(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 21 days ago by Mr68
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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)


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#2791 4 years ago

I have sat on the sidelines and watched/read since the begining. Just curious....About how many Michigan pinheads got in on this?

Side note, the first time I met him was about 2008ish when I was giving away an Arcade Cab. He seemed to be a nice guy with a bit more confidence than ability.

I hope all ends well.

#2882 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am not embarrased one bit.
Real pinheads would have stepped in and tried to get things back on track rather than toss on more fuel to the fire.

I like you but these statments are not reasonable side by side. What does being a real pinhead have to do with it?

#3036 4 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

I can tell you where I think some of that money went, although its just speculation.
You can't tell me over the past several years he was spendin on his own dime to travel and transport the prototype Predator Pinball to Pinball Shows. I'm sure that was looked at as a business travel expense and it came out of the Skit B till to fund these trips.

I have no idea what is the truth, but I would assume that Kevin has another job. This creates a few issues in my mind, if I had to build 250 machines.

1. Trying to have a life all while working two full time jobs.... Family, Friends, work, school, other hobbies. I would find those important things to be next to impossible to pull off with the added work of a pinball company.

2. Making enough money ouside of Skit-B withot needing to use the "profits" you plan on making from the product that has consumed all of your time. ^

In order to run a successful startup it is imperative to have adequate capital to get you through the hard times.

I hope he was able to get this far without eating up all of the money intrusted to him thus far.

14
#4399 4 years ago

"Kevin told us, “As a colleague of mine has always said, we've always had something of a ‘punk rock’ approach to pinball which has inadvertently defined us from the beginning. We never meant to be the ‘punk rockers’ of pinball

Stop playing the victim, and do not use “punk rock” in this context. There is nothing “punk Rock” about it.

#5168 4 years ago

From the wordpress page

"Play the extremely good odds that Fox (and others) will simply never find out."

I have to disagree on this point, in fact quite the opposite.

#5218 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

To add to it, I 've received two cease letters in my life. Both from Fox for hosting Simpsons and some other audio files for a .wav sound bite site I had years and years ago. I ignored them both. Then got another more threatening letter. Ignored again and never heard from them again.

Stop doing that.

#5230 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

I haven't followed much of this, but I did play the Predator prototype at Expo and thought some of the rules were pretty original.
I'm not commenting on whatever Kevin supposedly did or didn't do, as I don't know. For all I know he may have been talking to someone and being mislead himself (I'm in a naive mood ).
Anyway, there is a very simple solution for the whole matter. Actually multiple:
1. Kevin gets the license after all, produces the games, end of story.
or
2. Another pinball company picks up the Predator license, which shouldn't be expensive at all. They also license Kevin's design. Kevin hands over the remaining pre-order money (which hopefully hasn't been spent). The new manufacturer contacts those who pre-ordered and comes with a proposal to build the game at the same (or at least a reasonable) price. If more money is required then there may be some additional incentives for thsoe who pre-ordered, assuming they are going for a >250 run. Eventually the game becomes available, it may actually see some additional improvement in the mean time, and nobody loses. Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

Are you a pinball journalist?

#5319 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Better to lie and fail than not lie at all. The world is full of red tape.

I fixed it for you.

#5329 4 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

Just came across this. Somebodys idea as a joke.
grandrapids.craigslist.org link
John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

Ahhh yes, the notorious craigs list pinball troll.

#5757 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

He lives in Michigan, im sure there are people in this close by. I know I've thought about driving out there but im a long way away and im not so sure what knocking on his door will accomplish. Im giving him this last deadline to refund my money and if it doesn't happen Ill proceed with a suit.

I asked this question a few times, and at least once on pinside. So far one Mi. pinhead admitted to buying in. I suspect that those closest to the fire backed away because it was to hot.

-1
#5768 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

The only difference is fraud/scam in spirit/intent vs fraud/scam in fact/legal. Fine i can agree Kevin didn't fraud/scam people "in sprit" (instead is a naive, delusional boob) but the fact is he committed fraud due to his actions

How do we know this? It is likely a mixture of internal issues. Cryptic opinion....Because I don't know, and I'm not a Doctor.

#5772 4 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

Virtuapin is probably the only vendor out there that would turn a blind eye to the copyright violations. Hell, look at vpforums.com (owned by virtuapin). Nothing but copyright violations there.

Except, the product that most virtual pin sellers are selling is just a computer. If there are no decals on the game that violate and its up to you what is on the computer then it is a bit different. just saying.

#5909 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I think at least one of them has a hatred for Kevin that overrides everything else,

I don't think I blame anyone for having some hatred for him after finding out the truth.

Regardless, if we go back and read through the thread history no one was able to express any negative opinion fact or not without being jumped on by a different set of torch carriers.

#6273 4 years ago
Quoted from icust298:

I would be curious what amount people would sell their "possible future refunds" for and what someone would pay for the chance of the buying their position in the "possible future refund".
I know no one is going to be able to sell or buy, just would be interesting to hear what some people would buy in at and take on the risk and what some would be willing to cut their loses for.

I will give you a song and a prayer.

Seriously though, this is all very sad, and for those who suggest that being present in this thread on any level equates to pure joy, you are just wrong. Just as it was wrong to silence the doubters 3 years ago. Lets try and play nice though, Big Pinside is Watching you.

17
#6294 4 years ago

"This post was moderated and edited for Personal attack 1 minute ago. A thread eject was issued.
Unless you have concrete evidence on JPop, there is no grounds fr calling him a thief. That's how nasty rumors get started. If you have evidence, post it in the appropriate thread."

Remember that nasty rumor about Skit..... Wait, never mind. A thread eject for warning fellow pinsiders can be considered a badge of honor. Although, I agree it is best to not resort to name calling before you have proof.

#6297 4 years ago

Anyone complaining about things being said in this thread, shoud use the power button on their electronic device and be a grown up.....of course, this can go both ways......

Power button.

#6313 4 years ago

You see how he said "Check yourself" Not Check your self fool. He was able to state the truth, without name calling. It is a wise and fair debate tactic, that still accomplishes his point.

#6410 4 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

punk-rocker actually

I have been to 100's of punk rock shows/events. I have never ran into him. The title is self proclaimed. Lets not give it credit.

15
#6738 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Completely agree and I love your metaphor.

I agree with this also. The vast majority of day to day crime is solved by informants.
What great panache to be out in the open, right under the nose of a large corporation. A few more months and many of us might have had the ultimate bad boy machine in our collection.

You are ignoring the elephant in the room. Regardless of any licence, Skit-B was never going to be able to produce 250 board games, let alone 250 pinball machines.

#6790 4 years ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

You sure about that? Or are you going off the information here (which looks like it was for the 2014 show):
http://www.mipinball.com/?p=893

Yes. Notice the 2014 at the top of the page. Surely no one thinks he will be at a show? Cue the don't call me Shirley joke.

#7012 4 years ago
Quoted from PaulLang76:

It was clearly malice. If not, why stop at saving Fox's IP? If they were so concerned about licensing shouldn't they be contacting Disney, AC/DC, Metallica, etc. about all the pop bumper caps, toppers, speaker grills, etc. that use their emblems and art and even advertise them as products for those IPs.
So c'mon AG, at least be fair when you decide to administer justice on everyone's behalf. Oh wait, that's right, you probably have all of these items already installed in your machines. Mmmm, Hypocrisy...
And for those that believe that all the items I listed above are some how safe. Let us not forget the Firefly hat incident:
http://www.techhive.com/article/2044685/i-almost-got-sued-for-knitting-a-firefly-hat-the-legal-risks-of-pop-culture-fan-art.html

Welcome to Pin....Hey, first post? Interesting.

23
#7076 4 years ago

This whole mess should at the very least make everyone think twice before trying to silence or unknowingly silence people who have information and opinions that could have saved many people from disappointment

As for Ben H., he has always shown himself to be honest and intelligent, and nothing has changed.

#7080 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Especially when they sit on that information for months pulling a majority of the 'plebs' out of the chargeback timeframe

Yeah, I have read this opinion over and over, and you are entitled to it. I have a different opinion. How many people (self included) do you think held back extreamly sound advice as a direct result of the "culture" and or policy of many threads? <Retorical question.

#7123 4 years ago

Quoted from jonnyo:

The only thing I agree with you on is the smugness.
Had I been in their shoes I probably would have done exactly the same and gone through some sort of 3rd party to break it like they did with PBN. The reason is simple: if I'm wrong, for ANY reason (technicality, license info lost in giant multi-national company, lawyer just being a d***, etc) then now I potentially get sued for killing the project.
Here's the kicker: even if I'm *right* I can still get sued. That happens all the time to shut people up.
Now, why am I going to take on that risk for YOU? It's great you like pinball, but I'm not going to risk getting sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars because we have that in common, sorry. I'm not going to risk being the most hated guy on Pinside ever because I just killed a project run by this hard-working 'merican in ol' downtrodden Michigan just trying to share his love of pinball. They'll be writing country songs for him, and gangster rap for me. F that.
The signs of license trouble have been there for a long, long time. They acted on that evidence, you didn't.

And I take exception with "downtrodden" Michigan. We are not in need of sympathy.

#7124 4 years ago

^ We have some of the finest manufacturers and engineers the world has ever known. I'm not mad at you though.

#7190 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, as the story goes, the reason all the websites were scrubbed was because of a Cease & Desist, so there was some awareness by Fox. But we don't know if Kevin's game of keeping things on the down low after that would have succeeded, especially with a 2 year+ production build.

It would not have succeded. Lets pretend we live in a world where Fox does not care in the slightest what someone does with their IP....and the actors. How much money would someone need to build 250. There is a reason not all creative people run businesses.

12
#7193 4 years ago

In other pinball news..... jonnyo gets 30+ thumbs up.

#7203 4 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

production? just minor details..i have a dream! channel 11 told me I was special..im also a bad ass because I say so..yes..the other 95% is what people should have questioned.

.....and the 5%

#7205 4 years ago

The "common good" applies to food, water, shelter....Not to hobbiests trying to unveil the obvious to those who do not want to listen. I also have a problem with the term, but that is for another forum.

#7211 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

OZ-coatrack.jpg

Thats funny, I don't care who you are.

image.jpg

#7236 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

See, because the AG has refused to show themselves, and have stated that they would deny it forever, and because Whysnow repeatedly called it the Texas group (I assume he's the main source of that, when he was calling out Jared, and I don't recall any other primary source for that claim), ANYONE from Texas who has a thought on this is under suspicion, even if they deny it. Another reason I wish they would just stand by their convictions that they did the right thing and own it. The sooner the entire story gets cleared up, the better for moving on.
Seriously, people are going to be pissed that they handed it off to PBN and they sat on it for months, and people are going to be pissed about how they handled it, and some people are going to be pissed that they did anything at all. If they are such warriors for truth, they should honestly assess how they handled it, own the shit they have conviction of being right on, and apologize for anything they might, in retrospect, feel shame about. Unlike Kevin, no one is going to sue them, no one is going to harm them, they aren't in legal trouble, they will just have some people on the internet angry at them. Part of being an adult is realizing you can't make everyone happy, and when you realize you actually wronged someone, all you can do is sincerely apologize and let THEM decide if and when to forgive you.
Bottom line, more secrecy isn't helping the community.
-Stephen Silver (fake internet names are dumb.)
PS. My meaningless vote: I'm fine with them handing off their big piece of info to PBN for respectability and due diligence, as the pre-PBN article environment was very non-receptive to license claims, especially with Keven letting others vouch for it on their reputations. It's unfortunate that said due diligence took so long, partly because of misguided hope that the project could be saved, that chargeback windows closed. But I'll give Martin the benefit of the doubt for not knowing what the average chargeback window was and thinking that no amount of rushing to print would have helped people with any refund options. They owe Pinside an apology for trying to have it both ways: giving responsibility to PBN, but also smugly taunting people, "preparing" an inner circle, and pompously making themselves the center of the story at every turn. If they wanted their actions to be vindicated so badly, they should have owned it and immediately brought all their evidence forward. If they cared about it being done right because they weren't 100% sure they had the whole story, then they should have handed it off to the adults and not done the whole cloak and dagger, secret inner circle warnings bullshit to increase the theater around the final reveal. It didn't help anyone.

Quoted from Sjsilver:

See, because the AG has refused to show themselves, and have stated that they would deny it forever, and because Whysnow repeatedly called it the Texas group (I assume he's the main source of that, when he was calling out Jared, and I don't recall any other primary source for that claim), ANYONE from Texas who has a thought on this is under suspicion, even if they deny it. Another reason I wish they would just stand by their convictions that they did the right thing and own it. The sooner the entire story gets cleared up, the better for moving on.
Seriously, people are going to be pissed that they handed it off to PBN and they sat on it for months, and people are going to be pissed about how they handled it, and some people are going to be pissed that they did anything at all. If they are such warriors for truth, they should honestly assess how they handled it, own the shit they have conviction of being right on, and apologize for anything they might, in retrospect, feel shame about. Unlike Kevin, no one is going to sue them, no one is going to harm them, they aren't in legal trouble, they will just have some people on the internet angry at them. Part of being an adult is realizing you can't make everyone happy, and when you realize you actually wronged someone, all you can do is sincerely apologize and let THEM decide if and when to forgive you.
Bottom line, more secrecy isn't helping the community.
-Stephen Silver (fake internet names are dumb.)
PS. My meaningless vote: I'm fine with them handing off their big piece of info to PBN for respectability and due diligence, as the pre-PBN article environment was very non-receptive to license claims, especially with Keven letting others vouch for it on their reputations. It's unfortunate that said due diligence took so long, partly because of misguided hope that the project could be saved, that chargeback windows closed. But I'll give Martin the benefit of the doubt for not knowing what the average chargeback window was and thinking that no amount of rushing to print would have helped people with any refund options. They owe Pinside an apology for trying to have it both ways: giving responsibility to PBN, but also smugly taunting people, "preparing" an inner circle, and pompously making themselves the center of the story at every turn. If they wanted their actions to be vindicated so badly, they should have owned it and immediately brought all their evidence forward. If they cared about it being done right because they weren't 100% sure they had the whole story, then they should have handed it off to the adults and not done the whole cloak and dagger, secret inner circle warnings bullshit to increase the theater around the final reveal. It didn't help anyone.

You want someone else to blame? Blame me for not telling everyone what I thought 3 years ago. This is not an I told you so, it is an honest assessment after the fact.

#7256 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Plenty of people were stating what they thought at various points along the way. People complain about negativity on these forums, but there is also a very real "positivity policing" that exists, and some people are very skilled at using to silence criticisms and opposing points of view. Lots of people had varying pieces of the puzzle, but I firmly believe that nobody but Kevin and probably Aaron K. had the whole picture, until the PBN article landed. Hell, even the AG and Martin thought that there was a possibility that last minute scrambling could save the project right til the end.
I was in on it, I had my reservations, and got out well before the $3k demand. I was honest with my friends that were still in about what I saw, but there was enough compelling evidence on all sides to make anything plausible, until PBN.
I guess what I am saying is that more voices speaking up early on wouldn't have changed much, especially since Kevin was able to manipulate people's general value of positivity, and the willingness of others to put their necks on the line to add legitimacy to his claims. I don't begrudge anyone who looked at the sum of the evidence and claims provided, and came down on the side of believing Kevin, even to the end.
I think as long as you were decent to people in however you expressed yourself, you have nothing to apologize for.

My comment must not have translated well, or you missed a few.

How many people in my area paid for the game? I only know of 1 or 2. In the future that should speak volumes. Michigan has a huge collector base, and a lot of us know eachother at least to some extent. Pay attention to the local Pinheads opinions.

#7296 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Yeah Id say really close friends. You can tell by the staunch support of all that is the AGOCJ and downvotes of anyone who opposes.

Please step back to reality. The same reality that made it painfully obvious that this would end badly.

We are down voting the same cracks in logic that helped create this mess.

20
#7298 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

There's a whole lot of personal entitlement being thrown around in this thread. The only person that owed anyone anything was Kevin Kulek. Not the AG....Not Martin....Not Fox. I'm guessing there's a generational difference here that influences one's mindset. There's the group that grew up with everyone gets a trophy and there's the group that learned only those that put in the work get rewarded.
Bottom line, anyone here had the same opportunity to contact Fox and find out about the IP just like the AG did. Those guys did not put on some superhero suit to fight crime. They got off their ass, picked up the phone, and made a phone call. Same thing anyone else could have done to protect their interests. Don't be butthurt now and deflect blame to anyone but Kevin because you didn't do your own due diligence. The writing was on the wall a loooonnnng time...the clues were there.
And for the record I am not part of the AG and have no idea who any of them are...and don't care.

Yep.

Go back to the first page, and read. People were being accused of calling Fox to find out the truth 5 months ago, and the same people who are mad that no one told them were mad at others for trying to prove it.

The pinside has new clothes.

#7302 4 years ago

Right.....Or if someone has a problem with civil discussion they can leave the thread, like Kevin.

15
#7324 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I will definitely recommend this to Pinside officially. It's counterproductive which is why both Facebook and Disqus removed that option. People already downvoting my posts in spite

Meh. Facebook is weak, and their theory is wrong.

Many people prefer to simply down vote as apposed to a written response. The written response encourages participation. In affect Facebook gets people to debate eachother instead of click a button.

We can do both.

#7330 4 years ago

Lets just not be sissys. Or, not type dumb statements, and all will be fine.

To be fair here, I have likely been guilty of both, and I'm ok with that

#7339 4 years ago

The internet hurt my feelings mom.

10
#7344 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Stop dude. Really. My initial post was not bashing the downvoting feature because I was "bothered by people on the 'net disagreeing with you...".
This is not the first time you've twisted my words around. Like NGGecko said, let's stop with the sidetracking and that starts with you.

It read as though he was being diplomatic, not trying to be a D.

#7356 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

You have missed the point entirely. Regardless of which side of this you may be on is completely irrelevant. Neither side is going to convince the other of who is right. We have read many, many pages of this particular topic and where have we gotten? We are at the same place we began. Is it so important that someone can thump their chest and say, "Look, I was right."?
What's done is done and cannot be undone. Continuing this finger-pointing is much akin to a urinary olympics. Let's just focus the discussion squarely where it needs to be, on Kevin Kulek and ScatB. I'm all for civil discussion provided new and fresh ideas are brought to play. Rehashing and volleying the same points is rather circular, don't you think?

I have not missed your point. I disagree with your point, that is the difference.

If you do not want to read the internet, you can always choose not to. I prefer we allow people to respectfully speak their minds, as is evident by my posts.

The irony in a pinsider posting in the very thread they are reading and condeming is to much for my suspense of disbelieve to bare.

Carry on.

#7359 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

So again, how do we go after Kevin and try and get our money back and put him in jail where he belongs.

I'm willing to bet there are Pinlawyers on it. This is the last place I would try and commit a pincrime.

#7363 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Does anyone know if Kevin has an actual job?

He is a Pinball manufacturer man. Can you dig?

#7365 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Is punk rocker a job?

Yes. Google NOFX

#7412 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Nothing came up in PACER Michigan for his name (with or without poopoo ) but I'm only an armchair internet lawyer, maybe someone else can dig up some juice that I'm not finding.

He might be to busy getting all "punk rock" on the DIY tip with someone elses property to file.

"Ain't nobody got time for that"

#7513 4 years ago

Would it be possible to open a new pinside feature, "Ask Kevin"?

Do I have to read that again or could someone quote me the "I am sorry" part?

#7521 4 years ago

"Expert of Dangerous" it's not just a clever name.

#7527 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Maybe Kevin can build the pin "Idiocracy" when hes in jail.

"Go away batin"

#7656 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Not quite what you're asking, but here's Roger Sharpe saying that all pinball licenses he's negotiated cost "far less than" $100 per machine.
http://pavlovpinball.com/pinball-licencing-101-how-much-why-and-harry-potter/
If Kevin were able to negotiate like Roger (ha!) he'd have been paying something less than $25k to Fox for the whole project. Of course he'd also have had to comply with licensing requirements for the design, actually pay for the music, etc ... All a total pipe dream in Kevin's case, of course.

No offense to Rodger or anyone else in pinball. The hardest part of producing a pin is setting up and building 250 games, not getting the license, designing the game, promoting, selling, or shipping.

I doubt anyone would disagree.

-1
#7678 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

...and more

IMG951620.png

I don't care what the neysayers say. Sometimes a copy and paste from Ted is what we need.

#7688 4 years ago

Come on Jiffy. Don’t be shy.

#7712 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

add quotes
..."survived"...

The quote marks are only needed if you are wearing it in a casket

Sorry for making this my "playground" Nate - (Coast to Coast pinball)

PEN

#7767 4 years ago
Quoted from ironspider:

I knew that the math regarding labor required for 2 or 3 guys to make 250 machines just didn't work under any scenario.

Another reason why more people from our state did not give him money. Most of us have or do work in manufacturing on some level.

I really hope he pays back every cent, even if it takes him years of making payments. Even if it were all some honest mistake, I would feel so bad for what I had done that I would work as many hours and jobs to pay it back ASAP.

#7768 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Bonus garbage - and an important reminder not to preorder ... The duck I mean.

image.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Ebay. $10,000 by Samhain.

#7781 4 years ago

Stuck in the middle truth with you

#7826 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I cant tell you how good this line is!

Can you tell me?

#7831 4 years ago

Google "Middle Truth" ....Along with the new definition the first two search items already fit the term to a tee. It is actually a common thought process of those who believe truth is relative to an individuals perspective.

It is an incorrect school of thought, especially in this context.

#7840 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I think I figured out what he means by "middle truth", (although your definition is certainly more entertaining). As I said in one post, there are three sides to every story, in this case AG, Kevin and the third, being the actual truth, which lies somewhere in between or 'the middle'. I guess Kevin decided that he is going to tell us what the 'middle truth' is -- but that is not how it works, he only gets to tell his side, he does not get to tell anyone what the truth is, since we know he is 'truth challenged'.
Whether we ever get the 'middle truth' is doubtful, but the primary thing people care about right now is not the truth (although that would be nice), but the money -- show us the money!!!

Middle truth....also known as

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

Know the middle truth, and the middle truth will set you free...from your responsablity.

#7914 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

They got how many people to fork over thousands of dollars, Ya never know...

Yes, but none of those people work for Fox.

#7934 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yeah, if Kevin was a supervillain, he would have had a better plan - take 1000 pre-orders, oversell the 1000, then announce a LE version, then announce a 30th anniversary Ruby Red version, send all the proceeds to Isis so he can get his 7 virgins....

I don't think he is an evil guy. He just has serious issues that unfortunately effected his judgment, and character. A simple admission of facts, followed by apology and restitution is the only path to to fixing this. I know people want him to sit in jail....I don't know all the facts well enough to make a wise opinion on jail and or mental health help.

In my opinion regardless of the outcome, counseling of some sort would be a great idea ASAP.

#7941 4 years ago
Quoted from RonB:

Oh, he's probably getting counseling alright!

Yeah, that too. I was speaking on a mental health and moral restoration on some level. After all, Kevin is a young guy, he has a chance to one day live an honest to himself/others life. He is also an inteligent guy, regardless of his illogical/morally ambiguous behavior.

The best ending to ths drama is an awakening in the mind of Kevin.

-1
#7944 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

No, the best ending is him refunding the money that he has stolen from ~150 people. And then going back to the hole he crawled out from, never to be heard from again.

That goes without saying, (we should all be in agreement on that) and it goes hand in hand with the “awakening” Staying away from public pinball life should also go without saying.

I did not say I wanted to be his friend. He needs to figure out that he is the one to blame for his actions, and fix it.

You have read my posts right?

#7966 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Well he did mention that he will get back into pinball as he still believes in the Predator project The last article from pinballnews he said something about not ruling out that option...

Not with Pinsides help

#7979 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

That's what PM's are for...

PM sent.

#8138 4 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

So, this was a Non-Profit endeavor???

The term nonprofit is overused, misunderstood and ill defined to begin with. Spending any amount of money on anything but the games themselves is the "profit"

At any rate, no it was not Non-Profit.

#8206 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

At least someone local could understand their Michiganian dialect.
Google translate won't do it yet.

Why you be so ill?

#8243 4 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

What if the settlement comes down to:
Each unsatisfied Predator buyer and up to 3 guests can use the SkitB vacation home in Midland, MI for 1 weekend date (Saturday or Sunday) once every 3 years with unlimited access to high-end photography equipment and up to 10 partially constructed Predator pinball machines.

Have you ever been to Midland Mi.?

#8250 4 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

Two years ago, Midland Mi was the centre of the universe. How time changes everything.

I don't have anything against Midland. It has a raceway dosent it Pinchili?....Nevermind thats Milan.

#8253 4 years ago
Quoted from Pintucky:

Take me with you!!! I wanna see the rest of the world before I die. I'll buff your shoes and lay out your clothes for you.

I will take you on my guided Detroit tour, if you make it this way.

#8255 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Okay, you're missing the point here. It is CRITICAL that the court is aware that he knew he had no license to legally produce and deliver this merchandise. As such, he acquired the funds under "false pretense". Therefore, if he chooses to declare bankruptcy, the creditors can make the bankruptcy court aware of this and as a result the purchases become a "non dischargeable" debt. This is extremely important if he chooses to file for bankruptcy.
If you want your money back you need to file a civil complaint. Leave it to the Midland County Sheriff to take care of the criminal complaint.
I'm not a lawyer, but I have lots of good lawyer jokes. Let's bring 'em on!

This could be a funny OT thread. Lawyers know all the best lawyer jokes, admitting to knowing any or not. Out of respect for our "Pinlawyer" friends, I will refrain.

#8257 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Some people ask how many lawyer jokes are there? The answer is surprising because there are really only three. The rest are true stories.

That might be the best lawyer joke ever.

Tigerlaw drops the mike. No one need pick it back up.

#8269 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Don't care what people think about KISS... songs like
Detroit Rock City
Strutter
Shout it out Loud
Calling Dr Love
are sweet

Huh?

Is this the longest thread in Pinside history, or close to it?

#8279 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I believe it is third behind the EM for sale thread and the XMen Club.

HA! I like the XMEN thread a lot better. Time to resurrect the good ole XMEN Club thread.

1 month later
#9037 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm on your side Nibbles and I feel your pain, trust me. The facts will come out soon enough, not hearsay, and hopefully, again, more people will be made whole!
Plus, I'm ejected from my Jpop thread for 24 hrs. for calling him a "dick", like several hundred others haven't done the same thing. Need a place to vent.

He's a dik.

Just "checking in". I'm out.

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