(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

4 years ago

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  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 60 days ago by Cobra99
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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#199 4 years ago

Facebook says he works at a body shop now

1 week later
#279 4 years ago

Whew. Thought the sky was actually about to land on us this time.

#332 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

the peoples waiting for this game, i don't know how you do it.

Because a lot of us have been on board for more than 3 years and not just showed up in the past few months. A lot of us still have faith in the project and realize that people aren't perfect. A lot of us remember when this was just a one-off machine, and interest inspired the manufacturers to take an enormous gamble and try to become a pinball company when there was only one left. A lot of us remember when SkitB wasn't good with communication before they had ever gotten a dime from anybody. A lot of us genuinely want to see this company succeed, and can understand why they would choose not to bend to every whim of people who repeat the same shit over and over like they had a new thought every time. A lot of us can empathize with the fact that not everything is as easy as Monday-morning quarterbacks think they are. A lot of us are ready to just play some goddamn pinball.

1 month later
#574 4 years ago

Sooo, 23 hours before dresses?

#576 4 years ago

So I guess there goes that.

#592 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

I would like to see an update that shows more than a bunch of parts we already seen a year ago almost?? How about some production updates or maybe even when production is starting?

Or maybe the plastics, ya know, on top the game.

3 weeks later
#680 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

» YouTube video
I had to remind myself why I was staying in on this project. The game does look awesome and when I get er home its gonna be a happy day. 10K by xmas.

Good to see a video again. Also nice to see some people hit the left ramp with the right flipper, although it doesn't seem to happen much.

Only issue I see with the gameplay is the left to right loop emptying at the left flipper. Ah well, way too late to fix that angle now.

1 month later
#1526 4 years ago

This shit makes Cambodia look like Kansas

#1712 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

What do you want people to do? There are 250 people who were promised a game and Kevin doesn't write or call most of them back. And once again, there are more people piling up who aren't being given refunds let alone a reply to an email. Then some guy on here, who isn't even in on the game calls Kevin and gets to talk to him for 10 minutes, and has the entire situation explained to him?!

I feel like at least 50% of the folks here (this thread) are pathetic, but this is a pretty good point man.

Quoted from spfxted:

What difference does it make if I am "in on the game" or not. I'm trying to help. I found a card with Kevin's phone number on it and decided to call and ask a few questions. I can only report what I was told. I hope things get worked out.

But, this reply though, I'm assuming you're joking as I know you and Kevin go back at least 2 years with the personal communication. Being in on this for more than three years, I kind of feel like a piece of shit with the fact that you're privy to this info and we're not. I don't feel like Kevin started off with idea of using Pinside as a platform, but this is where I first saw the one-off, and the interest here prompted him and his former partner to launch the 250. A lot of you say he's pandering to Pinside, but it was fucking pinside that started this run to begin with.

Regardless, to one day say you're only going to give updates to people on a list and then not take anyone off of that list that canceled is just...sloppy man. I remember a certain individual years ago saying that he never thought this was going to work and shouting from a mountain how we were fools, then putting a preorder down and then shouting the greatness from the same mountain about the greatness that was to come, and then a year later canceling and shouting from that same fucking mountain almost louder than anybody about how we were all fools again, is just pinside in its most purest form. Now, this is the guy giving info to everyone else!

But, to be honest, I can't really argue anymore. I understand how money works, especially in this game, and especially with a startup company. --Hi bank, I need a loan to become a pinball manufacturer.-- You need the capital up front to make the product. Then, once you have the capital to make the product, you need to deliver. You have to expect that if things don't go according to plan, people are going to pull their money out, especially in this fickle community. This isn't Kickstarter. We were all wondering how this would work without a bigger down payment of $250, but we believed. OK, half down now, so they must be making the game, right? Apparently not. But in two weeks they're going to have an announcement that's gonna knock my socks off? I'm tired a this shit man.

This was not only my first NIB, but my first pin ever. Turned down a lot of good deals because I have room for 1 so I've been sitting still all the while. So, not only did the two biggest backers besides myself drop out in spfxted and Navajas, who fell off the face of the Predator map (which I guess is noble considering the dropouts who stay around to talk shit), but what am I to think?

I don't have disposable income like the lot of you, which I'm sure you'll argue. The only reason I haven't asked for a refund in the past three months is because I don't want to fuck it up for everybody else like the Great fucking Depression, but at this point, if this isn't groundbreaking in two weeks, I'm done.


#1742 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

What? I saw and spoke to Kevin at 2 pinshows. He called me once about my order and i called him once last week. That's 4 times in 3 years.....

If that's the case, I apologize. I thought I remembered you talking to him on the phone on more than one occasion. The fact that you're not buddy buddy with him, like I thought, makes me feel less positive about this thing in two weeks though.

1 week later
#2110 4 years ago
Quoted from jellikit:

I am sorry, what was the topic again?
predator.png (Click image to enlarge)

Man, if I could turn the clock back two years.

#2525 4 years ago

"In our attempts to gather showable documents to prove this wrong, we learned that our licensing deal really wasn't what we thought it was. Thankfully, with the understanding folks who control said IP and the help of a lifelong family friend, these hurdles are quickly being overcome."

So the license is still not finalized. All this stuff about getting another manufacturer is irrelevant to me. We, on the waitlist, have had to take more than one leap-of-faith on this project. I'd say more around 5. Now I need to wait around again for who knows how long to see if this gets pushed through? And what if Arnold won't sign off? Sure, he's trying to create his image as a movie star again, but what if he doesn't sign off? No Dutch graphics or callouts? Or what if they can't get the rights to the music? That's half the pin! I think all of us got on this project for the theme, not for the company, so a re-theme, or anything from the movie that's missing, to me is not even close to feasible.

I hate to join the dark side of the forum, but this doesn't sit well at all.

#3675 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Man what a nightmare... I feel so frustrated by this, all I keep thinking about is all the hours I had to put in to pay for Kevin's livelihood.

I'm with you man. Should have went with Stern. This has kind of ruined pinball for me. And my favorite movie has been sullied forever.

#3682 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Were'nt those Kevin's exact words? He stated he had a close relationship and agreement with someone at PayPal and everyone's money was safe?

"I didn't have the agreement with paypal that I thought I did..."

#3701 4 years ago

What happens if he files for bankruptcy?

#3789 4 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

I hate this, post the fucking secret email then.
Secret email, 1st grade or 2nd.
No money (Kevin), Fox, lots of money.

For real. All this bullshit on here about people not posting emails, and nobody's posted these "secret" emails yet.

#3819 4 years ago
Quoted from SkitBPinball:

I wish I could say more, but I simply can't say anything other than the fact that we have legal right to use the Predator license for our purposes. I hate this legal crap just as much as anybody...

More than 2 years ago in the original thread. If all he had was a piece of paper explaining fair use policy, and never once thought it wouldn't apply to commercial purposes. Seriously?

I'm so f***in pissed right now.

#3820 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

The very first thing that would happen in a bankruptcy filing is the bankruptcy judge would issue an Automatic Stay order that would halt all collection activities and litigation dead in their tracks. That includes collection calls from vendors or government bodies, litigation (including Fox's threatened, imminent, or actual lawsuit), and all requests for refunds. If the case is filed under Chapter 7, the judge would then appoint a trustee to oversee the case and take control of all of the assets (including cash, machinery & equipment, accounts receivable, raw materials, work in process, finished good inventory). The trustee would then be responsible for maximizing the recovery for ALL creditors (i.e., preorder customers, vendors, credit card companies, IRS, State of Michigan, Dept of Labor) based upon the priority ranking of their respective classes.

I'm guessing the vendors have been paid. Noticed Back-Alley Matt hasn't been around lately. That's also why I figure there isn't enough left for half of us, let alone all of us.

#3834 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

That seems hard to believe.... But now.... It seems just as likely as anything else we've heard (or not heard)...
Did Kevin ever say "we have a license to make this machine" or was it all super-vague-kevin-speak like "to those asking about licensing, all I can say is you will see what you'd expect on the play field" kind of thing?

If my memory serves me right (which I'm pretty sure it does), it was only ever asked once more in that thread, and the direct response was just as vague. He talked about EVERYTHING but the license. And we all ate it up because we were pumped, but I think the general common sense was that the license is the most important part of making a licensed pinball game and who in their right mind would prepare for 3 years of work without a license? In fact, I think the majority here believed that they had a license that lapsed, right up until they admitted they didn't, because HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO MAKE A LICENSED PINBALL GAME WITHOUT A LICENSE? Shit man.

#3839 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

That's obviously an oversimplification, isn't it?
There was plenty of evidence to go along with what was in those emails from "some anonymous dude on the internet". Like the complete scrubbing of Predator from the Skit-B website and social media, removal of all Predator YouTube videos, Kevin's repeated failure to mention the word "Predator" in emails, and his disappearance from Pinside to name a few.

To be fair, I think Kevin's disappearance was due to the art. Predator threads were the zen-peaceful experience until the art was unveiled. Kevin wanted to go "comic book cartoony" (did he really or did he just want to get away with only paying a guy to draw things once (( which was just a blatant ripoff of some Instagram art)), and the majority of pinsiders were looking for something darker, as was I. Over the next few months, every single guy in the thread had an opinion on the art direction, most contrasting his "dream." That's pretty much when he stopped coming around.

#3844 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Ooh, what Instagram art?
I'll tell you what, I'm half tempted to just post the stupid anonymous emails at this point. It seems beyond the point where holding them back is the responsible move.

Ok, I don't know if it's instagram, was just saying. Someone a while ago found a picture that had an identical Arnold, and somebody actually posted that picture a few pages back. I'll see if I can find it.

I defense of the guy who drew the art, he had some awesomly dark pieces on his facebook. We were all wondering why the art wasn't more in that direction.

#3848 4 years ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

I always assumed the art was a ripoff of this DVD cover.

Yes, that is the picture I was looking for. Granted, that those drawing are just stills from the movie. I'm going to have to defend the artist on this one though. If he had copied that picture, he wouldn't have fucked up the hand/gun angle so bad that it had to be covered by a leaf.

#3849 4 years ago

And I just want to add, I'm sorry Skit-B. I have been one of your biggest supporters for almost the whole ride. I stuck with you through the fight with the now-wife over buying the machine, through the asking for money when I almost just took the money out to buy an X-men. Through people calling bullshit on the license.

This was going to be my first pin. Been waiting patiently for 3 years, and you make me look like a fool. I doubt I could ever convince the wife to let me get a pin in the near to moderate future (we didn't even have room for this one). So the gloves are off now, I guess.

#3859 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Congrats man!

lol. Actually, the fight was over the fact that I had money for a pinball table, but not money for a ring. I made the mistake of arguing over the fact that yes, it was 5 grand, and even though I would never consider selling it, if I HAD to sell it I would get at least 3 back if it was a flop. Never once thought about paying and never getting a machine.

Don't feel bad for me though fellas. With a few exceptions ( like the the guy talking about he was only in because there was 250 and he thought he could make money -_-) there's 249 others like me. I'm a grown ass man and I make my own decisions and I live with them. It's just shitty is all.

#3870 4 years ago

This is bullshit. And this community f***ed up. Too many different agendas. I'm just here to play pinball man.

#3888 4 years ago



#3896 4 years ago

You guys keep saying "removed all videos." I've been here since almost the beginning, and obviously it's more obvious looking at hindsight. Let me enlighten a bit.

There was never any Predator videos on their website aside from that 2 minute demo they did in their basement with the UV lights (The one where I googled Predator pinball, found that, found out they were making more, introduced me to Pinside). But I digress, that is the only video EVER to do with Predator on their website. Then they update that website with the new format, enter Duckhunt, exit Predator vid. We were always asking why Predator wasn't featured on the website, so that was 2 to 2.5 years ago.

Then, they did the Thanksgiving 20 minute video in November 2012 I believe. Some time in late 2013, that video and the two older 5 minute ones disappeared. Now one would think that this is when the legal trouble happened, but we were told in April would be the big video. When asked why he pulled the video, he said something to the effect of it didn't represent what the final product would be and they didn't want potential buyers to be confused, which didn't make sense since the waitlist was 100 strong. When we asked if we, the owners, could get them in download format to get pumped, he said maybe but we never did.

April 2013 came and went. We didn't get shit for a long time after that except for shitty cellphone shot video. Then, February 2014, we get the mission complete video. Ok things are looking good. Then July we get the Player's guide. Awesoooome!! Then by August, those were removed. There's been the silence ever since.

So, all I wanted to point out to a lot of you is that we may look like idiots, but Predator was NEVER on the website, which has always been weird as hell but hey! they're taking them to shows right? So it has to be legit. AND before these last two videos got deleted, there was a purge of the first round of videos, so I thought this was just standard Skit-B procedure.

#3898 4 years ago

I apologize. Looking back, the 20 minute vid was on the website. I guess it got scrubbed on the duck hunt update.

I can't link to comments because the topic was closed, but September 2013 is when the website was updated with no Pred info. So, if that was the reason that the website was scrubbed, it's been a sham for a year and half.

#3994 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

The site was scrubbed of Predator reference sometime before Oct 2013. His email requesting full payments was sent April 18th, 2014. I have saved every single email and PM from Kevin.

The best I could do last night was a post on Sep 9 from skit-b announcing a change to the website, and then a post from 9-21 mentioning the fact that there was no predator on the new website.

#3997 4 years ago

WhysNow, Stern actually delivers when they take your money. JJP had proven themselves too. We've seen that neither Skit-B and Dutch pinball have proven themselves. I would ask that Aliens owners request proof.

And in the future, don't preorder from unproven people without proof.

#4086 4 years ago

No reason was acknowledged for Klump leaving. I saw on Facebook that he works for a body shop. Skit-b's pinside bio says they grew up operating arcades. He was listed on the site as the guy who was going to build the cabinets. I always assumed he left because the project got too big and wasn't just for fun anymore. Basically, I think he realized he was in over his head and got out.

And YK. I don't know about years man. I only started hearing the license rumors the past couple months.

#4105 4 years ago
Quoted from oopsallberrys:

Nibbles, I would try contacting Paypal. They may look into it since they are looking into mine (my request went through my CC company though. Always use a CC going through Paypal for extra protection.


#4229 4 years ago

This would kill me if anothe manufacturer made Predator. Absolutely fucking kill me. Unless I get my money back of course....shit

#4260 4 years ago

I just read all the anonymous stuff. Holy shit man. Sociopathic dude. I can't blame them for tipping off Fox. This is bullshit

#4315 4 years ago

I just can't get over the fact. He seriously thought once he had them built and shipped, this could never go back retroactively on them? Like someone from Fox wouldn't see one at a bar, see skit-b plastered on the side, done a quick google search that led him to Pinside, where some company sold Predator and is now making other games, and not sue the shit out of them!?


#4342 4 years ago

Did I read that right. The C&D came before the initial $250??? That long ago???? WHAT THE F! This could've been solved from the beginning?? I was under the impression the C&D was October 2014, not 2013.

The anonymous and pinball news conflict

#4405 4 years ago
Quoted from Jedidentist:

I regretfully filed my claim with Paypal for my $3000...for whatever good it will do. If we don't have a resolution within a week, I'll go to my credit card. I should have protection there. Why anyone paid with their bank accounts, I'll never understand.

Believed him I guess.

#4407 4 years ago
Quoted from trevorm:

I'll confirm from both my own personal experience as well as that of a number of close friends that your experience with Paypal is not uncommon.
They'll freeze funds when there's a large influx of cash that's not the norm, even on fairly active accounts.
I believe that a lot of Kevin's B.S. about his "special" Paypal arrangements were simply the account being frozen until he could prove the money was legit and, as happened with your translite's, prove he was shipping the product he collected money for.
I'd wager the failure to get any games out the door as well as the initial attempt to only build ten was partially due to not being able to get access to the frozen Paypal funds.
So, there might be some hope for a partial refund.

Only thing I can tell you is when we sent the $250, it was a"gift" as not to incur paypal charges, which 250 gifts will freeze an account because paypals not getting their cut. However, when we sent the big payments, it was a legitimate payment and not a gift.

But why are we talking about this statement? We know everything he said was swindler confidence bullshit

#4430 4 years ago
Quoted from molspin:

Damn, I don't know what's worse:
...the money I'm losing on Predator.
...the ruining of all my future viewings of Predator.

That's what I was saying last night man. Sullied my favorite movie forever. I'll never be able to watch it without remembering I got burned for 5 grand.

#4436 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Just so I can understand you, like Kevin feel that stealing IP is no big deal. Better if Kevin had gotten away with theft so long as the first few buyers got their pins.

Admittedly, I think this works better for him. Imagine he had gotten this all out the door and Fox eventually found out. He gets hit on 250 clear counts of copyright infringement.

This way, he might be able to wriggle his way out of it, not produce anything for us, and not pay us back.

#4454 4 years ago


#4457 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

I think at the end of the day....it was all greed. I don't think it started out that way, but the dollars signs started flashing. This really sickens me and just feel for everyone that got screwed over. Kevin will get his and hopefully there will be some (if not all) financial recovery for backers.

Definitely. That and the fame. Read that early quote in the pinballnews article. Something like they became a big deal, and people donated money to get them to shows because they're so awesome. And they never asked for money, we just threw it at him for a piece!

Probably still doesn't think he's doing wrong.

#4469 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

In 10 years, what do you think the 3 Predator prototypes will be worth?

Do they work better than they did at the expos?

#4474 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Totally disagree.... (btw- whats the "2nd wrong"? exposing the truth)?
Ethics aside:
Consider THIS scenario. We know it was going to take a LONG time for him to make these machines.... probably a year or more. So lets say 100 of the machines get made. Now Fox gets wind of it, shuts down Skitb and the other 150 pre-payers get zilch because Kevin burned through the bank account and was already spending money of EOD.
At least now, there's a CHANCE that ALL the prepayers can get an equal share back.... not just a few lucky folks at the front of the line.
Also, consider this:
Had that happened and FOX was left powerless to stop it, you think they would EVER agree to license more IP to pinball? Id say it'd be likely they decide we're all a bunch of f(*&kers and would NEVER license to another pinball manufacturer.

Low, face it, I know you're not invested, but we're not getting shit back.

#4477 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'll be honest, I never though it was a great game. I didn't care for how it flipped (those center targets were just annoying) and I didn't like the art. I'm not really sad for the loss of the game, just the money and years of hopes and dreams. That's what sucks.
I'm pulling for Heighway to ship Alien, for it to be awesome and the company legit, and then to give everyone the companion Predator game with art and design worthy of the theme.

Haha I never even got to play it. Now I can admit its 6 shots compared to an Xmen, and the fact that it seemed like a ball only went up the left ramp 1 out of 10 times, but Unload looked pretty damn cool.

#4485 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yes, I will.
...it just took me a while to read through things here, and part of the Pinball News article. Incredible and sad.
...as to what Kevin told me to "keep under wraps" for a while, while he was negotiating, was that Roger Sharpe was working on the license and JJP would probably be making the machine.

How much more is this gonna cost me?

#4493 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Was I reading the Pinball News article right? At the end they made it seem like someone may still pick up this project.

I read that too. I doubt they'll do it now after this shitstorm.

#4510 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I played the most recent prototyped at Expo 2014. I didn't hate it, or think it was ugly.
I also didn't like the game or the art much. The translite was bad. Deserved so much more.
I hope everyone gets their money back, and maybe gets to spend it on a Heighway Predator some day that will be more bad ass. Think how much cooler it could look.
predator2.jpg (Click image to enlarge)predator_fan_art_by_admirawijaya-d5kwcd0.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
Or what it could look like next to a matching cabinet Alien ...
alien_vs_predator_art_wallpaper-800x600.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

I was always somewhat partial to the art from Big Game.

#4514 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Well, curiosity got the best of me and i looked up their house....
It sold for $28,000 in November... $28K.... whats the mortgage on that, like $100/month?
So, point is, I don't think they are "living large", unless that *IS* living large in Midland Michigan . I think the deck on our house cost more than that so I'm having trouble relating.

Sold for. Well what's the price of the new one?

#4518 4 years ago

On second thought, I don't give a shit

#4530 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

I think that's the key piece.....the old one sold for that amount. I'm curious myself what the cost of the new one is.

Well I realized after a minute that the price he's talking about, is what it was sold for to them.

#4531 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

That may be the case. He said he didn't want to say anything until everything was negotiated.

But, he's telling you JJP and the article mentions Heighway...

#4561 4 years ago

Man, aside from these last two days, I've been pretty quiet the last year, but I've read it all. Whysnow is passionate, perhaps blindly passionate, and I can't speak for him on the subject of caring if it was licensed or not, but dude definitely didn't withhold info just to "get his." I don't believe that for a minute.

#4567 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It's his fault but let's be honest. Mr x wasn't saving the world . People being as so wonderful as we are ...

Dude, I think the motives were definitely personal. I did notice the line of the article that said they got their refunds AND THEN went after the truth. Shitty for the rest of us, for sure, but I can't hold this against them. I can't blame someone for wanting to find out if someone was scamming 250 pinsiders out of 1,000,000. The blame lands on one man alone.

#4574 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Bullshit rob . Taking down kevin in revenge came over the truth.
Anyone who honestly gave a shit would have focused on the buyers and not Kevin's down fall. This was bitter revenge not saving pinball.
Kevin makes me mad but this is almost as bad. And no it does not make anything ok. As I said two wrongs don't make it right.
Kevin's shit is real . But we will also see them for who they are . People are people and people love to f up . We will know everyone involved at some point . ; )

Ideally, how do you think things should have went down? I genuinely want to know and am not here for argument.

Edit: I mean knowing what we know now

#4585 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

So who is in the group...come one it's obvious to guess at least 4 of you. Come out and play ladies!

Haha I wish I could have seen these last night when I was in investigative mode. All we got was the one from Aurich. Give me tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I can figure out who at least wrote them.

#4606 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Playboy ,
Ideally 200 people would have games . sorry fox would have been screwed and that is wrong too. But I my eyes better than this . Just an ass hats opinion .
But I always side with the outcome that equals games in someone hands.

I get you man, and that's how I was feeling a few months ago when a lot of the guys I'm conversing with right now wouldn't let it go. Seems like a lot more here care for the drama then for pinball which is why I completely avoid pinside except for the Pred threads. I admit, I was thinking "just shut the fuck up so I can just get my game I've been waiting 2.5 years for and not get screwed." It's even worse that our whistleblowers made sure their money was safe first.

I don't know man, such mixed emotions. If dudes would have left it alone, we might have got our games, we might not have. It's like that guy that calls the cops for weed. Were we really hurting anybody? But in the end, it's Kevin that deceived us. It's Kevin that took our 3 or 5 grand and gambled on it. Right now, I don't care why he called out, it's the fact that it was possible to get called out to begin with. Hell, I've "known" Kevin longer than my current coworkers. I trusted this guy. Now I'm basically in a powerless situation and am just along for the ride. It's easy to blame the guys that put us here, and believe me I did and kind of still do, but like I said, they couldn't have put us here if it wasn't possible to begin with. And that responsibility lies with Kevin.

Just my opinion.

#4620 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I've talked with Kevin and his team many times over the years. I really think his intentions were good and he was just excited to make the game happen. I really think he thought he could sneak it in under the radar. I really think he could have, if it didnt' take so damn long to get the games done. If he would have pulled it off in the first year, I really think it would have happened. Never once out of all my conversations with him, did I ever get the impression he was out to get everyones money.

Of course he was trying to build them! If he was conning us, he would have never given us his real name! The point is that before he started accepting out money, he should have had a license first! The guy ate the pinside fame up. Why did he ever have to "sneak it under the radar?" We were going to give him a million fucking dollars!

#4623 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That guy is a dick, for the record.

I thought it was a great analogy for the anger against the anonymous.

#4706 4 years ago

Anybody else get the email this morning?

#4834 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am on a phone and not able to paste, but it was a personal matter for them and they had clear desire to leave preowners holding the stick.
they sent me an email yesterday saying they were happy they stopped this before the first batch went out becuase they wanted the first group to get the short end of the stick. They also were happy that people will learn a lesson. The annonymous group has been very vindictive and opted to side with fox rather than the preowners because they wanted to make sure this has as much impact as possible. I hope someone smarter than I can get to the bottom of whomthe annonymous group is as I think it will show that they were not merely an annonymous player that cared about the community.

Paste this email.

#4873 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

I just did this, they did open a dispute but apparently the system automatically closed it because it was past the 180 days. They did say they will send a "courtesy email" that I requested to be refunded, and if Kevin responds, they will let me know - but I am not very confident anything will be done.
The rep also told me to contact local authorities to report the issue, as well as, gave me the ic3.gov to report the online fraud.
At this point, I am giving Kevin until Friday to prove he is actually taking the refunds seriously. If not, I will submit everything I can to make sure he (and anyone else involved) is punished to the full extent.
If anyone has other suggestions for what I can do, please PM me.

Same here. Basically said they'd make notes to his account. I can try my bank or legal action. That's about it.

#4875 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Can I still put down a deposit to get the game?

I'll sell you my spot.

#4885 4 years ago
Quoted from PinB:

It looks like the first person I spoke to at PayPal gave me a false sense of hope. After calling PayPal back again & speaking to a different Claims rep, they told me that we would need to go through police, small claims court, or another source outside of PayPal. They did tell me that Skit-B's PayPal account was shut down some time ago. That partly explains why we haven't been able to get refunds over the last few months.

Hmmm. 250 small claims court cases. Bam.

#4894 4 years ago

I have a pretty good idea who actually wrote the emails, but what good does it do us now?

#4922 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

If anything it helps out Kevin as they prevented him from shipping out any machines which may keep the Fox lawyers from going after him.

I was thinking this too

#4940 4 years ago

I just received an email stating all moneys collected will be refunded in a few days

#4948 4 years ago
#4985 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Who knows what Kevin's true intentions were, but the best scam artists in the world know to target people's emotions. Predator for sure would be a hot seller which is maybe why he choose it?

Said this before but it started as a one-off, they shared it on Pinside, buzz generated and it snowballed with no forethought of whether it COULD get done.

#5002 4 years ago

A lot of folks are also forgetting that it cost $250 to get in on the waitlist, when JJP and Stern wanted the full amount up front. We got to be involved in the making of the pin for 2 years. Definitely didn't see this coming. Of course there's red flags everywhere looking back.

#5880 4 years ago

It looks like the one who wrote the wordpress site is someone other than the one who wrote the emails.

Or it was a collaboration.

#5891 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I think clearly the Wordpress posting was done by a single individual of the "anonymous group". I doubt the whole group collaborated on that.

Pretty sure at least two people were involved, if not more. One of them being the one who wrote the emails.

#6262 4 years ago

Damn, I wish this game got made.

#6280 4 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

The game played like crap, not just in layout but in mechanical glitches also.

Explain mechanical issues

#6314 4 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

I posted other people's opinions which I think were clear in their own right, and vid decides to debate them. Welcome to pinside. Now you want to argue with me.
Pinside... fun for the whole family.

To answer my question you posted other people's comments on the game? Yes, there were problems at the Expos, but that's what a prototype is. License issue aside, do you think they would have let the game go out with obvious mechanical issues? I mean, that's the reason why the game didn't go out a year and a half ago. Well, I suppose your answer is yes, so I don't agree.

Basically, you're saying you didn't like the layout. Fair enough. I'm simply saying that the theme, sounds, callouts, music and scenes is why I got into the project to begin with, and despite what's happening now, I still long for a Predator pin. Despite a lack of shots, Skit-B had some good ideas.

Sorry I deviated from the bandwagon Bloodsport guy, but Predator would still be my ultimate theme, and looking back on the past week, money issues aside, I'm still just disappointed that Predator is over.

#6496 4 years ago

Well, I just called my bank to dispute the charge since I paid with a Visa debit card.

Unfortunately, they told me that the second that they send this information to Kevin's bank, they will reject it as there's only a 60 day limit.

#6505 4 years ago

Well, unfortunately, after I get back in town after the weekend, I'm going to have to file. I've been waiting for 2.5 years. I'm done waiting.


Don't know if it'll do any good, but have to do something.

#6531 4 years ago

I think the proof you would need would be that he didn't have the license. All we have right now is the word of anonymous internet people.

#6569 4 years ago

The only thing that's not my money that I would like to see is concrete proof that Fox knew nothing about the pin. Although I believe it, I can't prove it. We would either need AG's correspondence from Fox, or I/we'd have to contact Fox ourselves.

However, I think I could get my money back in a legal system based on a "I payed you for something and you didn't deliver," but it would be nice to have a pre-mediated con attempt as a backup plan.

I don't see PBN as having that concrete proof, or not providing it in a way that I can use it as a legal prosecution, so I really don't give a shit about their article. It's just going to be Kevin's side of the story. Even if Kevin's side includes his plan for refunds, I guarantee you it won't be tomorrow or the end of the week. More like soon, swiftly, or a couple weeks.

#6805 4 years ago

So, is this lawsuit week?

#6833 4 years ago

The thing with a lawsuit is that in Michigan small claims court can go up to $5500. I want my $4750 back, but if I have to buy a plane ticket and take two days off of work, then I'm going to go after the $5500. Guy just needs to issue refunds before it gets worse for him.

#6836 4 years ago

Only problem I have is that if he has a lawyer, then he can request it be taken to real court. Then I would have to get a real lawyer, and since I'm the plaintiff, I don't think that entitles me to a court appointed attorney. Then I'm already out half the money. Then it would be multiple days, multiple plane tickets. Then even if you win, you still might not get paid. What a mess man. I just want a damn machine in my house so I can stop getting hammered every time I want to play!

#6857 4 years ago

"Small claims cases should be filed either where the cause of action arose (for example, where the transaction or dispute took place), where the person or business you are suing is located (for example, where the defendant resides or is employed). If you are suing more than one person or business, the suit cannot be filed where the claim arose but must be filed in the district court where any of the persons live or where any of the businesses operate."

"The answer is, maybe. As with face-to-face disputes, your ability to sue in small claims court for a wrong you suffered via an Internet transaction depends on where the person or business you want to sue is located. You cannot automatically sue someone in small claims court when you have suffered an economic loss. The court has to have power over that particular party, which basically depends on where the person or business lives, works, or has an office. If your Internet-related dispute is with a person or business located in your state, then you shouldn't have a problem. However, only under specific circumstances can you sue a nonresident in your state's small claims court.
If the person or business does not regularly do business with state residents over the Internet (in other words, if the transaction at issue is a one-time event), then you will not be able to sue in your local small claims court, because that person does not live, work, or regularly do business in-state; it is therefore fundamentally unfair to ask that party to travel to your state to defend itself from a lawsuit."

This was some of the stuff I was reading TigerLaw.

#6859 4 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

This is not a civil case. It is a criminal case and will be pursued as such.

Can you prove that he never had a license? I'm not being a dick. Just saying. Can you prove it?

#6862 4 years ago

I like your ideas Law, but the bigger this thing gets, the more money that gets involved, means more of us get screwed in the process. I don't know a thing about suing people, but I know a good defense lawyer is to least $2500. We all know that at least 1/4 has been spent. A class action thing would be nice but that means someone has to step up to the plate, and that won't be me.

Just a messy situation, but I'm going to take the steps in one direction by week's end.

#6873 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

It seems silly to be to see ~200 people wanting to file individual suit for $5k and essentially lose it all to legal fees when it could be one lawsuit with one legal team suing for the full amount, then dispersing the awarded sum evenly. [...] As I said, far from an expert here. More curious as to why we are seeing 200 unfortunate people worrying about 200 frustrating and potentially fruitless lawsuits when I personally see it as one large lawsuit.

This is what I'm talking about. We start talking about lawyers and that's at least half the money I spent on the machine. If it's more, he's going to want court costs payed for which screws over other buyers. I feel like a class action is the only way to get money back to our fellow buyers who are overseas. One dude was collecting a list, but I remember Blondetall collecting a list a few years ago and it only accounted for about 150 of the 250 owners. We would need to find all of the owners, get a guy leading us with a good knowledge of the legal system, and like Herb said, keep this shit behind the scenes.

I feel like a lot of guys (including myself a bit), are seeing this money slip away as the clock ticks by, or trying to get their money back before (if) Fox takes their cut, and that's why we're seeing individuals trying to talk to their own lawyers. I would take a percentage against what he has left if everyone got a fair percentage. Just need someone to lead us!

#6883 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I was hard-pressed to read through this self-important dreck -- these guys may have done some useful investigation but they clearly didn't make it through Freshman Composition.

Well, they are from Texas...

#6898 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Whysnow said repeatedly that he was being contacted by an unnamed "group from TX." Not sure if that's what they told him or if he drew that conclusion himself.

When someone writes 10,000 words, you find anomalies. Then you compare anomalies to posters from pinside. I'm fairly certain I know who at least wrote the majority, but there's not really a reason to share that as I'm not 100%. Just about 95%

#6949 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Personally, I think the first thing to do is contact the office of consumer protection in his state. Get the name of the person you talk to, and post it back here on this thread.
Then, everyone else needs to call that person.
Getting that office interested in this is your best first step, IMO.


#7027 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Question for those with experience in the matter:
Some people are getting credit back from their credit card companies. Surely the credit card companies have a recourse against Kevin (or PayPal?) since they are eating these charge backs...
My guess is the credit card companies charge a hefty fine to the person or entity who took the credit card payment when their is a charge back later. If that trial leads to Kevin then just the finess/fees from the credit card companies themselves are eating into whatever monies are left? I really don't know, perhaps the credit card charge backs aren't hitting the money pool Kevin presumably has left at all. Thoughts?

Pretty sure his bank has 180 days to dispute it. They can dispute it on how much time has passed. Just saying.

#7180 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

According to them, one of them has not yet.

The one I suspect wrote the emails, stated that they had got a credit card chargeback.

#7304 4 years ago

Well at least we know he, or at least his bank, is still alive!

They disputed my claim.

#7312 4 years ago

I believe my bank makes a claim to his bank, which disputed it. It's not like Kevin is picking and choosing I don't think.

#7315 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

But they still have to win the dispute right?

Yes, but I knew before filing a claim that it would be tough for me regarding the time that has passed.

#7523 4 years ago

I think he was trying to start a non profit so that if he "wasn't making a profit," it would fal under fair use.

Kevin, you knowingly led us on. That's why we're mad. But you know that. You're not stupid. I've got one solution to these problems. Pay me.

#7564 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

What I find troubling is that not one single vender(Fast, Virtual Pin, The dude that made the plastics) asked for a copy of the licence agreement before they took on the project? How unprofessional are these guys to take on a project without confirming there is a proper licence in place before replicating licenced material?? I would say that everyone involved with the production of this project dropped the ball. I never thought business owners would be so unprofessional.

I can't really blame them. Like them, I figured acquiring the license is the first and most important piece of the puzzle. Who in their right mind would start a project of this scope without that? I agree with Vid that there have been ripoffs in the past, but none that were the exact name and sounds and voices from the movie.

Who on this project wouldn't have paid an extra $250, making it an even $5000, to help cover the cost of the license?

#7690 4 years ago
Quoted from Ozzie:

1 - he has paid himself an annual salary that most here would object to(my understanding is that he has no other income or employment).

I see a lot of folks asking this. I remember asking Kevin this a long time ago. This was from Jan 9, 2013.

#7717 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Indeed. Although pissed at Kevin Kulek for this mess, no one died nor got physically injured. Further, I am pissed at myself for wearing the SkitB blinders and not seeing this crap sooner.
Lesson learned.

Quoted from BigPhil:

I actually championed Kevin through the rough times

Going back to see his comments, I'm forced to see my own, and it's embarrassing.

Dude made us look like fools.

#7747 4 years ago

You know, I've been thinking.

I'm curious to hear from Jetzxi, who had all of the inside info on Kevin leading up to this shitstorm. Not to witch hunt. Just curious about his take on it.

And on that same page, HemiOrange09 was working with Kevin to produce a lighting show they were going to sell for an extra $250. Just curious what happened to that guy, too.

#7789 4 years ago

Please PM email address

#7806 4 years ago

Damn, anyone else get that auto-reply from the Detective?

Shit just got real.

#7810 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Can it be shared?

I'll do it privately but please don't post publicly. We know the site is being watched.

Speaking of, hey Kevin's lawyer that I'm paying for. This can all go away if you just pay us back.

No harm no foul, right?

#7811 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I'll do it privately but please don't post publicly.

Ok, nevermind.

#7815 4 years ago

Seriuosly man. Gave him more than a month to return the monies. Didn't want it to come to this, but that wasn't my choice.

#7820 4 years ago

Oh, I'd also like to add to you Kevin, or Kevin's attorney. Even if I receive my money back from a credit card chargeback, I will not consider this a proper refund, and will not drop any criminal complaint that I have.

#7822 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Do we have a contact for the FBI to reach out to as well?

I actually do, but he is copied on all the emails.

#7845 4 years ago

There's no way vid. I estimate about a quarter is gone. There's no way it's "all" gone.

#7862 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

and 2 "employees"

You know, that's another weird thing I noticed. James Dubay is the one who did the art for Predator. When you went to the "updated" web site, they had 2 guys listed for artist. There was very little work done for Predator after the original drawing. Maybe a few plants added. Were these guys just friends drawing paychecks?

Actually, as I'm writing this, they might have been artists for pin #2.

#7872 4 years ago

To think, this all could have been avoided by acquiring the license up front.

#7879 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

it's unlikely that he could have ever acquired the license up front... they were self admitted kids in a basement, with zero money, zero plan, zero business structure, zero production experience, zero zero zero... you think fox was going to license their ip to them?

Money moves mountains

#7884 4 years ago

Yeah I hear you. Learned a lot in two years.

#7888 4 years ago

Do you mean Michigan Expo? I guess their point is, if these guys aren't working on the game, what are they doing at expos? Certainly not paying for own trip, I guarantee you that.

#7891 4 years ago

Yeah, I was waiting to hear from him too.

#7893 4 years ago

Well shit.

#7895 4 years ago

Oh yeah Jet, about that. You might want to set your facebook to private.

Seemed like you were closer than any of us to KK. You talk to him since March 23, the day he sent his last public email?

#8012 4 years ago

Just great man. 2.5 years waiting for this shit, then when he can't deliver, keeps all the money. I've got all the fun of owning a pinball machine, without owning a machine.

Hopefully after their little meeting this week, the lawyer advises KK to refund. Probably won't happen though.

#8020 4 years ago

Did you guys who just sent something yesterday or today get a different autoreply maybe?

#8022 4 years ago

I can see the "won't discuss ongoing investigations" now.

#8024 4 years ago

It's not like we were groomed overnight. They had a prototype and charisma. They were regularly on the boards for more than a year. Basically, if he had a license to begin with, there's a good possibility these would have been made, even if they had to outsource production.

#8028 4 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

license does not = machine.this project was nothing more than a dream..i have read this a few times on other posts on pinside to outsource......what do you think that would do to original selling price?..outsource to who? I don't think other pinball manufacturing companies are waiting for people to walk in off the street with projects..to manufacture and support a project like this takes much more insight,production experience and money than kevin could ever hope to achieve..he never even faced full production with all the problems that go with that ...charisma?? is that the new word their using these days for a bullshitter??

Wow, where were you two years ago?

#8035 4 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

if I would have come on here and given my view I would have been blasted down same as others

Probably, yeah.

As for the rest of it, I couldn't really tell you. Don't have much knowledge in the pin building world to see that it was an impossible task. I think they had talked about putting ten together every week. It seemed possible to me. I can only speak for myself, but it's hard for me to explain to someone who wasn't in on it why I believed it. When you stretch out all of these posts over a few years, it looks a lot different than going back and reading it all at once, especially knowing what we know now. I guess anyone who was conned thinks how the hell did that happen, but always after the fact. Guess it's kind of in the same ballpark of folks who preorder a Stern that doesn't do great, or not an ACDC or Tron I guess, but defend it because they want to believe it was a good buy.

Can't explain it man. I believed him. Sorry about your stroke.

For the record, I think charismatic folks make the best bullshitters.

#8049 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

People paid $20-$25K for Matrix which was actually an awesome game and only a handful were made.

Are you talking about that retheme that a member here did?

#8052 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Yes, made by the Pinnovating guys. There was more than 1 made.

Awesome. Never knew they sold it, or that there was more than one.

#8095 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

First, in such a civil case as this, neither side is allowed legal representation.

Enaud, when I was looking into this matter myself, I found this line from courts.mi.gov in regards to small claims court.

"If you want an attorney to represent you, you should tell the court before the trial, and the case will be transferred from the small claims division to the regular district court. See MCL 600.8408 and form DC 86"
"Either party may request that the case be removed from the small claims division. In that situation, the trial will not be held and the small claims case will be treated like a regular civil case and decided later."

Considering his lawyer is free, he will most certainly be able to get representation. Then, if you aren't prepared, you'll be without representation fighting against a lawyer.

Then, even if you get the ruling... "If the party owing the judgment fails to pay the judgment when ordered, you must go back to the court and file additional papers to collect on the judgment by having the wages or a bank account garnished or property seized. This cannot occur until 21 days after the judgment is entered. "

I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is what I found for MI courts.

#8096 4 years ago

Also, linking to that email might not help, as it was a personal email. The group email looks better.

"At this point, the faith in what we've worked so hard to achieve has been absolutely shattered and I am left with no other option than to abandon everything and make good on our promises that your investments are safe and return all money associated with the project until anything else happens, if anything else should happen."

"To the many of you who have continued to support us and prefer to receive your game, I'm sorry to say that this is the end of the road and you, too, will be receiving a refund instead of a machine."

#8100 4 years ago

Free as in we're paying for it.

#8106 4 years ago
Quoted from crlush:

I hope everything works out for you, but I wouldnt count on him showing up for court.

That would actually be the best outcome

#8142 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Gary is a crap pile, and did produce the world's most famous pedophile; Michael Jackson.
But Detroit is still 65% abandoned and untaxable; and is officially murder city USA.
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure which is worse......

detroit cock city.jpg

Hey don't be lumping the rest of Michigan with Detroit man.

#8223 4 years ago

I looked into it, but not that much. Make inquiries with a local attorney and see if you can get the civil suit in your state/province/country. That way if he doesn't show, you win by default.

However, it's the chasing him down for the next 5 years that has me hesitant. Wage garnishment on what?

I wish we could do a class action, as that would be the only way to help out our overseas brethren, but someone would need to step up and be the move maker. Out of 150-180 people, Rommy's list only managed to find 83 guys. This is messy as hell.

#8233 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

No, no, no! Proof that he planned to con people right from the start! BIG difference.

But that wouldn't matter in a civil case would it? We paid Kevin for a machine, he stated himself that the project is over and funds are safe, and hasn't paid anyone back.

That to me is the definition of a slam dunk. This isn't kickstarter. I'm not a shareholder. I gave him money for the return of a product. A product which I still lack. Bing Bang.

#8276 4 years ago

We'll see. Money's been in my account for 3 weeks, but still pending. We'll see.

#8278 4 years ago

Kind of. Visa debit card used to pay paypal.

#8285 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I thought playboywillis might have been in a different category based on some of his other comments (sounds like he was, sort of, having used a debit card instead of a credit card, but of course that still has the VISA guarantee that a direct account withdrawal through PayPal does not). Glad he was able to get his money back at least.

Only for 60 days, but sent mountains of shit to the bank after charge was disputed. We'll see if fraud trumps policy.

Sorry, what I was referring to was "still has Visa guarantee"

#8367 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I used to be one of the top 10 sellers in one of these types of companies when they were new, then once they turned into a "recruit every single person you can" pyramid scheme I bailed out quick. I went from earning free trips to Vegas, NYC, and Naples Florida to only getting my hotel paid for at training and getting emails saying "since you aren't recruiting, we are dropping your buying discount to below what new people sign up at."

Had a guy try to rope me into one of these before. The promise of riches and dreams coming true.

I tried once to get an apprenticeship for an elevator union in Michigan. I took a test with about 200 other candidates and they were looking for 2 people. I had no experience and I forgot how to do fractions on the test (I'd been out of school for 8 years!). Anyway, i didn't get the job. Whatever, I tried.

Two weeks later this guy calls me up and said he was one of the five guys that interviewed me, and I showed real promise and "just barely got beat out by the 2 other guys." He said, "I can help you get a job at another elevator union in a different state if you'd be willing to move." So, we set up a time and met at a bar that I frequented to talk about it. After around 10 minutes, the conversation shifted to this thing called T.E.A.M. How would I like to be rich? I told him a job making $32/hr to work on elevators would be more than enough for me. How would I like to never have to work again? I told him I wouldn't know what to do with my time. I immediately saw through this guy's bullshit but kept it going because I needed the job. We met two more times, both times the conversation turned to T.E.A.M. and once I even drove up to where he lived to attend a T.E.A.M. seminar. It was just....bullshit. No other way to put it.

Finally, this guy says we should have one more meeting so I told him I would only do it if we actually talked about the job and how I was going to get it. Told him I'd look into joining his group after I had an income. So we meet at the same bar we've been meeting at, and he was bringing some guys he wanted me to meet (that lived about 2 hours away) and we'd talk about the job. I knew these were just going to be his cronies, but gave him a chance. In walks him and two other guys and they come sit at the table. They immediately started talking about T.E.A.M. and how they'd like me to be a part of it. I stare at this guy for 5 minutes, never looking at his friends once while they try to recruit me. When they get done talking and are waiting for me to reply, I stand up and say, "Sorry you guys drove all the way here, but this guy lied to you. I'm never joining this bullshit pyramid scheme," and went and sat at the bar.

Two days later the guy calls me and gives me the number to two unions in cities I talked about moving to. They tell me that they just got done with the hiring process. I drop the guy's name and tell them what he told me. They pretty much laugh me off the line and say, "You can try next year when we start up interviews again."

What a piece of shit.

#8374 4 years ago

I'm sorry man, but I don't think the detective is going to help with anyone's money. The only way is a civil lawsuit.

#8375 4 years ago

And also, I never believed that Kevin didn't empty the Paypal as soon as money was received. In his words, he needed it for the project.

Now that I'm writing this, if he did transfer it to a bank, he would have had to have given them some explanation for it. Claimed it on his taxes or something right?

#8398 4 years ago
Quoted from BigPhil:

My PayPal case was opened on 16th April. Just noticed it was closed on 1st May.
Status details - We've finished reviewing this case. You don't need to do anything else.
Errrrr.....so does this mean I keep my money? Kevin/Skit-B were supposed to have 45 days to respond. I haven't had any follow up emails. Damn confusing. The money is still there on my credit card.
Edit: -
Just looked up why it's closed....
Step 7 - Case closed
The chargeback case is closed because there is insufficient evidence to dispute the chargeback.
So I guess it's ruled in my favour and I get to keep my money. What a relief!

For the benefit of our overseas brethren, and others who have been disputed, when did you pay Kevin Kulek? Did you open a case with your credit card company or through Paypal? What evidence did you supply for your case?

Any details would be helpful for others.

#8406 4 years ago

Ah, ok. All my information is on my bank's website. I saw you guys were saying that it was your paypal dispute that you were getting money from and I was wondering how you got them to keep a claim open for you.

Yeah, my paypal account says nothing, but I still have the money in my bank account pending.

#8430 4 years ago

I remember being 15 and the internet was relatively new, and going through the "I'm gonna troll the message boards today" phase. Good times.

#8448 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I'm making it a vacation. It's a drive, but I'm going to have fun. At least I'm away from work for a week!!!!!

Hopefully you're not driving all the way up for the arraignment.

#8465 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

It's small claims court.

Oh shit, ok. I thought you were talking about the FBI case.

#8494 4 years ago

Wonder what's up with Enaud

#8502 4 years ago

Was just thinking, people should throw those skulls up for sale on ebay around halloween. Might be able to make $150 back. You never know.

#8511 4 years ago
Quoted from Gorno:

I have a feeling he isn't stupid enough to think people will ever buy a pinball machine from him again. Skit-B is likely dead in the water.

I don't know. This Predator themed machine is starting to sound good to me. I'm going to look into that.

#8512 4 years ago

Enaud, was this a small claims case, or a civil case?

#8522 4 years ago

Dude that 21 days will come and go, and Enaud will have to fight for wage garnishments on a non-existing job.

#8523 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

I started a gofundme campaign to get all the money back that's been stolen from me through pinside preorders.
My goal is $50,000
Hobbit, Predator, Big Labowski, La Raza, Magic Girl, Aliens
Please help, any donation is appreciated.

What happened to Aliens?

#8561 4 years ago
#8564 4 years ago

Was wondering the same thing

#8573 4 years ago
#8645 4 years ago
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:

At this time Skit-B continues to work with the legal right holders to correct any licensing issues in the hope of eventually delivering on their product.

To the many of you who have continued to support us and prefer to receive your game, I'm sorry to say that this is the end of the road and you, too, will be receiving a refund instead of a machine. - Kevin Kulek

Quoted from Mitch:

Hes basically said that people have been receiving refunds who want them and paypal has been working with us to send our requested refunds.

I'm glad the cops and lawyers read our emails.

#8754 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Unfortunately "Enaud" has fallen victim to the same hysteria, believing that what he is reading on the internet is true, when it is not.

Right, because it's been more than 2 months since we heard this. "The refund process is expected to be swift and completed very soon." -Kevin Kulek

Which is the last thing we heard.

1 week later
#9009 4 years ago

Been busy today. Saw a lot of you guys got refunds and that's awesome. I'm curious if anyone got a refund that didn't have an open dispute. Might not be Shit-B but just PayPal that released funds?

Anyway, wanted to chime in that my claimwas settled through my bank. I got my money back.

#9017 4 years ago

This is quoted from Strohs but mobiles not working right.

I submitted a claim that they said would be disputed due to my debit card having a 60 day policy.

Claim was refuted.

I sent a shit load of the evidence.

Switched to "information was received, investigating."

2 weeks later switched to "waiting on information from merchant. No action required by you" for more than a month.

Claim resolved.

#9119 4 years ago

Damn, this sucks to hear.

I still want to know if anyone was refunded that did not have a pending claim.

#9130 4 years ago

I'm wondering if refunds started, then he realized he has no idea of knowing who already got a chargeback due to idiocracy?

This is weird.

2 weeks later
#9288 3 years ago

I suggest all of our brethren out of the US to get hold of this guy. Might be your only shot.

2 months later
#9510 3 years ago

Come on fellas. I remember this new account with the troll avatar from a few months ago.

Must have had some beers tonight and got hungry again.

#9532 3 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm curious what the state of the code was prior to this whole mess blowing up?

Far as I know, it was finished.

Quoted from PinChili:

I think there was at least video of the blacklight effect working, no?

This was never shown under gameplay conditions. The only time it worked was when a blacklight was held over the playfield

#9544 3 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I did find this video from MGC '14 that shows the blacklight working. But I find only a handful of videos for Predator and none seem to describe the modes (or number of modes) and I certainly can't find the wizard mode intro video that Nibbles described above.
If anyone knows of a better video showing the modes in more detail please let me know! Thanks.
» YouTube video

Quick Multiball:
- Awarded from Mystery
- Two ball
- Stackable
- All major shots score 10M apiece
Standard Multiball:
- Achieved by lighting and activating ball locks.
- Three ball
- Stackable
- Ramps and loops score jackpots of 25M once apiece. When all jackpots are cleared, Jungle Hole lights for 100M Super Jackpot. After Super is achieved, lower right eject will relight jackpots.
Hunt Multiball:
- Activates upon fourth successful Hunt shot.
- Stackable
- Three ball
- Single shot lights for 40M. After 5 seconds, another shot is added, but value of those shots drops to 30M. After another 5 seconds, another shot is added and drops the value by 10M again. This process continues until 4 shots are lit and the value bottoms out at 10M. Process starts over when a lit shot is made.
Killing Spree Mini-Wizard Mode:
- Awarded by making all shots (left loop, left ramp, jungle hole, right ramp, right loop, right eject) three times each.
- Three ball
- Stackable
- Each playfield shot correlates with a team member. Shot value starts at 20M and goes up by 10M by eliminating the team in the proper sequence. When a shot is made out of sequence, the value resets back to 20M.
Showdown Wizard Mode:
- Awarded by completing all HUD modes.
- Four ball
- Standalone
- All playfield shots are worth 25M and add 10M to Showdown Jackpot value that is collected at the Jungle Hole.
Unload HUD Mode:
- Starts by shooting the Jungle Hole when Unload Mode is lit (fourth mode)
- Four ball
- Standalone
- Flipper hold coils are disabled and all balls are continuously launched back into play for 30 seconds. All switches score their normal value +1M. For every ball that drains, that value is decreased by 10% for the duration of the mode.
Reveal HUD Mode:
- Starts by shooting the Jungle Hole when Reveal Mode is lit (sixth mode)
- Up to four ball
- Standalone
- When started, a second ball is added to play. Another ball is added when the left ramp is made, and yet another when the right eject is made. Right eject, left ramp and Jungle Hole are lit during this mode, and the values increase or decrease depending on how many balls are currently in play.

#9545 3 years ago


That's a video with blacklight.

They deleted all the videos that had all the modes on them, including the one with the showdown intro.

4 weeks later
#9930 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Believe it or not, I got some nice speakers off of the 'guys in the white van' in a parking lot in the late 90's. I talked them down so cheap that I figured it was worth it for the towers I could see in the box, even if the speakers ended up being MIA. Turned out they were just an unknown brand, but sounded/looked great and I still use them for my entertainment center today. You just never know.

Was the brand DaVinci?

6 months later
#10426 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Be patient. I am also on the legal boat. Won't give up.

Please don't. Today was the first time I felt like watching since all this bullshit. Used to watch this movie all the time. Just made me think about you guys still fighting the good fight. This would have been a great table and F this guy for everything.

Still think of the dude in Germany who paid for 9 of these. Shit man. Kevin what a dick.

10 months later
#14359 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

He possibly thinks he has found some loophole about building a small batch of games and not needing specific licensing arrangements. But he tells everyone he does.

He had claimed that Skit-B was a non-profit business. If he actually believed this and it wasn't a scam, I think this is how he thought he could get around licensing.

Quoted from flynnibus:

People start investigating Kevin's claims by going around him to people like FOX and find out he's full of shit wrt to licensing. The general public still lives in denial.

I think this was due to the fact that the general public didn't know this was happening. I don't believe the anonymous sleuths have ever revealed themselves. I doubt we can find their names on the list of people who need to be paid, considering they undoubtedly got their money out before dropping the bombshell. It wasn't until I was given a copy by someone in this thread who randomly received it due to being "a level headed pinsider" that I realized the depth of Kevin's bullshit. I asked for my money back that night, but the fire was already burning. It was the day after when he sent the "people are slandering me" email/post.

Geez man. Almost six years with this crap.

#14361 2 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Nothing good comes from prepay pins.

Tell that to the Tron/ACDC crowd. I never would have sold it, though.

Reading back this court document from the 20th where KK talks about money, I just wonder how he planned to do this shit after having blown $200k on what, R&D? I mean Keith brings up the 1.2M, which I get, but it was likely closer to $500k. But still, it sounds like he ate up 20% of his money with four machines to show for it.

I admit I've been out of the loop for a while and have read back the thread since I left, but I know I've missed some things (like allegations that these pins are out in people's homes somewhere). I just don't get a lot of it. I guess a lot of the missing money could have gone to paying 4 people's salaries for 3 years.

#14363 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

The problem with the last statement is there's no business record of paying any salaries. No w2, w4 or 1099. So while he may have funneled money to individuals helping what's the chances those payments were reported by those individuals as income? In an effort to scam the system they'll all be on the hook for repaying that money to the bankruptcy trustee...as to the court it just looks like a means to safeguard I'll gotten gains. And if somehow they convince the court it's legitimate income, then uncle Sam will be coming for its share.

I understand all of that. The problem with that problem is that KK paid his employees under the table with no tax records. It's very likely that his employees claimed none of this on their taxes while being paid under the table. I doubt any of these payments show up on his spreadsheet except possibly under "miscellaneous" and "unknown." Even if you can prove (to a court - we all know they worked for him) that they worked for him, we have no idea how much they were paid.

What would a default judgement on that be? Tax evasion, but for how much? Would they have to cover a percentage of his debt? Would it just be criminal charges, and if so, on what amount of money? I really don't know.

#14372 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

If you were from Michigan and saw him you wouldn't have...the problem with the digital age.

Judging by his workshop in the early pictures, I could see that he wasn't a rich guy, but you want to believe that people are genuine and honest unless proven otherwise. It was only $250 for, if I remember right, around two years. There seemed to be regular progress. There seemed to be a working prototype and a plan for the code. The idea I think with any machine is to hone the prototype (hardware - software can always be updated later) and then when that's perfect, mass produce, right? The issues came when this prototype could never quite get past 80-90%. The few people who spoke the truth about the issues from the game at shows (which I admit a lot of us didn't want to hear) were uncovering valid concerns, but there always seemed to be progress. It helped that Kevin was available on the forums...just like that No Man's Sky guy.

I guess what I'm saying is that for a few years the slope seemed to be steadily rising. It was still rising when the request for more money was made. Then it plateaued for a year, then came crashing down in an instant. I still don't believe the deception was the plan since the beginning, but it doesn't matter. At some point KK and Klump had a talk about the IP and decided not to acquire it legally. Whether they lied to themselves that they would acquire it later, we can only speculate, but it wasn't done, they knew it wasn't done, and lied to every one of us that it was. End of story.

I still believe that had they had that license, 250 people would have eventually got their machines. Now, whether they would have had to use Experts of Dangerous money to do that since they squandered a shitload of Predator money, who knows.

Edit: Also, where that soundcloud Wolfmarsh?!

#14375 2 years ago

Thank you sir! I missed last year but I'll make an appearance there. To be honest, I took a break from pinball playing and news for about 7 months, but I'll give em hell. If it goes as late as it has been I'll have to leave early for a wedding reception I committed to long before the tournament was announced, considering I even make it that far.

I'd say I'll see you around but I'm heading back to MI in June. Probably get involved in the scene up there. Playing in Charleston these past few years has been fun. It's come a long way thanks to the routers. According to Pinball Map there's 65 machines in the Charleston area in the wild. Highest number in one establishment went from 3 to 8. Big difference from 7 years ago.

I also appreciate your help in the Predator matters. Best of luck my man!

#14388 2 years ago

You bring up some good points that I can't dispute. I think you might've changed my mind.

#14443 2 years ago

Holy Smokin Toledos