The other threads were off topic. This one is designed to keep all the Predator stuff in one spot as we let the other ones die.
And, there's a hope that this one stays civil and productive.
Guys, we need to calm things down a bit.
Stop the lynch mob for now, we are trying to get things worked out.
I don't want anyone's safety jeopardized, so do not post personal info, or dig up stuff on their wives, or whatever. Nobody truly "deserves" that....and we will have to issue thread ejects if it continues.
The process will work out...
Quoted from cosmokramer:
This post was moderated for Personal attack 59 minutes ago. A thread eject was issued.
Please do not make personal attacks against Pinsiders who disagree with you
This post was moderated for Personal attack 38 minutes ago.
Please do not make personal attacks against another pinsider
why is one of these a thread eject and the other is a warning?
I'm guessing past history, mostly. I didn't run across Ted's post...but if I had, that probably would have been eject-worthy (to me, at least). I'm in an "eject-y mood" tonight, though.
Otherwise, I'm not stepping on another mods toes. They handled it how they saw fit, maybe they had additional info that I didn't.
In general, try to aim these questions toward the "Moderator Feedback" section, though. It's easier for us to discuss there.
Holy crap, people...you guys are acting like the refunds should all be issued TONIGHT.
How many people do you think have requested a refund from Kevin over the past few days? He's probably got, like, eighty billion emails.
That's not going to be immediate...and posting his personal info, stuff about his wife, where they go on vacation, what they ate last night, and then working on getting the cops to his door is NOT going to help out!
Things are in motion, and the process will not be immediate. I'm not giving any time-tables (because I'm just not that smart)...but I'd seriously appreciate it if people would take a few deep breaths and play some pinball for a bit.
Quoted from PinB:
ith all due respect, I've been asking Kevin for a refund repeatedly for 2 months now (since January), and I haven't received a refund, let alone any kind of personal communication in response. And it's been 2 months. Just stating the facts from my own personal experience.
Quoted from YKpinballer:
Hearing random people with god knows what connection to the project saying "don't worry, something's being done, it's being handled, great news is coming, blah blah blah" is about... oh... the past year or so of this project. It doesn't help.
Okay, I think what I'm trying to say isn't coming across effectively...my apologies.
I'm not saying that everything is rosy, don't worry, great news is coming, etc etc etc. If you want to worry, then go for it. If you want to be super-upset about how everything is going...I understand, and support you in your endeavors. There's a lot of frustration going around, and I'm not trying to ride in here on a white horse and tell you it's all going to be awesome. Obviously, it's a dumpster fire right now. Stop pouring gasoline on it, because it isn't helping.
Bottom line is that SOME of the posts are really crossing the line...and we can't have that. Personal info being posted, people are dragging wives and family members into the mess, and there are thinly veiled threats being lobbed around. We just can't allow it...because to be honest, it's getting downright *dangerous*.
So, yeah...I'm asking for some to relax, and I'm trying to be clear about what is allowed on site. It's a very difficult situation right now, and the mods are all doing the best they can.
We do appreciate your support...
Quoted from Asylum:
Seems like a bit of abuse of power to me...
Understood. I'll never claim I'm 100% right all the time. We're just doing what we can to keep things from continuing to escalate.
Quoted from Asylum:
No offense but there are a bunch of us that have money in on this and have been quietly staying out of the current conversations.
I'm right there with you. I'm in on the project too, and have a lot of money invested that I don't know if I'll ever see again. It's not a good situation, and I'm quite frustrated and unhappy.
Quoted from Asylum:
you should be more concerned about us fellow pinsiders who have been taken advantage of
Again, I'm in the same boat. If I came off as an unfeeling jerk that is just watching casually from the sidelines, I apologize...that's not my intent.
Quoted from Asylum:
You should be ejected from this thread just for making this careless comment... people have been requesting refunds for months.
Like I said, I'm not going to even try to pretend that I'm right all the time. You are certainly welcome to disagree, and give me suggestions for improvement. I'm not a god, or anything...and I do make mistakes, or word things in ways I shouldn't.
Sometimes it is tough posting in these volatile threads, because what is said is looked at under a microscope, and it seems like my true intentions get lost as someone picks apart a ill-thought comment instead of what was really intended.
However, those types of conversations need to be had in the moderator feedback section. The public forum is not the proper venue. (At that point, being wrong or right doesn't even matter...it's just going to lead to an eject).
Quoted from Asylum:
however with your position comes responsibility and that responsibility is to be objective to both sides of a situation/issue - your comments heavily favor Kevin.
Well, I'm certainly not a Skit-B cheerleader. I'm frustrated, and very upset with how this has all been handled. Blondetall pretty much nailed it dozens of pages ago. The lack of communication has been awful, and a lot of this mess could have been solved if he had just communicated better.
As far as being objective...I think my main point keeps getting lost. All I'm trying to say, over and over again, is that there are certain posts that are crossing the line. We've got to keep this a safe place.
Quoted from Asylum:
You fail to acknowledge the lack of detailed communication from Kevin to those of us who have invested substantial monies based on his promises/guarantees.
I'm sorry if it came across that way. As I've said, I've also invested substantial money...and I'm horrified by the lack of communication.
ONE LAST NOTE:
This is the only time I will be able to respond to this type of post on the public forum. From here on, please start a moderator feedback thread, or PM me, and I will do my best to calmly discuss any issues with you.
(Although, I am done for tonight. At some point, I'd like to play some pins and hang out with my family).
Thanks for understanding,
Quoted from RobT:
I can't believe an owner was ejected from this thread based on this post. He may have violated the forum rules for questioning a moderator, but considering what these guys are going through, I think more leeway is definitely in order here. I think a warning would be more than sufficient.
It was temporary.
As stated above in my last post...question us all you want, just please do it in the Moderator Feedback forum.
Oof....all money refunded in a "few days"?
That seems crazy-optimistic.
I already told my wife that there was a good shot that I wouldn't see any of the money I put in. She took it much better than I expected.
Quoted from Hazoff:
I spoke to my CC company today and they can't do anything after 6 months. Not sure if anyone got the same or different response but Kevin will have to move quickly or I will be looking into legal action and before someone steals from me, I will spend a shit load more to make sure they suffer, only way I could sleep at night.
I thought some CC's allowed up to a year? (Although, some of us paid over a year ago...so it may not matter).
Which CC company do you use?
Quoted from lowepg:
Thank GOD he didnt say "2 weeks"....
Man I hope its true.... I was thinking 75 or 80% back would be considered a a HUGE win for the investors, but 100% seems almost too good to be true?
My thoughts, too.
Quoted from Russo121:
Mine is goose stepping around the house, barking orders and spitting feathers. Ying and yang I guess.
Well, I've been collecting for a long time. I guess I'm allowed one complete eff-up...
(Although, there was that time that I got a racing game stuck in my staircase. We jammed it in so good...couldn't get it out (up or down). Had to break out a window, and eventually had to hook up a truck with a winch and strap to pull it out. She was....unhappy).
Quoted from mcluvin:
Everyone, we know there are some allegations floating around. We can't determine if they are factual or not. We've asked Kevin for his response and he will not reply to any of our inquiries.
That statement from Pinside wouldn't have caught everyone's attention?
I hope you realize what an IMPOSSIBLE situation we were all in.
If we run to the masses and present the second (and third) hand forwarded anonymous emails as fact, and it turns out to be bogus....we killed a project for no reason.
If we do nothing, and it is true...that's a bad position, too.
Also, if we ran out with the information early and presented it as fact...it WOULD have killed the project, right then and there. We would have been blamed at that point....like, "why didn't you guys fact-check this?" and "how can you trust a bunch of anonymous guys? You don't even know who they are!"
Even now, I really can't judge if they had an agenda, or axe to grind. None of them came to us, that's for sure.
Quoted from mcluvin:
Where's the neutrality in the decision that was made to not say anything? Which did it favor, Kevin or the community?
Again, you are basing all of these statements on the benefit of hindsight.
They were neutral decisions at the time.
I finally called my credit card company last night to see what I could do about getting my money back. Maybe that will give you an indication of what I thought of the anonymous emails.
Quoted from Pintucky:
Well . . . knocking on the door and asking him questions is not all that threatening to me. If I got scammed by someone who lived here close to me I wouldn't go there to knock the door down and beat the hell out of him, I would feel ENTITLED to go there and ask questions. I am not advocating getting 'carried away' as you said. I see no harm in being frank and firm with this guy though, in PERSON. I would be compelled to 'act' because I couldn't stand the suspense of either getting my money back, or not.
Remember, the squeakiest wheel gets the oil. Show up on his door step and he might just decide to get rid of you by giving you your refund right then and there . . . with the cash he has squirreled away under his mattress. Also, the 'visit' wouldn't be designed to embarrass him in front of his wife and kids, but . . . if I did something like this and people started knocking on my door wanting their money back, perhaps my wife would need to know what kind of shit I was doing wrong! And from all that I've read, his wife is already in on this too, so why would she be embarrassed?!
And no, I didn't have any money in on this, but I've read this entire thread each and every day and I have ached and grovelled over this along with all you guys who DID have money in on it, and with great empathy. Sad for all of you guys (and gals) and I wish you good luck. Just don't give up!
Holy smokes, be smart man. I don't even want anyone to come close to suggesting this right now.
Do NOT go to his house.
Do NOT suggest others go there. Period.
He knows everyone is super-peeved. He probably feels threatened already, and could be concerned about his safety, or that of his family. If someone shows up unannounced on his doorstep, that's just insanely stupid...no matter WHAT your intentions may be.
Be safe, be smart. YOU may not think it would be "threatening", but I'm not going to assume HE feels the same way.
In short, don't advocate for this kind of behavior. We can't let it happen....and it's not just to protect Kevin, it's to protect everyone.
Quoted from Whysnow:
Mission is to now find someone that is in from MI.
Has anyone talked to PMwolf? I was sure at one point he was in???
I went the CC chargeback route, and things look like they are working out.
I did send the detective info to a couple of my Michigan friends who paid via other means (Check)...so I don't know where they were at in the process.
Out of curiosity...does anyone here personally know PinRebel that can vouch for him as a real human being? (There's got to be folks in MA that know of this fellow...he seems quite involved in the hobby, even for a new account).
Edit: To clarify....I need someone other than PinChili that can vouch for this individual's identity.
Quoted from cfh:
If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim.
He wasn't booted for difference of opinion. He was booted because he's on his, like, EIGHTH attempt at a username.
...and a few others I'm probably missing. (Hey, I'm doing this from memory. Sorry!)
Many of the previous ones were flat-out trolls, and the "throw out" had nothing to do with a difference of opinion based on Predator. And, after we had to show him a door for the 8th time...he jumped right back and tried to create a couple more duplicate accounts.
I can't tell you how many hours I tried to work with the fellow so that he could stay on the site. When it came down to it, he lied over, and over, and over again...and told us that he wouldn't follow any of our requests. What exactly are we supposed to do??
Us: "Hey, in order to stay on the site, please do (insert request here)"
Him: "No way. I F***ing hate you guys. I'll never do anything you ask."
Us: "Well, we tried. I guess there's nothing we can do now!"
Yeah. That doesn't work...for anyone on the site. It's not because we're evil overlords, either.
In any case, it's a big no-no for me to talk about behind-the-scenes stuff like this, but the misinformation keeps whipping up all of this weird hostility. I'd be happy to continue the discussion in a mod-feedback or direct PM with anyone that is concerned...but would rather keep this Predator thread from turning into a "Let's grab a pitchfork and go after those filthy mods."
Quoted from stangbat:
Question for you lawyerly types, once a default judgement has been entered like this, is there any way out of it? Is there a way to appeal? Or is it a done deal no matter what and the RV, CNC, and printer are now the property of the trustee? I'm guessing when you don't bother to respond that you severely limit your options.
Under some circumstances it can be appealed...mostly on service or jurisdiction grounds.
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