(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

4 years ago

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  • 18,301 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 hours ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#4452 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

I think at the end of the day....it was all greed. I don't think it started out that way, but the dollars signs started flashing. This really sickens me and just feel for everyone that got screwed over. Kevin will get his and hopefully there will be some (if not all) financial recovery for backers.

It seems like he initially thought he was doing a handful of one off machines and wouldn't need a licence maybe but have no idea how he continued for so long and through out c and d orders without realising he was in big trouble.

I just hope people get their money back.

#4495 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Ohhhhh man is Kevin going to be amused Monday morning when he lands in the Cayman Islands and sees all this waiting for him...

fixed for accuracy

#4521 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Well, curiosity got the best of me and i looked up their house....
It sold for $28,000 in November... $28K.... whats the mortgage on that, like $100/month?
So, point is, I don't think they are "living large", unless that *IS* living large in Midland Michigan . I think the deck on our house cost more than that so I'm having trouble relating.

Wow are houses really that cheap in Michigan? I should move there.

#5152 4 years ago

Don't understand the people defending Kevin here, he either sold a product knowing he didn't have the rights too which is scamming people or he initially thought he had the rights but kept selling it and kept taking money without alerting his customers once he knew there was an issue (when he got the c and d letters). Either way he was scamming people by selling something he didn't have permission to sell.

It's hard to retroactively judge the people who knew and waiting to spill the beans as well, who knows what could have happened if they had told everyone with out Fox's permission and Kevin had run off with the money or something else had happened which leaves them on the hook.

Just out of curiosity does anyone here work on manufacturing licensed products and do you ask to see 100% proof before working on something every time?

#5206 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Ok, so I get that. Again, that doesn't mean he wasn't going to produce the games and ship.
He would obviously be sued by Fox at that point, but still not a scam perse to the end user.
We haven't ruled out that Kevin is literally that dumb/ignorant to ignore and continue to produce lol/
I get what you are saying, and do agree to a point, but Im just saying maybe he really did have the anticipation of thinking Fox would simply let this go? Obviously an ignorant stance of his if he took that, but not unlikely.

It's still a scam.

If I sell you a block of land, you take ownership, build a house, move in. Then it turns out I didn't own that land in the first place I still scammed you even though you got the finished product. You bought something you thought was on the up and up and turned out not to be. It's a scam. If Kevin thought he honestly had a licence and wasn't scamming people he would have announced he had issues when he received the cease letters and alerted everyone to the fact he was either getting a licence (which he had no chance of from the sound of things) or tried to refund peoples money and work the situation out. He didn't do that though he kept taking money.

Who knows what could happen down the line with an unlicensed pin, if someone puts it on route to make a profit could fox then go after them? I've heard of businesses getting in trouble when they've had unlicensed software (regardless of if they thought it was licences) so could the same thing happen here?

#5239 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

No, there was educated guesses and "tea leaf" reading by many on here. No hard facts shared. (Full disclosure - after Expo I got out because of false promises Kevin made in an email that did not materialize at Expo). I was fortunate and it wasn't easy getting out)
The simple point I keep making is if anonymous spoke to the lawyer at Fox and confronted Kevin - no need to find an established pinside voice. It's all fact now not "tea leaf" reading. Why the cloak and dagger crap? Why BS emails to taunt Whysnow? Why work with Fox over the community? I'm very glad they investigated - how they communicated is BS.
I get the "drowning out" factor. Trust me, I got into it with one of the more "established" pinsiders spouse who was zealous and took it to PM to resolve. Lessons learned for everyone who is passionate. But when supported facts are presented (like talking to a lawyer), speak it from the highest mountain brother.

And what if they went public but Kevin got a license in the end and then fox and kevin went after anonymous for costing them sales? What if Kevin did a runner and Fox went after anonymous? I don't see it as a black and white issue as there was more factors happening at the time.

#5242 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

...I think it's black ...and blacker...

I'm just talking about anonymous keeping quiet, I think it's a clear cut fraud on Kevin's part, but it's hard to judge the anonymous group in hindsight imo.

#5248 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

As the story goes, anonymous spoke to the lawyer - first hand - who confirmed, no license. Then asked anonymous to help Fox investigate and to collect more info. This, supposedly after a C&D was issued to Kevin. So how would making this public impact anything or hold them liable? It's fact.

Didn't it also say they were specifically told by the lawyer not to say anything? Sure they could have said, they didn't sign an NDA, but at the same time I don't think it's a simple thing to place blame on them when it was Kevin who chose to take money knowing full well he was being taken down by Fox at the same time.

#5256 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

How in any way, shape or form could Fox or Kevin go after someone simply because they chose to enlighten the community about what was really going on. They were under no obligation to stay silent, even if Fox asked them to.

Imagine if they went public, everyone pulled out demanded refunds got out their pitchforks, then Kevin did secure a license and with Fox now in his corner deny they never had a problem, who would be blamed then for the failure of the project? There's a lot of factors involved.

#5284 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Sure, there were many possible outcomes at that point, but one fact was indisputable ... Kevin built his company on a lie. Once this lie was exposed, I would argue that everyone who was in on the game had a right to know. Don't keep that information a secret. Share it with the community and let the chips fall where they may.

I suppose you could look at it that, I guess they could have also just leaked the info anonymously again to the buyers. I guess I'm always wary of laying blame on people when I don't know the full circumstances but you guys do have good points.

#5286 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

Yes it is common sense to request to see the license. What normally happens is a copy is made. Then sensitive information like price is struck through with a thick black marker. You then make a copy of the copy so no bleed through can be detected. Many times this copy is just given away for you to keep as you manufacture others I. P.
Oh yeah, you always check the date and the duration to make sure you are not potentially outside of them. In other words whatever contract you enter into make sure it is not outside the terms of the I.P. contract.

Thanks, I've never worked with IPs before and was just curious as to how it's usually handled.

5 months later
#9635 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

It's interesting to go back and read PinChili's posts on this very thread. Suffice it to say that he was highly critical about the illegal nature of Kevin's project because of the unlicensed IP.

Does anyone know how had got that machine yet?

#9676 4 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

I'm sorry, but I see absolutely no wrong doing on the head of the guy that bought the prototype. Even if he bought it directly from Kevin which it sounds like he didn't even do. This man didn't take your money and he doesn't have your machine. I understand that's a bit of hypocrisy to statements he made but I have to agree that if one of these prototypes were suddenly to come availible to you most people would have done the same.
As for the people who are spouting off about how the machine belongs to fox and he's such a bad guy because of illegal liscensing ect one big question for you: WHY aren't you guys saying the same thing over in the threads where the dude is building minions pinball? Where's the pitchforks for the Archer pinball build? Where's the calls for reporting to the copyright holders on the nightmare before Christmas pinball? If the builder put one up for sale would you buy it? I bet you would because there's plenty of people asking and all I see is oooos and ahhs and praise over there. Give me a break.
I can understand not being exactly thrilled that somebody was able to end up with one of these when so many others were completely scammed, but your fight is not with this man. It's with Kevin and skit b pinball. All I see is jealous rage and looking for an easy target to crucify to satisfy your bloodlust until legal proceedings on the real crooks happen. You guys should be ashamed.
Now proceed with the downvotes

If those guys started taking pre orders and explicitly telling people that they had the rights to those IPs it'd be a fair comparison.

#9680 4 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

My point was in comparison to the fact that people think it's illegal to own this game because its not liscensed. Yes the circumstances surrounding this game are different, but again, this pinchili guy isn't who scammed you. For him to own this game is no different (as far as liscensing is concerned) than if somebody bought the nightmare before Christmas pinball.
You guys are combining 2 separate issues.
Issue 1: Kevin kulek lied about everything and took everyone's money. Somewhere along the way Kevin sold one of the prototypes and this pinchili guy ended up with one. This should be yet another strike against Kevin and not pinchili. Pinchili didn't take your money. Pinchili didn't take your game. Pinchili didn't lie to you repeatedly about the circumstances regarding the game. I realize the game is somewhat toxic but at the end of the day he bought a prototype of an infamous game that nobody has (and not even from Kevin himself mind you). He has done nothing to harm any of you in any way. Only Kevin has done that.
Issue 2. Butthurt people who are mad that somebody owns this prototype game are trying to use the liscensing thing as a means to say pinchili can't own it. This is where the comparison to the other one off games based on licenses comes in. There's only 2 ever made. It's essentially a one off machine no different than the others I mentioned. It just so happens that the creator of this one off game also decided it would be a good idea to scam everyone while he was at it. Pinchili didn't scam you, what he did was no different than if you bought the nightmare before Christmas and a ridiculous argument.
Everyone wants Kevin to get what's coming to him, myself included. But people are angry and impatient and I don't blame them. However, people are letting their rave cloud their rationale and just want somebody to suffer in the meantime. Pinchili didn't scam anyone and he had nothing to do with any of it. It's not fair to lump him in with Kevin just because he's the current owner of one of the prototypes.

I agree on the pinchilli stuff just for the record. I think people have been far too hard on him especially without hearing his story of how he came by the machine. I think it was fair for people in the lawsuit to want his details to provide for their lawyer to check things out but I don't agree with broadcasting them and people contacting him on facebook with abuse and threats. I still don't see it as a fair comparison with the other non licensed one off pins though, this machine was funded through fraud and deceit whereas those are being made by fans on their own dime.

#9696 4 years ago
Quoted from PinRebel:

That is a pretty serious threat dude. That's not cool. It's creepy enough you stalked him and took pictures of him from a distance. Are you telling us he wasn't driving a Porsche or even a brand new fancy truck? Maybe I'm missing where it was discussed in the past but how is it that out of 250 pre-orders there are only 15-16 people at this point on a lawsuit with this Keith? I thought the majority of the pre-order people were here on this site? Is it possible the majority of people have gotten their money back now and don't want to brag about it or hurt other people's feelings who haven't gotten their money back yet? I obviously don't know the details of how many people are still looking for their refund but inciting people to confront him in a threatening way does not seem right at all. This crap should stop. Let it work through the legal system.

If you saw someone in public who had thousands of dollars of your money in their pocket you would advocate not confronting them? He didn't threaten violence he just said he was close to confronting Kevin and earlier he said he talked his friend out of violence. I sure as hell would approach him and loudly ask him where my money was and make him feel unwelcome. I find it odd you've made 15 posts total and 12 have been in threads about kevin.

#9706 4 years ago
Quoted from PinRebel:

He stated "come back here next month, I DARE YOU". That is very threatening. Not sure how you see it otherwise. That's not right.

...all it means is he won't be welcome there as it should be. Kevin didn't just have a failed business he flat out lied to people and kept trying to lure in buyers despite receiving multiple cease and desist orders.

#9776 4 years ago
Quoted from PinRebel:

And why is nobody going bat sh.t crazy over all the people that create pinball toppers and other mods using copyrighted IP? It's everywhere.

and if those companies sent a cease and desist they'd have to stop. kevin got multiple c&ds and kept taking orders and telling people it was fine.

It's like computer game mods, most of the industry are fine and ignore it but if they request you stop you have to abide by that and stop what you are doing.

Also for pinchili part of the issue having that game would be the circumstances of how he acquired it and if kevin was hiding assets.

1 year later
#17177 2 years ago

Wow wasn't reading pinside for awhile and thought this would have been resolved by now. I feel for everyone who's losing money due to this and it looks like the situation just gets crazier

#17203 2 years ago

It's not investing to buy a pin before they are made is it? If i pay someone upfront to build a custom table i'm not investing in that dudes business I'm just buying a product and he needs the money upfront for the materials.

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