(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#4986 4 years ago
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1 week later
-8
#6744 4 years ago

Not looking to offend anyone, but what reasons did people have for investing in this game?

I completely understand doing a pre-order with Jersey Jack, he's been in the business long enough to have full confidence in the game coming out.

11
#6974 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

Has Kevin shown any remorse? Any restitution?

In general, pathological liars have no remorse.

12
#7066 4 years ago

Unprofessional = defrauding money from people into a machine that could never be built.

#7082 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I know if they had openly told the story about Skit-B when they knew it I could have received about 80% of my money back. Oh well lesson learned, im done with this hobby.

Don't give up on pinball. Purchase machines directly from a distributor.

I know Stern isn't everyone's favorite, but they do have the best business model for the community.

22
#7113 4 years ago

The AG people don't matter.

At the end of the day, they actually did everyone who had ordered a Predator a huge favor. Not from the sense of being out money (I hope everyone gets a refund), but in the sense of owning stolen merchandise.

Fox would have eventually found out about the game. Their lawsuit would start with Kevin, but not end with him. The next targets would be the 250 Predator owners. Fox would come after you as well.

Stealing is stealing. There's no way to defend Kevin, so please stop going after the AG. At the end of the day, they saved you from the Fox legal team. Fox would not only want the machine, but they would certainly want damages, and don't forget the legal costs you would incur.

The law is very clear. Stolen property is stolen property. It doesn't matter if you obtain it legally.

There's only one person in this whole fiasco who doesn't care about the 250 people…Kevin. He lied, and lied, and lied, and lied, and lied. He knew what he was doing. No adult can claim ignorance in this situation.

Quite frankly, I wish I was part of this community several years ago. The biggest red flag was when Kevin claimed to be a nonprofit. My background is in accounting/finance. That was the biggest sign that he was running a scam on everyone.

-7
#7117 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

They would have never found out.
Predator has been on the web for years, Kevin hit up all the major pinball shows, gave speeches, had websites up, posted videos on Youtube - Fox never knew.
Even if Fox found out years from now, there is no practical way for them to go after the owners.
- "Hello, this is Fox, we have information you own a unlicensed pinball machine from Scat-B !".
"I'm sorry, it burned up years ago. Can you believe those things were not UL listed???"
- "Ummmm......OK, thanks for your time".

That's not how it works. They would show up at your door with police.

-5
#7121 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

LOL, no they would not. If you don't let them in your house, I'm sure the police would sit three units on your house for full 24hr surveillance too to make sure that pin doesn't leave your house without them knowing it.

Yes they would. PayPal, credit card companies and bank would be court ordered to hand over all the information. The only thing not traceable is cash. The other 3 leave a trail. It would not be hard for Fox to find out who the owners of the machine are.

Think back 15 years ago to Napster. Napster had a court order to hand over the information. Here, it is even easier, because PayPal, credit cards and bank have zero reason to delete any information.

They will show up to your door with a warrant. It happened to people who downloaded songs. Don't think it can't happen to you.

#7135 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

LOL - that is all the police have time for, driving around town breaking down doors to recover bootleg iPods, fake hologram "UL listed" Christmas Lights, fake PS3s and of course, my Spader-Man doll......

spader man.jpg

Napster.

The music industry went after users for their intellectual property.

#7138 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The industry went after people who were knowingly distributing their IP.
-
If you bought a Predator, believing that it was a licensed product, Fox is not going to come to your house and take it from you.
Fox has known about Scat-B for over a year, and they have not busted down Keven's door, nor did they show up at any Expo and take the game.
LOL

Which government agency is responsible for intellectual property theft?

The FBI.

I wish people would stop acting like it's no big deal.

#7141 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Call the FBI right now and tell them about Predator pinball.
See if they think it is a big deal.

Star Ship Bally.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

I'm not the license holder.

I'm sure Fox has contacted them.

I just don't understand how anyone can defend Kevin.

-1
#7154 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

I am not. I think they've been pretty insufferable, and I don't buy their moral crusader bullshit either, especially given what I have read about how they were actively taunting Whysnow. I like everyone else have my suspicions about who it may be, but they are just suspicions.
I personally wish they would just come out and own up to it. I get not wanting to be the ones known for "killing the project" and that's why I give them slack for letting PBN vet the story and post it on their timeline, but the continued secrecy is just piss-ant cowardice. Not everyone is gonna like what they did, but their original excuse doesn't hold. Kevin admitted he couldn't build the machines anyway, and that the license "wasn't what he thought it was". So they were right. If you know you were right, just own it.

There was no license.

He stole intellectual property and committed fraud by taking money from customers.

Kevin deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law.

Everyone who says I don't understand the law, are people arrested before or after they go to court? Last I check, one can still be arrested before going to court. In court, is when one gets their sentence/punishment.

-1
#7155 4 years ago
Quoted from KingDaddy:

One does wonder - and of course this is pure speculation - what would have happened if no one ever asked about the license issue... Would Kevin have gone along in his blissfully naive way - under the radar - and produced all the machines. (I doubt it - I'm sensing that he was a total mess and never was going to pull it off.). But, if he had - and everyone received their machines - then I'm assuming they could keep them. And then Kevin alone would eventually be under legal fire for copyright infringement.
But the Predator owners - not unlike a guy purchasing a fake Rolex on Canal Street - would be left alone.

They wouldn't be left alone. See Napster from 15 years ago.

#7159 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

How do YOU know this?

Um....it's been reported.

-1
#7160 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Do you get arrested when you go to court for a civil lawsuit?
How much law do you understand?

Stealing is not civil...it is CRIMINAL.

#7187 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

You really don't understand our legal system do you. Going to court is where 2 sides present their case. Then a judgement is made after both sides have presented their version of events.

You can still be arrested before going to court.

#7188 4 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

Unfortunately, it's not stealing. If you gave Kevin the money willingly ie wrote a check or sent PayPal. It becomes civil because he did not deliver as agreed/contracted. I know it feels the same, but it's not.

Using Predator is stealing.

Pre-selling Predator without a license is fraud through deception...which is stealing.

It is civil when you bring a lawsuit against him for your money back. You still have the right to press charges.

#7200 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

there is a reason that very few creative people run businesses... because they can't get out of their "creative world" and deal with the other 95% of the "stuff" you gotta do (like, oh, "production", for example)...

Walt Disney was never the CEO of his own company.

#7201 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Kevin does owe me $4750, so someone does 'technically' owe me something.

Exactly. You and others should band together and go after him with a class action lawsuit.

Unless your credit card company will make you whole, I honestly do not see how anyone will be getting a refund. Pathological liars only care about themselves.

#7284 4 years ago

Reading the last few posts, brings up a very interesting scenario. I'm not a lawyer, but I know enough of the law that this could pose a problem for some people.

Anyone who purchased Predator from Kevin, easily has a legal claim against him. Now what about the people who purchased one's Predator order? I would think that anyone who sold their Predator spot, really isn't in the clear. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe they carry a liability as well.

I keep repeating myself that the people who ordered Predator need to file a class action lawsuit against Kevin. You need counsel. Why would Kevin issue refunds? With no threat of punishment, he can hold onto the money and nothing will happen to him. You need to go after him. Charges need to be filed.

If I read correctly, I thought one person said they had mailed Kevin a check. I would ask a lawyer, but I believe that is considered mail fraud.

What Kevin did is 100% ILLEGAL. Get counsel, press charges, go after him. Do not let him off the hook. Before anyone says that he is an S-Corp or LLC, it doesn't matter. Officers/owners of the company are still liable for illegal activities.

I feel terrible for everyone who is out money in this whole fiasco. People work hard for their money.

#7378 4 years ago

IMO, all the Predator purchasers need to band together and go after hime with a class action lawsuit.

#7380 4 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

That would be a civil case and he can claim bankruptcy and keep all the money if my understanding is correct.
Fraud charges need to be filed and victim could get restitution after all his belongings are sold off. It would be a federal case since he took money from not only most people from most states, but international fraud, too since there were overseas buyers.
Why he just doesn't refund the money left over is beyond me.

Criminal is when the government files the charges.

The FBI should be involved in this.

I agree he should just refund the money. My feeling, is there must not be much left.

#7465 4 years ago
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#7466 4 years ago

I'm not invested in the game.

But WOW!!!!!!!!!! That interview totally pissed me off. There's so much crap in there, I don't even know where to begin.

IMO, it was nothing but a complete lie. I hope everyone duped by him goes after him hard. Do not let him off the hook.

#7471 4 years ago
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#7476 4 years ago

If Kevin thought like this, it would've saved a lot of headaches:

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#7530 4 years ago
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#7590 4 years ago

Kevin needs to put this patch on his shirts.

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#7860 4 years ago

Hopefully Kevin's future home. Will give him a lot of time to think about what he did.

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#7995 4 years ago

Can anyone answer his question:

After the credit card company gives you a chargeback, do they then in turn go after Kevin?

#8076 4 years ago

Does anyone besides me think that the government officials (judge, fbi, detectives, sheriffs office, etc) think that this is the weirdest case ever brought before them?

I really hope what happens in court is either filmed or perfectly documented. I'm dying to hear what Kevin's lawyer comes up with...there is no rational defense for what he did.

#8179 4 years ago

It's situations like this that I wish more things from Back to the Future Part II came true.

Kevin would've been in jail already, due to the legal system moving swiftly since they abolished all lawyers.

#8224 4 years ago

Here is how I believe a class action works:

Once one is filed, Kevin needs to hand over every customer information, in order for the law firm to send out the paperwork to everyone with a yes/no if they want in.

#8244 4 years ago

I believe it was said earlier that the FBI has been notified about this.

Has anyone been interviewed by them yet?

1 week later
#8397 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I sure hope he goes to jail.

If there was a way to up vote this statement a millions times, I would.

4 weeks later
#9181 4 years ago

This is turning into the most bizarre thing I've ever heard or could possibly imagine.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Fox makes a movie about this with Chris Pratt playing the role of Kevin.

1 month later
#9390 3 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

For all of your consumption:
I received an email from Jon Emaus yesterday, and he advised me that he is no longer representing Kevin Kulek and SkitB Pinball.
I'm surmising (probably correctly), that those of you who were waiting to hear from him about a refund or some other redress for your deposits will not hear from him.

Maybe the lawyer realized what he was defending.

1 month later
#9527 3 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

That map is out of date. We can now go 80 on the interstate in SD and it is AWESOME!

I just found my next vacation spot.

3 months later
#10141 3 years ago

How is stealing not criminal?

3 months later
#10463 3 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

Mine is showing an Order of Dismissal a month after it was filed.
I emailed to see what's going on. Sounds like I'm hosed. Have to find another way I guess.

Huh?

I don't get it. Kevin clearly stole the money.

1 month later
#10591 3 years ago

Everyone who hasn't received their "refunds", should write a letter to the IRS.

Enough letters and they will definitely look into it. They'll see all the money he deposited and want to know why it wasn't declared.

#10595 3 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Get him for tax evasion also? Now there is a collection agency that won't let him off so easily.

Bingo!

#10598 3 years ago

In regards to the IRS, any money he hasn't refunded is income. When it comes to bankruptcy law, that doesn't get rid of his tax liabilities.

11
#10650 3 years ago

I'm not even involved with the Predator scandal and I'm writing to the IRS.

$4,750 x $250 = $1,187,500 35% tax rate = $415,625...plus all the penalties and interest. Remember, personal legal fees are NOT tax deductible.

IRS doesn't care if you get income legally or illegally...they just want the tax money.

#10652 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

Didn't someone say their house is solely in his wife's name? I assume the insurance policy is too. I'm sure all their credit cards and cars will be in her name too.

They probably file joint tax returns...putting her on the hook for past taxes, penalties and interest.

#10654 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

This is assuming there was something on Skit-B's books that says she was paid something, right? Otherwise, what taxes are owed? I doubt that is the case. I don't think it's illegal for a private business to keep crappy bookkeeping and I'm guessing Kevin can just say he spent it all on business related stuff and took no pay?

Skit B is probably an S Corp. That income flows through to the owner, which would be Kevin. Now, if he were a C Corp, the officers are held liable for tax evasion. Either way, he loses.

Actually it is illegal for a company to keep crappy records. When dealing with the IRS, you are guilty till proven innocent.

#10656 3 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Last I heard, he thought he was a non-profit entity. I don't believe anyone could did up any business fillings.

And if he didn't create a separate company, that means it all falls onto his schedule C.

He is screwed. I'm in the middle of filling out the IRS form and I wasn't even duped by him. I suggest everyone fill out the form and send it in ASAP. A couple hundred of these forms and the IRS will take this situation very seriously.

#10657 3 years ago

I suggest everyone who was duped by him, to put your contact info down so the IRS can contact you regarding this.

#10659 3 years ago
Quoted from vidgameseller:

this would be a foolish move. NO ONE should contact the IRS if they are not involved yet. If the IRS is involved and determines that they are owed monies, then they would get first claim at it if / when monies became available.
I fought against the local courthouse in regards to something somewhat similar. My ex-wife owes me 10k+ in child support, she ends up getting arrested on some charges, gets fines, and the state gets their fines paid and I still dont see a penny, even though the courts had a warrant out prior for non-payment.
Got to love that the court has been paid more for fines than i have received in total child support, which was ordered 13 years ago. Court has been paid over 2k in fines. I have received 225.00 total in 13 years (sadly, i think most here have about as much luck getting there money returned as i do getting back child support)

Bankruptcy doesn't dissolve tax liabilities.

#10662 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

There was no corporate shell per my understanding. He designated a name but didn't incorporate (that is my memory anyway). Perhaps it was a joint venture with his wife, mom and the other guy that left the project?

He collected the money in 2012...that return can no longer be amended. In order to declare expenses in 2012, he has to match revenue to it. Otherwise, all expenses in 2012 must be capitalized.

All I can say, is that a forensic accountant will have a field day with this.

#10671 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

What he did was fail. That's really it. If the anonymous folks had not drawn significant attention to him it seemed like he was going to continue busting his ass to deliver 250 games, no? Yeah, he exaggerated his stance on the license. Maybe he really thought what he was doing was so small he didn't need more or maybe he thought it would never come to this. Maybe he was just very naive. But from what I have read he sure seemed dedicated to delivering 250 machines until the world came crashing down. He must feel humiliated. He must feel unbelievable stress 24/7. He must be depressed that the hobby he loved and once hailed him as a hero now vilifies him. He has declared bankruptcy. He lives in a 35k home (apparently) with his wife and kid (or kids?) He did not get into this for the sake of scamming folks IMO. He has no hidden fortune. He just messed up. I'm not sure why he is getting so much more vitriol than Mr JPop.

He defrauded people out of money...what is so hard to understand?

#10675 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

Exactly what I said. It apparently wasn't his intention. Period. He loves or loved pinball. He wanted to succeed. He messed up big time. Yep, I'd be pissed if I lost money but all of the people continuing to vilify him, post personal information, encourage folks to go after his wife and small business, it's all wrong. He has been humiliated. He isn't living the high life by any means. When does it end? What if someone does something over the top (such as harming him or his family)? Then what? Do you feel good then?

He didn't fail. If he managed to make every machine, then every owner would be in possession of stolen IP merchandise. Fox would have every right to have them confiscated and destroyed.

Remember, Kevin is on video saying he has the license, the art work is approved, etc.

#10681 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

You are making stuff up now. This is simply just not true. Fox could not have them confiscated, that is ridiculous.

There was no license. If the games got built and delivered, that means there would be 250 machines with a STOLEN IP. Did congress pass a new law allowing people to keep stolen property?

If that's the case, Stern should stop getting licenses for IP and they could charge us less.

#10683 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

Good luck. A person purchasing unlicensed or counterfeit goods is not liable in the United Sates. They could have had the goods impounded if they were taken directly from Skit-B but not after they left. No way. Show me a precedent please.

A precedent? It's the LAW.

Ever play a VHS tape and in the beginning it says it's an unlawful to copy it? Or how about Napster. The government went after people with stolen music.

#10688 3 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

Yes, the person copying the tape is breaking the law. The person buying the tape on the corner is not. That's how it works.

So you're now allowed to own stolen property in this country?

17
#10714 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

The way I see it predator was somewhat of a pyramid scheme. Meaning when the guys from Texas went to the fox movie house to snoop around about the license, that's when it all fell apart. Then everybody wanted their money back and essentially it bankrupt kevin right then and there. He no longer had any working capital, as his PayPal account was frozen and what money was available was refunded. he was backed into a corner with no way to proceed.
If those guys from Texas never went to Fox Studios, I'm pretty sure that predators would be in production. Be it right or wrong, I seriously doubt that the licensing issue would have been a problem. I've talked to Kevin and he really does believe in his own mind that he had the license, and He would've made those 250 machines without really having a license. But would've people been mad? Probably not. They have their game. Would have Fox Studios found out? Probably not. And as said above it's not like the movie studio was going to come get it out of your basement and sledgehammer it on your driveway.
To me the guys that share responsibility for downing the project are the yahoos in Texas that brought this to Fox Studios attention. It is clear that Kevin could make the game. I saw Tim Fife's pedator, played it too, that game was complete and it was very nice and finished. And it was freshly made with what little parts Kevin had. (Ramps were the big problem by the way. Kevin never had the ramps made. He had a Proto type wood fixture and two sets of ramps were made... One for Tim's game, and one that was in the black predator that went all the shows.)
It is my opinion Kevin had plans to make these games in full. Was he doing everything right? Clearly not. But when those Texas yahoos closed the net on him via Fox, that's when the whole thing went crashing down. and all his accounts/monies were frozen or refunded. It was like a tidal wave because everybody was asking for their money back. Kevin had spent a fair amount of the money In going to shows and moving his game back-and-forth between the shows. in the end there was nothing left and Kevin could not operate. He could barely buy lunch at McDonald's at that point.
The lack of a license was clearly a problem. But in the big picture if nobody said anything to Fox Studios, the Pyramid scheme would still be operating. Predators would be being made. Experts of dangerous would be the thing that financed predator.
Speaking of which I saw the one and only experts of dangerous. It was a cool design and had great artwork on both the playfield and the cabinet. There was no software so I couldn't play it but man it looked like a good design. Kevin may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but he does have some game design capabilities.

What???

At no point did Kevin ever have a signed license agreement with Fox to do Predator. A signed license agreement is a contract, printed out, signed by Fox and signed by Kevin.

Based on your statements, I have one simple question for you: Why does Stern and JJP get the licenses for their products?

The group that uncovered the scam are not too blame. Kevin is to blame. The one who said he had the license. The one who said Fox approved the artwork. The one who said he was a nonprofit. The one who was contacted by Fox to stop, yet, he still kept taking people's money.

#10717 3 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Those assholes did hold onto the information for a long time, which then prevented a LOT of people from being able to do a chargeback through paypal. They are just a tick lower on the piece of shit level than Kevin.

And what illegal activity did they do?

#10749 3 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

That wouldn't make sense, honestly. If you do a chargeback on, let's say, $4000, there is a flat fee that the credit card company charges you - the last time I had it happen to my business, it was I believe $26. That's it.
Even if it was $40, then we'd only be missing two and a half pinball machines worth of money, not the vast majority of machines like we are. It is definitely interesting that none of this money is accounted for anywhere, and seemingly everything that was purchased for it has disappeared. Otherwise, where are the cabinets and stuff like that? Even if five games exist and some are in people's possession as rumored, we'd be missing a relatively small amount in that case - I'm guessing like $50k-ish. Which would have been recouped by the people that he sold those games too. Seems like there is WAY more than that missing...

As I said earlier, a forensic accountant would have a field day with this.

I still say the IRS should get a hold of him. He'll never be able to pay the back taxes...and that never goes away.

#10820 3 years ago

He needs a visit from this guy.

IRS-WWE_(resized).jpeg

#10823 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

Then why did he go with Kevin to the ramp manufacture?

It's possible he went with him to make an introduction.

Other companies I do business with, we are always helping each other out. It's in our best interest that we are all successful.

#10830 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

If he doesn't get the discharge the judgement will haunt him a long time as he will have no escape. Garnished wages. Seized income tax returns. Seized insurance Receipts in some circumstances. Etc.

I'm dying to see his returns.

I'm 100% certain that he never claimed all that income. I have no concrete proof, but where did all the money go? Since he didn't refund it, it's income and it's taxable.

#10834 3 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I don't think it's considered income, until he wasn't put into the business. Like if he finished buying parts, labor, and everything else he needed. The money over the top of all that, would be considered actual income.

Doesn't matter if he put it into his business or not. He collected the money. Let's face it, he probably used the money on himself which is not a business expense.

Everyone involved should fill out the IRS form and send it in. The IRS is a lot more effective than the court system. Tax liabilities don't go away with bankruptcy. Send in copies of your payments in. Fill out the form with all the details of the transaction.

Remember, people cheat on their taxes cause the chances of getting caught are pretty slim. Write down the web address of him on youtubevsaying he's a nonprofit. You can't go around just saying you're a nonprofit.

#10840 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm now wondering if the IRS is the reason he has no money left. Maybe he did file, cut a big check to IRS, the business itself is/was unsustainable, and now he goes bankrupt.

Does he look like the kind of guy to follow tax laws? If he honestly thought he had the license, I can only imagine what he thought his income was.

IRS Form 3939-A.........I have zero skin in the game, yet, I filled out the form. Kevin is scum who deserves to prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

#10901 3 years ago

Why would the national media care about this?

Local I can see, but not national.

2 weeks later
#10993 2 years ago
Quoted from Magic_Mike:

Yada, yada, yada, we know all of that...
You and others still have failed to prove intent. I was merely asking a simple question.
However, the silence speaks volumes that nobody has any real evidence to convict this man.

Prove intent?

No need to prove intent. The facts are very simple to understand...Kevin was selling a product he wasn't legally entitled to sell.

If my intent is pure, does that mean I can do any illegal activity I want?

#11067 2 years ago

I think people are forgetting that the underlying principal to our economy is trust.

We have laws in place. It's illegal to defraud someone. It's illegal to write bad checks. It's illegal to sell unlicensed products.

There is a certain level of trust through out this economy. If it wasn't there, this economy would be so bogged down with people doing background checks on one another, that no one would have time to actually participate in the economy.

#11070 2 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

The pitchforks shouldn't really be pointed at Paul. He has repeatedly and consistently said he believed Kevin and that it was the biggest mistake he's made. He was lied to just as the rest of us. Sure, he got paid to do the cabinets he did so didn't lose as much money, but lots of people got refunds from their credit cards where I didn't get a penny back. Do we blame them, too?
After all the reading and fact findings, and as someone who is out over $5K now with attorney fees, Paul isn't even a blip on my radar of blame. Kevin is ground zero.

If people think about it, where do you usually see unlicensed products? Walking out of a sports game or concert. Outside of that, what kind of marginally sane person would try to design an unlicensed pinball machine?

#11103 2 years ago

This idea that people should've verified the license is ridiculous. Just think of everything you've ever purchased in your life. Have you ever checked on the license?

Things I own that I have never checked on the license: Movies on Blu Ray, TV shows on Blu-Ray, Netflix, Video Games, Pinball Machines, NHL Jerseys, NFL Apparel, I've been to Restaurants, Disney, Universal, etc. Never once have I ever checked out the license. How many of you have purchased a Madden video game, then proceed to call the NFL and the NFLPA to make sure this was a licensed product?

#11108 2 years ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

I understood the whistle blowers simply got in touch with the Fox IP dept. It didn't seem they had much trouble determining he didn't have the license, so verification really doesn't look that difficult.
Recently someone pulled a similar technique to determine if Stern already had a particular pinball license with an inquiry about obtaining a license and being told another pinball company already had the license.

The whistleblowers said it was difficult to get ahold of Fox IP.

#11116 2 years ago

He collected money, didn't refund the money...where is the money? Sounds like he owes 35% of that money to the IRS. The best collection agency on the planet where a bankruptcy doesn't get rid of the debt. They get enough complaint forms about Kevin and something will be done.

#11128 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Have you seen his tax returns for the past few years? How do you know he did not file and pay his taxes?

Pre-order money is not income. When the machines are delivered, then it becomes income. He hasn't refunded the money. No refund = income.

I highly doubt Kevin understands this basic accounting-tax principal.

2 months later
#11852 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I'm still not exposing the source. I will say it was originally supplied by Kevin himself. Like I said, it's entirely possible it's not true. He has a history of lying.
The data is a PDF file of the VirtuaPin invoice for 270 sets of powdercoated stuff, and a list of check dates and amounts.

Not exactly sure Kevin is a source you want to use.

Don't forget, anyone can create invoices and bogus information on those invoices. All the factual information will be found on the bank statements. Pretty much auditing 101.

#11862 2 years ago

Anyone familiar with ZZZZ Best? That is exactly why no one should believe anything Kevin says or produces, that isn't an official document, i.e. - bank statements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Minkow

#11865 2 years ago

Does he owe money to other people besides the people he scammed with predator?

#11869 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Almost assuredly. With few exceptions (e.g. student loans), outstanding debts don't survive the bankruptcy process, so everyone he owes money to including credit card debt, car loans, outstanding mortgages, the IRS, etc. is in line for their share of whatever assets are in the bankruptcy estate.

Bankruptcy has no bearing with the IRS.

#11872 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

While generally correct, I note a bankruptcy judge is a powerful guy and he has the power to hurl a lightening bolt through even the IRS...they do not exercise this power frequently but they do it from time to time (heck, they did it with GM...).

What are the chances that Kevin honestly reported his income to the IRS?

Once this is over, everyone should file a complaint to the IRS against Kevin.

#11877 2 years ago

How many names are on the list?

1 month later
#11983 2 years ago

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Kevin probably has next to no documentation on anything.

I kind of look at this as the judge saying to Kevin to prove his case, which everyone here already knows that Kevin doesn't have a case.

#11984 2 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:

Oh sweet, it's time for Keith to snap on that robber glove and search deeper into Kevin's activities.
QSS

mqdefault (resized).jpg

#11989 2 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Hard to say that given everything is computerized these days. If he had a bank account the bank can hand over statements. Paypal too. Even if Kevin has nothing on-hand, he can go to the bank and paypal and produce back-records.

Not necessarily. Nothing is stopping Kevin from withdrawing cash from the business. It'll come down to him not producing any legit receipts.

I would love to see what his tax returns look like. He probably lied on them too in order to evade taxes.

#11990 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

It's just a matter of if he has any money left to recover.....

Even if Kevin has no money to recover, this will hang over his head forever.

1 week later
#11997 2 years ago
Quoted from Pintucky:

First off, I too would like to be there to see Kevin's compilation of receipts. I envision a small box with lots of dog-eared, tattered and torn and crumpled papers, all thrown in a swirling pile producing an unsorted mess. He probably had to look for them in the floorboard of his car with muddy footprints on them, chewing gum wadded up in them, along with McDonald's receipts and hamburger wrappers.
Not sure if I'm following you on this. "Not producing legit receipts" is what is throwing me. My wife manages a bank and there is always a tracking slip when I withdraw cash. What is on that slip includes the obvious name of the account holder and the account number, but also the time and date stamp, the teller ID number, the internal transaction number, and routing number of the bank. Kevin would not normally have a copy of these. All he gets is a little cash register looking receipt when he withdraws cash. BUT . . . the bank will have copies of each and every one of these internal transactions they have put in the ledger.
If I totally missed your point, then don't laugh at me . . . and I know what I wrote is elementary and most everyone on here already knows these things. Hey . . . it's late. I'm tired. Eyes are watering, I'm old, etc.
I really only wrote this to see if I have an "Authenticated" check mark by my avatar after it posts to the thread!
Mike in Kentucky

Legit receipt would be an invoice/receipt that is not self generated.

For argument sake, let's say Kevin claims to have purchased $10k in tools from Home Depot. A receipt from Home Depot would be legit. If he just wrote down on a piece of paper that he bought $10k, that wouldn't be legit.

11
#12002 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

No show! Hopefully a court order (and threat of sanctions) will compel him to turn up next time ...

Is anyone truly surprised by this?

I hope him not cooperating only burries him further.

1 week later
17
#12016 2 years ago

I don't feel bad for Kevin at all. He stole money from people.

His refusal to cooperate will only make it worse for him...and I say good. He has only has one person to blame...himself.

#12020 2 years ago
Quoted from c508:

I don't either. The "almost" was a recognition of how completely screwed he is...
if you read the full filing, the list for requested documents is so expansive that my reactions went from:
"ha ha, good luck with that Kevin" to
"boy, he really is in deep $*@&" to
"wow, he's totally screwed" to
"he's never, ever, ever going to get out from under this" to
a horrified "oh my god... he deserves whatever is coming, but at a certain point he's already so defeated that it's just 'piling on' (like the embarrassment of watching a sports team run up the score against another team that is so outclassed that they have no chance)."
However, I'm firmly on Team Creditor, not Team Kevin!

I'm not a lawyer...but my guess for the list being so expansive was because Kevin hasn't produced anything.

Secondly, I can't imagine any lawyer wanting to defend Kevin going forward. Who wants a client that won't cooperate?

3 weeks later
#12071 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

What are the odds that he shows up this Friday?
I'll guess below 50%

Cans someone take a video of it?

#12103 2 years ago

Maybe Kevin thinks he found a loophole in the court paperwork and doesn't need to show or produce anything.

#12146 2 years ago

IMG_2158 (resized).JPG

#12196 2 years ago

I want to see him taken away Christmas morning just as everyone is sitting down around the tree to open presents.

Be a very fitting Christmas gift to Kevin and everyone who he stole from.

#12247 2 years ago

I'm still hoping Santa stops by his house early Sunday morning.

santa_watching (resized).jpg

12
#12350 2 years ago

Kevin is the POS that broke the law.

How anyone can point at the whistleblowers is beyond me.

#12353 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

When I first joined Pinside, I got caught up reading the Predator thread and came close to buying in. I didn't only because I have never pre-ordered something and decided I wasn't going to start now on a high ticket item. Plus the gameplay video ultimately didn't thrill me in the end.
Had I pre-ordered, I would certainly be pissed at the whistleblowers who ultimately lost my money and any chance of getting the Predator pinball. Who knows what would've happened had no one tipped off Fox? But there would've been a better chance for people to have something to show for their money had they not.

Look at Kevin.

Do you honestly think he has the capability to build 250 machines?

I own a very successful business...I don't have the capability to build 250 machines.

#12458 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Maybe you're right, but things like this frequently play out a little differently in New Jersey.

I agree 100%.

I say this as someone who lives in NJ and is Italian.

#12466 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

For what it's worth I don't think he reads this thread or cares about this thread or the discussion here. He feels like he's the victim somehow and that he's justified keeping our money.
I've yet to see someone claim they speak to him other than Tim after Tim bought the Predator...

The part that pisses me off the most with those recent Facebook posts, is that he's rubbing it in everyone's faces he stole from with all the gifts for his kids, which is obviously used from the money he stole.

I'm very outraged by it and he didn't even steal from me.

3 weeks later
#13078 2 years ago

maxresdefault (resized).jpg

#13124 2 years ago

I hope he tries to slip into Canada and they catch him at the border.

#13145 2 years ago

The-Fugitive-1993-1-300x170 (resized).jpg

#13293 2 years ago

Is Keith allowed to inform us how Friday pans out?

#13317 2 years ago

Put a fork in him...he is done.

Friday can't get here quick enough.

#13337 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

I'm the lawyer on the phone.

Will Friday be recorded as well?

#13393 2 years ago

Is Keith allowed to record it on his phone then put it online for everyone to hear?

#13403 2 years ago

Is the pirate showing up to court on Friday?

#13434 2 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Ahh, I wonder how Kevin's doing right about now. Hopefully sweating bullets, in panic mode, frantically trying to piece together some type of shoddy half-assed defense full of excuses and lacking documentation to support his frivolous claims, all of which will just make him look like more of an idiot tomorrow - if he even has the guts to even show up on his own free will.

If he doesn't show, the US Marshals will come get him?

#13436 2 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

They already found him, picked him up, and delivered him to court once. If they have to do it again, he won't be going home or getting bail.

I hope he doesn't show up and ends up in jail.

#13488 2 years ago
Quoted from osudrummer:

*Waiting for Layman's terms*

I agree.

Can someone put into english exactly what happened today?

#13499 2 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

2) However he has likely avoided seeing the inside of a jail cell for bankruptcy fraud.

What about fraud for the money he collected?

#13509 2 years ago

Did Kevin bring any of the requested documents or was it just him saying he no longer wants bankruptcy?

#13595 2 years ago

1,600 pages of information...Kevin said the bank charged him $3 per page...that's $4,800...Where did that come from?

#13641 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

That's the highest rate I've ever heard. I hope he kept the receipt so it can be verified.

It's a shame the judge didn't pick up on it and ask the next logical question..."you were in here last week claiming to only have $3,700...yet, you just paid $4,800 for copies...jail cells numbered 12, 79 and 122 are available...which would you prefer?"

2 weeks later
#14152 2 years ago

Who are these other people being named?

#14157 2 years ago

Either the bank statements are showing this or Kevin decided to sing like a canary.

#14198 2 years ago

Can someone translate all of those filings?

#14200 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

WHAT??....they're not in English??

If I understood correctly, Kevin's bankruptcy got discharged the other day. What process is taking place now? Are criminal charges being brought up now?

#14271 2 years ago
Quoted from Ballypin:

Good defense lawyer... what is a W-3 ??!

And he worked as an accountant starting in the late 60's.

#14285 2 years ago

IRS needs to perform an audit.

I don't think they'll be as understanding as the judge in the "dog ate my homework" excuse.

1 month later
#14935 2 years ago

I say the IRS should look into her business.

What are the chances her paperwork is in order?

1 week later
#15020 2 years ago

Do the Kuleks only show up to court when the US Marshalls bring them in?

2 weeks later
#15190 2 years ago

This is pathetic...

#15194 2 years ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

It's truly is. They think that they're so smart by telling all these lies, but the lies are easily uncovered that they look so pathetically stupid. Which they are.
The really sad and pathetic part is that every one of us here have been paying them for years and continue to pay for them through the welfare system.

I hope this moves to a criminal (?) case in regards to tax fraud/evasion and welfare abuse.

10
#15258 2 years ago

"I didn't want to get caught...whaaaaaaaaaaa...leave me alone."

That's what I kind of got from this.

-1
#15321 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Thank goodness they don't peek inside your tank to see the dye indicating road tax wasn't paid on that fuel.

I've never heard of a pickup getting caught with off-road in it. I don't think the cops would even check.

Dump trucks and the like...they look.

#15352 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Visit Lakewood, NJ.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

#15366 2 years ago

The part of Lakewood that JJP is in is perfectly fine. Two gun ranges, Single A Phillies farm team, and just a bunch of businesses.

#15511 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I have to suspect in the end this is bankruptcy court, and he's there to help people out of their problems. I also suspect he doesn't hear cases like this very often.

I can only imagine the conversations with his wife at night.

She's probably like "they still make those?"

#15595 2 years ago

I really want to know what went through Kevin's mind when the whole thing fell a part. How does any half decent person keep the money?

If I had to guess, it's the first time he's ever had money at his disposal.

The Kevin Kuleks and Bernie Madoffs of the world are useless human beings and they can all go burn in hell for all I care.

#15601 2 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

This is exactly it, in my opinion.
In most cases you cannot simply hand people a bunch of money and expect them to manage it. Unless the person built up a large portfolio honestly and through their hard work over time, they're like the kids in the candy store (or the basement).
It's why lottery winners often go broke, they didn't earn the money over time and cultivate the skills along the way needed to manage it. So they blow it.
I don't think this is any different.

People call me heartless when I say that poor people suck at managing money. It's just the cold hard truth.

-10
#15641 2 years ago
Quoted from Underspin:

--------------------
"Hillbilly Rich"
Adjective
1. (idiomatic, offensive, of a person) Living ostentatiously; spending money recklessly, especially a limited supply of money.
Synonyms:
spendthrift, squanderer, wastrel, imprudent
See also:
white trash rich, redneck rich, hood rich
--------------------
"Con artist"
Noun, informal
1. a person adept at lying, cajolery, or glib self-serving talk.
2. a person adept at swindling by means of confidence games; swindler.
Synonyms:
crook, hustler, swindler, fraud, shark, sharpie
See also:
con-man, scam artist

There's another term besides hillbilly rich...I can't use it on here otherwise I'd get a lifetime ban.

#15657 2 years ago

I hope Keith goes after that couch too.

Don't let any penny go uncovered.

-27
#15672 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Shows his inherent racism....

Not to get off topic, but this isn't the 1850's.

Racism is pretty much dead in America...and don't go giving the "there was this guy I knew" type story. We have leaders, celebrities, sports stars, business owners, etc. of all different colors and backgrounds. I don't think you can find another country that makes it work as well as we do.

#15680 2 years ago
Quoted from dkazz1:

I thought this thread was about Predator and Kuleks..........

After some 15,000+ posts, I think it's safe to say we ran out of things to talk about, until Kevin is either behind bars or some money is recovered (if Keith can get every cent back, God bless him, but it's obvious Kevin spent it all).

19
#15699 2 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

I am only offend by the fact that the post are still there.

I'm offended that we aren't focusing on the dirtbags who stole money from everyone.

#15710 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

At this point she might as well have said the money came from the mattress and her underwear drawer.

Underwear drawer....eeeeeewwwwww...I wouldn't want to handle that money.

#15752 2 years ago

Here Keith, you might have a good use for this:

728a1f2ee2dd22408075bc592f3b8bd9 (resized).jpg

2 weeks later
13
#15830 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

there is zero harm in someone reaching out to inquire about buying something from a clist advert.
My suggestion is Kim has zero part in the ongoing legal proceedings and in fact would like to see me hurt so badly that he would be fine with the Kuleks running off with everyones funds and selling off any assets under the table for cash on a clist ad.
He has ZERO clue as to what has gone into the fight to recover the assest for all people screwed by this sham and it is pathetic that he is even here commenting at all.
There is nothing illeagal or unethical about emailing to see about purchasing some camera equipment.
Sorry but anyone in central MI selling camera equipment on Clist and requesting pinball machine in trade is worth a minor amount of further investiagtion just for the outside chance they are affiliated with this entire mess.
If it is not affiliated then, oh darn a bunk clist buyer disappears.
Even his insinuation that sending an email to inquire about purchase is 'harrasment' is preposterous.

Why don't you do it instead of asking other people?

12
#15832 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

a few reasons
I am at work where I can not easily make a spoof email account.
I dont have a MI phone number and IF this were infact associated with SkitB camera equipment sales, then a phone call would be the natural progression from initial email if Kulek was actually smart enough to screen a buyer.

When you're home tonight, create a spoof email and send them a message.

Problem solved.

2 weeks later
16
#16105 2 years ago

Amanda said that her kids were taken out of school by child services or something along those lines.

I thought Kevin homeschools them.

#16131 2 years ago

Let's review. Kevin says he has zero skills.

His mom says, he can make a pinball machine better than anyone else.

#16489 1 year ago

Karma is a bitch.

2 weeks later
#16814 1 year ago

Final wizard mode should be titled: Jail Mode

#16872 1 year ago

When is the $30k supposed to be paid back?

3 weeks later
23
#16992 1 year ago

"I need to leave Michigan before Halloween...I don't like Halloween, so I'm going to California."

Which begs the most obvious question...does California not celebrate Halloween?

#16996 1 year ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

I'm curious as to where mama Kulek got the "waving a gun around" Keith story from? She brings it up every time as though he was waving it at her.

I think from Kevin saying he was fearful going to Keith's office. After all, she is a mom and her children can do no wrong.

#16997 1 year ago

I was laughing my ass off when she said she wants to ask Keith questions in a deposition. Then the judge had to correct her more than once.

There is you shit-b legal department.

1 week later
#17093 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

It's amusing to me that Kathy keeps calling Pinside an "adult website" with intentional nefarious insinuation, when it was the PRIMARY (possibly only) website her son used to sell his game. And certainly was the only website he was using to sell it after he had to white wash his own website of any reference of Predator.

Can't we file a lawsuit against the Skit B Legal department for defamation?

1 month later
#17501 1 year ago

Are civil cases in NJ on audio too?

I had to go on the stand as a witness a couple weeks ago...I would love to hear the closing arguments to that case.

#17545 1 year ago

Can they still go after her criminally?

1 month later
#17648 1 year ago
Quoted from dgoett:

I have a question and forgive me if it's been asked or answered in this giant cluster of a tread.
Is there a way to show a loss on taxes for the $4750 I had in Predator? I have all the paypal receipts.
Or can I not do that with open litigation [even though I'll never see a penny back].
I'm aware you can only show $3K a year but just curious.

Talk to your accountant.

1 month later
#17801 1 year ago

Did she ever pay the $30k?

2 weeks later
#17897 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Spoilers from above audio:
-Kevin owes Amanda $27 a month in child support. I don't know whether to laugh at that or cry. He certainly has an MO on everyone he deals with in his life, beyond Predator.

$27 dollars......OMG....

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