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(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

5 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 18,415 posts
  • 824 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 28 days ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 187 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

87 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (3 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (3 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (3 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (3 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (3 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#1 5 years ago

With Skit-B dominating the Pinside News over the last few days, I felt that an official thread needed to be created for Pinsiders to discuss the latest developments of Skit-B "Predator". Previous Predator threads have run their course and, in some cases, severely changed course.

This is not a Skit-B bash thread. While some may express an opinion contrary to the majority, each person in this thread is responsible for maintaining civility with those that oppose. If anyone resorts to name calling, insults or any other offense that is intended to incite others, then be prepared for a thread boot. As long as there is polite discourse, then this thread will remain open.

If you are getting destroyed in a discussion, do not resort to name calling, as that is a sure fire way to get thread booted.

As one of the 250 pre-buyers, I am very interested in getting answers regarding the curious manner in which Skit-B is handling "Predator". I want to hear "insider" knowledge and weigh it against "I heard it at ..." knowledge and make up my own mind.

All Skit-B Predator Discussion should be kept in this thread. Older Predator threads have outlasted their original intent and a decision was made to close them. So use this thread to get your Predator fix.

This way, those that care to hear about Predator related rhetoric can have a single thread dedicated to that purpose. Those that do not care to hear about Predator related rhetoric can drain this thread and be done.

Stay civil. Leave the wild speculation to a dull roar. Ask your questions. Answer questions. Engage in discussion.

If we can follow these rules, then this thread will actually be worthwhile.
If we cannot, then it will get closed . Simple as that.


#49 5 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

The moderators had a meeting and requested you stop eating so much.

This is exactly the kind of post that is not acceptable.

Direct attacks on other pinsiders will not be allowed.


3 weeks later
#463 5 years ago
Quoted from loren3233:

Is this still "The Official Pinside Skit-B Predator Discussion"?
Maybe the posting Moderator can change the title.
Hard to believe when this was posted.........

This is the still the official thread for Predator Discussion. Kevin's post was a more general post regarding Skit-B's status.


1 month later
#614 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Prove me wrong then. Who said it? Another Pinsider who was speculating?
If you are too lazy to do it, I'm sure one of the 4 people who gave his post a thumbs up would be happy to step up to the plate and do it for you.
And if someone does, I will apologize profusely, and admit that I'm a big boob!

The link below is the post made by Aaron of Fast Pinball. If you believe Aaron has seen Skit-B's Predator licensing agreement, then this post will satisfy your query regarding the question "Why doesn't Skit-B mention Predator on their bi-weekly update, website or other social media?". It would also influence you to apologize and admit that you are a big boob.

If you do not believe that Aaron has seen Skit-B's licensing agreement for Predator, then this post does not prove a thing and you still have doubts regarding the status of the license so you will not be apologizing at all.


For those who prefer not to click a link, here is the post from the thread:

"I thought Kevin would hit that one more directly in the email, since the licensing topic is a hot one with all the DP stuff going on. Pretty simple. Licensing says you cannot promote the IP online, social media, in marketing, etc. You get what you pay for. Since it was a limited run that was sold out, paying for the opportunity to promote as such would have been a waste of money.

FAST Pinball"

Personally, I believe that Aaron has seen the Predator Licensing Agreement.


1 month later
#907 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Stern doesn't answer every email.

This is true. However, Stern does have a Tech Support Phone Number (1-800-KICKERS) that has a tremendous track record of working with Stern customers.


#931 5 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

But if it's not...
It wont be "just you" that it affects. 250 people don't get hurt here... an entire industry does. Even now, already without too much real reason, its widely considered on pinside that the "pay first, get the game later" model is dead or near death. Anything going wrong with Predator will not only kill it with authority, but it will kill similar used business methods by other manufactures.
No one... no one... will ever be able to pre-fund an idea on pinside and make a machine 12-36 months later... even if the theme is DD beach babes VS zombie nazi's on dinosaurs. The success or failure of this project... even the part before the success and failure... (like the emails, communication, refund requests, photos given, timelines etc) are all affecting downsteam the willingness of any pinhead to support any idea up front. Its true.
Should skit-b fail for some reason... they don't just hurt 250 pinheads... they kill the entire business model for everyone. No Wrath of Olympus, no time-shock!, no Alien Pinball, and many more...

Good. I hope that the pre-buy model is dead forever.

If WOOLY, time-shock, or any other game has a problem funding their business, then I shed zero tears for them. If they truly believe in their game, then they need to take all of the risks to get it to market.

I am a customer. I've been told time and time again that I am not an investor. If that is indeed the case, then these companies need to fund their company in a manner that allows them to build these games without my money.

If the product is worthy in my eyes, I'll buy it. If it is not, then I'll pass.

Regardless of the success or failure of Skit-B, the pre-purchase model is dead to me. Others may want to support it. But not me.

And in my opinion, good riddance to the pre-purchase business model.


2 weeks later
#2321 5 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

On a real discussion point, who would be willing to accept the same machine without the license? I'm thinking that's where this will end up.

As a Predator Buyer, if the game does not have a license, then I am out.

There are too many other options from companies that have licensed IP themes.


#2628 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I would also respectfully ask to revoke my "boob" status that I posted here in response to a post by Marcus "explaining" the license issue based on posts from Aaron at FAST:



#2880 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Who knows if Fox is really going to charge Kevin with criminal infringement

I'm not a lawyer, but based on my understanding of Criminal Copyright Infringement cases, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is the agency that would bring up Criminal Charges for Copyright Infringement.

Fox would have to involve the FBI and the FBI would have to agree to take the case. Fox can sue and go the civil route, but Fox itself cannot just charge anyone with Criminal Copyright Infringement. Fox does not have that power.

From the FBI site ... "Preventing intellectual property theft is a priority of the FBI’s criminal investigative program. We specifically focus on the theft of trade secrets and infringements on products that can impact consumers’ health and safety, such as counterfeit aircraft, car, and electronic parts. Key to our success is linking the considerable resources and efforts of the private sector with law enforcement partners on local, state, federal, and international levels."

Now is it possible that Fox has friend within the FBI and some strings could be pulled to get Skit-B on this course? Sure. But I feel that it is unlikely.

Back to your regularly scheduled lynch mob.


#3082 5 years ago
Quoted from Jetzxi:

Guys as you are aware Kevin does not frequent Pinside as much as he once did. I can organize a Q&A with Kevin for all the buyers of Predator here on Pinside if that would make you feel better.
Let me know your thoughts and we can go from there..............


As an Predator Buyer, I appreciate the offer. I want to say thank you for offering to help.

But ...

Unless Kevin is willing to give no bullshit answers, I personally think a Q&A is a waste of time.


#3299 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

My Paypal is set up through my debit card through Bank of America with a visa logo, would I be able to contact them about a chargeback or is that just on a full blown credit card?

My advice is to contact Band Of America and ask them how your credit charges are handled.

My bank treats my credit charges as a normal Mastercard.


#3318 5 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

This might help find him....


You sir, have won Pinside for today.



#3347 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

...and so it starts.

I think this is a command, not a statement.

I could be wrong, but I read it as a command to Kevin, not a statement that Kevin has refunded his money.


#3373 5 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

This post was moderated for Personal attack 59 minutes ago. A thread eject was issued.
Please do not make personal attacks against Pinsiders who disagree with you

This post was moderated for Personal attack 38 minutes ago.
Please do not make personal attacks against another pinsider
Why is one of these a thread eject and the other is a warning?

Neither was a thread eject. Both were warnings.

The site is showing a false thread eject.


#4865 5 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

I just did this, they did open a dispute but apparently the system automatically closed it because it was past the 180 days. They did say they will send a "courtesy email" that I requested to be refunded, and if Kevin responds, they will let me know - but I am not very confident anything will be done.
The rep also told me to contact local authorities to report the issue, as well as, gave me the to report the online fraud.
At this point, I am giving Kevin until Friday to prove he is actually taking the refunds seriously. If not, I will submit everything I can to make sure he (and anyone else involved) is punished to the full extent.
If anyone has other suggestions for what I can do, please PM me.

Another option to try is to go to your bank.

Speak with someone there and see if the bank is willing to help out a customer.

You might get the same answer as you did from Paypal, but there is also a chance that your bank will back you up and help you get your money back.

It's worth a shot to get back thousands of dollars IMHO.


1 week later
#6478 5 years ago

American Express issued my credit on Friday.

I also received a letter in the mail that said that I was not responsible for the charges.

I expect the Amex investigation to be completed in the next 6-8 weeks.

But as of Friday, March 27, 2015, I had a refund for my large payment back in June 2014.

Skit-B still owes me $250, but I am happy to wait on that so that others have a chance to get back more of their money.

I just wanted to share a success story so that others can realize that they may indeed get their refund if they are using their Credit Card Company Charge Back system.


#6482 5 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Great! Everyone should know exactly what you did/said. Were you out of the time limit?

I posted my process earlier in the thread. I believe my Amex protects me for 600+ days, so roughly 2 years. The payment that was refunded was the June 2014 payment of $2,750. I am still due the original deposit of $250

Basically, I did the following:

1. Called Amex and disputed the charge.
2. Amex did a brief investigation and agreed that I could dispute.
3. Amex told me that I was not going to be held responsible for the charges.
4. I received a letter that stated that the process had started.
5. I received a credit on my Amex Bill.
6. I now will wait 6-8 weeks so that I get an official notification that the funds are mine.


#6490 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

sticking head up briefly before going back into lurk mode...
when people are talking about "refunds" they got, they should make it clear whether they got a "refund", or their card issuer successfully processed a "chargeback"... they are two different things..

To the best of my knowledge, the only way anyone has gotten money back is through chargebacks.

Not one single person has stepped up and said that Kevin has personally issues a refund.

I believe in Kevin's eyes, not disputing the charge back is equivalent to refunding people.

And I did receive an email from Paypal as well. It was notifying me that they were aware of the dispute and would be investigating it internally as well. For whatever that is worth. (In my opinion, nothing)


#6618 5 years ago

Just an update for those of you who are in the process of doing a charge back.

Paypal changed my account to "limited" status.

I now have to jump through some hoops to get back to my normal "verified" status.

It's nothing major. Just validation my credit card info, my personal info, etc.

I should have my Paypal account back to normal in a couple of days.


1 week later
#7419 5 years ago

Kevin talks with Pinball News.

I'll give my opinions in a separate post.


#7427 5 years ago

So Kevin decides to speak with Martin of Pinball News.

Here is the synopsis (per Kevin)

* Kevin made the assumption that he had Fox's approval to move forward because Fox explained the Fair Use concept to him on a call
* The "license" was verbal. There was never a written licensing agreement.
* Even after getting notified by Fox that he needed to remove all Predator references from the internet, he still did not reach out to Fox to confirm his understanding of the "license"
* Once he found out about AG's involvement, he reached out to Fox and came away thinking that Fox was open to working something out, hence is cryptic email.
* Kevin's intentions were to provide everyone a game. He just was ignorant and naive about the proper way to do it.
* Kevin intends to refund everyone. The Paypal account is largely untouched, minus some small purchases for parts.
* Kevin is done with Pinside. It is not the pinball community.

There's more to the story. But that was my take on the story.

Here is a snippet from the Article that relates to Pinside.

Finally, looking to the longer term future, we wondered if Kevin sees how he can recover from this and return to play a positive part in the pinball community. He was upbeat about the possibility of continuing to develop pinball and other games products further down the line.

He told us, “There’s a handful of things to consider. First of all, the people who know me personally in pinball, they’re the guys who are calling me saying ‘What the Hell’s going on? You would never do anything like this.’ And that’s the general consensus of the people I know personally. Locally or far away, it doesn’t matter."

"So I’m not worried about, as you so unavoidably put it, rehabilitating myself into the community."

"But, when it comes to the rest of the community, there’s an air there now. There’s this weird deniability or believability. It’s all going to come down to what people believe at what time. You know, what information is fed to them and from what sources."

"And so as far as the pinball community goes, the biggest preface is; Pinside is not the pinball community. But people see it that way. And as far as that community goes, I have no interest in redeeming anything with the people who tried to post my wife’s phone number in order to harass me directly or indirectly, or suggested that I paid all the money to my mother, and whatever else was said."


And finally, my take. The following opinion is my own. It does not reflect Robin's or the Pinside Moderator Team's opinion. I am speaking as a pinball collector.

Kevin has to be the biggest, blundering Pinball Manufacturer of all time. The article makes him look completely incompetent. His failure to reach out to Fox to get a written license is just asinine.

While I do not believe he was a crook who had the intention of scamming Fox, the buyers or anyone else, I do believe he has proven himself unfit to run any type of pinball manufacturing operation.

I wanted to believe in the little guy so badly that I failed to do my own due diligence. I had plenty of close friends warn me about believing in Kevin. They all described him as a good guy, but a flake.

I was impressed by the prototype at TPF in 2014. I had fun playing the game, despite its flaws.

While the Pinball News article does shed some light on the incredible stupidity of SKit-B, it also convinces me that he was just some kid in the basement who didn't know what the hell he was doing.

But he is a bit hypocritical in my opinion. He was perfectly happy to use Pinside to get his 250 games sold. He was happy to participate in forum discussions while there was no money on the line. But the moment the venture turned into a real life business, he fled like a coward.

He then decides that Pinside is not the pinball community. And this is indeed the case. Pinside is not the entire pinball community. However, Pinside is THE Pinball Community that built Skit-B.

Since we brought Skit-B into this world, it is only fitting that we take it out.

I look forward to the day that Skit-B is just a bad memory.


1 month later
#8547 5 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

Xerico should put Kevin Kulek in the thread title. It will help with getting it indexed by the search engines.



#8686 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That would be a great make a wish foundation, LOL.
"For my dying wish I would like Kevin to have X scene reenacted from the movie Predator"
I don't need to cite specific examples but you can go look at the data. The most common assults and criminal battery charges occur between known individuals and the top cited reasons are almost always greed, money, revenge, or infidelity. You are living in a very sheltered world if you don't realize there are plenty of antisocial wierdos in our pinball hobby.
Reality is that Kevin now has ~200 people that put him as most hated person.

You have made your point. Now please move on to another subject,

Stop talking about possible physical violence against Kevin Kulek or anyone else involved in this situation.

Consider this a warning to to everyone reading this thread.

Stop bringing up the possibility of physical violence or inferring physical violence or hinting at physical violence that could befall Kevin Kulek.

Thread ejects will be the next step for those that do not heed this warning.


#8811 5 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

me? Yes, I do. If you PM me, I'll send it to you. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to post it publicly. If the ops say it's ok, I will post it.

Pinside is an online community. We see links all the time.

Please feel free to provide a link to your website.

If it helps just one Predator buyer get a refund, then it will have served its purpose.


#8885 5 years ago

The following is Mr. Kulek’s attorney contact information:
The Law Firm PLLC
Jon T. Emaus, Managing Partner
8163 Grand River Rd.
Ste. 300
Brighton, MI 48114

search terms: Skit-B Kevin Kulek Attorney Lawyer Refunds Civil Lawsuit

3 weeks later
#9340 5 years ago

NoahFentz and DeeGor, both of you have had your say.

If you want to continue your personal discussion, then move the discuss to PM.

Consider this a gentle reminder that the topic of this thread is Skit-B.

Move discussion back to the topic back to Skit-B.


2 months later
#9614 5 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Why was the other thread locked?

The other thread was locked because we want all Predator related topics in one thread.

Having everything in one thread will make it easier for all affected parties to keep up with refunds, lawsuits, information, etc.

If you have information about Kevin Kulek or Predator, then put it in this thread.

Keeping everything in this thread is the best option so that we, the Predator Buyers, can have a chance to get some justice.

For the record, I do not own the prototype nor do I have it in my possession. To the best of my knowledge, no moderator has the prototype.


#9830 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I flashed a Nun in my trench coat once and she had a stroke. I flash another Nun and she also had a stroke. But the third Nun I flashed wouldn't touch it.

This is pure comedy gold Jerry! Gold!



Consider it stolen.

1 week later
#9988 5 years ago

I really hope people don't start posting, just to hit the 10K mark. (12 to go)


9 months later
#11204 4 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

If HappyDayz is Tim Fife then he is using a duplicate account to get around his frozen PinChilli account correct?
The fact he came here to talk people out of continuing litigation and if anything has now fired people up with the opposite effect is just great. Let Kevin fight with his family and friends.

HappyDayz is frozen.

For the record, once a person is banned from Pinside, he/she is always banned unless pardoned by Robin. There is no special privilege for anyone. While we may not be as quick as some would prefer, we do our homework and research before freezing an account that is suspected of being a duplicate account for a banned member. Once we have accumulated enough evidence to reach a consensus on the mod team, we take action.

Moving forward, we ask that people send us PMs, use the abuse report tool or open a mod feedback thread if they feel a banned person has returned to Pinside using another account. Using the forum to call Pinside an "embarrassment" or any other form of passive aggressive posts will be subject to moderation under the "Do not criticize Staff actions" rule.

If you want to discuss the mod team handling of HappyDayz, Kaneda, or any other topic not related to Skit-B or Predator, please open a moderator thread. This thread is not the location for such discussions moving forward.



#11310 4 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

Okay, who deleted all the hilarious game titles that used to be linked to this topic?

The Pinside Staff deleted them. The only game that should be linked to this thread is the Predator game. All others will be considered off topic and deleted.

Please do not abuse this function.


Pinside Staff

#11312 4 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Does that apply to all threads, or just this one?

Please do not abuse the function in any thread. Only link games that are relevant to the discussion.



#11339 4 years ago

Let's bring the discussion back to Skit-B and Predator.

Both parties, Whysnow and cfh, have made claims that contradict each other. This thread is not the place for a 20 page "yes you do", "no I don't" discussion between Whysnow & cfh.

Neither side is likely to agree with the other, so it is now time to take the discussion to PM.

Any additional discussion regarding the accusation that cfh has Predator parts/machines without hard proof is no longer on topic for this thread.

If someone has hard proof, please feel free to open a moderator feedback and provide the evidence. Otherwise, the mod team will consider this accusation a "broken record" and will moderate as such.

If anyone wants to discuss this decision with the entire moderator team, please open a moderator feedback thread.



#11345 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

But most of all remember...

If you are going to quote me, then quote the entire paragraph. Don't cherry pick in an attempt to snidely get a point across. Much has changed since I wrote the opening post. Kevin had not been revealed to be the criminal and fraudster that he became. Skit-B had not yet proven to be completely untrustworthy.

Like any thread that lasts for thousands of posts, this thread evolved. So that I am clear, bash Skit-B and Kevin Kulek all you want. Just keep it within the site rules and keep it civil. No threats of violence against Kevin or any members of his family or collection of friends. No trouble making for the sake of causing trouble, like cherry picking the first sentence of a paragraph in the opening post.

Here is the entire paragraph. With the exception about bashing Skit-B, the rest stands.

Quoted from Xerico:

This is not a Skit-B bash thread. While some may express an opinion contrary to the majority, each person in this thread is responsible for maintaining civility with those that oppose. If anyone resorts to name calling, insults or any other offense that is intended to incite others, then be prepared for a thread boot. As long as there is polite discourse, then this thread will remain open.


#11482 4 years ago

This post is a warning to everyone that posts that make any reference to a threat of physical violence to anyone will be cause for permanent ejection from this thread.

Pinside Staff is now drawing a line in the sand for this thread. Even posts that are meant as jokes will be cause for ejection.

One man's joke is another man's serious threat. So rather than have to evaluate each and every post for intent, we are simply going to start ejecting anyone that makes a post where physical violence towards Kevin or any other person is mentioned. Overtly, implied, jokingly, seriously, etc will all be treated the same.

If you make a post after this one with a threat of any kind, then you will be ejected. If you feel strongly enough about coming back to this thread, you will need to open a moderator feedback thread and make a case to the entire staff.

If anyone would like to discuss this warning, please open a moderator feedback and we'll be happy to discuss it.


Pinside Staff

4 weeks later
#11564 4 years ago
Quoted from Drenden:

Meaning he's going to jail? Good for buyers bad for him?

Unless Keith's news includes an indictment from the D.A., I'm guessing the "winter" is purely civil, and not criminal.


#11589 4 years ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

Everyone suspected that Kevin bought his house with Predator money but couldn't prove it until now. What a complete piece of dogshit.

And then he goes and puts it in her name so that people that he swindled could not touch that house when they sued him.

Anyone that tries to argue that he is not a fraud and was just in over his head will be simply foolish based on this court document.


1 week later
#11783 4 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

Can someone please identify the Bally pin that this card is on, please.

Bally Wizard


3 months later
#12070 3 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

What are the odds that he shows up this Friday?
I'll guess below 50%

Him personally showing up?

I'd put the over at 15%.


2 months later
#14531 3 years ago

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too. Gamarar and seplinlg plioce can scuk it.

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