To those who paid via paypal, can you not simply chargeback the money?
Quoted from splitskull:
I think there is a limit of 60days on that. Or 90days. Not sure. Past that you cannot.
Its been extended to 180 days now. So for those who paid the full amount recently (like me) have the opportunity to chargeback the money. Not that I plan on doing so, but its nice to have the option.
I can't even get a reply from them now. Now I get the feeling they think I'm a mug who doesn't need to be told anything. That doesn't sit well with me at all. So much so, I may have to paypal claim my entire payment should this continue.
So skit-B have openly stated they can't promote Predator? Sorry, I must have missed that one. All I see is the word from someone that knows them. Please correct me if I'm wrong but i'll only take the word from the people that have the license and so far, I haven't seen them say a thing about it other than they have the right to use the license in the manner they see fit.
Now, on to the 'Bi-weekly' update please.
Starting to feel like any communication at this point would be another stall tactic. We need to see REAL progress now or it will all start to crumble when people demand their money back en mass.
Just thought I would mention that I have been in contact with Kevin recently via email. All appears good to me, but I urge buyers to make contact with him for yourselves if in any doubt due to the speculation in this thread. (Kevin@SkitBpinball.com)
Email? Guess I better get checking but from the sounds of things,..do I dare read it??!!?!
Ah but if I post it will that ruin my chances (if any) of getting further communication from Kevin? (you know it would)
Let me ask this;
Does anyone here right now feel the need to do a 'passenger 57' with $5k at a casino of their choice?
Also, does anyone else have a vinegar smell in the crack of their asses?
Enquiring minds NEED to know.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:
spfxted said:Take it for what it's worth...he told me there were 10 machines being made with 3 done or almost done...
This is going to make a good documentary film...
He told me in a mail over two weeks ago that they were "currently assembling up through 18". Did he mention that number in the recent phonecall you had with him?
Got the email too. Still not had any direct communication with answers to my queries however.
Well, I'm requesting a full refund immediately.
Lets see if Kevin will stick to his word of taking care of refunds.
No timeline was given for the refund but he did say this in the email:
"To those of you who have requested a refund and have yet to hear back, please message me right away so we can get everything taken care of."
Quoted from mufcmufc:
I know you have the email Russ. He said people who have requested already should get in touch, whether he hopes no one else requests the refund or whether new requests will be refunded is unclear, hope you get it.
If someone requests a refund, it should be refunded regardless of any 'hopes' a manufacturer has that the opposite will occur. What about my 'hopes'?
I 'hoped' I'd get a machine a year ago. I 'hoped' not to be ignored. I now 'hope' for my money back so that my wife doesn't take my balls as I sleep.
The only thing that matters to me is if he sticks to his word. REFUND THOSE THAT ASKED TODAY KEVIN!!!!!
Quoted from DevilsTuner:
I dont think so either. But I just wanted people to understand what the context of the hard law actually was not speculate about it. I still hope it gets made too. I mean its Predator for gods sake. Only thing better would be aliens vs Predator.
But to ask for a refund and not get it is crap.
2 requests and still no refund here.
I will be sending multiple requests daily from now on. Fat load of good that will do....
All I know is if I get one more of those 'looks' from my wife when describing this nightmare, I may have to cut my own balls off and eat them on liveleak for the ad revenue.
Quoted from metallik:
Really... you got banned for posting a WHOIS link?
Please, mods... understand what is public information. Kevin COULD have hidden that info easily using his registrar's anonymizing service, but he did not. ANYONE can look it up by visiting a registrar whois page and inputting skitbpinball.com (and solving a CAPTCHA)
This is not an attempt to criticize whomever banned him, rather an attempt to educate. Banning over completely public information is... odd.
Thanks for pointing that out. I now have an address to send my refund requests to.
FYI: Just got this mail from Kevin:
As you all could imagine, over the last few days I have received quite a few emails and inquiries that must all be individually addressed and simply cannot be handled in the course of a few short hours. I am here, I am listening, and I am returning correspondence as quickly as I can. I would simply like to let you all know that you are not being ignored, and if you have sent me a message within the last few days, the messages are being answered in the order in which they were received and you will be receiving a personal response very shortly.
Y'know whats really sad here is that this whole thing has totally killed my desire to play pinball. I can't even bring myself to play my machines as all I can think about is this mess when I do.
No. its certainly NOT ok. Not even close.
Thanks for the kind words however. It is appreciated.
A predator buyers group needs to be formed for those that have money on the line. People speculating and adding vicious posts will screw us buyers over rather than help.
Quoted from frolic:
If there's a shred of anything to the story of Kevin having "a" license (but not the right one), he needs to post whatever documents he has and explain how it was an honest mistake, if there's a hope in hell of saving this and his reputation.
There's 700+ posts since this post, which really added to the pile of people requesting the same thing.
Needs repeating for those that didn't get it the first time round.
If anyone here thinks that Martin will do some sort of 'expose' on this whole thing, you will be waiting a very long time. He may know something, sure. That doesn't mean he will print potentially libellous material for vultures to target him for.
Is there a 'they' in regards to the anonymous email 'people'? Could just be one disgruntled soul with an axe to grind? Although I have to concede 'they' were mostly right about the situation.
Quoted from YKpinballer:
Lets be real here, Kevin has been caught lying repeatedly and the proof is all over pinside. That anonymous email is very credible. If you want to try to explain it away as a lone nut case, you've got some pretty big blinders on.
I never said anything about someone's mental state, just that this whole thing could have been started by a single individual that became suspicious/angry/jealous/envious/vengeful for whatever reason. And yes, I agree there has been lies, hence my multiple requests for a refund. All still sadly ignored.
Quoted from RobT:
I'm fairly sure that if there was no truth at all to the rumors of Martin getting ready to publish an article on the Skit-B stuff that he would have quashed them by now.
Perhaps. In a recent reply from him after I asked for info on the issue I was told he was not in a position to advise me on the matter. A very political answer If you ask me.
Quoted from Dante:
Unfortunately if what I have read is true and there are threats of criminal charges, federal lawsuits, etc. - I would be very surprised to hear any formal statement from Kevin other than the business has failed and is bankrupt. For if he started to try and estimate how much money is left, able to be dispersed, etc - he would more than likely add to his quickly rising legal issues.
At this point, I would assume the money is lost and chalk it up to another hard lesson of pre-orders.
^^ another helpful remark from a non buyer?
I'll consider all things lost only when people start asking the best way to send pressurized containers of dog sh*t through the mail.
Its clear someone got the hump in order to contact Fox. Perhaps the same person/s fell foul of a licensing issue that cost them money in the past and felt it their righteous act to seek out if proper permissions were acquired.
I am sure glad they did because their actions exposed inconsistency and lies.
That means Martin had knowledge of this at a time when many including myself could have charged back the paypal payment. F*ckin journalists eh? Always in it for the glory of the story.
Y'know I even asked that guy for help? Sure does feel like a kick in the face right now.
Ok mind implosion over. Its time we organised ourselves or we will most certainly be ignored indefinitely.
Heighway has washed his hands of this (can't blame him) so any bullsh*t email from Kevin better have the words 'Here is your refund' in them.
Its already been said that Heighway has walked away from negotiations. All that's left is for him to refund or dig an even bigger hole for himself.
Ok, now I will listen to suggestions on the best way to send pressurized containers of dog shit through international mail?...... Anyone?
Quoted from spfxted:
Yes, I will.
...it just took me a while to read through things here, and part of the Pinball News article. Incredible and sad.
...as to what Kevin told me to "keep under wraps" for a while, while he was negotiating, was that Roger Sharpe was working on the license and JJP would probably be making the machine.
So, whats his phone number, Ted? I'm sure public posting of it will be fine.
Quoted from nephasth:
File a claim right now. Even though it's over 180 days, you can still file a claim. Whether they do anything about it is a different story... But it's going to be hard for them to ignore $1,000,000 fraud.
Tried filing a claim and paypal closed it almost immediately. It was after the 180 day time period. They did send Kevin an email however.
Quoted from the_one:
Interesting model within a community, first save your own ass and than let explow. Great stuff
Oh I let Martin know of my disgust at his decision to keep quiet. Y'know I even asked that guy directly for information and he gave me the brush off. As far as I'm concerned he's no friend of the pinball community.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:
Really, how is this different? Company wants to make a product. Numbers arn't working on paper. Budgeting coordinator crunches some numbers to make it work. They make a prototype. Show it to investors. Investors invest. Production starts. Money gets used. Half way through they are out of money and can no longer make the product. How is this different. In this case instead of lying about manufacturing costs, he's lying about licensing issues. Which would have put him way over budget i'm sure. It's pretty much the same damn thing in a nutshell.
Anyone have that article someone posted recently on that camera instagram company that showed you how to lose 500k in a kickstarter company?
Its different because lies were told in order to obtain funds. Aka Fraud.
Quoted from frolic:
Martin was a true journalist. He worked through his due diligence until he was satisfied enough to put the article online. He also tried to save the project with the connections he had, knowing anything else would kill it.
So he couldn't have given a quiet 'heads up' to some people? I'm sure those closer to him knew all about it.
He should have had the foresight to realise that it would ultimately cost people hard earned money should he say nothing after finding out there was no license in the first place.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:
Did you even read my example? it's the same damn thing. In my example. the project coordinator fudges the numbers to make production work. (basically lying about the cost of production to investors) . I've seen it before. I've seen companies fail because of this exact same thing. They think they can figure it out or find another way down the road, and it ends up killing them in the end.
Yeah I read your example. You are mistaken. A company that started out legit, gets into trouble then 'fudges' the numbers to carry on working is not the same as a company starting with an out an out lie to gain investment.
Quoted from PinB:
Since Kevin has ignored my repeated refund requests, I contacted PayPal this morning by phone & informed them of this whole situation that has come to light over the weekend. Even though I was past the 180 days, they made an exception & were able to file complaint cases for my payments, but I still need to wait while they investigate. They said that in cases like this, they tend to make exceptions, so we will see what happens. They sounded like they weren't going to take this lightly.
For any of you that paid via PayPal & want a refund (but are past the 180 days): Log-in to your PayPal account, then click on the "Contact" link, then click on the "Call Us" link. The next page will give you a unique code that you will need to enter when you call PayPal. After you call & enter the unique code, just keep hitting "0" to get through to a representative & explain the situation to them. It's likely that there is already a "red flag" alert on Skit-B's PayPal account, so you will have their attention.
I just rang Paypal here in the UK. They gave me the brush off.
Quoted from Aurich:
The immortals part is just about the fun little Pinside titles you have by your name. Addict, guru, immortal, legend, whatever. They were just trying to say they contacted people with high karma counts, who've been around a while or who are pretty active in the community.
I think it's easy to point fingers now, but they were caught in the middle of a situation that was pretty volatile, with a lawyer requesting that they stay quiet about it while negotiations occurred. I honestly don't know what I would do in that situation.
The reality is that even if they'd come forward right away it was too late to do PayPal refunds, the window had passed. And by staying quiet there was a chance the project could be saved. Tough spot, I can't judge their thinking.
That statement should reveal exactly who the anonymous emailer was. It sure did to me but I think he did the right thing anyway.
You have to wonder how the REAL manufacturers feel about all this. If I were them of course I would never comment but you have to wonder what they think. After all, that's a boatload of money that could have been in their pockets, right?
The fearful situation now is that a third party could take control of the funds and even if Kevin wanted to save a little face and do the right thing, he could be without a course of action to take.
OH man I advise to NOt press that noooooo.com link button. It feels like your soul is being sucked dry......
Quoted from pmWolf:
Oof....all money refunded in a "few days"?
That seems crazy-optimistic.
I already told my wife that there was a good shot that I wouldn't see any of the money I put in. She took it much better than I expected.
Mine is goose stepping around the house, barking orders and spitting feathers. Ying and yang I guess.
If I get my refund I will gladly donate a little to Kevin to get a forehead tattoo that said 'Refunds are hard'......
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:
And get embroiled in this mess? I've already seen the flak Martin has been taking after people decided to 'shoot the messenger'. JJP or Stern probably took one look at it, laughed as they realised how much sh*t Kevin was in and moved on.
When the messenger is purposely late and people are wronged because of it, expect nukes, not bullets.
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:
All you guys asking why they didn't step forward earlier. That's a bullshit argument....look what happened to Phil when he did that with TBL. You guys f'ing crucified him AND you could even get your money back. And yes, I totally believe that they were trying the same 'fly one under the radar trick' as well, but were able to actually get it back on track when called out, or so it seems. I'd say you should thank both Phil and these guys, for getting the truth out there. I totally believe that TBL would be in the same mess right now if it wasn't for Phil.
I can understand that being the case in a public discussion but not if denied vital information from a credible source in a private email discussion when asked directly.
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:
Have you considered the possibility that due to another manufacturer getting involved, he would be subject to an NDA? Therefore, unable to tell anybody what he had discovered without legal ramifications until said manufacturer had passed on the project?
No mention of an NDA other than a verbal agreement between people who had vital info. Unless you know something different of course?
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:
That's the thing with NDAs, it's kind of like a super-injunction (or fight club rules). He won't be able to say if he was subject to an NDA or not. If you know him, you know Martin is a nice guy and I'm pretty sure he would have let people know what was going on if he could have.
I don't accept that there was ever a legally binding NDA agreement about the predator story. Just words between men. I'll get over it.
Quoted from cooldan:
this thread needs more of this
This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hidegif kate upton 5.gif 1
This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hidegif jessica alba underwater2.gif 1
Mate, if I get my money back i'll get my own tits out and offer free motorboats to all.
Quoted from toyboy6:
On top of all of this, how does Kevin sort out who gets what, AND HOW, when he must have dozens of credit card disputes in his inbox too. I don't know how all of it works, but could he potentially have to worry about "double refunding" if he issues refunds shortly to everyone and then any of the credit card disputes try to debit too. I'm sure there is some way to flag this through paypal or the CC companies, but what a mess (of his own making).
I sent him some VERY clear instructions with ALL the details on how to accurately refund me. Stilll nothing. He needs to get his finger out his bum hole and get on it as a priority over breathing.
Well you didn't ask the guy directly before the story came out. I did and was told NOTHING!!! I was even still within the 180 day time period for paypal chargeback.
So, I repeat. F*ck pinball news, now and forever.
I'd really like to file charges against Kevin for theft. Anyone know how I would initiate that from the UK?
I don't want any more poison words. I just want my money back. Like right effing now.
Sounds like he's just burying his head, waiting for it all to blow over. Well, its not going to blow over. Not now, not ever.
Quoted from rommy:
It WILL blow over unless good pinheads stand up and demand their rights - by filing suit against Kevin Kulek , KKK . He is counting on victims not pursuing legal action. Don't lay down for this . Stand up and sue Kevin Kulek.
If you can suggest a way to do that for international folk. I'm all ears. I certainly don't intend to let this lie.
I have had some good advice from others on here (thankyou) but any other input would be gratefully appreciated.
Midland County Sheriff's Office
Attn: Detective Brett Benzing
2727 Rodd Street, Midland, mi 48642
If anyone who is out of pocket on this nightmare wants to contact me for the Detectives email. PM me and I will send it promptly.
Also got the Detectives email. He basically says he has asked the FBI for assistance as the number of victims is so large, and that people send him the info which Rommy described earlier. He also asked for patience as he deals with the whole thing.
Quoted from herbertbsharp:
It's obvious by that outfit he blew all the money on drugs
Y'know it wouldn't surprise me he may have actually thought he was Michael Jackson.
Now I can't stop thinking about that episode of the Simpsons where Bart is fooled into thinking that a huge, Caucasian mental patient was his hero.
Also, never use paypal linked to your bank account or you will be up sh*t creek without a paddle. Just like me.
Link Paypal to cards only.
I'm all for doing it but could be a problem if I have to present my case in person?
I'm pretty sure that Kevin knew he was lying about refunds happening in "just a few days".
I'm wondering if we can just ask the detective for Kevin's Attorney details? Would he give this info out? If so we might be able to get some sort of communication through him instead. I'll send the detective an email asking anyway.
Got an email off the detective. He says they have spoken to Kevin and his attorney but have not yet made a decision on criminal liability due to the amount of evidence that needs looking at beforehand. Also stated was that the case has been turned over to the FBI for additional investigation. No attorney details however but I will ask again.
Anyone have any info for us international buyers on how to start a claim against Kevin whilst in another country?
I personally will jump through any hoops and go through any amount of frustrating legal crap to get a result on this. I'm also sure there are many others that would do so too.
Quoted from TigerLaw:
Provide your info to the detective like everyone else. Americans are not allowed to scam and con foreigners any more than locals. He committed a crime here against you to (at least I think it is a crime, I hope the detective agrees as I know I feel robbed).
I have already made a complaint to the detective handling the case. I need to know how to make a claim at court for the money he owes me. Anyone know how to do that outside the US?
Kevin Kulek's Attorney details PLEEEEEEEEASSSSEE.!!!!!!
Post it here in public if you don't want a hundred more PM's asking for the address. Thanks.
Its clear this is all BS. Kevin repeatedly mentioned that he would refund our money on multiple occasions but no, it was another lie. Looks like the lies are going to continue for quite some time.
No refunds here. Still waiting for $4750.
Would be nice about now, but I'm not holding my breath.
No email here. But then, I expected to be ignored anyway. Its what the scamming type does.
How can you hold no animosity towards someone that lied to you? Repeatedly and on purpose?
Astounding to me.....
I tried to contact the lawyer in MI, but got no response from my email. I will of course be trying again.
Quoted from underlord:
I approached this the same as if I were in Vegas. I gambled, I lost. I hold no animosity to the casino. I grew up angry. Bitter. Hostile. Got into tons of fights just cuz. This loss isn't in my top 40 of aggravations. I still bust my hump for every dime, but my most cherished asset now is time. My son leaves for Norwich end of August, my daughter leaves next year. Right now these are my priorities. Not chasing a broke moron in Michigan who cares less than I do.
Thing is, Casinos don't lie to your face. They are legitimate entities in which you, a customer, felt your losses were somehow their fault?
This is different. A man (along with others) lied to buyers (you and me) in order to obtain the capital to move forward on a project he KNEW he could not legally complete due to no license being in place to use the intellectual property subject matter of 'Predator'. Knowing this, he then took further monies from people and continued to lie even when promising refunds which still to this day have not transpired.
Being apathetic in regards to this nightmare is part of the reason why the scamming types will always try to take money from others via deception. They know there will be folk like you totally unaffected and unbothered and partly count on that when its time to move on.
Mr Jon T emaus (Kevins lawyer) States thus:
"As way of a brief update and explanation of the current timelines, Skit-B Pinball and Mr. Kulek are currently addressing and resolving the local and Federal criminal investigations as well as the State of Michigan Attorney General inquiries that were initiated by some of the depositors connected with this project. These are moving along and resolving as expected. We anticipate that Skit-B pinball will be able to return to its business operations, including the addressing of refunds, within the next 30 to 60 days."
Sent to me on the 29/05/2015. 32 days ago. 28 days left then? Who wants to wait for another drawn out lie?
I wonder if Adam savage and Jamie Hyneman realise that their names may be brought into disrepute if they allow the use of their likeness by Skit-B?
I just signed up with Keith today also. I sure do hope he can get a positive result.
Don't take a defeatist attitude if you are out of pocket. That gives strength and hope to the scammers.
Even if bankruptcy is forced, he will try to come out of that one day. And on that day, I will have another claim to file. I don't care if that's 10 years from now. I'll still be here, pursuing my money till I'm paid back 100%.
There will always be some know it all playing devils advocate, thats just life. The same know it all folk usually haven't been scammed by a liar and a thief to the tune of nearly $5K.
Yep, im certainly on that list. Still going to chase my cash until the end of days. Can't let up on crooks for a second.
Also just got the bankruptcy notice through the regular post. Still going to continue. Now and until the end of time if need be.
I want to continue the chase until the bitter end. I'll never give this up until i get my satisfaction.
I have emailed you Keith regarding this but if you want to contact me through here that's ok too.
Kevin has proven to me personally that he's an intentional fraudulent liar. Now i'm going to prove my resolve in pursuing every single angle available.
Bankrupt? Fine, i'll take a percentage of his welfare check.
Homeless? Fine, ill have a slice of his cardboard pizza.
On fire? Sorry, i just took a whizz a minute ago but ill take some charcoal when you're done.
There is ALWAYS another way in litigation. As for costs? C'mon, you guys buy pinball machines ffs. Everyone who's out of pocket on this can afford to chase it down without even thinking about it.
Has anyone talked recently to anyone from Keith Nathansons office recently? I can't seem to get in contact with them lately.
If you're reading this Keith, PM or email me as soon as you can. Thanks.
Let him drag it out. The longer it takes, the more damage he's doing to his health. Like a cancerous tumor gnawing away. This is what dishonesty, lies and thievery will bring you.
Still going to chase him for what he owes me. However long it takes because i can still sleep at night.
I prefer to direct my vitriol (and ouija board demons) to the one that really deserves it. Some virtua cab builder dude across the pond i have no relationship with did not take money from me and promise to give it back over and over whilst having no intention to ever do so.
I'm also owed $4750. Hopefully ill get a letter in the post a few weeks from now.
EDIT: Its actually £3000 Sterling at the time of purchase. In my case at least.
I'm owed the full $4750 from Kevin. I'll lose a portion of that for payment to Keith as well as the new fees on top, but to me, its worth every damn penny.
On one hand, nothing. On the other, something.
Its been said before by myself, but you guys all buy expensive toys and can afford this without even trying. The apathy surrounding this is shocking to me but this is what liars and thieves hope and prey will happen as time passes. Never let up on them for one moment. Ever.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:
Even if Kevin has no money to recover, this will hang over his head forever.
I'll take a percentage of his welfare check. Around 99.99% will do until the debt is cleared. Plus costs of course.
Then i'd want a personal apology from Kevin with an explanation as to why he decided to steal from me.
This would all be on the day i fly my golden winged pig around the streets whilst breathing fire through my anus. ( i can dream can't i?)
Well, that's certainly a very nice Xmas present. At least i can sing 'bad boys' all day long and feel better about all this. It's not over yet, but hearing news like this goes a long way.
I was in a real sh*tty mood this morning. Totally amazed at how a bit of good news completely turns the day around.
Thank you Keith, for all your continuing hard work.
Nice to hear for the most part, but hearing that thief's voice makes my blood boil. I regularly laugh at myself for trusting this fool, as its almost insane that i let my pin passion over rule my common sense by thinking this joke of a man could do ANYTHING other than find a way of running off with everyone's money.
Many, many thanks again Keith, i will imagine you forever as the stake driving Van Helsing animation from BSD.
What i wanted to hear all this time. Now i know for sure this guy needs to spend time in a cell as well as paying everyone he owes for eternity.
Fair enough. They probably heard me chanting my gypsy curses from across the water and felt they needed more protection.
Wrote a review (a real one). Can't have Keith's good name soiled as long as i breathe.
The time for tears has well passed. I can take some pleasure from her whines, but ultimately, i'm still out $4750, so all of her BS means nothing to me.
Don't like your voice being on the internet? Why? Someone out there will one day make you into a famous song.
"hide your pins, hide your wife"
Quoted from flashinstinct:
I can't believe after years that this is not over. I'm afraid that in the long run Kevin and his family will spend every dime of that money for legal recourse or to simply make sure there is no trace of it. They are using the system to their advantage. I wonder how they sleep at night.
I hope it goes on for 10 more years. Time doesn't matter when you owe a debt that big because people like me will chase it to the bitter end. Yes Kevin, i'm not giving up on this.....EVER!
The form 410 proof of claim has some questions i'm not sure about. Perhaps someone could shed light on how to properly fill it out? I'll email Keith anyway:
2.Has this claim been acquired from someone else?
4.Does this claim amend one already filed?
5.Do you know if anyone else has filed a proof of claim for this claim?
6.Do you have any number you use to identify the debtor?
9.Is all or part of the claim secured?
11.Is this claim subject to aright of setoff?
12.Is all or part of the claim entitled to priority under11 U.S.C. § 507(a)?
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