(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

5 years ago

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  • 18,301 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 50 days ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#3037 4 years ago

I really hope everyone either gets their game or a full refund.

To clarify something, a for-profit corporation has shareholders. The shareholders are the owners and are entitled to the distribution of the profits of the company in proportion to the percentage of their shares of stock.

A non-profit corporation does not have shareholders. No one is entitled to the distribution of the profits of the company (basically, they are recycled into the company). Upon the dissolution of the non-profit corporation, the articles of incorporation will provide how the assets of the company are distributed, usually to some general purpose that the non-profit corporation was pursuing or some specific similar organization. A non-profit corporation is not automatically a "tax-exempt" organization.

To be a tax exempt organization, the non-profit corporation, which is organized through the State, must then apply to the Internal Revenue Service and meet the qualifications for tax exemption. The one most people are familiar with is 501(c)(3) (the applicable section of the Internal Revenue Code)- tax exempt as a "charitable" organization.

Just because a company is non-profit doesn't mean it can't make money, pay salaries, bonuses, buy and hold assets etc. it just means that after all the expenses are taken against revenue, no profits are distributed to the shareholders (because it doesn't have them). If it has not achieved tax exempt status, it would still be subject to tax on its profits, if any (usually the corporation would just buy equipment or something to avoid profits - why pay tax when you can use that money to further the company's purpose).

That all said


I don't know what they named the company (it wouldn't necessarily be Skit-B pinball, that could just be a doing business as), but I searched Michigan's business entities with the keywords pinball, Kulek and Skit-B and didn't find any registered company that I would identify as this organization. The link is above.

Just reading the posts of people who are in on the game, I really hope this works out for you.

#5575 4 years ago

Hopefully everyone gets their full money back.

The pinball manufacturers who actually produce and manufacture their machines in accordance with the law are looking at potentially $1,000,000+ in revenue unspent in the hobby. The Predator pre-order money may have otherwise been spent among the current offered NIB machines over the last 2 years, on older machines with the seller turning around and buying a NIB, or saved towards an imminent release over the next year or so. I don't think that amount (or even a portion of those sales) is insignificant to those manufacturers.

If the anonymous group did not alert Fox, then one of the other manufacturers should have. No reason for them to lose sales due to illegal competition (losing sales to someone building a better more desired legally produced pin is just business).

3 weeks later
#7685 4 years ago

If everything else he said was not truthful, why would the one truth be that the money was safely held by PayPal in a locked account?

My concern would be that:
1 - he has paid himself an annual salary that most here would object to(my understanding is that he has no other income or employment).
2 - he already paid himself his "profit" that he planned to receive on this venture
3 - he employed and paid family members for their services (again beyond what most would consider acceptable)
4- His business partners departure was over some of these issues - perhaps business partner felt he wasn't getting his fair share or profits were being watered down through payment to others
5 - money was used to travel well to many shows and events
6 - money was used to purchase the license for the second game, and pay expenses for the individuals to travel to whatever show that was.
7 - the money above was used to buy the new house.
8 - money was still being used to finance living expenses and possibly to engage an attorney or financial advisor to find a way to extract himself but still keep some of the remaining money.

Even if all of the above were true and occurred, it would be difficult to spend close to $1,000,000 but who knows.

Did anyone talk to his former business partner at the expo? Didn't the business partners wife or somebody connected to him post on this thread alluding to the reason he left (can't remember)? Remember, there was no legal entity as far as anyone has been able to discover, his business partner would generally have individual liability as much as he would.

If I had money in on the project, I would be concerned about how much has been spent and where was I in line for getting a refund. Those outside the credit card chargeback are essentially looking at sharing the losses from any spent money unless he refunds some fully and some partially or not at all

Good luck.

3 months later
#9406 4 years ago

Kevin took over $750,000 in pre-order money. He is hardly judgment proof. Even if he spent all of the money, there should be some hard assets to recover against.

More than likely he stopped paying his attorney because he wanted to, or he did not like the advice he was receiving. Refusing to pay your attorney for services and being able to are vastly different things. Hopefully, his attorney was smart enough to get a large retainer up front so he did not become another victim of Kevin.

Keep going guys. He likely is reading the posts and hoping you will all just let him keep the money. If he has $500,000 left, it would be like winning the lottery for him- house paid off, and a $30,000 a year salary for 15 years for doing nothing. Why give it back?

2 months later
#9963 4 years ago

Why does everyone assume that he is out of money? He collected hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. He didn't produce anything - even if he was a horrendous businessperson, he could not have spent all of it.

My guess is that he has spent some of it, but no where near all of it. He probably reads these and is hoping all of you give up and let him keep the money. He probably could live off that money for a long time without getting a real job.

Although not a Predator buyer, I am watching with interest and think Keith the lawyer will end up collecting on this.

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