I'm ordering a pro tomorrow.

Rush is a phenomenal game, but it is a brutal shooter, it will chew up and frustrate casual location players. I have 2 pros on location near me, one has our lanes all the way down and it still whoops your ass. I used to route a TMNT and feel Rush is very close in difficult to it with a more niche theme.

The rules are fantastic, but very obtuse for the deeper stuff. A lot of the great stuff will be lost on 90% of players.

I think LZ is a turd all the way around, avoid at all costs.

As much as I love Rush, as a former operator, I’d be patient and wait for a new release for your route, if that’s an option. Rush doesn’t have the broad appeal you need.

Taygeta

Thanks for the write up. Kind of what I was thinking honestly. Playing Rush I thought the shots, once learned weren’t too bad. TMNT on the other hand just always feels terrible and I’m not sure even theme can save that one on route. I may have to double up on an older title as I just need a few more for a location.

Rush might just have to be ordered regardless and be played at home. I rarely do this, but it can be a long winter sometimes.

IMHO. If you're going that route. Then go with the premium.

Really? I thought the consensus was the pro was pretty close on this one. On Borg games I’ve not been let down yet with a pro. Need to play a premium now.

premium is a way better shooter and more fun to play, scores higher and a lot less bad bounces out of the not-dead-end upper left shot that always feeds the flipper.

A lot of people have fun on the Pro, but if you’re seriously considering getting one for your home environment(which you should ), step up to a Premium.

Sure, it’s little nuances between the Pro/Prem in mechanical aspects, but it adds more joy to the layout and feel when playing. It gets you the LE playfield without the LE price tag, with the exception of no expression lights, unless you install the Led Zeppelin ones instead.

now that LZ has had it's swansong I suspect we will see the expression light kits for Rush start being sold, it would make sense for them to hold off on those for their LZ premium builds from a parts standpoint.

I was pretty secure on my choice for pro and now you guys are messing with me. Argh.

I sprung for an LE and don't regret it for a second. It's spectacular!

I have a premium and love it. The game is good, period. However, I recommend the premium. The pro seems good to, especially if you don't think it is a keeper for you. You can get a used pro for around 6.5k, maybe better depending on your market. I remember chuckwurt saying on stream he buys the pros, then down the line if he thinks it is a keeper may step up to a premium down the road. I think that is a good call if you don't mind buying/selling games. I had a GZ pro and loved the game. It has solidified that someday I may pick up a used GZ premium if the space opens up. However, I get a lot of enjoyment in having many different games come through the home. Some people don't let go of their games, if that is you, make your decision and don't look back.

I prefer to keep it and not to trade out later, and I'll also prefer not to essentially pay for 2 pros to get an LE.

The premium could be a compromise but I'll be honest I'm nervous about node 10 and so that's a plus in the pro column.
The missing VUK also seems to be regarded as a positive as far as gameplay goes. Unless you like a break.
I think the consensus on the clock is that it's not a real impact contender for decision making on what model to get.

I'd have to add a shaker, and eventually I could put it expression lights on the pro so that's cool with money left in my pocket for other mods.

I kind of like the artwork on the pro better than the premium, definitely the big blue owl is cool.

I find myself reading the posts that fit my current thinking and going with that justification kind of like doublestack

But then I read the post above that talks about what a brutal shooter there pro is And that 90% of the people won't get the game. I definitely don't understand the rules currently but think I'll figure them out with a little effort however, That's got me a little freaked out like I'll be draining all the time and just not good enough to enjoy or want play this game. Especially if the pro is brutal.

It's polarizing. I'm in a bit of a state of paralysis today and I planned to order a pro today but now I'm in analysis paralysis.

The center time machine shot is a little easier on the premium. You hit it a lot on this game. So that slight change makes a difference. I also dig the up/down ramp. It just adds to the experience. Yes, the ball gets hung up sometimes on the gap when the ramp is up. But a little up nudge sets it free. Plus it can hold a ball there for you during multiball!

Not 100% confirmed, but more recently, I think the issue was figured out. A couple of people found broken/damaged wires from zip ties too tight from factory, between ramp motor and Node board. If the line power breaks while ramp is in use, can cause the chip on Node board to fry.

I’ve asked previous people with the Node board issue, to verify their wiring, to see if that was the issue with theirs, but no follow up from them. Main reason to check, if you have damaged wires, swapping boards will only get you so far, and not solve the problem.

If you go Premium, check zip ties between both clock and ramp, back to the Node 10 board. Later runs I believe helped address this, still worth checking.

If you're considering this for home use, used LE prices have gotten almost reasonable. Several have been selling in the $11xxx range, with even a few sales creeping down to aroudn $10,500. Premiums are right about $8000. For that extra $2500-3000, you get expression lights ($700), invisiglass ($250), shaker ($150), upgraded audio ($150), mirrored backglass (unobtainable), unique side armor (currently unobtainable), a different powder coat, and (IMHO) far-better cabinet art. Also consider that you'll recover the difference in cost on resale, and that (generally) a low-priced LE is going to sell fairly easily at some future date.

Given all this, the Rush LE is a pretty good deal right now.

I have an LE still in a box with a Red Barchetta and other mods waiting for install. Running a barcade really eats into your personal pinball time which is what the LE was for. I play my pro at the shop all the time.

Anyway, anyone looking for an NIB LE and mods at cost, let me know.

The decision gets even harder (or does it? ).... I'll PM you.

Sound advice. Thank you sir!

Pro is fantastic, its the same game except for the dead end shot which makes it faster.

You won't be disappointed.

I hope so - I didn't dream they would take a year ++

IMHO Pro/Pre is a wash on gameplay difficulty. I agree that the VUK is a bit easier, since it's always dropping the ball back to the flipper without risking a drain STDM, but then the instruments lane I find harder. The Pro just has a target there, while on the Premium you have to thread the needle and get the ball into the lane behind the drops. But for me, I really like the extra moving parts on the playfield, and having the extra challenge on the instruments is good for me, makes me work to improve my skill.

I wouldn't put too much stock in words like "brutal". People exaggerate for emphasis. There are subtle differences in the way Pro vs Premium play, but nothing that IMHO should give any person who actually enjoys pinball any real concern. You can learn both machines, and do well playing either one.

As far as the artwork goes, that's obviously completely subjective. Some people think the LE art is the best. Personally, it doesn't resonate with me. I like the Pro backglass the best, but the Premium backglass is a close second -- it still has the owl, just not as big -- and I very much prefer the Premium side art better. It fits the old-school Rush aesthetic that I grew up with much better.

I think that the main question is simply this: budget. If you can afford and feel you can justify the extra cost of the Premium, go for it. It has the extra little touches that make the game that much more fun IMHO. Otherwise, if the Pro is what your budget calls for, you can get it with confidence that it's basically the same game, and will still be plenty of fun to play.

Man, I replaced my rubbers, and cleaned the playfield and balls. Zoom, balls are flying. Typical score down to 100MM, with occasional 1/2/3BB games at random now.

My rubbers show as Titan Competition, would these be low bounce?

Don’t over think it man. The pro is super fun and shoots fast and smooth. This game is fun because the code and the shots which both come with the pro version. The clock kind of blocks the left orbit(IMHO)but might not bug you as much as it did with me. I also felt like the dead end shot on the premium slowed the game down a tad bit but again you might like the extra couple of seconds to take a breath. I played my friends premium and after a few hours of play I was totally satisfied about my pro. If you’re looking for just fun shots and deep code then you can’t go wrong with a pro. If you haven’t played one yet it’s a fast shooting game compared to GnR. Hope you pull the trigger as it would be a perfect partner to your GnR.

Yes, those are low bounce. I also installed Titan low bounce on my Rush machine and like them. It's mostly personal preference, but I was wondering if the ever so slight thickness reduction to create "low bounce" makes a difference on saving down the middle drains by making the opening between the flipper fractionally wider?

Solid Advice.
DiabloRush had some advice that was solid on the reciprocal side of the arguement, to justify the extra price of an LE, with current market prices (I dont know where he knows of a 10,5 LE) but at cost with shipping Black_Knight LE will cost me $5600 more than a pro. Yikes. Thats tough to justify. Especially with solid logic like yours. $2200 more for a Premium and I will enjoy the Pro just as much? I did play a Pro recently, and it was fast, for sure. It was punishing me and I walked away not sure it wasnt too much for me, but I had NO idea how to play it (just like GnR at first), and could barely hear the songs and call outs, so it wasnt the best environment. But I did have a smile on my face the whole time cause I am a huge Rush fan, even though I only have seen them twice... Grace tour and Signals tour.

For the "deal" that is the Pro.... I think I can enjoy it for the reasons you mention, and the fact that I AM OVERTHINKING it and I know it.
Thanks Bill (and everyone here who kindly has taken the time to post/reply on this topic)

Yep, mine crapped the bed a few days ago. But IMO, the Prem or LE is still the way to go on this machine.....it is worth the occasional node 10 issue.

Dude, if I were you then I would contact this person w/o hesitation.

I did, and its a $5600 lift over the Pro. I just can't seem to make peace with that. ( and your Node 10 story isnt helping either - even though I know crimped wires are the suspect right now - its the price disparity mainly)

I too prefer the art on the pro.

I honestly really like the pro on this game and put my order in today. I just played a LE and it just didn't do enough for me on this game specifically to justify the cost.

Dude!!! Me too. Pro just ordered today. Mrs. Claus is good.
<Fist bump>

Hmm, that is quite a bit of cash. I think if one is really into the band then that person seems to opt for the LE or Prem. But if you are more into the game of pinball then go with the Pro. As has been said, this is a niche theme compared to having broad appeal to a wider audience. Buy Rush for home, buy Godzilla for the biz (and home...lol).

I have an early pro and love it. A good friend of mine has an LE and while the expression lighting is awesome, it isn’t 5k more awesome.

Personally I like the flow of the Pro better. We play on both quite a bit and the VUK vs. the deadend was definitely a huge concern before I bought pro but after playing them both I found that I prefer the dead end vs. the VUK. The VUK definitely disrupts the flow. And don’t get me wrong… I don’t know if I’ve scored more than 250M on the game in 10 months. But when you hit that shot a few times in a row, it is a little annoying that it comes back on the VUK vs. just popping back. I can totally understand how you score higher on the prem/LE with the ball returning on the same spot of the flipper vs. semi-wild returns from the dead end.

You’ll be happy with either I can promise you that. Just plan on adding a shaker if you get the pro. And a subwoofer for either pro OR Prem/LE!

You are gonna love it! Congrats, as a fellow Stern Pro guy I agree, Borg knocks it out of the park with value on his pros.

To be fair, there's not much value in hitting that shot a few times in a row. You will generally need to go hit at least one other shot before the dead-end is useful again, and in some cases even more.

The main exception I can think of off-hand is in Spirit of the Radio, if/when you have already built up a good bonus and stack of qualified shots, then you might just shoot it a bunch of times in a row. But I have to say, I do run into that situation from time to time, and I definitely do not find it the least bit annoying to have the ball delivered right back to my flipper so I can make the shot again, nor does the very slight extra delay bother me one bit.

YMMV.

Can someone start a pole, How many Rush Premium/LE Owners are having a Node-10 Issue ? Tired of the run around, why cant Stern be honest with the people that pay their bills? Game has 35 plays. I dont see any smashed/broken wires, but I haven't taken the ramp all apart. No excuse for how long warranty claims take. Then Cointaker says they have the board, charge me $200, it arrived, wrong board!!! Eddie gave me a RMA #, but no tracking number, Than when I point blank ask, Hey is a replacement board coming? No answers!!!

How long you been waiting?

Sure. You can start a poll, if you think it's important to start. Just create a new topic (probably in the LCD tech subforum), and use the checkbox at the bottom of the page. You will also probably want to post a message here with a link to the new topic.

I had every intention of getting a premium because I'm a huge Rush and I couldn't justify the extra cost because I love the pro art and it basically the same game.

One of the better pros you can get. I love the machine.

I have a pro and played a friends premium last night. Premium definitely scores higher and is easier. The main differences for me were the dead end shot, which on the premium brings it back to the right flipper, the upper scoop firing the ball out the side (pro shoots it to the flippers) and targets ball lock. Not much else and I’m not sure those are worth the extra cost, at least to me. That said, the premium plays very nice.

Actually I think the pro is a harder shot, you have to hit the target (thread the needle) to hit the target behind the drops in all cases, where in the premium you sometimes have the captive/trapped ball there which is an easier shot.

I finally made it to Cygnus-X1 today. My previous high was around 1.3 billion points, and this game ended up at 4.2 billion! My outlanes are set at the easiest setting so family members can make it further through the modes, so not really a comparable score to what most people probably play set at on route and such, but I was happy to get a solid game in.

Pretty sure I heard some callouts I hadn't heard before, and I think my score before starting Cygnus was around 2.2 billion on ball 2.

Crazy. Love this game!

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Still waiting for some color led lighting from Comet, but here is my topper... drumset spins too...

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If it only worked properly!!!

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Looks sharp! Let me guess.... ramp and clock issues?

I have to come check it out. I have a Funko set!

I love the powder coat, watch those plastic inserts between cab and legs. they will wrinkle cab decals.

I have funko's in all the toppers, kids git me into it. Yes, must have you over.

Is there a lane behind the drops on the Pro or just a flush target?

There’s a lane with a target at the end of it. Very satisfying shot!

Yeh, it’s a great shot on PreLe also. So only difference is the ball capture forks. Then to hold up the shot value you have to keep hitting that target on the Pro?

The lane is shorter on the pro and there’s a target that triggers code just like the shot on the premium, the premium has an opto and the up post for the occasional captive ball.