Quoted from Pubaw:
I closed to stupid podcast window at 3 minutes...right at the point he said he is not going to share everything he knows.
How can you go on and on lecturing everyone when you didn't even listen to more than 3 min. It shouldn't surprise me but it does.
It was just a preface / qualification of what he was about to say. That you were free to take his actual opinions (which you skipped) as more informed than just making shit up out of his ass.
Quoted from Fintan_Stack:
Sometimes the people on the 'outside' are the best people to listen to. They have no ties, no bias opinions etc
Disagree.. Everyone is prebuilt with biases. Some like to speculate, some like to watch things burn, rarely is anyone impartial about anything. Unless the so called outside people have inside information (facts), they are speculating just like everyone else.. No more valid than the cheerleaders..if anything the cheerleaders are actually more likely to have inside information than the outsiders since some might actually be in contact with people at the company. This all played out in the TBL thread as well and thankfully is resolved now but the craziest of the speculation always came from the outsiders.
Some of these women are just athletic vs skinny.. This is a pinball forum so maybe we're not too familiar with that breed of individual
Think a welcome to the internet pin would be better received than experts of dangerous.
- license confidence boost? -I posted too late thanks. Lite on specifics I assume ?
- The supposed nefarious activities?
Since Kevin is "out of his basement" level of professionalism.. How in the world is he going to be able to transfer the build to a contract manufacturer? You need a pile of paperwork with assembly instructions/training materials, BOMs down to the last screw, .. All of which has to be in stock before the first game is built.. I.e. look at MMR and i feel like you'd multiply the hiccups by 2 or 3 ? Plus, feels also like the price will have to be raised (between proper licensing + CM overhead).
He will have to step up his game significantly (the hard part isnt over yet)
I dont see why the paperwork matters.. He's proven extremy naive and/or a fibber when the truth is uncomfortable. Agree with aurich, he didn't/shouldn't only just now known there was a license problem when he had to take down the website, which was awhile ago. Let's presume best case, they actually did just ask him to take the website off.. That should of been a giant red flag to him saying "oh, I guess I don't know what my terms really were if I crossed the line here with a website.. Maybe I should get more stuff in writing" - the fact that he decided to just remain ignorant (this is *best* case speculation).. Speaks enough.
Quoted from Ed209:
This thread is a sad read. I went through similar fear with BoP 2.0 when all the DP drama erupted. Thankfully it tuned out fine in the end but man it was shitty thinking the project may be imploding. Sending positive vibes to all those still in on Predator. Hopefully you guys get your game or your money.
It shows that things can look bad and till turn out. This being said.. Not sure its apples to apples situation.
Quoted from RobT:
It's obvious: Dutch Pinball to the rescue!
Ugh I hope not honestly, they just dug out of drama.. However it would somewhat make sense:
- they are already doing CM, so they could use their relationship there to subcontract that out after TBL machines.
- they are already talking to Roger and getting smarter about licenses; required here.
- predator is using proc right? So is DP so they will have experience (the only experience?) Using them in a production run.
If the people (DP or whoever) that was in negotiations with were also in the dark about license problems (Kevin trying to compartmentalize his problems) I imagine if they've seen the email they are rethinking anyways. And if that falls through, maybe that'll force his hand to make the right call and refund everyone what he can.
Quoted from RobT:
Uh. You do realize I was being sarcastic, right?
I know you were, I still panic attacked about it cause the pool of possible people that could be considered (even if unproven) a pinball manufacturer is small . I selfishly want DP to be one of the ones still standing..
From the DP sideshow, we learned that a bunch of refund/fraud requests are submitted, the PayPal gets locked down until the owner can convince PayPal to open it back up. May have already happened here as well (or could happen) . PayPal is pretty serious about these kinds of things. DP took especially long to resolve given the conflict between business partners (at least you don't have that here as well)
Since DevilsTuner isn't even in on this (from what I can tell), he's not likely to get too far as he's not an actual victim (and kind of an ass for doing it)
However, a cop showing up to the Door asking a couple questions / leaving may be a jolt for kevin to wake the f up. Especially If his wife is home and sees this. She may have the most influence of all
He's not a victim in the dark turn, just to be clear. Self inflicted. If he plays the victim card in the final decision (like what was tried a few weeks ago with nefarious people accusations in an email).. Well, that will be his opinion man
Also, what makes Kevin's deal "special" .. Maybe he was just peacocking about PayPal for some reason when its normal PayPal practices. Using PayPal as a honor system "escrow" account is pretty much the same as DP was doing (who knows now).. Their account got frozen during Phil meltdown and had to get unlocked before refunds could be issued.. If that hasn't happened yet with Kevin I'd be surprised (he may not of been treating it as honor system escrow)
Yeah I rephrased my post above after I came to the conclusion as well (shit is happening too fast). You are right.. DP was using it as a "honor system escrow" where they just were choosing to leave it there / nobody was forcing it to stay there. If he was claiming PayPal wasn't allowing him to spend it, that's likely false.
Quoted from cosmokramer:
lets put it to a vote
This image got 3 "unsafe" tags and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hidevote1.gif 3
This image got 3 "unsafe" tags and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hidevote2.gif 3
Intrigued.. But given the variations involved, this seems more bracket type competition.. March madness indeed
There's probably no response as whatever strategy he had in his head when he sent the email out evaporated immediately when it was not received well and got tons / majority of people sending in refund requests. Hopefully he's working on the new strategy where everyone gets refunded % on the dollar (he may honestly not know how to do that fairly yet). Presuming PayPal hasnt locked the account down which would be some other wrinkle he has to deal with.. But he should be up front about that
Quoted from Erik:
After reading the wordpress site, at least now I have a pretty good idea of who Mr. X is. Disappointing he sat on this info at the request of Fox's attorney (to whom he was not beholden) while there was still a chance for some buyers to exercise paypal disputes.
I know.. Now we know why JPOP hasn't made any progress on machines, he's too busy sleuthing. .
Sorry guys.. This sucks.. I know what was going through my head during the first hours of Phil's meltdown and this is that times 10.
I didn't do it, so I don't know where the button is on PayPal but during Phil meltdown people said they were able to submit fraud reports there. It might lock the account down (slow refunds) but maybe locked is better than open access for Kevin.
Quoted from TheZohan:
Been thinking this about a few games, anyone else feel like I do, that Pinside shouldn't have games that really don't exist yet in the Archive?
The games in archive are also tagged to threads and indexable by forum. For that purpose it is very helpful to have project games in the archive as it helps find threads.. Helpful even now finding the refund activity threads:
The guy is delusional.. "Sitting at the finish line"..wtf.. Even if you ignore ALL the Mr.X and everything else.. He was no where near the end with no way to manufacture 250 machines.
His response in PBN will be full of this kind of rationalization of things I'm sure.. And that he's the victim, etc.. He'd probably do better to refund everything and keep his mouth shut.
OT: I'm in Australia right now and Arnie is doing real estate website ads:
The only difference is fraud/scam in spirit/intent vs fraud/scam in fact/legal. Fine i can agree Kevin didn't fraud/scam people "in sprit" (instead is a naive, delusional boob) but the fact is he committed fraud due to his actions
You hear these stories about people getting harassed in real life (usually women) from internet terrorists doing things like SWATing. Why couldn't that energy be used for good
You might want to clearly mark your post as sarcasm.. otherwise you're going to be creamated
Quoted from captainadam_21:
Listen up ambulance chaser. Let's not be dragging us in the estate planning industry into the mud with yourselves. The Rule against Perpetuities is simple; you create the trust in South Dakota where the rule doesn't exist.
I have been working closely with the Kuleks and the house (pool in the basement and all) is in a dynasty trust. It will be enjoyed by Kevin's descendants much longer than 21 year after the last of his of children passes away.
Sorry, don't read legalize.. 'commitment lender' is what.. like a second mortgage or heloc on the home or something?
karma seems to be extracting Justice faster than the court system. Wondering when people who lost money will consider the pound of flesh paid?
Quoted from toyotaboy:
Can't wait to hear the next court audio, should be filled with even more woe-is-me.
Um, I know it's not popular but I think having your* house and possessions destroyed in a flood is a legit woe-is-me moment.
They might be criminals. But even so, the blood thirst in this thread getting a bit much for me :/.
*Last week's discharge of house from proceedings makes it theirs I guess.
Quoted from Nibbles:
How about $500,000+? And that's being conservative
Honest question: why is 500k the conservstive number right now? I don't think I've seen an accounting anywhere that is generally accepted.. with some paid in full, some only deposit, some got out before it went South, few got out after.. nobody really knows right? Or did I miss the post where we had a clear accounting.. it is at least possible that between house(flooded), trailer(flooded), laptops(lost?), A few arcade games, the money spent on vendors(this seems the bulk) that there is nothing or little left.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside