(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

5 years ago

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Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (3 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (3 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (3 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (3 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (3 years ago)

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#2683 5 years ago

I've talked to Kevin more than a few times.

He told me how much the licensing costs were.

I asked a few pointed questions and he always answered without any hesitation.


But remember that licenses are only good for a short while, and then you have to renegotiate if you want to keep them active.

Remember that any artwork has to be approved (Google how many Demolition Man translights got rejected before Snipes signed off on his likeness).

Remember that even if a license grants you the use of "sounds" from a movie, music is licensed separately. You are not going to get Little Richard for free.

Remember that a movie license does not necessarily allow you to put logos and artwork all over your website or T-shirts.

#2686 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

To me the more interesting question is, if Kevin came back and said, "we have resolved the license (and here is the proof) and the game will be built by <insert valid manufacturer name here>, but will now cost $5995" -- what happens?

Licensing is not some huge amount of money.

It can cost huge money to keep redoing artwork.....hiring legal help....going to court when you are not properly licensed, but the actual license cost is quite low.

#2693 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think you're being kind to think at this stage his problems are just from having an out-of-date license.

Maybe out of date, maybe no license for music, maybe no approval for playfield art, maybe ......

#2698 5 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Is that so? How many things have you licensed with a major world famous IP owned by a billion dollar multinational corporation?

Even major blockbuster movies license for $25 a game.

How much do you think a B-movie that is 30 years old is going to license for?

#2702 5 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Predator is not a B-movie from decades ago...

It is a B-movie.

It is from 1987, decades ago.

It is so hot, that the DVD lives in the $5 bin at Wallmart

#2704 5 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

You are giving him the benefit of the doubt... admirable.

I don't doubt he did license Predator in some way.

It just may not be in the way he thought he did.


Kind of the same thing with Lebowski, eh?

#2706 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Not sure the 'B' move is going to be less when it comes to pinball, and does not matter if Predator is a B title or not. The $25 number is by all accounts in the right ball park. Now typically there is going a minimum that is going to put the license cost at a $25K minimum, so at a lower number of machines the cost per machine would be higher. But the overall statement that it is not a huge sum of money is certainly correct.


Look at all those licensed, limited production toys that collectors buy.

They are not expensive, and they only produce 100 to 250 of them.

#2714 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Come on vid. You're a reasonable guy. I respect your input and worldly experience but none of that is reasonable. The license may not be what he thought? Seriously? Ineptitude isn't a defense. I can't fathom any instance where someone of the intelligence on the order of building a pinball machine doesn't ask, "ok, what rights specifically does this license grant me?" That's bullshit of the highest order.

I know licensing, because I've done licensing.

But most people don't know anything about licensing.

Most bands have a heart attack when they have to buy a $90 license before the CD replicator will stamp their CDs because they have a cover song on it. They have no idea that they have to pay to use someone's IP.....

#2716 5 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

DVDs... CDs... They still make these things?

They have to keep making them for people who shop at Wallmart.

#2723 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Fox is not going to waste their time having contracts drawn up for $25 x 250 units ($6250). They've probably spent much more on their lawyers looking into this so far.

They license movie theme Kleenex, so that probably makes them more than anything @ 10% of .79 cents.

#2727 5 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I didnt know if she was facing forward or backward! At first, it was a Boob pic!

Those are the kind of boobs you can enjoy from any direction.

#2742 5 years ago

Who knows where the licensing stands at this point (only Kev knows), so maybe we should start thinking about wrapping this up ourselves if a nuclear solution is required.

What if Kevin just shipped the populated playfields, cabinets, circuit boards "as is"; calling it his Jungle Killer game?

What if a torrent appeared with the Predator game code, the cab graphics and translight art, anonymously on the net?

What if people just had the decals and translight printed as a group? Some small mom and pop print shop would love to run 250 sets of decals. For about $2 a square foot, you could have the decals laminated with the shiny clear plastic like JJP charges $400 for.

Ideal? nope.

Doable? yep.

In a way, I like the shadiness of the FIY (finish it yourself), more than the real deal.

#2774 5 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

i never understood why only 250 games?

A few years ago he said that was all he bought licenses for.

I said he should have bought for 500 and he said "too late".

Hindsight being 20/20, it was probably better he did not sell 500

#2913 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

You forgot about option number four:
Kevin abandons the project, apologizes profusely, gives everyone a full refund, and eats all the losses.

Anyone who has a counter top microwave in their kitchen is not going to have the reserves to "eat all the losses".

#2917 5 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

He's got 10 playfields, 10 cabinets, parts for 10 machines.... and Backalley custom parts for 250 Predators. We've seen pics. Other than that, what else he has spent money on is speculation unless someone has insider info.

I think the smart people should call Kevin RIGHT NOW and ask for their game in pieces.

#2929 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

And all the video clips on the DMD? Audio?

Those could get leaked as a torrent, you never know when hackers steal all the info from your computer......

#2934 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

And translite ...

The translight art is the least of your worries.....

predator-stock art.jpg predatorlogo.gif
#3014 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:


Well, I can say with a 100% authority on the subject; the courts will not buy an excuse like that and will string him up if he tries to play cutesy with the judge.

I'm not saying Kevin start the torrent, I'm saying one of the 250 owners copy his files.

His home computer is wide open right now.

#3020 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

You ever see Breaking bad? The episode when Walt gave his life savings to buy the RV? How'd that go?

That RV was a great investment, it grew into 80 million dollars.

Kevin should be so lucky.

#3038 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

That scenario, improbable as it may be ends badly for Kevin either way. Negligence will not curry favor in the laws eyes. He would be held accountable regardless of how it got out and the resulting damages the ip holder claims. Flimsy? Yes but fox has the finances to push that angle. It's just not a viable solution. In all seriousness though, this is beyond speculation a conjecture and delving into silly. I was just offering some sage advice in the off chance that crossed his mind.

Although he knows some programming, firewalls are clearly not his strong point.

#3059 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Please pm me a piratebay link to the code once available



#3080 5 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

If you are implying that you have hacked into his file servers and downloaded his Predator code... that would be uncool. If you start sharing that code, that could just make matters worse for his relationship with Fox.

I'm not implying anything of the sort, that sounds illegal.

I'm am just saying that if you apparently don't have your firewall set up, all your stuff is right out in the open with just the simplest of scripts.

Even megabucks Sony, could not stop 2 of it's ex-employees from stealing it's movies, emails, games and blaming it on North Korea.


Nothing can stop buyers of Kevin's Jungle Assault game from writing their own Predator code and doing a conversion. They might make it very similar to Kevin's code, he had a lot of great ideas.

#3091 5 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

you sound like an 'ol LOD guy from the 80's

Those guys were great.

#3138 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

You never saw the episode, the money was spent at a strip club by Jesse who blew it on Strippers and booze, Jesse only got the RV from his friend who steals it from his mom.

Of course I saw that episode, what are you talking about??

Combo steals the RV from his mother and gives it to Jesse.

So the $7,000 that Walt gave to Jesse to get a RV was a great investment, because Walt grew that money into $80,000,000.

#3388 5 years ago

99.999% of the time when you call the cops about a money transaction dispute, the cops say that it is a civil matter, and that you have to take the person to court.

#3391 5 years ago
Quoted from pmWolf:

...and posting his personal info, stuff about his wife, where they go on vacation, what they ate last night, and then working on getting the cops to his door is NOT going to help out!

I'm digging through the garbage cans on the side of their garage right now.

#3461 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

This is SO different. You guys are crazy. We're not talking small claims here .. we're talking somewhere between 700K and 1.1 million! We're talking money transactions that not only crossed state lines but international lines (wire fraud). We're talking about clear and documented communication from him that can easily be proven as lies (and thus, fraud). Unless Fox comes out and says yep, we gave him a license to use and there was never a problem and we never asked him to take down the Predator content, then he was LYING. He intended to deceive. Fraud! And unless he can realistically account for how all of the money was spent ... more fraud. Has anyone ever watched American Greed??


That is why Barney Fife and the local cops won't touch this with my 20 foot pole.

#3628 5 years ago

Don't forget 90% of all new businesses fail in the first 3 years.

Not because of a big scam, fraud, or sham; just because businesses are complicated endeavors.

If giant businesses fail, with their professional managers, accountants, forcasters and millions of dollars of capital, then we can certainly understand when a sole proprietorship runs aground.

Kodak, Montgomery Wards, 20 different airlines, GM, Lear, Macy's, all have filed for Chapter 11 - and they were all at one time leaders in their fields.

Donald Trump, hate him or not, has filled for bankruptcy, what, 4 times?

Not every business failure is because of a scam.

#3630 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

If Kevin didn't have the license to sell the game and took in close to a mil, then it's a SCAM!!!

A scam to rip the clients off, or to rip FOX off?

If he did have a license, would everybody have a game right now?

#3639 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Started of to rip FOX off, but now ended up with the customers getting ripped off. What difference does that make, it's a scam.

I got one person emailing me that he had no license.

I've got another emailing that he only has a North American license.

Send everyone a "Jungle Assault" game.

Blanked out faces on playfield, blank cab and translight.

Let everyone decide what theme they want the game to be.


#3644 5 years ago
pred chick.jpg
#3646 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm confident people have anywhere from $250 to the full $4750 paid and how the remaining money gets divided up and refunded will be an issue.

If FOX takes him to court, there will be NO money left to distribute at all.

Not one bit.

#3648 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Unless the preorder money is considered restricted cash, in which case the buyers would have top priority on getting it back.

Long before that happens, Kevin will have to retain an attorney versed in IP - those attorneys don't accept $5,000 for a retainer....

#3655 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Cannot understand why Fox would be entitled to other peoples money at that point, unless they wouldn't of been told about it and started proceedings to collect funds.

I speak from experience, that any time lawyers are involved on a federal level, the cost of the legal defense will be $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

That will eat up every bit of money Kevin has, long before FOX sees judgement, and way before any funds are distributed to the investors.


Whoever tipped off Fox's legal team about the game, drove a stake into any chance of a refund for the investors.

#3658 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm sure if Kevin wants to avoid legal trouble from Fox he better agree to destroy all cabs and all playfields.

He can just peel the decals off the cabs, and spray over the faces on the playfields.

Anyone who wants any of that stuff should contact Kevin RIGHT NOW before it's taken.

#3659 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Well in any case, he better refund all that money before FOX can get their hands on it.

Kev may be naive, but I'm sure he is not dumb enough to hand off the money he is going to need for his defense in federal court.

#3666 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's only if he ignored it and pressed on anyways

That's the "Insiders" email that I got.

Federal court is supposedly next.

Quoted from YKpinballer:

Well then people better get lawyers to send demand letters for their refunds before he spends it in federal court.

As any (good) layer will tell you, people ignore demand letters most of the time.

#3671 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Yeah but it sets a precedent on who has claims on his cash assets.

Won't matter, there will not be a penny left after federal court.

#3673 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Psst vid, tell Sally that Bob said she's cute!

She says she's involved with Sharron.

#3676 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

If the money truly was being held be PayPal as promised then there is a very good chance PayPal has caught wind of this and has frozen the funds themselves (whether Fox requested it or not). Kevin may very well not have access to the money right now and simply cannot issue refunds even if he wanted to.

No one would be dumb enough to leave the money in a Paypal account.

They are not a bank, they are not FDIC insured.

#3681 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Were'nt those Kevin's exact words? He stated he had a close relationship and agreement with someone at PayPal and everyone's money was safe?

So....Kevin has a close relationship with someone at Paypal who will bend the rules for him, he has a license from Fox, his uncle is Roger Sharpe, he donated a kidney and skin to a child who was in a fire.....

#3699 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Cabinet guy has been lying too and probably is sitting on a lot of the $$$.

A cabinet is just a cabinet until you put a decal on it.

If the cabinet maker is just delivering black, blank cabs.....no harm there.

#3704 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

So you are suggesting he withhold peoples money for his personal defense so he can pay his lawyers?
I'm thinking he would be in a better position if he refunds all the money vs keeping it. This should be obvious.

His federal court battle with FOX will bankrupt him completely - that is for his willful copyright infringement.

Fox does not care about any investors, or any refunds on pinball machines.

#3709 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I don't care what Fox cares about.
What you are suggesting simply compounds his problems. If he refunds all the money, he has eliminated his main problem. Having one problem (Fox) is better than two (potential fraud allegations by more than 200 people).

If he refunds the money, he won't have the money for his defense in federal court against Fox.

Like I said, whoever brought it to Fox's attention, totally killed the chances of a refund for everyone else.

#3712 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

So you are saying that Fox will still waste their time and money to pursuit further even the game won't be made and all the money gone/refunded, so no damage done or money made of their IP? That makes so much sense.

It's just like the MP3 cases where sharing 20 MP3s had a judgement of $675,000 - and that's separate from the $98,000 in attorney fees.

The RIAA did not care that it completely bankrupted the individuals.

The important part is making a grand statement.

#3714 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yeah, cuz I'm sure that Kevin was right on the edge of issuing refunds to everyone right before Fox found out about it.

Fox found out because "mr X" called their licensing department and pointed them at SkipB's website.

Prior to that, Fox said they had no idea at all about the project.

#3716 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You don't seem to understand: keeping the money will make it *worse* for him. Those lawyers that he pays with money he got from Predator buyers won't be able to help him much if he doesn't refund the money, so what's the point of keeping money to pay lawyers if he's going to lose anyway?

You will see.

It is two separate things.

The Fox case is supposedly already filed. That means Kevin will need to retain a mighty expensive legal team for that case first.

All the money will go into the toilet for that, Kevin will probably have to declare bankruptcy.

#3717 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Well then more reason for Kevin to refund so there is no money incentive for Fox.

Fox will want to make an expensive example.

The actual money recovered is of no importance.

Do you think anyone had $675,000 laying around to pay those MP3 cases?

#3720 5 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

I doubt Kevin is seen anywhere.

He is not going to risk a lynch mob by showing up anywhere.

He was not at OH this weekend, and you know he won't be at MI in 2 weeks either.

#3722 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

It would have been so much better if FOX found out when a dozen or so made it into the wild and they got wind of one from YouTube or a show....

If you think about it, there were plenty of show pictures for years all over the web.

We think that pinball is some giant thing, but only a few weirdos are really into it.

#3725 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Well then if a suit is already filed how can Kevin legally use our money? Wouldn't he be fighting a court case with stolen money? Its not like the money he took was a gift.

Does an attorney representing a drug dealer ask if their retainer was paid with illegally generated drug profits?

#3736 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Keeping the money makes zero sense from Kevin's standpoint. It makes things worse. Lawyer or no lawyer.

You've see the house that Kevin lives in.

Even if he sells it, he won't have enough cash to pay for his federal trial.

Where do you think he is going to get the money for his defense?

#3742 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Fox could have easily told them that there was a license and that's the end of it.

One could call and ask if Predator was available for licensing in a pinball machine. If the answer was "YES", you could simply hang up the phone.

OR, one could call and when the answer was "YES", then direct Fox's attention to the SkipB website and laugh with delight.

#3749 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Best course of action by far is to give as much money back as he possibly can, as soon as he can. Fox can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.

That would be great, but you know things will not be great............

His counsel on the federal case will not likely work for free, so they will not likely advise him to go in that direction.

#3757 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

And that would be bad advice, especially given the obvious conflict of interest for doing so. I'm sure that the State Bar would take huge interest in something like that. I have a hard time believing that a lawyer would be stupid enough to recommend that he keep the money so the lawyer can get paid. Kevin could go to the State Bar, sooner or later, and that attorney (and possibly the entire firm) would be in deep shit.

Kevin will not get attorneys to work for free in a federal case like this.

He will have to pay them a gigantic retainer, because they know he won't have a penny left after the case goes to trial.

It's not like getting some "family attorney" to represent you in court for $10,000.

#3759 5 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

Fox is not going to waste a dime on Kevin, they sent him a letter that scared the shit out of him and that was that.

Those secret emails do not say anything like that....

#4463 5 years ago

In 10 years, what do you think the 3 Predator prototypes will be worth?

#4472 5 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

After the trial, they will probably be destroyed don't ya think?

They are fun games.

I hope they escape before the feds kick down doors

#4661 5 years ago
Quoted from pinmanguy:

Wow are houses really that cheap in Michigan? I should move there.

There is a reason houses are that cheap in Midland......

Midland Nuke Plant.jpg
#4665 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Look up how many lottery winners are bankrupt

Look up how many lottery winners BECOME bankrupt after winning...

#4924 5 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Dunno about the claim that Skit-B closed their PayPal account...I just ran his e-mail:

SkitB.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Try sending $1 and see if Paypal refuses it.

#4925 5 years ago
Quoted from PinB:

The PayPal rep I spoke to stated that they were into the pinball hobby as well

I wonder how big Pinball is in India?

#4944 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

All it takes is 1 person to start a lawsuit and send him to jail.

I'm not sure if any of you guys have ever taken someone to court who owes you money.

You win the case, the judge orders the defendant to pay you $3000, the defendant ignores the order and never pays you.

The person does not go to jail because they never paid you....there is no debtors prison.


Now if a criminal case is brought against Kevin, then there could be jail time involved, but then Kevin will certainly spend any money he has left on the retainer for a federal criminal attorney.

#5165 5 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Isn't she a witch?

She turned me into a newt.

#5271 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

now I have to go to netflix and see if this exists. Thanks for that.

This is all I could find for you guys

#5289 5 years ago

The Euro guys will actually make a big profit if their money is ever returned (assuming it is returned before the dollar weakens again).

Coming out ~$1,000 ahead would rock, yes?

#5927 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

assuming his accounting is anywhere close to being in order, this should be a very short and easy process...

That's funny.

#5928 5 years ago

I suspect that Kevin needed the deposits for Experts of Dangerous to refund the then failed Predator.

Kind of like another boutique manufacturer needed deposits for the second game in order to complete and ship the first.

#5933 5 years ago
Quoted from Nexyss:

Were there actually people that ordered Experts of Dangerous?

I don't know. I don't remember hearing that the deposits had started.

It didn't interest me, so I did not follow it.

#5935 5 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

Let me guess he'll start issuing them in ..... two weeks

Kevin by now has probably hired a criminal attorney for the federal case.... and maybe a bankruptcy attorney too.

Both attorneys have probably told him to sit tight:

Stop sending out crazy emails, and don't send out any refunds until the judgments have been rendered.

#5941 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Did I miss something? What "federal case"? I have never heard anyone claim Kevin is being prosecuted or even sued by Fox.

AG emails claim that Fox has begun the process.

#5952 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Can you post the AG email that stated that please? I'm curious to read it. And did they start the process for criminal prosecution or to go after monetary penalties?

Allegedly criminal.

I don't have permission to publish any of the emails (the same reason I did not publish them when I first received them).

#6071 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm crossing my fingers that Pinball News puts out an update story today with Kevin's official response to all outstanding concerns. Seems like 4 days should have been enough time to write up his responses to these questions:

If Kevin has hired his attorney, I'm sure they said "No more talking to anyone!!!".

First thing an attorney usually does is tell you to shut your stupid mouth.

#6076 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

But wouldn't that same attorney say "Hmmm, well nobody has filed an actual lawsuit against you at this point ... so you probably should refund the money as fast as possible because that IS WHAT YOU PROMISED YOUR CUSTOMERS." Otherwise, he's just opening himself up to a couple hundred civil lawsuits, no?


It can't go like that.

Kevin will have the Fox federal criminal case first, as that is already in the works.

As much as he would love to refund the remaining money, he would love to keep his ass out of federal prison even more.

(Can anyone imagine what the prisons are like in Michigan???? Filled with friendly faces from Flint and Detroit?)

So no doubt, he will spend all the money he can possibly scrounge on his criminal defense, then declare bankruptcy.

#6085 5 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Vid you sure have a hard on for people not getting anything back, is one of your buddies in the top 12 of the builds or what?

I just would like to temper everyone's expectations.

Anytime you involve the criminal courts, any "common sense" solution goes completely out the window.

People here are talking like "Well he said swiftly, so I'll give him till Friday to refund my money".


It's kind of like "Well, I'm a college student, so they can't expect me to pay too much for sharing 30 songs" and then they are fined $600,000 for violating the IP and $90,000 in legal defense costs.

You've got to prepare for the worst.

#6087 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

What's the evidence for this statement? I'm sure you realize that Fox can't bring a criminal case against Kevin, right?

If we believe the AG emails, then the Fox is already filing in federal court with the Intellectual Property Theft Enforcement Program.

Then they will probably go for a monetary damages in a separate case.

Again, the emails are anonymous, so take it as you want it.

#6090 5 years ago
Quoted from jasonp:

Kevin must love reading this thread so he can weigh all of his options and what all affected people are saying and doing.

He is gathering all the free good legal advice here from all the internet attorneys.

#6108 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I just got off the phone with Paypal and the lady told me that the SkitB account has the funds to apparently refund all people and transactions.


Kevin really does have a secret deal with Paypal !

#6109 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Kevin is still talking, trust me.

At least you know he has not spent the money on an attorney.

#6164 5 years ago

$20-25 per game said Roger.

#6179 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Is there an chance that those that did not send any money might also receive a refund?

Stranger things have happened.

Quoted from limelime20:

"I've sent Kev my request for a refund, even though I never gave one, just for the outside
chance, he is so disorganized/deranged, I might get it."

Even all the thumbs downers have to admit they though about it.

#6224 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinfidel:

For all you Stevie Tyler and Boob lovers out there. Here's your fix.

That's what happens when you take estrogen every day.

#6282 5 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

Hey I played this game last year at MGC and it went into a ball search after the first ball.

I guess you have never seen any game where it goes into ball search?

It happens even on brand new Sterns.

Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

The 2 center targets you mentioned had too large of a gap between them. The ball got stuck each time I made a shot to it. Keviin would just take a magnetic tool & give me the ball back. With being such an up-front shot, this happened quite a few times.

Same thing used to happen on a bunch of games like F-14.

Takes about 2 minutes to adjust.

Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

With any ramp shot I made, the ball would just fly off 2/3rds the way through since the ramps were much too shallow.

The final ramps worked fine AFAICT.

Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

Do they work better than they did at the expos?

If a game is ever going to break, it will be at an expo so you can be embarrassed. Low line voltages, super hot environment, constant 4 day play. An excellent test of your maintenance skills - just like the old 24 hour arcade days.

Every mechanical part on the playfield was a Williams design, easy to service.

#6284 5 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

And concerning the ball getting stuck between stand-ups, s1500 added "With being such an up-front shot, this happened quite a few times" (voltage has nothing to do with that)

Why would it have anything to do with voltage?

You adjust the spacing between the 2 targets.

#6311 5 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

It doesn't, that's my point. Why did you bring it up in the first place? Read what you wrote in your first reply: "Low line voltages, super hot environment, constant 4 day play". A stuck ball has nothing to do with those.

I was not listing solutions to playfield adjustment problems. Obviously I was listing the conditions that make a show the best torture test for any game.

Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

And to place 2 stand-ups at such a place is a poor design creating a ton of bricked shots as seen in those videos.

Tons of games put those deadly risk/reward targets in the same place. F-14, Pokerino, Comet, Silverball Mania..... Did you actually put some real time in on the table, or are you just quoting other people?

#6331 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

we are still talking about this shit? I just came here for the pictures of boobs.

#6456 5 years ago
Quoted from Kevgascan:

Has anybody thought about calling Skit B's local news stations and giving them the details on a story happening in their own backyard. I would say if several people called, they would look into and maybe help out in some way. They could put pressure on local or state authorities to get something done. All it would take is a persistent reporter looking for a big story to take this over the top.

If the TV cams are in Kevin's face, all he is going to say is that under advice of legal counsel, he is unable to comment at this time.

#6536 5 years ago
Quoted from cooldan:

just 159 posts to go

gif eating-watermellon.gif

Old, but Tosh found the best watermelon eating video ever:

#6538 5 years ago

This guy has collected 77 million for his 1/2 built game since 2012.

You can buy a $10,000 "Wing Commander" package now that gives you 44 virtual ships in the game (if it ever gets made).

The release date keeps getting pushed back.....


#6585 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Does Martin not consider himself a reporter?

Any good reporter has to fact-check all his info before he can publish a story.

So the next installment of the Predator story won't get published until he has "a story".

and if Martin was in Texas all weekend, he has that story to publish while the events are still fresh.

Quoted from PinChili:

Does the AG group think they have no responsibility to continue providing information at this point?

What new info do you think AG has?

If nothing has happened in the last two weeks, there might actually be nothing to report.

#6630 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

And- If they even PLAN litigation- I'm not sure they'd be inclined to make any public statement.

All the media companies WANT public attention when they go after people for IP stealing.

It will cost them more to sue Kevin than they can possibly recover, but they need make an example for all the other geeks.

Same thing for MP3s, porno movies, pirated copies of AutoCAD.....

#6653 5 years ago

$150,000 for each porn movie.

I could probably film 10 of them for that....


#6655 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Of course most important is that everyone gets their money back. I would estimate that Kevin has spent less than $150K, possibly less than 100K so to get the prototype built, purchasing parts he now has on hand (which can be sold off), traveling to shows, etc. That is certainly not an outrageous amount for him to borrow from friends, family, etc. in order to be able to pay back all the money he has collected.

A man who lives in a $50,000 house is never going to be able to borrow $150,000 from friends or family because he could NEVER pay it back.

#6658 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Personally, I think you're greatly downplaying Kevin's deceit. Good intentions or not, he flat out lied.

He lied.

We all get it.

#6661 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Looking at your Avatar I hope not.

In the porn world, 100 year old man with 18 year old chick is second in popularity only to black man and white chick.

#6662 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Never/Ever is a long time. I once lived in a house worth not much more than 50K, and now my pin collection is probably worth close to that. Things change with time. Not saying it would be easy to raise that money and then pay it off, but he needs to find a way to do it, to make things right.

If Kevin had the skills to earn more money he would not have bought a $50,000 house.

99% of people buy the most house they can possibly afford.

He's got 3 kids, so he would want them to grow up in the best possible neighborhood, not a $50,000 hood.

I agree that it would be great if he had a way to make things right.

Maybe bankruptcy will be the fresh start his family is going to need.

#6667 5 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

He didn't buy the house, his wife did...

I know.

But, if you had 2 pennies to rub together, you would not let your wife buy a $50,000 house to raise your kids in.

22 year old, single guy living in the hood, that's OK.

Family of 5 living in the hood, not so good.

#6668 5 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

I don't think business purchase order money or money under investigation can be applied to a personal bankruptcy case.

He never registered a business of any kind. Not a Corp, S-Corp or even a DBA.

It's all personal.

#6672 5 years ago

Look how many lottery winners file for bankruptcy......

#6683 5 years ago
Quoted from HomeBrew:

I have enough money to collect pinball machines, but I must live in a slum because my house only cost $50, 000.

Let's run with this.

Family of five?

Would you honestly be able to borrow $150,000 cash from friends and family ?

#6694 5 years ago
Quoted from HomeBrew:

Does it matter how large of a family I have, people seem to think a $50, 000 dollar house on Pinside is a slum house.

I'm sure there are areas of the country where $50,000 will buy you a perfectly good home.

But in Midland MI, a 2 bedroom box is $82,000 and even a trailer is $76,000.

You don't exactly want to put a family of 5 in those areas....

82000 Midland MI.jpg 76000 trailer.jpg
#6700 5 years ago
Quoted from HomeBrew:

My youngest sister, who is 19 years younger than me, and probably is about the same age as most Pinsiders, is very happy that her two sons, two daughters, and their families all live in the same trailer court as she does. My sister works two jobs and can barely get by.

I think you have stretched my point way beyond any implication from me, lol.

My entire point was that if Kevin lives in a $50,000 house with a family of 5, he is not going to have any way to borrow $150,000 "from family or friends".


The fact that your sister and her offspring live in a trailer park is not important to our discussion.

#6702 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I may drop PayPal completely after this

Not a bad idea at all.

#6707 5 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Anyone consider that maybe Kevin lied about how much the house cost?


When you look up his tax records, it shows that Amanda bought the house for $28,000 in Nov 2014 and it has a taxable value of $39,000.

#6717 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Damn Vid, are you part of the AG?

Autonomous Group?

#6720 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Anonymous Group

Only the cool kids get to be part of that

#6723 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

AG= the group that anonymously contacted Fox. Vid, the way you have been chipping in with info I am surprised more have not speculated that you were involved.

That would not be my style, because I'm not a narc.

I would have WAY rather seen Kevin send these games out under the radar.

Parents would tell their children about the bootleg Predator in the basement, like grandpa used to talk about the secret floor panel in his bootlegging car.

#6725 5 years ago

Fox did not have even the slightest hint about the game, until it was pointed out to them.

Predator had gone to a bunch of shows, and had lots of pictures on the web for years.

#6758 5 years ago
Quoted from ledge:

for starters, paypal would not, and have no rights to invest this money elsewhere...

Back when Paypal was free (yep, I was there in the beginning), they told everyone that they were able to provide the service for free because they were investing the residual money that was in everyone's accounts.

It was the first question on their FAQ

#6764 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

But he was stealing. Theft of other's IP is not a victimless crime. It's wrong and it's a major problem for studios.

Sadly, there is a strong current of pussyfication in pinball collectors today.

Pinball was a mob-run, quasi-gambling, dick swinging business for the majority of it's lifetime.

When Bally did Space Invaders, they directly stole the monster from the hit movie Alien (ironically, another Fox property, lol).


And when Williams did Baracorra, they directly stole the classic H R Giger face:


And when Stern did Quicksilver they stole the art from Heavy Metal (the friggin' cover yet!):




Stealing IP is what made pinball cool.

#6772 5 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

But you notice none of those games have the same name as the original IP or have the voices and video clips stolen directly from a movie.

There were no voices or video clips back then to steal for Space Invaders.

Games did not start talking until Gorgar.


The main thing that was practical to steal was the image on the backglass, and they brazenly stole it.

fonzy and shirly.jpg

#6794 5 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

he also doesn't live in his mommy's basement

C'mon, you can't make fun of someone who is living in their mom's basement if the name of their "company" is Some Kids Living In Their Mom's Basement.

#6892 5 years ago
Quoted from zaphod:

So what part is the Kevin I should focus on?

Just focus on where your eyes naturally lead you.

#6911 5 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

But no more pointless pictures of the women any more.

shut up.jpg
#6961 5 years ago
Quoted from GameJunkie:

Anyone know if the follow up article on Pinball News still coming?


#6967 5 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Internet speed > real world speed .. Two weeks is indeed nothing.


Quoted from vid1900:

People on Pinside want instant responses, of course.
But in the real world, a criminal federal court case can easily take years.
Then, when that's over, Kevin will have to file for bankruptcy. That will take many months too.
Everyone will get a legal form to fill out for their claim, and the courts will divide it up.
No one should be sitting by the phone for a call from Kevin; "Hey buddy, I've sent your refund today!"

#7115 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Fox would have eventually found out about the game.

They would have never found out.

Predator has been on the web for years, Kevin hit up all the major pinball shows, gave speeches, had websites up, posted videos on Youtube - Fox never knew.

Even if Fox found out years from now, there is no practical way for them to go after the owners.

- "Hello, this is Fox, we have information you own a unlicensed pinball machine from Scat-B !".

"I'm sorry, it burned up years ago. Can you believe those things were not UL listed???"

- "Ummmm......OK, thanks for your time".

#7130 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

They would show up at your door with police.

LOL - that is all the police have time for, driving around town breaking down doors to recover bootleg iPods, fake hologram "UL listed" Christmas Lights, fake PS3s and of course, my Spader-Man doll......

spader man.jpg
#7137 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

The music industry went after users for their intellectual property.

The industry went after people who were knowingly distributing their IP.


If you bought a Predator, believing that it was a licensed product, Fox is not going to come to your house and take it from you.

Fox has known about Scat-B for over a year, and they have not busted down Keven's door, nor did they show up at any Expo and take the game.


#7139 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Which government agency is responsible for intellectual property theft?
The FBI.
I wish people would stop acting like it's no big deal.

Call the FBI right now and tell them about Predator pinball.

See if they think it is a big deal.

Star Ship Bally.jpg
#7143 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I'm sure Fox has contacted them.

What makes you so sure about that?

Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I just don't understand how anyone can defend Kevin.

The only one defending Kevin is you, with your ignorant statements.

The rest of us are just trying to educate you how the legal system works in this country.

#7145 5 years ago

Change your silly New Jersey Devils too, because I'm sure you don't have permission from them or the NHL to be using it.

Stop violating their IP!

#7153 5 years ago

At this point, I would have gladly taken a kit and put it together myself.

Give someone the parts and have it done in a day or two.

#7156 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

There was no license.

How do YOU know this?

#7157 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Everyone who says I don't understand the law, are people arrested before or after they go to court? Last I check, one can still be arrested before going to court. In court, is when one gets their sentence/punishment.

Do you get arrested when you go to court for a civil lawsuit?

How much law do you understand?

#7158 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Everyone who says I don't understand the law, are people arrested before or after they go to court?

Quoted from Trekkie1978:

They wouldn't be left alone. See Napster from 15 years ago.

Out of the 15 million Napster users, how many got arrested?

#7163 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Stealing is not civil...it is CRIMINAL.

How many Napster users got arrested?

#7177 5 years ago

Every Holiday Inn has internet now.....

#7208 5 years ago
#7228 5 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

If every single person suddenly bum rushed Kevin for a refund would that have gone smoothly?

Yes, kinda.

Kevin would not have the money to refund, but VISA would.

#7242 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

and have not heard of any issue with anyone confronting him. At least not yet.

Why would anyone confront him?

He's just going to tell you that he has not been involved in the project in years.

There never was an actual corporation registered, so it's not like he got "bought out" or is sitting on a pile of shares.

Any money Kevin still owes him for his initial contributions he is never going to see.

#7299 5 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

He does not and will not get a pass.

#7306 5 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Well at least we know he, or at least his bank, is still alive!

They disputed my claim.

#7326 5 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

think Pinside needs to do what Disqus did, and that's removing "Downvoting" as a whole. Only use the "Upvote" which is more productive and does not generate hate between two users. Probably half of the arguments on Pinside happen because of downvoting. Sorry but that's the truth.

We need downvoting, because sometimes people give tech advice that is totally wrong.

You've got to downvote before someone damages their game.

#7328 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Then leave the "disagree" option for technical forums only?

Sometimes it's just quicker to disagree, than to post the reasons for disagreeing in any thread.

#7649 5 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

Seriously now...after all of this whining nobody has yet contacted an investigator at the ...... State Attorney General yet?

Have you ever seen Michigan's Assistant Attorney General?

Here is Anderson Cooper interviewing him (beyond insane):

#7706 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Actually, I think those who have read this entire thread need T-shirts . . .

Who wants to call Fox for the license?

#7801 5 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

But there is no way, or at least it's extremely difficult for a manufacturing company to be non-profit.

#7803 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

(Furthermore, neither of those two entities would be legally able to market a Predator-themed salad dressing without a license)

Newman already did that with his Predator Popcorn.

#7823 5 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

If this is fed time he could be looking at a life changing event and more than 10 years in the penitentiary.

This is excellent!!!!

His 3 little girls will grow up without a father!!!!!!!!!!!11

#7824 5 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Time is running out... do something, start refunding people for real...or this will turn very ugly very quickly.

Too late now.

If it's gone Federal, every penny of deposit will need to go to a real lawyer's retainer.

#7842 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I'm not sure how that works, our claim is he absconded with our funds under false pretenses and used our money for his personal use; if his answer is to abscond with the rest of it to pay a lawyer a retainer for his personal use he may be digging himself an even bigger hole.

Even if it went the other way, the end result is the same:

Kevin has no Predator money left.

He mortgages his $20,000 home to pay a federal criminal attorney.

Now he has less than zero to make restitution.

#7844 5 years ago
Quoted from JonH123:

I think this post needs one of these to avoid confusion.

Usually the !!!!!!!!11 is enough to signal sarcasm for anyone who's been on the net for more than a year.

But, let the thumbs down roll, bitches!!!!!

#7849 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

you'd be surprised how easy it is to spend what seems like a very large amount of money...


I've let more money slip through my fingers than I could legally earn in 2 lifetimes.

Got nothing to show for it but a smile on my face and scar on my butt.

#7852 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

once it blew up he had to do the right thing and he did not. Not one refund.

He can't make any refunds until all the chargebacks come out in the wash.

Think about it:

1. Everyone who paid by CC (smart), Debit Card (pretty dumb) or directly through Paypal linked to bank account (really dumb), is now working on getting a chargeback of some kind - this will take months.

2. When all the chargebacks have finally finished, PP will charge $20 or so for every chargeback they had to process.

3. Then, and only then, can there be an accounting of any remaining PP balance.

4. PP locked his account long ago "special arrangement with PP". So now the remaining balance will have to be unlocked for refunding. This will take time, too.

5. Anyone who paid by check has probably had their funds handed over to a federal criminal attorney to try to keep Kev out of jail, so he can't refund that money until after the trial. I'm sure he will have to mortgage his $20,000 house too for legal fees.

6. Like they always say, "Once the lawyers are involved, no one wins except the Devil".

#7855 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Day one he sends 10 refunds.

From what money?

What if refunded money to people who had already started chargebacks?

#7889 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

No offense vid I usually like your posts but this thread is no place to add sarcasm about his kids to draw some kind of sympathy from the victims.

No offense taken.

If everyone started agreeing with me, I'd start to worry.

#7907 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

If Kevin really is as delusional as he appears, his kids may actually be better off not having him around.

No doubt.

First Kevin robbed our pockets for the game money, and now he robs our pockets for the next 16 years to pay for the Welfare that his wife and 3 children will now receive while he is in prison.

It never friggin' ends with this guy....

#7919 5 years ago

Yeah, if Kevin was a supervillain, he would have had a better plan - take 1000 pre-orders, oversell the 1000, then announce a LE version, then announce a 30th anniversary Ruby Red version, send all the proceeds to Isis so he can get his 7 virgins....

#7949 5 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

I don't know all the facts well enough to make a wise opinion on jail

Forget jail, I hear there's room at Gutmo with all the recent deaths:


#8030 5 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

How did so many get so mesmerized?

Because it was a real game with finished code.

People went to the expos, they played it, they liked it.

It was not a Kickstarter, it was a finished game.

Even if Kevin had just assembled 2 a week himself in the garage....

#8045 5 years ago
Quoted from asay:

It's amazing that someone so stupid in every other area was able to build a decent original pinball machine from start to finish.

It's just like the old saying "The world's best mechanic is not necessarily the best garage owner".

#8061 5 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I think that the more trouble that Kevin sees is coming his way, the more likely he is to start taking action and refunding everyone.

Sadly, the more trouble he sees coming, the more money he will need to hold onto for big legal fees.

#8067 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If Paypal has actually frozen the account, he can't use those funds for legal fees.

With all the chargebacks in progress, he really can't refund from Paypal anyway

#8114 5 years ago

If you are heading up to the armpit of America, make sure you see the Henry Ford Museum and then head to Slow's BBQ

#8116 5 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Those are our top 2? lol.

"The Arcade" might be gone by the time he goes to court, as they seem to be cutting back hours and selling games.

Pinball Pete's is great and open till 2am.

Slows BBQ got #2 in the country on travel channel.

Henry Ford Museum would probably take more than a day to get all the way through, especially if you like mechanical things.

Rainbow Health Spa in Grand Rapids hits all the right places if you like those little Asian broads.

Detroit City proper is nice if you want a taste of 1945 Berlin.

#8140 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballKen:

Also lived in Indiana for a while and I can assure you, Gary IN. is the armpit of America.

Gary is a crap pile, and did produce the world's most famous pedophile; Michael Jackson.

But Detroit is still 65% abandoned and untaxable; and is officially murder city USA.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure which is worse......

detroit cock city.jpg