(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

5 years ago

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  • 18,301 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 29 days ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#4635 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm wondering about JPop's situation also with Fast.

Talking but no commitment at this point, as far as I know. (Only based on my general knowledge.) I *do* know that John does have a capable and working/tested boardset (mb, i/o, driver board).

#4914 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I don't know either but would it be possible for Fox to have got a sales list and seized the offending pins if they were built? Fox wouldn't pay for them, Kevin would have been on the hook so it's really best these were never built.
I think even though these pins are home use mainly, Fox wouldn't want to set a precedent that as long as you get them made under the radar you are safe to buy unlicensed pins. Note I am not sure what would occur, but even though the buyer is not at fault, I believe they could be ordered to return the pins to Fox for disposal. Note: I'm unclear about this but it's almost reminds me of when you buy a counterfiet SB ticket that's the buyers problem, not the NFLs.

From strictly an IP perspective, you are infringing once you advertise and offer something for sale that is copyrighted, without the (c) owner's permission. The court can order impounding of all infringing goods (e.g. shipped/unshipped Predator games, parts with Predator artwork/logo, etc.). US Code, Title 17, Section 503. It's OK to do a personal retheme for your own use (and not-so-OK if you sell even one of these that has copyrighted/trademarked elements, technically). I cannot fathom what Kevin was thinking...

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I'd be pissed off at Mr X if I wanted this game, because now it probably won't happen.

This is a moronic statement. (not the first from this source, btw.) Why? because, what *if* Predator was made "under the radar" and shipped? Pretty sure someone at Fox would find out eventually. And infringement is infringement. A year or 2 from now, they could sue Kevin/Skit-B, get all sales records thru discovery, and impound all the Predator games. (That means taking them away from all the owners, without *any* compensation.) And once the games were built, there would be ZERO money left, and the customers would definitely be out 100%.

#4930 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Someone fill me in so I don't have to read this whole thing. Is the Predator pin going out the window like JPoop? I hope not for you guy's sake.

Quite the opposite. Predator is dead, it seems. JPOP's projects are alive and moving toward completion. There are a TON of differences between the two. Starting, of course, with zero licensing issues from JPOP, and lots more. Sometimes things don't move so quickly when you are producing quality AND doing it on a frugal budget.

#5028 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Nah it's pretty similar. It's come to light that Jpop hasn't paid vendors and had burned a ton of bridges - he has never shown a working proto (at least Shit-Mask had that)...and he's never shown he has the capability to manufacture. As far as I'm concerned, they're both misfit dreamers who took money with no logical endgame.

I gave this a thumbs-down. Not because I disagree with that there should be more info put out, but because I disagree with the characterization and conclusions. As someone else noted, John may be slow and stubborn, but he knows the realities and details of the biz (having worked hands-on with B/W and Zizzle, etc.), and he is not lying or deceiving customers.

As for the "working proto," I've seen both games in person recently. John probably could have put together a basic flipping whitewood a couple of years ago, if he put in the basic hardware and software first with some general pin components. But anyone can do that, and John knows that (and has done it before). His approach (as a designer, I guess) is to design a full game first, and then "bring it to life" with known hardware and programming pieces. Which is why MG already looks like a production game and RAZA looks like one with just a few pieces to be finalized and bolted down. Kinda like sewing a frankenstein body together first, and the last step being zapping it with a lightning bolt.

Yep, more info would be great and appropriate. Hopefully we'll see some soon. I do know John has 1 or 2 real options for manufacturing in place. There are a bunch of these types of companies around Chicago still. Saw pics of the space for one of them. But it may be a confidentiality issue (or still considering other options) preventing more details being made public yet--I didn't ask.

Still, not the same. At all. (And remember, zero licensing issues with MG or RAZA.)

Quoted from Honch:

You've got brass, man! You're an active player in the other pre-order meltdown and you have the nerve to come on this thread and pile on.

If you call it brass to post in this thread, try to correct some misperceptions/misinformation raised in this thread, then ok, I have it. But I'm not "piling on" here. I think the Predator mess sucks and sympathize with all who pre-ordered. There was a lot of blatant deceit going on, and I do find it very surprising there was NEVER any license. So I get how others who pre-ordered feel the same way. And I also see how the JPOP issue is different, as noted above.

4 weeks later
#8017 4 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Now both sides have council this thread is getting quiet. Can the boobs come back?

It's 'counsel.' Goddamned Learning By Phonics!!!!

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