Is this speaker 8/4 thing LE only, or should pros be swapping too? How are you telling what value is correct?

Game #610 is safely home! This game is really fun! Whole family approves!

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I volunteer at a place that operates a Rush Pro model. On the 35th game, the scoop metal crane buckled and prevented the ball from entering.

One of our techs did a deep dive and attempted to secure it. On about the 90th game, it buckled again.

In my humblest of opinions, this is the worst design flaw to come out of a Stern game since the reels and power supply issues in Whoa Nellie.

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Having said that, I think the game is kinda awesome. A nice shooter with good art package. I think they could have done more with the screen, but that’s being nit picky.

Oh crap. What's this issue with Whoa Nellie about? I have a Primus! Hope its resolved now!

That is certainly another option.

I just feel like the Stern protectors are doing more harm than good.

Thank you

Not to me they weren’t guess they got overwhelmed with call about Rush

I'm pretty sure I can also see the wear on the playfield. Further, the LE "protectors" are definitely starting to show signs of impact and deformation. They appear to be impinging into the playfield along the hole edges as well. And this is only after 3 or so days of home use, if I'm not mistaken?

I can't imagine why Stern hasn't specifically issued a statement or tech bulletin allowing the application of mylar under the protectors and around the scoop without voiding the warranty? This would at least serve to limit the damages in the near term until an actual viable long term solution is engineered.

The announcement that they're dialing back the release of new titles (edited for clarity) to take a breath and catch up is the right thing to do. Standing O to Stern for that. Although, I'm guessing the decline in quality control informed heavily on that decision. However, not allowing owners to take some remediative measures is just ensuring eventual warranty claims that might otherwise be avoided.

I guess I should ask, since this is my first NIB rodeo: Have playfield wear issues ever been addressed via the warranty process?

Man, would I love to be a fly on the wall for the internal discussions that must be going on right now.

On the other hand, imagine the market place ads five years from now for still NIB Rush LEs, LOL. That's some TAFG level stuff there!

Do you run a external Sub with your pin woofer system.

They aren't dialing back production, they are just moving their production resources to fulfill all the backorders on their existing product line. They've even increased their labor force to actually increase production.

I do wonder what that team of designers & engineers working on new projects will be doing and how they are affected....

Good point! Thank you. Previously unartfully worded post edited for clarification.

The question remains: why not let us limit the ongoing damage?

wait did someone up thread say that Rush is better than IMDN because...no. just no. i know you love your band but lets not get carried away here

Well, it does have the advantage of not having to listen to Iron Maiden...

More pics by request, showing the sides of the lower scoop, focused the pics on the inner edge of the wood. For those not following, this is on an LE with 104 plays.
Im definitely seeing wear on the wood, more on the right side than left. I can't see the condition of the PF underneath, it's not visible around the inner edge because of the metal shape (remember the tabs on the Pro, I think these are the same piece but with the tabs cut off).

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PF around the outer edge of the protector appears to be intact. White lines you see in these pics along the edges are reflections/glare. I dont know the condition underneath as I have not removed it.

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When calling around to distributors to check inventory, the two games that came up most often as “in stock” or “spots remaining “ were AIQ and Mando. They also (at least recently) were the only games on the secondary market I’ve seen going for anything close to MSRP. I think Stern hit the breaking point of new release vs increased backlog. Releasing another new game 3 months after Rush would only serve to further decrease interest in more slowly selling titles, and they need to maximize every license. Its a smart move to delay the next cornerstone

true. i'm not allowed a maiden because the family can't stand the music

but calling a game that's been out for a month better than the game that launched a career that's produced some of the best pins ever is a little premature and doesn't really speak to objectivity but fandom, that's all

Skyking, Thank you for posting! I'd love to see your balls. (And I mean that in the most platonic way possible). Are they taking damage? (Albeit only averaging 1/6th of the hits)

I'm not sure if it is an artifact of the glare in your pics, but its appears as if the playfield might be pitting to the sides of both stainless horizontal supports, where the ball hits up against, and is possibly stopped?

BTW, so you don't feel alone, I'll be in the same boat as you as soon as my LE is delivered. I didn't buy this baby not to play it, but I'd sure like to minimize any permanent waves.

Looks like the protector is bent up as its not secure in the front. Perhaps needs some double stick tape in the front?

Considering both AIQ and Mando had been produced again in the last 2 months that make sense. I do agree it was a smart move delaying the next cornerstone, but I do wonder what impact this will have on their new game development staff….

I hooked up my pinwoofer kit yesterday and it sounds awesome,today I will add my polk 10 .
Pinwoofer on my Zeppelin has a sub hooked in and sounds unbelievably good.I got everything I needed in 1 stop at Pinwoofer.

Thanks for the close up photo, this is definitely wearing through the clear coat and damaging the playfield. I'd advise seeking clarification from your distributor as to how Stern intend to resolve this issue and what the time frame is to bring it to customers.

Our LE is in transit, it will not be getting used until the scoop has been sorted by either Stern or Cliff.

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Any idea if the balls are showing any earlier than normal wear or marring from hitting the tips of the forks? It looks like enough of a blunt lip to possibly make the ball not smooth over time.

This is nuts. It’s a fucking scoop.

Disappointing.

Game should have never shipped like this. Hope Stern is ready to send out 1000 redesigned playfields if they can’t figure this out with a properly designed protector.

I just sent Stern a message saying the same thing. Get ready to be sued for new playfields.

Yep..all because they wanted two scoops so they were made very small/tight.

Sometimes less is more

As an operator, when this happened, one of the techs took apart the assembly and attempted to fix it. Wasn’t really a big deal.

However, if I was a random customer that bought one of these for home use (which I assume is the majority), I’d be PISSED. I mean this thing costs like $7k, and customers shouldn’t be expected to dismantle a scoop on their brand new game.

On the operator level, pinball machines break on a daily basis. No huge deal. But on the consumer level, damn. I’m surprised there’s not a class action suit yet.

Assuming of course that Stern won’t rectify this in a satisfactory manner.

Thanks for sharing pics. I think I'm going to lay down mylar that wraps around those exposed edges and put protector back on top of that. I might also put mylar down in the saucer/upkicker as I think that will chip over time, too.

I put mylar down straight away on back side of drop targets, 3 return ball drops, shooter lane, and drain to ball trough.

Here are my initial settings for pinwoofer probably tweak it some as I rock along.

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Still waiting for JJP GnR playfield class action suit lol. Ain't going to happen, but it should.

$7k?! Ha! As an LE buyer, I say HA!

Scoopgate is a Farcry from being over.

It's ridiculous. Is there some sort of super thin polymer membrane that can be put between the scoop and playfield to help prevent playfield damage until Cliffy comes to the rescue?

Damn.... I'm scheduled for a Tuesday delivery of my LE, but with 'scoop gate' in full effect I'm getting nervous about damaging the playfield. I'd hate for this to be a $12K room decoration. I know Stern stepped up with a fix on LZ to the point of redesigning the spinner hardware on the Prem/LE, but I don't see how they are going to be able to design their way out of this one. Especially for all those that have damage as a result of the poor design. They obviously knew this was an issue at the time of the reveal as they omitted the problematic protector on their live stream so as to not have a noticeable malfunction while the pin world watched. Not sure what that tells me other than there was a little deception going on there. Hope and a prayer that 'everything would be ok? Just ship 'em and see what happens??' Not confidence inspiring. I guess DP will continue to get the most plays in the game room!

I haven't looked at the bottom of the playfield, but is there room for metal flaps to wrap under and get screwed in? if they were screwed in, I think they wouldn't be able to buckle up.

Just got back from Fedex.....LE in da house!!!!!! Now....I don't know what to do about the scoop!

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I still think a mylar solution is the only way to protect the top and the clearcoat below.

Metal protectors are all going to get trashed with all those direct ball hits off the 2 flippers.

What # ? Its not like Spinal Tap (it can never be played) Play it.So far no issues here,play it until you think theres some disforming going on and then stop.I have no problems yet.

OK, here is a possible solution to scoopgate...not fully vetted or tested.

I happen to have an uninstalled Mantis Metallica scoop protector handy and did a quick fit from above. Perfect fit!!!

I quickly raised the playfield to see how it will mount.....dang, Stern put a lot of metal around that hole underneath. I don't have the bandwidth today to tear into it, maybe someone else on here can lead the way. At first glance it looks doable, but with some drilling and possible cutting required on the metal flanges around the scoop under the playfield....

Calling Kerry Mantis......

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Just sent an email and pic to Mantis.....

I received LE #800 two days ago. I've been tweaking it and here's what I've learned...

1) For a music pin, the sound quality isn't that great. It definitely needs a subwoofer and more high-end frequencies from the backbox speakers. I can barely hear the cymbals. I have another Polk 10" PSW108 on order from Amazon ($250). I've found this to be the best sub for the price and it supports connections to two pins. The 4 ohm/8 ohm setting is under Utilities, but this only changes the volume. It does not improve the sound quality, which I expected being an engineer and understanding how impedance works. However, there are 10-band equalizers for both the backbox speakers and the cabinet speakers. On the backbox, I recommend increasing the midrange bands a little and the treble bands a lot. Do the reverse on the cabinet speaker, increase the bass bands. This makes a small difference, at least until the subwoofer arrives.

2) I wanted to make sure the playfield was exactly 6.8 degrees, as recommended by Stern. Usually, this makes all the shots and angles correct as the playfield designer intended. However, I noticed that no matter how much I lifted the front of the pin, the level bubble didn't move. Then I discovered that the level was not properly seated in the bracket. Push, click, fixed. After leveling (it was too high), the issue I had where my manual ball plunge was not hard enough to drop the ball to the upper flipper is now corrected.

3) The flipper strength on my machine was much too strong. Balls were flying everywhere and I was worried that things would get damaged, especially the scoops. The game was also impossibly fast and I was getting all kinds of strange deflections into the out-lanes. I lowered the strength from the default Hard to Normal and the machine plays like a dream. My first game after this correction, I was hitting all my shots, getting multi-balls, and making progress instead of watching cheap drains. I can now perform multiple loops with the left flipper and the right ramp shot is actually easier to hit.

4) My biggest complaint is the fan noise that kicks on every few minutes for about 20 seconds. I assume that this is to cool the CPU but wow, it's like someone plugged in a Hoover. Is there anything that can be done about it?

I will say that I am pleased how Stern has upped their game recently (pun intended), especially the big improvements like the quality of the cabinet artwork, the Expression lighting and the mirrored back-glass. There are a lot of little things, like the wires that keep the speaker panel from hitting the glass and the nice labels in the backbox. If they would just spend the extra $50 (wholesale) for some better backbox speakers, which on a music pin should be a no-brainer. They could also enclose the cabinet speaker and add a port, which would dramatically improve the bass.

I've been a huge Rush fan all my life, one of those people that you see in the documentaries, that explain how Rush music changed their life. I may be a bit biased but I love a well designed pin and Rush LE looks and plays like a thing of beauty. I am really looking forward to the finished code

Hope more LE owners share photos as they play the game. Hard for me to see damage but then again I’m due for optometry appointment.

Anyone with a Stern insider LE order get their shipping info yet?

OK, now we're getting somewhere. I speculated that the scoop could be the same size as another Borg, since he tends to reuse....here's the proof...if the Met Mantis fits perfectly, then that means it's not too tight for a Mantis style protector. I can make scoop shots on my Met with Mantis perfectly.

Here's hoping either Stern makes their own "Mantis" kit....or Mantis makes one that works with whatever's going on under the playfield.

Haven’t gotten my Rush pin yet.

But from what I’m seeing
Seems even once I do get it,
It’s going to be a sitting idle until this scoop problem is fixed. I’m not interested in replacing the PF even if under warranty. Just not worth the hassle. It’s NIB.

Now I’m just thinking out loud here based on what we’re all seeing with the initial Pro & now “fixed” LEs…

I’d probably hold off on playing the pin until either a permanent solution was provided from Stern or Cliffy

I guess this somewhat makes the wait easier now. They really should have noticed this and Properly fixed it before shipping LEs.
(For the record I don’t have an LE, waiting on Premium)

Mine will arrive soon and I have to sadly agree, much as I'm looking forward to playing it for the first time. There's plenty I can focus on in the meantime (partly thanks to a few of you reading this) while Stern works on the code and addressing the scoop.

Yeah, mine is being delivered tomorrow. I might just keep it in the box until this is solved. I'll keep playing Ultraman & Godzilla.

great i have a extra REL sub a little overkill but will work..

GNR LE finally lands here tomorrow after ordering in Dec 2020. That's gonna help distract, admittedly...

Insane! I can't believe you had been waiting that long.

"3) The flipper strength on my machine was much to strong. Balls were flying everywhere and I was worried that things would get damaged, especially the scoops. The game was also impossibly fast and I was getting all kinds of strange deflections into the out-lanes. I lowered the strength from the default Hard to Normal and the machine plays like a dream. My first game after this correction, I was hitting all my shots, getting multi-balls, and making progress instead of watching cheap drains. I can now perform multiple loops with the left flipper and the right ramp shot is actually easier to hit."

Hi, as a newbie, can you please let me know how/where to adjust the flipper strength? Thanks!