must say it was one of the most fascinating hobbies I ever had. A whole subculture in that hobby just like in pinball. Coral frag swap meetings, joined the local saltwater club, and all that.

    #103 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    New hobbiest learn how to do their hobby. Some find it rewarding and stay in the hobby and others leave. It is the same across all hobbies. As complicated as this hobby seems it is nothing compared to the learning curve of saltwater aquariums! It is a daily biology experiment. You are god running an ecosystem with one small mistake leading to catastrophic failure and costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars depending on the mistake. Online forums similar to pinside (reef central is bigger than pinside) keep that hobby going. I had both hobbies going at the same time for years but having two very expensive hobbies that are both complicated and time consuming was just too much. I gave up my 125 gallon reef tank to go back to my oldest love which is pinball. I miss my tank sometimes but I don't miss the daily grind of it and I'd miss not playing pinball more!

    I currently run about 1100g of aquariums. All currently freshwater though. Saltwater never has grabbed me, I have had several different saltwater tanks over the years but I always tire of them and go back to freshwater. The key with aquariums is automation. All I every really do is feed the fish and occasionally clean the glass. The main difference in aquariums and pinball is that you are committing required time to a living animal. A pinball machine can be left alone for years if you tire of the game or just don't feel like playing. Aquariums are pets and need nearly daily attention of some sort.

    #104 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    I can't really put a number on it, but I venture to say way more people play/buy EMs, older solid states, even 90s Bally Williams games, and could care less or understand what this terminology even means ("LE" "MMr" etc...)
    There is a lot of pinball community/collectors/players that cannot simply relate to, or understand, the few paragraphs you posted here. The things you are saying are really a non-factor to folks like me, collecting 1980s games and playing a few pins in the wild at barcades. While you and a few others might understand what you posted, I think very little of what you said can be assumed to be the "pulse" of the entire pinball community.
    Repost your post in the EM sub forum and you are likely to get crickets, yet those folks tinkering with $300, 30+ year old games are still a huge part of what makes the pinball hobby go 'round.
    Hope I made some sense there.

    I'm picking up my 20th pin tonight, a $300 project Stern Trident. I can honestly say I'm as excited as I was when I ordered Metallica.

    #105 4 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    A pinball machine can be left alone for years if you tire of the game or just don't feel like playing.

    Just like you take the fish out of an aquarium when you drain it, take the batteries out if you store your pin.

    #106 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Just like you take the fish out of an aquarium when you drain it, take the batteries out if you store your pin.

    Yeah, sure, ignore your games for months or years then go back and see if they ain't pissed off at you! Crap won't work, stuff will blow up for no reason and you won't be able to do anything but drain.

    Pins need love too, and when they don't get it, they will certainly let you know about it!

    #107 4 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    Yeah, sure, ignore your games for months or years then go back and see if they ain't pissed off at you! Crap won't work, stuff will blow up for no reason and you won't be able to do anything but drain.
    Pins need love too, and when they don't get it, they will certainly let you know about it!

    Yup. Yes they do. Especially EM's. The above poster is correct about the pet reference though, they are pets. I left for vacation and had someone coming over to feed the fish and corals every day. One night the power went off and the main tank back siphoned into the little sump below. As there was only room for about 3 more gallons in the sump and about 40 gallons of the 125 back siphoned you can immagine the mess my brother walked into while I was gone. About 35 gallons of saltwater on my wood floors! I had a system set up to stop such things but the air break in my return lines had clogged with a little bit of algea and boom - dissaster! I won't get into the dissaster of Hurricane Ike and my 75g system(it was terrible!!!) Luckily Hurrican Ike and Rita both spared my brother and I's pinball collection.

    #108 4 years ago

    Ouch, flooded floors are no fun. Below is one of my favorite Simpson's quote from a recent season. I laughed out loud because it was like an inside joke specifically for me.

    Lenny: How is this a prank? Give me back my TV.
    Lisa: I fed your fish.
    Lenny: You overfed them. You're the worst one of all.

    #109 4 years ago

    Well, one thing that has not peaked yet is pinball technology. I just hope the gravy train keeps rolling so we can see some incredible machines produced.

    Although, I suspect the real technology advances, or perhaps more unique and original utilization of existing technologies may come from a boutique manufacturer.

    #110 4 years ago
    Quoted from maddog14:

    Although, I suspect the real technology advances, or perhaps more unique and original utilization of existing technologies may come from a boutique manufacturer.

    Given that Stern hasn't made a major innovation yet, I woud tend to agree with you.

    #111 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    I'm sorry you feel that way but 54 million people disagree
    Edit: You are right that they will ignore me. At least they won't act like they read it or considered it due to their secretive nature.

    Just because something is "popular" doesn't mean it's a good pinball theme…see Wheel of Fortune & CSI. The people who like Minecraft like Minecraft because it's Minecraft…they like building things and sharing them or whatever it is you do in that game. Minecraft pinball would be pinball with ugly art. Themes that do well are ones with some kind of inherent nostalgia/collectibility factor - that's why music/comics/movie themes generally do well. IMO, the only videogame theme that would do well today is a Nintendo theme (if done right)- the nostalgia is strong with Nintendo fans.

    #112 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Just because something is "popular" doesn't mean it's a good pinball theme…see Wheel of Fortune & CSI. The people who like Minecraft like Minecraft because it's Minecraft…they like building things and sharing them or whatever it is you do in that game. Minecraft pinball would be pinball with ugly art. Themes that do well are ones with some kind of inherent nostalgia/collectibility factor - that's why music/comics/movie themes generally do well. IMO, the only videogame theme that would do well today is a Nintendo theme (if done right)- the nostalgia is strong with Nintendo fans.

    I agree completely, and feel that "popular does not equal good pin" could apply to Walking Dead as well.

    But theme is king and boy, do people love their Minecraft. I agree anything NES / 8-bit would be huge but good luck getting the license.

    #113 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Just because something is "popular" doesn't mean it's a good pinball theme…see Wheel of Fortune & CSI. The people who like Minecraft like Minecraft because it's Minecraft…they like building things and sharing them or whatever it is you do in that game. Minecraft pinball would be pinball with ugly art. Themes that do well are ones with some kind of inherent nostalgia/collectibility factor - that's why music/comics/movie themes generally do well. IMO, the only videogame theme that would do well today is a Nintendo theme (if done right)- the nostalgia is strong with Nintendo fans.

    +1

    I don't even think a Minecraft pin would get the kids in, asked my kids about it and they said they would rather play the real game with friends online than a pinball version of it.

    #114 4 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    I agree completely, and feel that "popular does not equal good pin" could apply to Walking Dead as well.
    But theme is king and boy, do people love their Minecraft. I agree anything NES / 8-bit would be huge but good luck getting the license.

    Nintendo licenses to companies who make toys, candy, belt buckles, RC cars, etc etc etc…they let Gottlieb do Mario pin back in the day.

    Walking Dead is interesting…not sure it will be a mega-hit, as the horror theme will alienate family buyers/players….but - it does have a passionate fanbase - moreso than CSI/24, which I'd call a 'pasive' fanbase. Walking Dead fans already buy comics, shirts, toys, etc - so they're in that "collector" zone already. It has also been like 20 years since a horror themed pin has been released - and horror fans are collector types as well. I think it will sell respectably….it has enough of the right factors going for it.

    #115 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Minecraft is the ugliest visual vomit I've seen in gaming….there are more appealing all-ages themes to base a pinball machine on.

    Minecraft is a fantastic testament to the point that games don't have to be visually appealing to be awesome. We've gone through many years of video games focused on amazing visuals, only to realize that a pretty skin on a boring game is still a boring game. Minecraft has far higher replayability than 99% of video games created, which is the only important stat.

    #116 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    agree that the increasing prices are becoming ridiculous.

    I'm not so sure. Even after the housing bubble crashed in '07 timeframe, builders still charge a premium for a new home compared to what a second-hand home fetches. New cars still fetch a premium over even slightly used cars. I may not like the prices and I don't run in the crowd that is paying the prices, but I kinda think the pricing reflects what the market has demonstrated a willingness to bear. Like these other industries, whether the re-sale of these titles returns original market value is going to be hit and miss. In the end, the exact same stack of money has different value to different people.

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

    #117 4 years ago

    I figured it out! The peak of Pinball was this morning before work when I put 1.4 Billion up on my BSD!!!

    #118 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Minecraft is a fantastic testament to the point that games don't have to be visually appealing to be awesome. We've gone through many years of video games focused on amazing visuals, only to realize that a pretty skin on a boring game is still a boring game. Minecraft has far higher replayability than 99% of video games created, which is the only important stat.

    I love artsy games and "old school" pixel style graphics…I prefer interesting and stylized art direction over the "realistic Ken dolls with guns" that most games have become…but Minecraft is just visually inept. It's like they said "lets make a 3D world that looks 8-bit" without understanding why 8-bit graphics can look so awesome.

    I'm gonna fire up my 3DS and play Paper Mario.

    #119 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    As much as everyone likes to harp on Stern, Gary did step up and started making pinballs again.

    As best I can tell, Stern never really quit making games. Or am I mistaken, and there was a period where none or almost none were made?

    #120 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    As complicated as this hobby seems it is nothing compared to the learning curve of saltwater aquariums! It is a daily biology experiment. You are god running an ecosystem with one small mistake leading to catastrophic failure and costing hundreds or even thousands of dollars depending on the mistake. Online forums similar to pinside (reef central is bigger than pinside) keep that hobby going. I had both hobbies going at the same time for years but having two very expensive hobbies that are both complicated and time consuming was just too much. I gave up my 125 gallon reef tank to go back to my oldest love which is pinball. I miss my tank sometimes but I don't miss the daily grind of it and I'd miss not playing pinball more!

    The reef tank equivalent in pinball is like this: You order a new mod to go in your game, and it looks great, but after a week you notice switches going out. Is it related to the mod or another root cause? You go to the local pinball repair shop to ask them, then spend the night reading repair manuals and schematics. You order a better multimeter to help take out some guesswork, and within a few more days you find the power board has issues. You replace a part here and there, but now you are convinced you should pull the mod to see if things go back to normal. Unfortunately the effects remain. You scour the internet, message forums, contact local experts, and after a few heart-wrenching weeks mysteriously the game is working again. It takes a few more weeks to get enough courage to try the mod again because it wasn't cheap, and things are perfect for years. What did you learn? Who cares, it's low maintenance again, but at least next month you will join a local group to get discounts on supplies and make friends with people that will help you out in a pinch next time.

    #121 4 years ago
    Quoted from skquinn:

    As best I can tell, Stern never really quit making games. Or am I mistaken, and there was a period where none or almost none were made?

    It pretty much went right from DE to Sega, then Sega to Stern.

    #122 4 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Products need to become cheaper to expand the market. Pinball only becomes more expensive.
    There also needs to be a completely out of left field theme like Angry Birds or Minecraft to really find new fans.

    Speaking of toys/games that crossed over to pinball machines,
    I thought Roller Coaster Tycoon and Transformers would be successful.

    #123 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    The reef tank equivalent in pinball is like this: You order a new mod to go in your game, and it looks great, but after a week you notice switches going out. Is it related to the mod or another root cause? You go to the local pinball repair shop to ask them, then spend the night reading repair manuals and schematics. You order a better multimeter to help take out some guesswork, and within a few more days you find the power board has issues. You replace a part here and there, but now you are convinced you should pull the mod to see if things go back to normal. Unfortunately the effects remain. You scour the internet, message forums, contact local experts, and after a few heart-wrenching weeks mysteriously the game is working again. It takes a few more weeks to get enough courage to try the mod again because it wasn't cheap, and things are perfect for years. What did you learn? Who cares, it's low maintenance again, but at least next month you will join a local group to get discounts on supplies and make friends with people that will help you out in a pinch next time.

    Not even close. At all. The reef tank requires a masterful blend of knowing the requirements of a vast marine environment on a large scale, and then trying to duplicate it by throwing piles of money into equipment and chemicals ito create a replication built in a tiny (by comparison) glass box. It requires much of the knowledge of a chemist, a biologist, and a zoologist to make it thrive the way it is supposed to. Mistakes such as not having the right quantity and spectrum of light to grow certain corals might cost me another $1000 in upgrading the lighting to correct, and that's after I have already killed several hundred dollars worth of that coral.

    In contrast, a pinball is an electronics computer. I have extensive knowledge of computers and electronics, and I make certain they work 100% before even adding a mod. I'll fully understand how a mod works, how it is supposed to work, and if it fails - I will figure out what caused the problem. In many cases, something like a wrong wire or a bad connection will be the cause, and often cost little to nothing to get working. The switch in hobbies from reef aquariums to pinball has been a lifesaver to my bank account & my sanity.

    #124 4 years ago
    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    Speaking of toys/games that crossed over to pinball machines,
    I thought Roller Coaster Tycoon and Transformers would be successful.

    Transformers could have been….but had many broken promises and production issues that gave it a bad rep that it never recovered from. Better rules & toys could have made that game an insane hit.

    #125 4 years ago
    Quoted from rkahr:

    I'm not so sure. Even after the housing bubble crashed in '07 timeframe, builders still charge a premium for a new home compared to what a second-hand home fetches. New cars still fetch a premium over even slightly used cars. I may not like the prices and I don't run in the crowd that is paying the prices, but I kinda think the pricing reflects what the market has demonstrated a willingness to bear.

    The premiums and LE's get what the market will bear, but the pros have pretty much matched inflation. The argument suggesting the high cost of pins is somehow stifling pinball's growth doesn't wash. But don't take my word for it, go ahead and do the math yourself...

    Receipts from 90's pins:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pin-price-list-from-yesteryear#post-1816205

    Inflation calculator:

    http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

    #126 4 years ago

    The market is being driven by repro parts, stencil kits, restore parts, OEM parts, boards and add ons.
    I think the more new parts come online the more interest there still is.
    As soon as repro parts are announced for a older machine, those titles dry up quick and price goes up.
    I don't think we are at the peak yet.

    Edit, i i think there are still a lot of home collectors just now getting into it

    #127 4 years ago

    i agree, pin-pimp, that people are still discovering and re-discovering pinball in their homes. the effect of The Pinball Arcade app is underrated as well. BUT a lot of the old timers are correct that unless location pinball finds a way to thrive, the long term future is bleak.

    #128 4 years ago

    I buy and sell a lot of games and pins and most of my buyers are new blood.
    They get hooked and buy more is seems is the case.
    I don't think i know anyone with just 1 pin. There are still a lot of parts that need
    Made and will be made in the future. So cool to get new back glass, plastic sets and playfields.
    I'm guilty of buying pins and storing them in hopes of someday new parts will be available.
    And i buy parts for games i don't have in hopes of finding one at some point.
    Demand will continue to drive us to the peak.

    #129 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Earlier!

    2.jpg 26 KB

    they where gambling games back then.

    #130 4 years ago

    part of the problem with location pinball is people see a machine asking for money and they assume it's a scam nowadays. typically, the machines they do encounter are total ripoffs, so why should this weird pinball machine be any different? it isn't even bothering to promise an iPhone or whatever.

    #131 4 years ago

    I remember going to the local auction and being one of only 2-3 home buyers there, and everyone else was an operator - they thought I was crazy to buy that "dud" TZ for $800 because it didn't earn shit on location.

    So I see people talking about how they should make cheap games, but they don't remember Breakshot? Or Jackbot? The manufacturers tried making cheap games and they don't sell any better than the expensive ones.

    There's a reason there's no small cheap car makers but a ton of small exotic car makers - margin. There is way more margin on expensive games and they're easier to sell.

    I have to say, pinball is more popular now than it was when I started in the mid 90's and it seems that it is definitely going to continue to rise, at least in the player department. As for home collectors, for everyone that has a WOZ, there's ten with some 70's or 80's game. I wouldn't worry about them running out of raw material.

    #132 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    After reading disturbing posts on another thread about pinball being at its "peak" I felt the need to write this. Pinball is at a peak right now but that doesn't mean the real peak isn't in the future and higher than it is now.
    But if we as the pinball community believe it is the peak then it will become our own self fulfilling prophecy as some start making decisions to "get out while they can" or simply not get out but not buy anything new either leading to a few less sales on each and every run of new machines. So, I declare this isn't the peak! It is still the beginning of the great resurgence pinball!

    Quoted from KingNine:

    Maybe we are just arriving at a plateau not heading into a valley. My larger point is our state of mind can become a self fulfilling prophecy and is best to not have a defeatist attitude. I don't advocate a head in the sand approach but a football team taking the field while the coach tells them "guys you already peaked" is destined to lose.

    After reading this whole thread, I feel OP regained his composure well and he brings up some good points about generational gaps in pinball and the current nostalgia trend. But his original post and his subsequent posts at the start of this thread reek of denying the bubble to protect current price levels. The hyperinflated market will correct itself. We should all hope it does, for the sake of the younger generations that will be carrying on the hobby into the future who could never dream of entering into a market where, for example, a Swords of Fury commands up to $2000.

    #133 4 years ago
    Quoted from ink_blot:

    After reading this whole thread, I feel OP regained his composure well and he brings up some good points about generational gaps in pinball and the current nostalgia trend. But his original post and his subsequent posts at the start of this thread reek of denying the bubble to protect current price levels. The hyperinflated market will correct itself. We should all hope it does, for the sake of the younger generations that will be carrying on the hobby into the future who could never dream of entering into a market where, for example, a Swords of Fury commands up to $2000.

    Not sure if that was a compliment or a slam (was it both?) Thanks I think. I'm just an average joe pinball owner that loves this hobby. I don't want to pay anymore for a machine than I have to so I'm not sure about the denying a bubble to protect prices statement. I did make a post earlier that I thought rising prices were a problem. It is my thought and there are a few that seem to dissagree. What ever the answer is the market will figure it out on its own and correct itself as needed. If I've made anyother comments that might seem contradictory I appologize and stick to my statement that pinball is not dying.

    #134 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Not even close. At all. The reef tank requires a masterful blend of knowing the requirements of a vast marine environment on a large scale, and then trying to duplicate it by throwing piles of money into equipment and chemicals ito create a replication built in a tiny (by comparison) glass box. It requires much of the knowledge of a chemist, a biologist, and a zoologist to make it thrive the way it is supposed to. Mistakes such as not having the right quantity and spectrum of light to grow certain corals might cost me another $1000 in upgrading the lighting to correct, and that's after I have already killed several hundred dollars worth of that coral.
    In contrast, a pinball is an electronics computer. I have extensive knowledge of computers and electronics, and I make certain they work 100% before even adding a mod. I'll fully understand how a mod works, how it is supposed to work, and if it fails - I will figure out what caused the problem. In many cases, something like a wrong wire or a bad connection will be the cause, and often cost little to nothing to get working. The switch in hobbies from reef aquariums to pinball has been a lifesaver to my bank account & my sanity.

    You are so right and the last sentence says it all to me. I do think the guy you were speaking to meant no disrespect to our previous hobby. He started off with the little smiley face and seemed to be trying to find a fun analogy of the similarities. At least that's what I got out of it.

    #135 4 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    sure but my point is "the gang" is growing in size each year still.

    I know four people buying their first pinball, and we know what that leads to...
    Pinball is on the rise big time around here. Three new clubs in Melbourne Australia. That makes six now, enough for a league.
    Pinball popularity may not rise to the heights it used to be, but neither will it fall so low again either. The thing that will keep it alive is it's uniqueness. A game in a box with a REAL BALL, a ball that will always be wild.

    #136 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Just because something is "popular" doesn't mean it's a good pinball theme…see Wheel of Fortune & CSI. The people who like Minecraft like Minecraft because it's Minecraft…they like building things and sharing them or whatever it is you do in that game. Minecraft pinball would be pinball with ugly art. Themes that do well are ones with some kind of inherent nostalgia/collectibility factor - that's why music/comics/movie themes generally do well. IMO, the only videogame theme that would do well today is a Nintendo theme (if done right)- the nostalgia is strong with Nintendo fans.

    This is a little off topic but it is a spur off my previous post so lets go with it. Just because WOF and CSI weren't great machines doesn't mean they were bad concepts for a pinball. Just poorly executed. Just because Minecraft doesn't have flashy graphics doesn't mean a pinball machine would have to be ugly. I think it could be done fairly well. I'm guessing you don't play the game with the assumptions you've made. IMO I don't think an old Nintendo theme would do anything to bring in today's players. Halo or Call of Duty would though. (I don't play either of those two but they are huge as well and current)

    Quoted from Wamprat:

    +1
    I don't even think a Minecraft pin would get the kids in, asked my kids about it and they said they would rather play the real game with friends online than a pinball version of it.

    Here is where you and I have two different experiences. I've now mentioned it to a few people. One a 17 year old and another a 20 year old and both of their eyes lit up when I suggested it. One is a pinball player and one has never played a game in his life. The others were just my kids and their eyes grew wide with excitement as well.

    Quoted from Baiter:

    Minecraft is a fantastic testament to the point that games don't have to be visually appealing to be awesome. We've gone through many years of video games focused on amazing visuals, only to realize that a pretty skin on a boring game is still a boring game. Minecraft has far higher replayability than 99% of video games created, which is the only important stat.

    Agreed. It is about the game play and if the machine is done right it would be great. That statement works for any proposed theme though. We could be discussing a truck stop bathroom theme and if it was done right it would work. It just always boils done to execution. Junkyard is a good example of this. How many people laughed at the thought of a pinball made around a junkyard theme with a toilet shot?

    I do say if this is going to be discussed at greater length (and I'd love to) we should probably split it into another thread. We'll see if it has legs or not.

    #137 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    This is a little off topic but it is a spur off my previous post so lets go with it. Just because WOF and CSI weren't great machines doesn't mean they were bad concepts for a pinball. Just poorly executed.

    Hold on....WOF and CSI are actually COOL machines! WOF was executed very well...extremely unique layout. They're just not themes that resonate with location players OR collectors.

    Quoted from KingNine:

    Just because Minecraft doesn't have flashy graphics doesn't mean a pinball machine would have to be ugly. I think it could be done fairly well. I'm guessing you don't play the game with the assumptions you've made.

    Minecraft's art is horrendous. If the pin was based on the game, it would look like the game.

    Quoted from KingNine:

    IMO I don't think an old Nintendo theme would do anything to bring in today's players. Halo or Call of Duty would though. (I don't play either of those two but they are huge as well and current)

    Dude, Nintendo is current. 3DS and Wii U exist...I'm not talking about NES 8-Bit. Mario Kart 8 just sold like crazy. Mario is more recognizable than Mickey Mouse...he's a worldwide icon. When Smash Bros. comes out for 3DS and Wii U soon - they will sell like crazy. People are WAAAY more emotionally attached to Nintendo & their characters than Halo or Call of Duty.

    #138 4 years ago

    The fact that we are discussing this is great and all of our post are just based on our own oppinions. I only brought up my idea for Minecraft because I was pointing out that I took the time to write Stern about my idea. I urge everyone else to write Stern or JJP about their ideas as well. Anyone can also startup a botique pinball company if they like and build whatever they want.

    Back to topic - Pinball is not dying!

    #139 4 years ago

    image.jpg

    WHOA NICE GRAPHICS

    #140 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingNine:

    The fact that we are discussing this is great and all of our post are just based on our own oppinions. I only brought up my idea for Minecraft because I was pointing out that I took the time to write Stern about my idea. I urge everyone else to write Stern or JJP about their ideas as well. Anyone can also startup a botique pinball company if they like and build whatever they want.
    Back to topic - Pinball is not dying!

    Graphics aside, I'm not sure how Minecraft would translate into a pinball machine? Minecraft is popular because it's an open world sandbox type game which fosters creativity and imagination. How do you implement a rule-set for something that is "open world without boundaries"? What's the storyline of the game and what are you trying to accomplish? Also, any toys on a Minecraft pinball machine would have to be able to transform and change based on the player's imagination. Not to be harsh, but Stern couldn't even figure out how to do transforming toys on Transformers. Pinball is all about fixed rules and set story-lines/goals. I don't think something like Minecraft would work in pinball unless you found a way to make the rules open ended and change on the fly based upon what shots the player hit. I think this might work in a Virtual pinball world (Pinball FX, etc) but would be hard to do on a physical machine.

    #141 4 years ago

    The absolute peak will occur at the precise moment TAFR is announced.

    #142 4 years ago

    I don't know if this is THE peak of pinball, but let me tell you this is MY peak of pinball!

    I have been waiting for my (first) NIBs for more than 2 years and I hope to see them soon. There are plenty of other exciting projects around. Wish i could afford all of them! We created our regional league last year and had 94 players registered. This year should be even better... Let me enjoy these moments!

    #143 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    The reef tank requires much of the knowledge of a chemist, a biologist, and a zoologist to make it thrive the way it is supposed to. In contrast, a pinball is an electronics computer. I have extensive knowledge of computers and electronics, and I make certain they work 100% before even adding a mod.

    If you knew electronics before going into pinball I can see how it is easier than a reef aquarium. For those that know neither hobby beforehand, I found reef aquariums are easier to pick up and maintain. I've never found the need to call a specialist for a reef aquarium, but I've done it plenty with pinball.

    #144 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    If you knew electronics before going into pinball I can see how it is easier than a reef aquarium. For those that know neither hobby beforehand, I found reef aquariums are easier to pick up and maintain. I've never found the need to call a specialist for a reef aquarium, but I've done it plenty with pinball.

    Point taken, and you are correct. My personal experience with the reef aquarium was good at first, but I did everything I could to try to stop the rollercoaster of nuisance algae. Followed expert advice, water changes, bought reverse osmosis water filtratration...on and on. Time and money for that reef, and it never did look the way it was supposed to. That hobby was tough, for me at least. Sliding from that into repairing pins, pretty easy since electronics has been my life occupation.

    #145 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Minecraft's art is horrendous. If the pin was based on the game, it would look like the game.

    Technically Minecraft has no art. It's like Legos where the player is the designer. While it is block based, zoom out on a more massive scale and you get very interesting Minecraft landscapes or Lego sculptures. It's really up to the pinball designer to come up with a great theme... didn't they recently make an entire movie based on Legos?

    minecraft.jpg lego-sculpture-nathan-sawayas-adn.jpg
    #146 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Technically Minecraft has no art. It's like Legos where the player is the designer. While it is block based, zoom out on a more massive scale and you get very interesting Minecraft landscapes or Lego sculptures. It's really up to the pinball designer to come up with a great theme... didn't they recently make an entire movie based on Legos?

    minecraft.jpg 38 KB

    lego-sculpture-nathan-sawayas-ad... 44 KB

    Most pinball machines feature characters - whenever I see Minecraft characters they look like this:minecraft-download-skinsminecraft-skins-download-free-minecraft-skinsdownload-minecrafts-eikdxxzz.jpg

    Ugh. Lego characters are cute and appealing.

    #147 4 years ago

    OK if we are staying off topic (and it is at least an off topic I love lol) my vision was an video display similar to WOZ. The first stage of making shots could be collecting the resources needed to build a shelter and as you made the shots the video would respresent this as in the game. The next stage would be constructing the shelter with the video showing the progress as the shots are made. This could progress untill the end game wizard mode of defeating the ender dragon with your diamond armour on you mined and made. It could have a usb port so that an individual could upload his custom character skin so he watches himself on the screen. Different multiball modes along the way could be for battling the wandering creatures of the game such as skeleton or spider multiball or even better to achieve - Creeper multiball.

    Minecraft isn't just an open creative game it is also a survival game as well which gets overlooked by some. It depends on which mode you want to play in. Also the graphics don't have to be all 8 bit looking graphics but a mix like this:

    1191_minecraft_posters_computronic.jpg

    #148 4 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I hear what you are saying, 2 or 3 years ago the base was growing, in decent numbers, including us. I just don't see it today, in large part due to the huge increase in pricing during that time.......Now they are looking at 500 TWD LE's. That tells you all you need to know right there. It is simply not increasing and you still have the huge hurdle of overseas sales at the much higher prices. I just don't see it happening.
    Does anybody really think that these guys can keep pumping out LE's and premiums at these prices and people will keep gobbling them up. No way that happens. Wait until MMr, TH, TBL etc. actually filter into the market.
    JJP has made a huge investment in overhead that they have to recoup. Stern is about to move into a new high dollar facility.
    Pinball is getting a lot more expensive, not cheaper. Like Ben said, you need cheaper to grow. How does a $5200 LE sound? Dreaming.

    I give that post two snaps up...in a circle ...friends.

    2Snaps_4.gif2Snaps_5.gif2Snaps_3.gif2Snaps_1.gif2Snaps_2.gif2Snaps_7.gif

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