(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#188 4 years ago
Quoted from Jedidentist:

There was a picture posted in one of the 15 other threads created in the past 3 weeks...it showed a bunch of cabs being made. I believe the number of cabs already made is well above 100.

I'm a preorderer, I've been reading all PRED threads. Must've missed that picture!

#191 4 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

They were just black virtua pin cabs. You didn't miss much.

Ah.

1 week later
#216 4 years ago

Where are the conspiracy theorists now?

All kidding aside, great news. GO TEAM PRED!

Rick. "I'm gonna have me some fun." #190

1 week later
#281 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

So where are we on the panic scale? Calm, cool, agitated, concerned, terrified or Scared Stiff???

Project was probably derailed due to folks not sending in money as expected, I dunno. Whysnow will be getting his pin soon enough, then we can reassess the situation then.

Until then It's just a communication issue, as folks have been getting their belated refunds...I certainly wouldn't be having a run on the banks. Boutique manufacturer, risks are there. No risk=no reward.

I would probably get my $4750 back if things changed, but I'll play a wait and see due to a strong risk tolerance.

-1
#284 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Does anybody know if the game will be a Predator™ or Predator?

You're not starting the license debate again, are you?

#286 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Does anybody know if you are a "whack job" or a Whack Job™?

Don't mess with The Tedster. He will totally take a Teddy and Tedally Ted you up.

Ted.

#290 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I'm just Tedding around...

I'm totally Tedding ya. No Ted! I'm being absolutely Teddily about this.

Now if we could just get out Tedator pins we'd be happy.

#305 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yes...let's get back to Tediosity!

IMG_3418 B.jpg 55 KB

Now that's what I'm Tedding about!

#343 4 years ago

Well, I'm sticking it out with Skitb. If I get my PRED, awesome. Risk and reward, but also cause and effect could go either way.

Will Skitb produce and sell, or be the victim of a mass bank run?

Regardless of Their feelings on Pinside, they should show progress emails soon enough or they may have problems. Unfortunately, folks with years invested seem much calmer about this storm than folks with months invested ( or less).

I understand the mob mentality focused on the poor communication, and I agree to an extent, but if the guys invested for years aren't running, take that bit of info into account before deciding to bail out.

VD pinball was a mess/scam from hour one. SkitB is not. Not close. Not yet.

#368 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Hmmm, if you mean I call bullshit when I see bullshit, I guess you're right....
However, in retrospect SkitB has made JJP look like a model of customer communication!
I get that its easier to attack the messenger, but it doesn't diminish the fact that only a fool would think things are "ok" with Predator....
The fact that pinside was used to perpetrate this farce should be an insult to everyone here. However, I understand that some here would rather everyone keep quiet in the hopes that they will still get their (potentially) unlicensed machine before the truth is known.
Keep denying and attacking the critics.... but Im confident that either:
1. Skit-B is the single worst customer service operation EVER, or
2. There's a run on the bank and they are just stalling everyone, or
3. They f'ed something up seriously with the license, or
4. All of the above
No other scenarios even remotely make sense.

Lowepg, do you have one on order also? Seems like you either did or presently do?

10
#423 4 years ago

I gotta admit that if Skitb is looking for waiting list replacements if/when a preorder drops out, without ANY info or reference to the title at all, would make an odd business.

Kinda like 'hey kid. Wanna buy a pin?'

image-984.jpg

10
#428 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

BTW, I want this entire pre-pay model of pinball to wither on the vine. VC is available to those who appreciate and practice generally accepted business practices. I don't think there is another industry in all of commerce that expects it's customers to pony up start-up capital (and then shits on them once they get the checks).

Yep. After the PRED drama is over and done I'm not preordering again.

TBL? Looks awesome. Build em then we'll talk. No carpet? Fine.

Aliens? Sounds killer. Build em. How's Full Throttle? One at a time hotshot.

#431 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

kickstarter is a giant success for a big reason.

Not on Pinside it is. Just ask Vonnie D.

That incident pretty much stuck a knife in preorder madness and sliced off the head of VD pinball in the process. Both good for pinball.

Startup pinball makers are gonna have to find their financing and take the risks themselves from now on. Success is there for great designs. Rest will falter. That's nature; no more shortcuts.

#436 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

If you send an email to pre order experts of dangerous you might get an answer back.

I wonder if anyone has tried that? If they got a fast response that would not sit well at all...

#482 4 years ago
Quoted from NoahFentz:

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed!
Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!
Speculation can now rest.
Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.
Thank you.

Could you identify yourself for the masses kind sir...

#486 4 years ago
Quoted from NoahFentz:

Paul Maletich
President - VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc.
http://virtuapin.net

Thank you! There you have it folks. Confirmation of cabinet builds. Charlie@Spooky confirmed contract for 250 pf's. So things are progressing.

1 month later
#698 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

At this point, I wish I could come over to their shop and spend a week building my own game.
Just give me the parts in a pile and I will happily do all assembly.
Very glad to see some partially populated pfs and we alreayd know some cabs are done so parts are coming together.
Next I want to see a stack of vacuum formed and clear ramps on the topside.

Not all about you! Start building mine too! Chop chop!!

If I didn't live 1/2 a country away, I'd offer my services and tools to the cause! image-426.jpg

1 week later
#718 4 years ago

Ease down the drama gents. We preorder guys ( well, me anyways), get it.

Paid in full here since 2013. It's a small startup. They stink at communication. Things are FAR behind schedule. First world problems I guess.

Last email was ok, so far, so lackluster, but snails pace is better than no pace.

#767 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Lets see how accurate your numbers are, how about you give it a try and report back.
First, take one of your games completely apart, an early 90s game (or even late 80s) would be a reasonably similar level of complexity . Remove every single thing from the playfield, and also disconnect all wires from sockets, solenoids, etc (this is not a playfield swap).
Now put it all back together!! Since your plan was doing 5 games at a time, and this would only be 1 you only get 1/5 of a day per day, so, I guess that actually means, you should be able to complete the entire week/game in a single day. And hey, not like you have to worry about dimples and drilling holes (and there are probably a ton of molex connectors and the like you don't have to deal with). In addition, I'll even cut you some slack and you don't have to re-trim and wire the cabinet. Heck, you don't even have to do QA -- although you may want to
I'm sure everyone wold like to see photos of the process, and since taking photos will slow you down, you can add in an extra hour of time for that, I'm feeling generous.
So, are you up to the challenge? Anyone else?

Unfortunately they aren't taken 30 year old games apart. It'd be more like here's this:

image.jpg

And build it into this:
image.jpg

1 week later
#917 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

In reality, it suggests that the one with the fewest assumptions is the most likely correct. Therefore, the answer with fewest assumptions is that SkitB is building machines.
Is that naive? Perhaps it is. I may have my head in the sand, in the clouds or in my anal orifice. I'm sorry, but these arguments have gotten way past old. I made the choice to support this fledgling company and purchase their vision of a Predator themed pinball machine. No one twisted my arm or placed a gun to my head; the decision was mine entirely.
I fully expect to get the machine I ordered. If not, it will have been an expensive life lesson. I would surmise that there is not one person among us that has not had an expensive life lesson at some point in their lives.
I will continue to support SkitB until they prove they are unworthy of the trust placed in them. That is my choice and that choice (and the consequences attached thereto) can only harm one person; me.
Phil
#229

Amen brother!!!

I'm in til I decide I'm not. Gonna see how this plays out.

-3
#960 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

I like your post a lot, and agree with nearly all of it: except this part. "It only affects me" is just not true.
Lets be clear, the games are going to be made and shipped as promised: eventually. So... that really is (likely) the end of the story save for some grumbling about time delays...
But if it's not...
It wont be "just you" that it affects. 250 people don't get hurt here... an entire industry does. Even now, already without too much real reason, its widely considered on pinside that the "pay first, get the game later" model is dead or near death. Anything going wrong with Predator will not only kill it with authority, but it will kill similar used business methods by other manufactures.
No one... no one... will ever be able to pre-fund an idea on pinside and make a machine 12-36 months later... even if the theme is DD beach babes VS zombie nazi's on dinosaurs. The success or failure of this project... even the part before the success and failure... (like the emails, communication, refund requests, photos given, timelines etc) are all affecting downsteam the willingness of any pinhead to support any idea up front. Its true.
Should skit-b fail for some reason... they don't just hurt 250 pinheads... they kill the entire business model for everyone. No Wrath of Olympus, no time-shock!, no Alien Pinball, and many more...
Thankfully... the odds of this happening are pretty low. Skit-B will eventually put our Predator, and there will be much rejoicing and happiness. That's a good thing.
That is the reason that "non owners" are interested in this thread and have a valid reason to have some concern. We may not be in the "direct blast zone" like the 250, but we are certainly in the "radioactive contamination zone" that the blast would create. And by "we" I mean "every one of us".
So lets hope that no-one drops the bomb.

Not true. Half life had it correct. The damage from SkitB bailing will only be localized to us payers.

The preorder model was bashed to death by Stern's learning curve, TBL and the 'who's money is it anyway?'
MMR with delays and btw, no coin mechs, no refunds policy switches...

Sterns learning curve...( so important it had to be said twice).

-2
#964 4 years ago

Preorder with a distributor. Say you want an LE. Tron. You order with distro, get pin, btw, has single coin mech. Don't like it? Too bad.

Say you want TWD. Get it, as it's the LE or Pro. Told point blank no premiums, ever. Then bam! Month later preemies being built. THAT preorder model.

#1014 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

BUT, if that Forbidden Planet machine was announced...I'd pre-pay immd...

Goddammit Ted! You're making it VERY annoying to keep away from preordering here.

FP is an uber cool theme!

1 week later
#1103 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Raise your hand if you're on the waiting list.

Thought I saw Lowepg raise his!!!!

#1104 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

There is no definition of 'soon' that will satisfy me. The only thing that will keep this project alive (for me at least) is solid playing pins shipping within a months time. I've been positive on this project from day one and have done my best to help where I can. That said, the time to deliver pins is now not at this or that date in the future. I'm number 6 in production & when/if I get the pin you will all know about it.

Coolness Dude. You've been great on this project from the beginning and deserve dibs on opening up the first PRED! Here's to hoping Kevin gets em made up soon. Next update needs to be great I think.

#1111 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I *was* ..... but after falling in love with Experts of Dangerous, its hard to commit to Preorderator.

Lmao. Good one!

#1127 4 years ago
Quoted from sensfreak:

I admit that I am a little nervous after receiving that email.

Email was odd. Def interested to see how this plays out.

I'm continuing to support SkitB. Pin looks kickass and I want it.

#1130 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Email was odd. Def interested to see how this plays out.
I'm continuing to support SkitB. Pin looks kickass and I want it.

I think if Kevin wanted this email posted here it would've been. I'm thinking they don't.

#1169 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I've seen the email, but I don't want to be a dick to the people who've sent it to me, so I'll summarize:
Things aren't great, there are nefarious forces out to stop the project, but Kevin is committed to everyone, and you should watch out for more info. But in the meantime, feel anxious.
I wish I was joking, but that about sums it up. What a weird email to send. It would have been better to just stay not communicating then send that message.

Not what I read Aurich.

#1218 4 years ago

Aurich, I just don't see a need to feel anxious if SkitB is either gonna build the pins for preorders or refund the rest.

That's all.

Whysnow, take it down one notch man. You're stressing out here. So far so good.

Let's see what happens in next few weeks.

#1263 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That doesn't make you feel anxious? I mean, great, say you can get your money back. Cool. Is that what anyone really wants? Well, maybe now they just want their money back. But I presume that people who paid would rather see the pin.

You'll probably see a story on this on Pinball News sooner rather than later. But you don't blame the journalists for covering the story, they just report the news, they don't create it.
It's like trying to blame Watergate on the reporters, instead of Nixon.
Beyond that though, the premise is just ridiculous. Does anyone here thing they could stop Stern from shipping WWE by making a few phone calls?
"Hey, um, is this the WWE office? Uh, does Stern have the license to make a WWE game? Oh, they do? Uh, could you like, take it away from them? I don't like wrestling."

I never invest more money than I am willing to lose.

Besides, PRED theme is awesome and if there is even a small chance I'm getting one I'll stick it out.

Anxiety is saved for friends and family concerns. Sometimes work too, but other things in life are much more important.

I always respect your integrity Aurich, you're a stand up guy in my book.

Whysnow just takes a more zealot approach to his views. Gotta admire his passion, if nuthin else.

#1273 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Hey, not a bad philosophy. Sometimes people drop out of my projects for personal reasons involving family etc. I always tell them it's just pinball, focus on what's important.
I won't lie, I'm curious about this all. I've followed this project from the start, it's hard to not want to know the ending. I'm not rooting for a crappy end either, be much cooler to see people posting gameply videos of their new game. It's just that it's feeling hard to see that being the outcome. Sometimes you gotta just call it like you see it.

You and me both bro. I have a feeling this coaster ride hasn't hit the top yet.

#1277 4 years ago

Well, if pinball news has something to add here, it would be appreciated.

Martin is a great guy, I'm sure he has a clue what's going on by this time.

#1285 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

lol, sorry, that's two names, Hilton = whysnow, didn't mean to make that confusing.

So Kevin invested into Mumbai hotel chains????

#1372 4 years ago

Charlie emery confirmed he was contracted to build 250 pf's. When I asked if he actually built them, no response.

#1515 4 years ago

On the Tedosity scale,

Two weeks= awesome.

Wait, scale is a skewed.

Everything=awesome.

Feelin the Tediness. Totally Tedding right now.

#1629 4 years ago

Words of encouragement. Much better gang.

Two weeks or so and then we get to see what's what.

#1906 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

He did a good job of bragging that he has facts and information that we are not privy to. He did a great job of rubbing that in and I have no idea why? Perhaps to show off? Make it sound like he has a grasp on more "behind the scenes stuff" than us and further causing the audience to be attracted to him? TO make the audience "crave" more? Come back time and time again? Sounds just like what Skit B did on this forum? They both should not play these games. Just say the facts and all the BS would stop. I promise. If everyone just stated facts or kept their mouth shut if they do not plan on sharing...I promise, the drama would be gone! ***POOF***

Looks like you're spouting plenty of drama there, stranger.

Did you also order a PRED?

#1908 4 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

I see your point, but these people 'in the know' might've promised they wouldn't pass on the info, so that is understandable. I wouldn't either.
If the only concern is the information being 2nd or 3rd hand, or unverified they could simply give a disclaimer saying so...but sharing it could also help derail the project so I can see keeping it under wraps for that reason too.

nature abhores a vacuum...

So does human nature. Without input from SkitB or Fox, rest is heresay and conjecture.

We will see what Kevin has to say for the project soon enough and if not soon enough, well, folks are gonna bail. And looking like rightfully so.

I will continue to stick it out until clear evidence of either no progress or Tomfoolery comes up.

#1927 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Pinball? This is a discussion about riding a cheap dime store pony.

I've ridden worse. ( shivers)....

Worse...

Jenny Con? Been smoking hot since forever. Quietly so though. No room posters like Farrah, but couldn't NOT watch her movies, no matter how bad.

#1931 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

You've ridden worse than a horse? Sheep?

Lol.

More like when you drank entirely WAAAY too much, not enough to quite throw up but enough to black out, then woke up with that bar fly you vaguely recall before you drank WAAAY too much, that your asshole pals dared you to talk to...

That.

#2172 4 years ago

I like where this PRED thread is headed!

image.jpg
#2277 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

I've always heard red heads are evil.
Is that true ?

I'm married to one.

Yes.

Yes it is.

#2285 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Mine is very nice actually.

So is mine.

Been with her 30 years next year. Wow.

#2287 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Grats!
Officially 24 years next month but we went out for 3 years before getting married.

You too!

We're actually celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary, started dating years before. She was actually the most stable woman I ever met. Has her redhead side, but compared to those ex gf's... ( shivers)...

We never celebrate these things, but this year should be special I think for her.

Oh yeah, and do some of you REALLY expect timely blow us away update next week? Really??

#2301 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Wait no longer. Peace everyone.
yUbVF.jpg (Click image to enlarge)1

Sigh...

My wife. 25 years ago.

I'm gonna wager that Kevin is running out of time on substantative update info. Natives are well past restless, into draw and quarter time.

#2461 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I thought that the beauty of Photoshop was that you can be anything you want to be. Today I wouldn't mind being a fire-breathing unicorn, because that looks pretty cool.
One thing that I'm sad about is that I'll never know if my NIB Predator was going to have a pony hidden inside.

Don't be sad Blondie...

If I had $4750 Id buy you your REAL pony. But...

Keep in mind that you need to take care of it! That means wash it, feed it and clean its poopies young lady!!

#2463 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

I didn't expect an update by today. If they don't come out with one by the end of the week that will be bad...

Money out of our hands, no product, poor communicado.

Define 'bad'.

#2470 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Worse? Really bad? They used Ted as a mouthpiece and if they make him look foolish that's worse than saying nothing at all IMO.

Ted dies we riot!!

Well, not actually 'die' per se, it's a TWD reference..

#3099 4 years ago

I'd like succinct answers on where my (almost) $5 grand went towards and if I'm getting my pred. Haven't liked the last few emails, but willing to let Kevin explain. Just be honest Kev. You're still a decent guy, one of us. Just share. Yeah, I'm confused and upset. That's life. I'll get over it.

#3117 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

what's your favorite color...

Omg! Made me laugh my ass off! Thanks Lab!

#3123 4 years ago

I really don't think Kevin had False or fraudulent pretenses at all, so bringing legalese here just seems too preemptive.

But Kevin does need to respond to folks requesting refunds. 50% or more given is a sizeable amount to most, even more so to others. I'm committed to the fact that my $4750 is probably gone, and I'm fine with that; but I would like two things:
1. Refund the money to those waiting for refunds. If my $4750 helps get them that much closer to it, Use it towards that goal. Yes, I want my machine assuming it gets made, but others may be in more financially dire situations than myself.
2. Answers on what's really going on.

#3361 4 years ago

Wow. Calling the police? Well, 5 weeks, no response from anyone, owed $4750? I can understand why, but couldn't Aaron let Kevin know people are beyond upset now? Would seem a slightly less drastic course of action.

This can work either way. Fear of serious charges gives SkitB motivation to get things done, or,

Skitb says F off and folks fight for refunds. ( bad idea making things worse Skittles, don't let emotions dictate!).

-1
#3429 4 years ago

If I'm willing to give Kevin some more time to sort things out, so should the rest of you. Please guys, just take things down a notch. What's a few more days now?

For those of you waiting for a refund for awhile, let's see how things play out in the near future. You've waited this long, a bit longer is needed.

Aaron, thanks for trying. But without answers I'm guessing anxiety has a hold. Kevin has an uphill battle, no doubt.

#3445 4 years ago

Cooler heads will prevail.

#3446 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Aaron, I know you want to help man, but you should just stay out of it. No one is going to calm anything down but Kevin. The "wait a few more days" thing has been played too many times, people don't have any patience left.
With all respect to you, or Ted, or anyone else, people don't want to hear about how you've been having talks with him, not when he refuses to communicate with his customers.
Internet sleuthing, talking about people's wives, all that? It's a horrible idea. No one should engage in that, it's not going to help anything. What's done is done, the truth just needs to come to light.
I've been told the Pinball News story may appear early next week, maybe that will help. But regardless of what it says, if you want your money back, and who can blame you, then you should focus on positive steps. It's sure as hell not calling the cops.
Start a list, see if you can figure out who all has money in on this. It sure isn't 250 people. You're going to have to decide if you can be happy with taking a fair % off everyone's deposits. Because if one person gets a full refund, and someone is left at the end getting nothing (even Whysnow, I kid I kid) that's not fair.

I have patience. So should you Aurich. Practice what you know Aurich: Awesomeness.
Everyones input is appreciated, remember that.

#3449 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Haha, you're the one guy who keeps popping up going "eh, I can wait".

Welcome back from the dark side.

I invested in SkitB as a startup pin maker. Boutique. Risky? Yep. Not over yet boys. Let's see what comes of all this.

#3453 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

That was just my assessment. That it sounded more like guidance on fair use. I did not mean to imply that Kevin was attempting to leverage fair use. Kevin has already stated things needed to get worked out more formally, so I don't need to get involved here.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
PS: I hope nobody thinks I am condoning the way Kevin has handled any of this. It's been a total shit-fiesta. There were so many mistakes and missteps, not uncommon to many first time entrepreneurs, just very public and with a whole lot of other people's money at stake. I just always try to use any engagement I have in situations like this towards something productive.

Don't let Aurich use his heavyweight Pinsider advantage Aaron.

He's such a bully.

It's all cool til it isn't. Kevin starts on requested refunds from months ago, that'll buy him street cred.

I'm still rooting for the underdog, so I'll play this out hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

#3455 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You sound like you are back stepping a bit. If all goes well who cares but if it's a bust you showed up here helping paint the picture that it's all good and that will carry some weight.

More like Aaron trying to calm the mob. I get it.

#3472 4 years ago
Quoted from pmWolf:

It was temporary.
As stated above in my last post...question us all you want, just please do it in the Moderator Feedback forum.
Pete

You're never gonna be a Demi God if you keep all this human being shit up man. Just sayin...

I like our mod squad.

image.jpg

#3482 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

you mean after they finish laughing over beers ?

Rotflmao! Labnip! Your one liners man!! OMG!

#3493 4 years ago

Same here. PRED next to Aliens? Hello??!?! How cool is that??

#3651 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If FOX takes him to court, there will be NO money left to distribute at all.
Not one bit.

Cannot understand why Fox would be entitled to other peoples money at that point, unless they wouldn't of been told about it and started proceedings to collect funds.

I want me PRED pin, but man, after this shitstorm, not sure I'm gonna ever get it? I'll wait to see what Kevin has to say for his situation before I decide finally.

#3766 4 years ago

What in hades are you guys going on about? MR X? Secret emails? Com'n.

#3785 4 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

For the record, Vid you are making no sense.........Rob is 1000% correct.

No one is correct about whatever is going on until they find out what's going on. As a paid in full PRED buyer, I'm one of quieter ones here.

You guys are seeing conspiracies everywhere. Chill out my pin brothers til we get answers from those directly involved or their immediate contacts.

#3792 4 years ago
Quoted from jiffy:

Well, it's Saturday. So you're SOL.

At least these theories are entertaining. It'd be better if I wasn't financially mired in it, but...

#3793 4 years ago
Quoted from jiffy:

Well, it's Saturday. So you're SOL.

Btw, don't screw with my quotes. Against PS rules. I never called anyone lackeys!

#3798 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

That he never had a license to build predator is not a theory.

Don't know and really neither do any of us. Not yet anyways.

Amazing the plethora of personalities that come out in a time of crisis.

Nothing shows a persons nature better than putting them in a tense situation.

#3801 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

That denial crap isn't going to fly anymore. Aaron said straight up that Kevin showed him the "license" he was talking about, and it was not in any way shape or form a license deal for manufacturing pinball machines. It was just information on how any person with no signed deal could use the likeness of predator.
If you are saying Aaron was flat out lying, then say that. Don't say "nobody knows," because that's bull plain and simple.

First off, stop trying to put your version of a spin on my words, you're entertaining at it, but not THAT good.

Second, you know what I meant. You seem hellbent on being belligerent, so enjoy that. How much did you invest?

#3805 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Actually, denial of facts doesn't require me to spin it. It either exists or it doesn't.

Yes, I object to your assertion that none of us know what is going on. I think you're just wrong.

I may be wrong. I may be right. ANYONE who knows anything probably won't post to an angry mob.

And I'm not denying anything, condoning anything either, and we're not presenting facts, not YET. All I said was until we hear from those directly involved. Even Aaron said he wasn't involved, just providing assist info to Kevin.

And you didn't respond to the question of if you put into a PRED purchase.

#3934 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

This is all I know about Martin's article:
"He has committed to start writing the final draft of the PBN editorial this weekend, to be finished hopefully by tuesday or wednesday at the latest... with likely publishing on wednesday or thursday."
I'm willing to wait until then. The emails I can't verify everything in. Martin's article I imagine is going to be carefully written, researched, and bullet proof.
Let's give him a chance to present the whole story, before I leak things that might not be 100% legit. If doesn't publish then I will, I promise.

Sounds fair to me. I don't have any pie in the sky notions on this project, just was trying to support a boutique pin guy was all. Went bad, Martin will give us some info next week. He's a great pin supporter, so he's trustworthy.
I've found out quite a few things about some Pinsiders in the last few days, and in a time of crisis, some I would bet my life on, some I would keep an eye on and a few that are only out for themselves.

Serious ignore options in the future.

#3937 4 years ago
Quoted from wrig54:

At this point I'm more interested to hear from the anonymous email group than Skit-B. I don't see getting any real information from Skit-B but I really wonder why this group is doing this. Why are they doing this anonymously and if they are so concerned about the owners, and pinball in general, why have they sat on this information for eight weeks without sending it to everyone?

Martin's article comes out soon enough. No cryptic emails from Kevin or anonymous private messages to Aurich, no conspiracy theories from Pinsiders. Just up to date happenings.

Like I said before, I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

#3942 4 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

just got back from the Ohio show
logged in
1300 posts since Thursday
I'm a PIF owner and I plan on reading all of it, but if some one can post or pinsidemail me a brief summary, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance

Succinct pm sent.

#3945 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

HA!!! An obvious LIE! NOBODY works on this project over the WEEKEND!!!

No, no... It's true. I got an anonymous email that verified Martin is involved in talks with a guy who said he knew Aaron in high school that had English class with Kevin and was overhearing all kinds of stuff. Stuff...and things...for reasons.

Alright, before Lowepg starts demanding proof, and YKpinballer starts altering statements, I'm kidding. I'm allowed; as I took a (potentially) huge loss here. We will see.

#3965 4 years ago

I'm just curious how many more posts in this thread until Martin releases his info.

Including my .02, I'm saying, about, uhm, 491 more.

#3966 4 years ago

What's the over/under? One way to bet my money back!

#4052 4 years ago
Quoted from Jedidentist:

Myth busters is a neat show, but it's run it's course. This statement of disbelief, "I can't believe they'd sign on with Skit-B" is rather silly because what do they have to lose? Do you really think some other company would give them any money for a pin license? We're talking a D-list show/title. Those guys aren't billionaires, so if someone pays to fly them to a show and gives them a percentage of the action...why not? It's no different than all the actors that do autograph sessions at conventions. A better title would've been Pawn Stars because those guys are at least more interesting and more current. Regardless, the choice of title, artwork, and follow-through does show a continuation of poor business decisions. However, my $3k is still with Predator and I'm drinking the Kool-Aid that it will still come to fruition. Fortunately, I'm in the position where that $3k isn't going to make or break me and I knew the risks going in.

You and me both. I'll wait for Martin's article, then see what happens. Maybe Kevin will send another email in the interim. Lots could happen; or nothing.
I just want my pin and put this mess behind me. I've got no judgements on Kevin, because there are a shit ton, SHIT TON of highly intelligent folks on PS, and I am directly involved with that brain trust, so if Kevin managed to 'scam' anyone over this time, he would've been up against the Apex Predators of this world, accumulated in one website.

I'd like to think Kevin isn't that shady or smart . ( sorry man, but you'd have to be a friggen high IQ evil genius to pull that off here!).

#4058 4 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

It is really sickening to see people enjoying watching 250 fellow pinsiders lose $5k.
Do you laugh at people when their houses burn down, too?
Do you laugh at funerals?
Some people have mental illness.

No one was laughing or having fun here. ( other than the boob pics.)
He just didn't convey his thoughts correctly. It's cool.

#4064 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

He didn't pull it off, there have been people telling you what's been going on for years and you chose to ignore it.

Stop it. Just stop. You're presenting this thread as facts. I will choose to ignore something else if you keep it up.

Thanks for looking out for my best interests, I'm a big boy now.

I saw everything everyone else saw. My judgement is based on info from those involved. Fox studios, Kevin Kulek. Aaron? Not so much as he's been out since 2013.

And no one has 'pulled off' anything as far as we know until we know. And right now we don't know.

I'm sure there may be a few with inside info that were involved, Charlie Emery with pf's, Matt from back alley, maybe some vendors, but until we can collect statements from these folks and some others, nothing is proven.

#4075 4 years ago

You love throwing around certain words. Obviously, knowingly, ignoring.

Taking a step back, my turn to confront: I asked before, just curious, how much of your money in the PRED project is in potential jeopardy?

I don't know if Aaron was involved in anything other than r&d. Maybe he's the mastermind? Cmon man. How could I? You? Anyone right now? I get you're angry. I'm not as angry as much as disappointed in Kevin's handling of info and communicado.

So please just let us know how much you invested please, would go a long way to keeping your agenda valid in this thread.

Hi. My name's Rick and I was a preorder-aholic.

Edit: forgot there were two Aaron's! My mistake! Apologies!!

#4099 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

It's funny how none of the people who look at the evidence and are interested in finding the truth of the situation have asked me that question. But basically everybody who blindly defends skit-b and kevin jumps straight to it.

Yk, I'm not on trial here, and neither are you. So since you are skirting the question, I'll join the fray and assume none. No money. So in that respect, I would like to know why you are taking such a vendetta in this thread?

If you again choose to ignore the question, It will go a long way to turning your accusations around, and no one here wants that to happen.

The question is asked of you, by many as you say, because it is a valid indication of involvement in this project. I'm involved by sending Skitb my support in the form of $4750 in exchange for goods. Are you in the same boat? Are you one of us?

#4100 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

I made a point to put exactly what the payment was for, but doubtful it will help since he dragged out the timeframe past the 180 days you have to dispute with PayPal. So unless someone has guidance on how to handle it with the bank, I am completely handcuffed to Kevin...
Untitled-2.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

I'm sorry Nibbles.

You're not alone if that's any comfort at all.

#4107 4 years ago
Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

I don't have any money in this game. I'm here to find out what the hell is going on, like many of you all.
It would be great if kevin would tell us, but it looks like martin or aurich will have to clear the air. Why it hasn't been done yet is beyond me

But your also not being very aggressive towards those who play a wait and see approach.

#4111 4 years ago

-1
#4112 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

Your right about that Rob. Look deeper.

#4133 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

I've just been correcting people who clearly misunderstand the situation.

And now I'm reporting you to the moderators. Told you to stop screwing with quotes.

#4137 4 years ago
Quoted from Shorty:

I have been reading this thread with interest as most are. I don't have any "skin" in the game nor know anybody involved. From all accounts with everyone that knows Kevin he doesn't seem like a bad guy - just someone that got in over his head. He apparently made bad decision after bad decision but it seems like he always thought he could pull it off. Listening to the podcast he thought he had a liscense and when he found out he didn't he probably thought he could obtain the right one. Reading what Aaron from fast pinball said he is trying to work out the best possible solution. Stop reminding the pre-order people about the most dire scenario. They already know. If it were my friends and family that were involved I would discuss the situation with them if they wanted to and let it go. I would not keep reminding them constantly of their decision and pointing out the most negative outcome.

Well put. Thank you.
Seems to be quite a plethora of different views of what's going on. Myself included, we will see soon one way or another.

#4144 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

... I haven't changed any quotes wtf are you on about?

Reread my previous post, seemed you misquoted, but your just being, well, a something or other.

#4153 4 years ago

#4207 4 years ago

Shit. Here's the 'expecting the worst' part. Goddamit.

23
#4359 4 years ago

My apologies to those anonymous working on this license. I hold none of them accountable for 'tipping' off fox, as they stopped this fiasco, yeah, fiasco, early. Kevin's reasoning and recklessness has put my families income in jeopardy regardless of his original intentions.

I will not pursue my refund if it can be disbursed to others in this situation I offer it to them. Pinsiders are great and this is my way of paying it forward.

Rick Burnham

11
#5968 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You can also live in an outhouse... but we aren't going to change the expectation that most people here have running water. Seriously.. unless due to some former life choice you can't have credit - stop using debit cards and use someone else's money.

Or, and I'm just spitballin' here, we could all live within our means. Example: I use my debit card, PayPal uses my 'pp' savings account so they can't screw up my primary accounts.
I have a 10 grand CC, never use it unless traveling, which I do very rarely.
Debit cards are a great way to live well without worrying about paying interest at the next billing cycle if your late with payments.

#5978 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

huh?
using credit cards ≠ living outside ones means
for those lacking self control. yes, they can be dangerous, but dont lump us all into that category.
I probably spend $6-$8K per month on my credit card.
And I pay zero interest
And I accumulate far better perks than if I used a debit card
And, my purchases are far better protected.

I get it, but it's hard going back to using cc's after you've been burned by their crap over the last few decades.
I'm not a fan of cc's, regardless of perks, and banks either. I use a credit union for everything,local and small town atmosphere.
In this one instance I got burned on predator purchase. Not bad for 15 years of mostly debit card livin'.

#6030 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You don't pay interest on a credit card unless you don't pay your balance.
You don't worry about being late if you live within your means. You shouldn't need a hard limit like 'card declined' to know how to do that.
By using the credit card you can manage your cash flow in and out much better.. AND get paid to do it (1-2% right off the top).
Using credit cards does not mean 'spend more' - it means manage your cash flow better. There is no reason to pay cash for everything as a consumer when they are willing to take credit at their expense.
Debit cards are getting better with CC-like 'fraud protection' but you still have to deal with your actual cash being out or locked up... when you don't with Credit Cards.

I learned all this when I was 17.

My issue was back in 08 when I was living on paying off my Amex every month, interest free. Almost never used my debit card. When my bills kept being mailed out later and later ( post marked), finally, they whacked me for fees and late charges ( I paid online, same day I got my bill!), they fixed it, but then next month I got my bill 3 days after it was due! Finally cancelled it, and resumed using my debit card.

My wife ran into trouble in 01, was barely making minimum payments, she tried to hide it from me, turned into 10,500 bill with 28% interest! I paid it off, but they treated ME like an asshole during negotiations, and I told them the whole story, they couldve cared less. I paid full interest, ended up being about $12000 by the time I closed the account.
When I cancelled the card, 2 months later they were asking me to come back. Soured me BAD on cc's.

I've always had 740 and up credit and live well within my larger means. You'd be surprised how the money adds up when all you do is work and sleep ( when I can!).

Just like that 12 grand fiasco, this $4750 is considered gone, gone, gone! I couldn't take time out of work to chase after it anyways! My garage would collapse into a black hole without me there!!

#6031 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Give me a break. What I do with my money is my business and I definitely don't need people preaching to me about it. You handle your money your way and let me worry about myself. This whole financial judgement is a waste of time. I bought into predator with entertainment funds how I chose to buy in with my own cash, not some banks credit card is my business. I've always lived by cash is king and credit cards are just trouble to me. My wife handles the finances so im not going through the trouble of juggling credit cards. Predator was also the only machine ive ever bought through paypal so Ill chalk it up to a learning experience. The fact that people are getting chargebacks does not guarantee they will hold onto those funds if lawsuits are filed and money that kevin is sitting on has to be distributed evenly.

KC, I think you may be seeing insults where not intended. We'd be shocked at how many folks juggle hobbies and bills as if they are all the same. I know a few who make a bit less than me but are broke all the time.

Flynnbus could've presented better, but meh.

#6035 4 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Is this thread ever going to close?

Story ain't over yet. No ones gotten any refunds afaik.

#6043 4 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Agreed. But this thread went too far off topic. Stupid pictures have nothing to do with refunds.

I don't think so. Boob pics, complaining, venting, discussing, it's all part of the process.

Can't be just on topic ALL the time. Not possible with so many personalities.

#6046 4 years ago
Quoted from Monarca1091:

So is there new spots in line available to preorder it ?

Yeah, you can buy mine. 10k by Xmas, I promise! But pay me swiftly!!!

#6137 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

That's probably true, im just a little on edge since this went down, I hate to hear advice after hindsight. I don't feel like im an idiot for using a debit card vs. a credit card, they are for some folks but not me.

It's all good. I'm stressed over this too. Guess we process in different ways.

Let's not lose perspective of what's important, eachother.

Group hug!!

#6144 4 years ago

Gotta admit, awhile back, this thread was getting nuclear. Glad it cooled a bit, but it shouldn't get too cooled off until refunds are going. By the looks of things, mods are being super proactive now. I get it.

#6315 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

To answer my question you posted other people's comments on the game? Yes, there were problems at the Expos, but that's what a prototype is. License issue aside, do you think they would have let the game go out with obvious mechanical issues? I mean, that's the reason why the game didn't go out a year and a half ago. Well, I suppose your answer is yes, so I don't agree.
Basically, you're saying you didn't like the layout. Fair enough. I'm simply saying that the theme, sounds, callouts, music and scenes is why I got into the project to begin with, and despite what's happening now, I still long for a Predator pin. Despite a lack of shots, Skit-B had some good ideas.
Sorry I deviated from the bandwagon Bloodsport guy, but Predator would still be my ultimate theme, and looking back on the past week, money issues aside, I'm still just disappointed that Predator is over.

Me too man. Money's gone? Probably. But Skitb had some kickass ideas on PRED.

#6320 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Definitely agree on this. Lots of cool ideas and modes. I was really looking forward to it.

5 stages of grieving. We are in depression now?

#6327 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

F%^k that, I'm still angry. Especially after he straight up said he was not a liar, and felt horrible for putting everyone on this situation lol. I really want to see how far he will continue the charade, all the while still holding onto a sliver of hope that he has one iota of human decency and/or honor. If he doesn't, I'm more concerned for the well being of his three kids in the long run.

Funny Nib, you don't sound angry.

Any bets on if/when SkitB goes to any shows? Yikes!

#6352 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

This kinda falls in line with what Kevin told me so I believe most of the funds are still there, now paypal releasing them to Kevin is another problem. I just want this mess done. Im sure there is a big mess from chargebacks to claims to people past the 180 days. You would think all Kevin would have to do is supply paypal with the names and email of the people that he needs to refund and the amount then paypal should comply but it seems more like the money is being held hostage.

Possibility, but if seller makes little to no attempts to go through refund process, this can look like Paypals fault forever. Why would he? Refunds are HARD!

If there is no monetary or other motivations, most folks get suddenly lazy. Or legal counsel has advised not to act ( which could backfire if that's the case?)

#6354 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

This premise has been mentioned quite a few times. What would be the advantage of legal counsel advising not to act? Not trying to start anything, just wanting to understand.

Just parroting what I've read here. Agreed.

Saul-"whatever you do, do NOT give them their money back!"

Kevin-"...."

Saul-" Because you're going to need it. For council."

#6356 4 years ago

I just want this mess ended, one way or another, instead of stuck in perpetuity.

I have a feeling Kevin and PayPal will be pointing fingers for a while, and we are stuck waiting.

Or miracles happen and folks get money back suddenly.

#6358 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

How many of you have no problem forgiving Kevin if he makes good on your cash?
I know I will.

If there is one iota of truth to Kevin wanting to fight to deliver these pins to us, whether he succeeded or not, then absolutely I would forgive.

Let folks get thier money back, most or all of it, if all money returned then yes, Kevin is still one of us. He would've tried and failed. But if money is gone, or most spent, ( I'm inclined to believe not the case at all), then he should stay away forever, which would make this a true tragedy for everyone.

Would I sell my soul for $808,000? No. Not any amount.

Unless it's a trillion.

#6362 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You should have already filed with PayPal , filed with credit card and filed a police report . If you have not done this then it's hard to understand your position anymore.
If you sent a check file the police report so you have grounds for a possible tax deduction.

Me? My position? Already said I'm not chasing the money. If my $4750 can go towards other guys in this mess getting ALL the money back out of a potentially small pool of refund money, so be it. I've already written it off as a loss but closure on situation is my desire is all.
I've been stolen from and caught scammers before. This situation feels oddly unusual. Maybe cuz Kevin was so into the culture with us?

I get angry all the time. I've got a mean temper; this situation just feels sad IMO.

#6368 4 years ago

Well, if someone is willing to get the process in the form of a letter to PayPal, I will donate my PRED sale relevant information.

#6370 4 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Putting the PayPal issue aside, what about those that paid by check?
They have nothing to do with Credit cards or PayPal.... If Kevin is sincere, they should have their refund by now.
From here in the cheap seats, this looks like yet another stalling tactic from Kevin.

Quick question here:

If PayPal and or Kevin never give refunds at all, and Kevin barely touched the money ( supposedly), what happens to the money?

It would piss me off to no end to find out some 3rd party asshat has good timing and happened to legally obtain OUR money.
I paid initial $250 by check. Same boat for check only's: then who's got the money? Folks who made parts? Advertisers for pin shows? Parts get destroyed due to infringement? Friggen mess...
So if, big IF, Kevin cannot access pp for refunds, and pp says, "sorry, not your money!" and issues no refunds themselves, how would this ever end???

#6372 4 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

The Paypal supervisor told me if Kevin never responds or if he goes to jail, Paypal will wait until law enforcement contacts them to disperse funds.

Great.

Sooo long time if ever.

Sh*t.

#6385 4 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I don't have a horse in this race.
It's such a shame to see purchasers having to go through this mess.
As for the money that still exists for refunds...one topic I haven't seen is:
How much money did Kevin pay back alley creations for the parts they'd made for the machine?
I wonder how bad BAC is getting screwed in this fiasco as well.
Here's to hoping everyone gets FULL refunds from SkitB.

I paid BAC $250 for the two PRED skull/spine set. Not sure how many total were sold or made.

#6431 4 years ago
Quoted from sensfreak:

Can someone send me a link to the list?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attention-predator-buyers-list

Edit: beat me by a minute!!

#6528 4 years ago
Quoted from Cobra99:

Just called PayPal and tried to get more info. Asked if there was a bulletin or alert regarding Skit-B pinball or if a case was in the works. I also got it escalated as far up as I could. PayPal said any information regarding Skit-B is confidential and they cannot release. Got them to send me an to document it.
Dear xxxxxxxxx,
Here is the email you requested in reference to the claims you opened up on xx/xx/2015. Due to the time that has passed PayPal is unable to open claims on the transactions we spoke about. You will need to resolve this issue outside of PayPal. One method you can try would be to contact your credit card company and see if they will allow you to file a chargeback against this seller.
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxx
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Copyright © 1999-2015 PayPal. All rights reserved.

Same here. PP dispute rep is now informed of my case, and the 180 others. that was my main goal. They are aware of Kevin Kulek/SkitB situation, but could not say anything, other than Kevin is not ABLE to refund.

The guy did tell me that PP would refund the buyers and chase after Kevin for repayment if/when it comes to that. ( his words, not mine).

He also said my CC I paid with through PP can help, so I called my bank, they said 30 days, that's it.

At least my bank and PayPal are aware of this guys case added to the multitude of others.

#6555 4 years ago
Quoted from Vengeance:

I don't post here often but have been following this thread since the beginning.
I was game number 206 and had paid in full.
Just wanted to let everyone know I got my full refund, not from Kevin mind you, but from Mastercard.
I'm out the $250 deposit, which honestly at this point I'm fine with but the dispute through my credit card company worked and now Kevin has 45 days to respond and if he doesn't I'm free and clear. But really what could he respond with anyway.
They asked if I had details of the specific delivery date, I told them I didn't but I had proof of receipt as well as the email from Kevin saying the project is dead and I should be getting a refund and that was enough for Mastercard.
So I've got the tentative refund and assuming nothing changes I'm free and clear of this mess finally.
Good luck to everyone else

when did you pay off Kevin? Was it after April 2013?

#6561 4 years ago

Yeah, I was a year before you, so I had no shot of CC coverage. Thanks for info man.

#6563 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Now i KNOW you are just making a "April Fools" post!
Kevin = Bernie Madoff?
PBN = a news ORGANIZATION?
You got me.... well player sir.... for a moment I thought you were nuts, now I see it as a joke.

Well, he IS Pinchili, so don't rule out insanity

#6574 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Pinchili, It would appear that you may not know Martin personally, in passing, or anything about him.
First, since the Newsletter is Free, and he does so with his time, why does he owe you or anyone a follow up, especially if you are assuming he has more information, yet dispute any lawsuit information.
It is possible there is no news TO report.
Second, what will any report change? All this is in Kevins hands, and those that capitalized this
venture. What could be said that makes a difference...Kevin thought he had a license?, Kevin says he is
refunding money? Kevin says he has an attorney or doesnt? Fox files a suit or doesnt?
None of this stops the process or changes what needs to be happening now as it is.
kevin has stated its over and hes refunding....Last statement to be "trusted"....What are you hoping for?
Lastly, before you go further with Martin, his integrity is impeccable. He is a Gentleman,
His career is with BBC News. He wont put his foot in his mouth, slander, guess, gossip or anything.
Focus on Kevin...Not Martin, but if you believe there is more, perhaps you can invest your time
and get the "scoop" you are looking for.
I hesitate to post, because I wont battle a reply....but I think you should simply state what you are
hoping to hear....

TRUTH!!

#6623 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

No. No, I'm not "Kaneda" and I do not even know who that is. I made a comment that I really thought PBN should have had an update article by now but apparently everyone here disagrees. I get it. I already apologized once. I don't understand why anyone thinks someone would create a new account for making what I thought was an innocent post. I can't believe the backlash this has created.

Meh. Just enjoy your 15 minutes.

Its just internet jibber jabber.

#6625 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I didn't say innocent, and its just a theory. I still haven't seen any hard evidence proving anything the anonymous group has said. Why stay anonymous at this point? My own feeling is they don't give two shits about the community. If you're gonna blow the whistle on a company I need to know the people we are talking about here and their character, for all we know its a group of cons.
This statement is in no way approving of Kevin and his terrible business ethics, that is a separate matter and I don't want to compare the two.
The thing is if we sue Kevin we are gonna need some hard evidence and it would help to get that from the people that brought this to light and last I checked they are as silent as Kevin.

Martin from PBN put his rep on the line, so I'm sure he fact checked the AG claims. This is way to serious to just be disgruntled PRED buyers, or the Anti SkitB campaigners.

I was a hold out and tried to wait and see as long as I could, but between the PBN article and the lack of any responses via Kevin emails, I gave up.

Kevin picked a bad time to stay silent now. I just want folks to get closure on this.

#6628 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I agree.
Other then waiting for the story to change, all anyone can do is be supportive and empathetic,
to those invested.
Regarding those that are new, not invested, or comparing to RPG, etc....
Its more the sensitivity of those that are invested, have read every page of this and every thread, rode the emotional roller coaster...its painful, frustrating, and possibly a large financial loss.
Understanding that they need their feelings respected, supersedes, IMO, new thoughts on what has happened, and what should happen. They are likely tired and still hurt....at least many of them.
Understanding what they have been through, hopefully those not understanding ejects, or defensive
posturing etc, comes from the frustration of those involved and those who may have been part of it.
New conjecture, new finger pointing, rehashing ,any concepts only opens wounds that are raw.
I hope this makes sense, as it seems, new, otherwise innocent comments, get a tougher time on this thread.
People now want solutions, support, genuine news.....I think, IMO, as a whole, burnt on new, or non productive conjecture.
The correct answer to much of the rehashing is simply to repeat, "Ask Kevin"...nothing more.
In the absence of his responses, new input often wants to blame the messenger, and pages have already been through this, so its frustrating to read a new post, that is unaware of all that has transpired, hence the ganging up on, or dismissal of what normally have been a reasonable question.
A new poster, may not understand this, which is fine...but maybe, whats left of this thread will continue to report what people are able to accomplish in refunds, pro and con to help others,
any legal news, any supported New developments,
Dont take it personally...its simply a sensitive issue, not needing new, rehashing.

image.jpg

#6631 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

All the media companies WANT public attention when they go after people for IP stealing.
It will cost them more to sue Kevin than they can possibly recover, but they need make an example for all the other geeks.
Same thing for MP3s, porno movies, pirated copies of AutoCAD.....

Porn movies too? Uh oh...

Now is that FULL movies or just choice scenes downloaded?

A friend wanted me to ask, btw...

#6633 4 years ago
Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

You want that to happen. The actresses come for you

Wish Thats the way it worked!! I'd have my pants sued off!!!!

#6638 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

That's a lot of righteous indignation for someone who's only been here a week.

OH, SNAP!!!!

#6639 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Ill hug Rob Lowe! Thanks lordunder....sorry, underlord...perhaps it comes from generations in Pittsfield, Concord, and Lebanon...!
New Hampshire Humor....so few pinsiders from NH!
Now, the Porn industry..........................................

I'm just one dude, doing what I can... Btw, it's pronounced, New Hampsha Humah.

Ayuh.

#6641 4 years ago
Quoted from Gorno:

I'm screwed...

Haha! I see what you did there!

#6643 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Watch out Gorno, he's peekin in your windows!

Shaddup Nib, you're right next to me.

And for the love of God Gorno, fix that crooked picture behind your couch!

#6692 4 years ago
Quoted from HomeBrew:

I guess it is never to late to learn even when you are close to 70.

You're only as young as you think you are.

image.jpg

#6708 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

PayPal is not helpful for me. I may drop PayPal completely after this
When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some
specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't
follow these guidelines.
If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller
to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the
Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make
their buyers happy.
You have to open a dispute within the allotted timeframe. You opened your
dispute outside of the timeframe, so it was automatically closed.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services

Same exact auto reply I got.

#6791 4 years ago

So if the game was called Predator, did that make us 'predatory lenders?'

#6915 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

Oh, I see we're still posting chick pics for some reason. Here, let me contribute.

image.jpg (Click image to enlarge)1
image-59.jpg (Click image to enlarge)1

Thanks Blondetall. You've destroyed Linda Carter fantasies AND the Fifth Element for me in one post.
And now the boobs are gone too?!?!?
HAVEN'T I SUFFERED ENOUGH!!

#6922 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

(Glances down.) Nope, mine are still here. Must be a conspiracy.

Multipass multiball.

image.jpg

28
#6923 4 years ago

And now, back on topic:image.jpg

#6928 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Is it just me, or is Pinside becoming less fun by the day?

18.7 million Karma points. Nuff said.

#6987 4 years ago

My opinion is if the AG came forward months ago nothing would have changed, other than the AG not getting their refunds too, along with us.

That does nothing to better the situation, as most of us had already paid what we paid and, as far as I know, no one was paying anything more until proof of builds were being shown by Kevin.

Like I said, the AG getting their refunds really doesn't affect me. Not then, not now. It's really a moot issue.

#7169 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

LOL, no they would not. If you don't let them in your house, I'm sure the police would sit three units on your house for full 24hr surveillance too to make sure that pin doesn't leave your house without them knowing it.

Lmao. That's great.

Thanks Nib.

#7249 4 years ago

I lost my $4750. Risk taken, moving on. Even I'm getting tired of seeing this thread bumped to the top of Pinside. Let's move on. Please gang.

Kevin can enjoy the money. It cost him so much more than what he made.

Rick.

17
#7463 4 years ago

I'm still waiting for him to answer my emails. Anyone else?

He was right on top of emails when I was sending him money.

And when I emailed him that Pinside was angry at his lack of responses; got a response an hour later. Next day he started the whole 'two week update' crap.

1 week later
#8167 4 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

I'd like to see everyone collectively fund the hiring of a Private Investigator to follow Kevin around 24 hours a day, because it's completely legal, he deserves it, they can collect video and etc. where legally applicable, and I'd like to see him sweat a lot more.

Won't do any good now, as Kevin already is feeling in trouble and has no ( hopefully!) access to remaining PP money.

I got better things to do than follow around a dude who doesn't have his punk ass shit together in Michigan.

#8205 4 years ago
Quoted from movingpictures:

Apparently Kevin is being represented by this man:
wes.jpeg
I believe his name is Wesley Upchurch.

"With legal advice from W.Upchuck, who needs these other chumps?!" --K.Kulek. Entrepreneur Extraordinare Esquire III

#8222 4 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

I'm sitting on day 4 of a civil case for jury duty right now. Witnessing this its not worth filing a civil suitin my opinion. Im not impressed with the efficiency of this system one bit. Hopefully Kevin gets some sense and gets this refund ball rolling. keep holding to hear about my refund soon.

It's gone man. It's gone. I've let it go. I had to. Either that or be miserable over it. I've got a wife and kids for that!!! image.jpg

3 weeks later
12
#8621 4 years ago

Well, I consigned that my money was gone gone gone. I watched the unfolding of the legal system, no recourse, case closed, PayPal telling me to shove it. And my take on this is:

Oh well. Yep. Had to let it go. Risked and lost. I tell myself never risk more than you are willing to lose. Coulda had a tiny limited run of Pred, got a tshirt, thanks for playing.

Life is going on without my $4750. Amazing. don't let this sour you gents.

#8628 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

If you are ever in my area, it's pins, drinks and dinner on me.
Good people don't deserve to be shit on.

You got it Wolfmarsh.

#8787 4 years ago

Best of luck Enaud. Your intentions seem very well placed. Not money oriented, just hoping for oh, I dunno, actual truth about what happened. Seems stall tactic from Kulek's defense may backfire if Fox licensing says what we think they will.

New shit has come to light for plaintiff.

Let's say pieces come to play and it's checkmate. Another court date? Reopen case? what happens when defense perjured itself.

#8937 4 years ago

Nothing here either. But no biggie. So stoked some are getting helped!

#9071 4 years ago

I was in on PRED since near the beginning. Don't recall Noah being an issue then. What's changed? Just trying to figure out what's happening.

Guy took money from KK for cabs, stuff didn't happen, Skitb imploded, chocked up to shit happens, right?

#9082 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Glad to see some got refunds through whatever means happened to get them refunds..
Not glad to see that apparently a few of the remaining contingent are so bloodthirsty they can't seem to keep focus on the real target.. man...sh-ton of infighting going on in here.

Human nature. The timing is right. Pretty soon this fiasco will settle into the past tense. Not so much in-fighting as much as getting more details of how the money trail moved around.

#9088 4 years ago

We didn't know what we didn't know, because we didn't know it at the time. Skitb had the Pinside blessing, even I didn't think to question delays and lack of info. Heck, when Kulek pulled all the internet stuff, some whispers but no outrage at the time. Pack mentality. If most think it's ok, it's usually ok.

3 weeks later
-5
#9301 4 years ago

I lost full pop. $4750. Money is long gone. I'm not chasing it by racking up lawyer fees and time I don't have. Life is too short and I hold no animosity towards Kevin or anyone involved.

My family, income and home were never affected, so it's a non issue to just me.

#9303 4 years ago

Pinside is double posting... Weird.

#9305 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I've contacted Keith to sue Kevin for $4,750...

I hope you guys get what you're after. Best of luck gang.

#9328 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

How can you hold no animosity towards someone that lied to you? Repeatedly and on purpose?
Astounding to me.....
I tried to contact the lawyer in MI, but got no response from my email. I will of course be trying again.

I approached this the same as if I were in Vegas. I gambled, I lost. I hold no animosity to the casino. I grew up angry. Bitter. Hostile. Got into tons of fights just cuz. This loss isn't in my top 40 of aggravations. I still bust my hump for every dime, but my most cherished asset now is time. My son leaves for Norwich end of August, my daughter leaves next year. Right now these are my priorities. Not chasing a broke moron in Michigan who cares less than I do.

2 weeks later
-32
#9396 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

DON'T give UP! There are options and at minimum we all owe it to the hobby we love to make his life a living hell for the foreseeable future.

Why? What will that accomplish? It's over. Kulek has nothing. Move on.

2 months later
#9600 3 years ago

Trust in Lloyd. He speaks truth.

#9628 3 years ago

Well, what would be a persons options if said person bought a known illegal item from a private sale? Cops are busy with real crime work I'm sure.

#9630 3 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

IF the Fox IP attorney gets his name and address, Fox can confiscate it since it's unlicensed. Not a speculation. I spoke with him in person several months ago and asked the specific question about one of the pins getting out in the wild.
Hey Kevin, you're in contempt and still owe me a settlement. Oh, and interest is accruing.
Cheers.

I've won in small claims court myself. Never got a penny from the theives, and they couldn't of cared less and never showed up in court. It's a very overwhelmed litigious society we live in with tons of cracks for the insects to thrive in.

#9835 3 years ago
Quoted from pmWolf:

I'm sure someone will step up soon that knows the guy. MA isn't that big.

I know a lot of collectors in mass, Maine and NH. I lived near, around and in Chelmsford. I don't personally know any collectors in that town.

#9907 3 years ago

Keith will get a judgement in the plaintiffs favor, money owed, none will be given out, and Kulek will continue doing what he's been doing. I know. I've dealt with and LIVED with people similar.

My niece is not a good judge of character. She was trying to marry a dude who was shady at best. My entire family wanted me to co-sign on a loan for the wedding. $15,000. He spent $5,000 on the wedding and tried to start a drug empire with the rest. ( I found out later!). He wasn't successful, I was stuck holding the bill and they divorced 6 months later.

He's still working under the table 7 years later and living great. Sooo... I didn't see the Pred scam coming mostly cuz of others here paying into it, so in herd mentality I did too.

Moral: Kulek will never, ever pay out and will not go to jail, lose any sleep over this and feels no remorse. I wish Keith success only to try to give some closure to the plaintiffs.

#9922 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

just to make it clear, if you are someone that paid into this crapfest then do not let comments like this ^^^ keep you from getting involved in cases against Kulek/SkitB/ et al.
Many people have not looked into the details and have no idea what they are talking about or where the money resides (and legally how it can be gone after).
Still time to call KiethinMI and get a free consult. most of the legwork has already been done so your personal barrier to entrance is very small.

I want you to be absolutely right Whysnow.

I am not investing into this case for my own personal reasons. Emotion got me into this mess, not logic, so for my personal anger management I needed to move on, I created my own closure by letting the money go and not trying to recover it. I've tried the system and been even angrier after time lapsed and nothing happened. I've got enough to aggravate me already in my life.

It is not my intention to sidetrack or condone apathy, it's just my way of dealing with this bad decision. This was a special case to me BECAUSE of my excitement in it.

So please for anyone not involved with Keith yet, give him a call. I wonder if the reasons are similar why others haven't called either?

#9925 3 years ago
Quoted from jasonp:

I cant believe this guy was able to get so many to trust him with their hard earned cash.
I wonder if the same folks would of hired him to cut the grass or even given him the time of day had he knocked on the door??
I feel bad for everyone in this situation and I know if he keeps popping up at pinball events he is going to get his ass handed to him.
He thinks hes a bad ass and is obviously a self centered looser who has no regards for others.. Including his own family..So sad.
kevin.jpg

It wasn't him I trusted. It was the others who had already bought in and endorsed him. I could've cared less about Kulek.

I just wanted the pin. I waited for over 8 months before I joined in, watching the thread and the others here excited. Heck, even a moderator ( or more than one?) fell prey.

So to keep my pinball excitement alive I had to admit my shortcomings.

#9950 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

for me, my action feels better than inaction did.
In other words, the costs (emotional, time, money) are all worth it for me personally.

There you go. We all process differently. Good luck.

#9955 3 years ago