(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

4 years ago

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  • Latest reply 4 days ago by Roostking
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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#474 4 years ago

Hi Guys!

I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed!

Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!

Speculation can now rest.

Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.

Thank you.

#481 4 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:


11166304_800.jpg 148 KB


Is that better?

#483 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Could you identify yourself for the masses kind sir...

Paul Maletich
President - VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc.

#490 4 years ago
Quoted from Jedidentist:

Can you throw in an IJ too


It's currently in production, along with PREDATORs!

3 months later
#5105 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Speaking of Aaron from fast. An interesting thing he mentioned that got looked over when things went nuclear was Aaron said kevin was trying to get money back from the cabinet guy. I have my concerns about this cabinet guy too.

The cabinet guy is in the same boat as everyone else!

To: "Greg Wells", "Mr. X.", or whatever pseudonym you'd like,

I didn't replied to your anonymous email, as I had yet to see or hear any hard facts. As of this morning, I have fully read Martin's expose and followed along with this topic. I simply cannot fathom the license being a lie, even to this day. How can someone so blatantly jeopardize 4 hobby-related businesses without any regard for their futures?!

Nonetheless, I have spoken with various individuals today, and Kevin still contends he has/had a license to produce these machines. I would now like to speak personally with a Fox representative regarding the matter. I would not be doing my own due diligence if I fail to follow up in light of all the recent developments.

As I understand it, it's not an easy task to contact them, so I ask ...

Please put me in touch with Fox, so I can get some firsthand answers to the questions I need answered. I have a lot invested in this project, and I will be exploring my own recourse in this matter.

You have my email, if you want to continue to be anonymous.

Thank you.

#5117 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

The one odd thing I find curious ... after MPE in 2014 (or 2013?) the artwork for the playfield was changed slightly (a few noticeable changes I thought?) I thought at the time that Kevin stated is was because the studio requested or demanded the changes? Was that really just a lie and they made the changes just because they wanted to?
If Kevin was EVER working with someone at Fox who reviewed their artwork (use of IP) can someone please get him to provide an ACTUAL NAME of the person? (as well as any documented agreement.)

I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.

I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.

#5429 4 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

As a supplier to Skit-B, many trusted this endorsement. Sorry, Paul, you done goofed up.

I sure did, and for that, I sincerely apologize. I was given every reason to believe it was fully licensed, as was every pre-owner and other vendor.

Kevin even let me stick my neck out there, just to get it cut off knowingly. For that, he will never be forgiven.

I'm just as pissed as every here, as I have a lot to lose over this fiasco, too.

2 months later
#9000 4 years ago

I'm not sure why the 'cabinet guy' keeps coming up. The 'cabinet guy' is a company, VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc, not some dude building cabinets in his garage. We were contracted to do a job, that's it.

Since 2013, we've started and stopped production on these cabinets 5 or 6 times, hired and trained staff FOR the job, moved into a larger facility to better handle the job, and purchased equipment and materials to finish the job. THOUSANDS of dollars were pissed away and bridges burned with suppliers for a job that never actually took place.

We will be more than happy to complete the job whenever Skit-B is ready. Until then, we've been burned just like everyone else on this project.

Thank you.

#9002 4 years ago

If they didn't have the license in order, then they wouldn't be ready.

#9038 4 years ago

Just to be clear, of course money changed hands, it was business.

Ice, being a CPA, you probably know very well how costly it is to move a business (twice, in this case, to share space the second time with his commitment falling short after the fact), staff and train, insure them, pay them, etc. It was dragged out over such a long period of time (2.5 years?). How many times did he announce we're going into production? Each time we ramped up, got ready, and then just shut it down.

In the end, no pile of money, burnt bridges, awkward conversations, and, off course, this thread.

I have not heard from Kevin in months. Not since he lied to me right up until the very end, by telling me they were still being built, just not by him, and I still had the cabinet job.

#9062 4 years ago

Look, I was lied to, just like the hundreds of "preowners" and other vendors. The only mistake here is, we all bought into it. After being strung along for over two years and starting and stopping production multiple times, it became a losing venture for us.

I came into this thing in 2012. By that time, he had a damn good story established, and no one doubted his licensing. I wanted nothing more than for people to get their machines in a VirtuaPin quality cabinet, and I, personally, worked very hard to try to make that happen.

Assume all you want, theorize all you want, we lost big on this ordeal.

#9068 4 years ago

Conveying what one believes to be true is not a lie.

3 weeks later
#9337 4 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

Just to be clear. Paul owns both virtuapin and vpforums. Virtuapin sells hardware. VPForums distributes content with copyrights. The content is "free" up to a certain number a day, but they charge for memberships that allow you to download more. In my eyes that's selling, but you could say he's getting around it with a technicality.
I just don't see Paul as the angel he claims to be when it comes to copyrights.

If you knew anything about, well, anything, you'd know I approached Gary, Roger (who took it to WMS legal), and various other IP holders, and they all support what we do. We're preserving pinball history through software simulation, and have done so for over 15 years now, as a community.

What really should be clarified is your involvement in a very similar site, hosting illegal hacks and recreations of games that are NOT on the okay list, like Metallica, for example, or any SAM system games, for that matter.

You were not only an admin at said site, you still help with development of said site, do you not?

Amazing to me is the gall you have slinging accusations at me, when what we do has been okayed, and you're the one whose ethics are questionable, at best.

You can stop the smear campaign now. Anyone paying attention can see you do nothing but follow my posts, denouncing at every available opportunity. It's clearly a personal vendetta. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you.

#9339 4 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

Should we believe you on this one too? You have a history of being full of it. You lied to me on a couple of occasions. I still have the PMs. Should I release those?

I'm not an admin on VPU, nor did I have any involvement in bringing the site up. I wrote the ledwiz configtool for myself a long time ago and hosted it on my own site for fun. After VPU came up I gave them the software, as I didn't feel like hosting it anymore. The administration of that tool was passed on as well.
I have never released anything other than the configtool, which violates no copyrights.
Once again, you're being dishonest.

I believe you are an unethical person, and I will continue to voice my opinion when the topic comes up.

And I believed Skit B had the license. We'll all have a turn being mistaken. Such is life.

#9342 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

And your posts made customers like me believe there was a license - therefore inciting us to stay on board, missing the Paypal 180-day dispute limit, and losing the full $4750. Such is life.

And for that, I've apologized. I feel horrible about it.

I hope you can understand that I was duped, like the rest of you. I had five years of really hard work establishing my company jeopardized by his deceit. I'm on the same side as you on this.

I've even offered my assistance to the investigation. That's all I really can do.

1 year later
#11001 3 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

Paul could tell us this... Hey Noah, how much did Kevin give you?
And what did you spend it all on that you couldn't give it back?

I am more than happy to discuss. After the accusations, name calling, and slanderous statements, I've been quite put off about providing any insight.

When I got involved, it wasn't a scam. At least, I didn't think it was. That was 2012, and I offered to build his cabs, because the one he had looked like SH*T. By that time, he had been to dozens of shows with it, so I assumed he had been vetted by show organizers, etc.

After getting involved, I realized the project would probably never happen, because he just didn't have everything setup to completely build them, so I introduced him to people in the industry that could help him accomplish his goals. To be totally forthcoming, he NEVER would have made them without my involvement, at least in my opinion.

We took a deposit on cabinets. That part's true. It's not even close to the amount I've seen people post here, though. We were contracted to do a job, and Kevin defaulted on our agreement. He did drop a deposit, and that deposit was lost as soon as he defaulted. He did receive a number of cabinets and many, MANY hours of our services in the R&D and prototyping stages, so I'm not sitting on a pile of money, as I've read in some posts here. It wasn't $200K or some ridiculous figure. It was in line with the job.

Once the licensing concerns came up, I drilled him for more info. He would tell stories about how Fox was approving the artwork on the playfield, what needed updating, which sound clips and video could be used, etc. I was 100% convinced he was legit, or I never would have gotten involved in the first place!

After hiring staff and setting up for production the 3 or 4 times he announced they would begin, I was losing my ASS. That's when it all fell apart. He lied to me right up until the end, when he claimed they're still going to be built, just not by him, and we'd still be building the cabinets.

I have fully cooperated with PayPal and other entities in an attempt to get people their money back. I certainly don't deserve to be in the same category as Kevin. I've worked hard for everything I have, and it's done a lot of damage to my reputation, sadly. I'm an honest guy who got involved with the wrong company.

Feel free to call me if you have any questions (248) 252-6871. I have absolutely nothing to hide. The name-calling and false accusations here have left me quite bitter. If I hadn't been wrongly accused of the things I've been accused of here, I would be happy to be more forthcoming with my experience. I'm even willing to testify on the buyers' behalf if there's ever a criminal trial.

I never took a dime from you or any of the "pre-owners". I worked hard to try to ensure everyone would get what they paid for. I definitely feel I deserve better treatment around here, as we have a lot to offer the community.

Kevin is the bad guy here, and I feel I've been persecuted simply because I'm not afraid to be a member of this community, and he's in hiding.

The whole situation sucks.

#11004 3 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

Yeah I've heard you say this before. From what I understand you thought he was "legit" because of no other reason except that he told you he was, no? VirtuaPin used to seem "legit" to me too until I found out you went ahead and took money for a project you didn't know was above board or not.
So I'll ask you again: What paperwork or online proof, or magic trick did you see that made you this "100%" convinced? You do know what "100%" means, don't you?

By your logic, there's more than a half dozen companies that are no longer legit. Marco, Pinball Life, Spooky, Back Alley, Pinball Refinery, and VirtuaPin, just to name a few, have all sold products and services to Kevin for his Predator project. They're all great companies and great guys who don't deserve the accusations. We were all trying to support boutique pinball, as pinball is our passion. None of us deserve to have our names dragged through the mud.

I really wish things had turned out differently. I was doing the job for next to nothing in the end just to help Kevin meet his BOM on $4750 per unit. There wasn't much there to work with. In the end, it's definitely COSTING me.

#11008 3 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

No, my logic only singles out the ones who blatantly used Fox's Predator I.P. without seeing a shred of proof of a licensing agreement like you did. We saw a picture of the run of cabinets you were making, and that lent a legitimacy to the project at that time because up until then, to me at least, your company seemed above that kind of thing.
And by the same logic, imo this analogy doesn't apply as there's no violation of copyright/licensing on a blank memory chip:

On thing's for sure, whether Noah is lying or not, Kevin is obviously one hell of a storyteller!

You are mistaken that we were the only company involved with products containing IP. You may want to do your research, especially before slandering anyone further.

#11020 3 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

Well, ok, if this is the way it went in this case I stand corrected-- This whole time I've thought Noah's company made and applied the artwork too. If they didn't, my apologies.

I told you I'd be forthcoming, so I will correct you ...

We DID print and apply the decals. As soon as the licensing issues came to light, we destroyed all printed materials and deleted all art files from our system. It's not something I'm proud of.

We didn't design them, though.

#11051 3 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:
Hi Guys!
I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed!
Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!
Speculation can now rest.
Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.
Thank you.

This post has a bit of a backstory.

It came at a time when we were FINALLY ready to start producing cabinets. Kevin was showing a growing concern for the project, as people were getting restless. I contacted him and asked if he'd like me to post some pics and show people progress. He asked me to hold off until some licensing issues were addressed. Of course, I asked him again about the license, and he declared everything was fine.

After another week or two, I asked him again, and he said something along the lines of, 'Go for it, everything is good with the license.'

So, I did, and I don't think there's a single regret in my six years in business larger than posting that. He threw me right under the bus. I suspect he knew full well what he was doing, but he was hoping to somehow salvage the project. Maybe his hope was to do it under the radar. I don't know. Only Kevin can answer that question for us.

I have to say, unfortunately, I trusted Kevin. We traveled a lot of road together introducing him to people and going to Expo. He shared his dad's story and many personal stories with me. I believed in the guy. I really did.

Needless to say, I'm tired of 'taking the rap' for him here.

#11054 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

It is NOT the job of show organizers to "vet" their attendees. Just want to make that clear. Anyone can buy a table or booth at a show; their presence is not any kind of endorsement from the show organizers. Assuming someone is "legit" because they've been to a few shows is just being silly and lazy.

Hey, he fooled a lot of people. Including at least one lawyer. Guess he was a smooth talker. I will say he never convinced me he was legit, but it was irrelevant because I had no interest in the theme or the game anyway.

I think people are just ASSuming y'all got more from Kevin's deposit than you delivered back to him in cabs, and they want a piece of the difference. If you spent more money than you received in deposit, Kevin owes you like he does everyone else.

I was unable to reply to this yesterday, but here's my thought ...

If you're a show organizer, and you put images of, in this case, Predator pinball on your programs and USE IT AS A DRAW to your show, you damn well better vet it. I know of at least two shows that paid for freight to get it to their shows and paid Kevin's expenses. Sounds more legit when you think of it like that, doesn't it? That's how I saw it.

#11055 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

At $4750, not everyone would have gotten their pin. You'd end up in a situation like this: http://mashable.com/2016/04/16/coolest-cooler-money/#an.hAPCU38qA
At least with JPOP there's some transparency. We can see all the prototypes, fancy hinges, rent, patent applications and generous salary and say "yeah, that's where all the money went". John wasted it PROPERLY (sad as that is to say).
Kevin got maybe 10 games worth of parts, tops. (which you know he'll build and sell under the table)
What people want to know is: What did he spend the rest on?

That's a damn good question.

I have tried running the numbers in my head, and I can't imagine he spent it all. I do know of other purchases that made me shake my head, especially when there was at least one guy who worked for Skit-B that quit his job and burned numerous professional bridges to be a part of the project on 'promises'.

I can say the artists who did Predator and EOD were paid in full, and I told Kevin it was a mistake. They should only get paid as machines shipped, but to no avail.

#11057 3 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I will never understand this "taking a salary" BS.
People who were screwed by Kevin and JPop paid their money to buy a pinball machine. After Kevin/JPop take the money, their responsibility is to deliver a pinball machine as described, whether they make a dime or lose a dime.
Did these crooks ever tell their customers that they were funding a startup and there is a chance all of their cash will do nothing more than finance a photography business or purchase an Infiniti SUV?

You forgot a ridiculously over-sized trailer to haul his new motorcycle, four wheelers, other ATVs he bought for himself and the kids, including all new riding suits for the kids. It was posted on his Facebook back when he bought all that shit. Another headshaker, as the aforementioned 'free employee' was telling me he was losing his HOUSE, because he made the choice to quit his profession for Skit-B. He shit himself when I showed him all that stuff Kevin bought.

#11058 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Michigan's homestead exemption for bankruptcy is like $39,000.
So if Kevin's principal residence equity is under $40K, the court probably won't liquidate the home.
Somewhere in this thread, someone looked up his residence and it said his wife recently bough the home for $29K

I was told $24K, so with closing costs and other fees, that's about right.

#11062 3 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

Wow. Part of me has feels for that but part of me thinks that sounds like an extremely poorly thought out decision to quit a "profession" for a longshot pinball project that he would likely, at least at first, have known wasn't legit. Hopefully he went back, that is, somewhere where he didn't burn bridges

He was a contractor who burned his referral bridge. Ouch!

I believe it was you who said Kevin must be one hell of a story teller? It's true. It's damn true.

#11066 3 years ago

Hi Scott!

The statement was "VirtuaPin used to seem "legit" to me too until I found out you went ahead and took money for a project you didn't know was above board or not."

Nothing to do with endorsements, only that we took money for the project. We certainly weren't the only ones to do that.

I realize it was a mistake, but that is indeed the power of hindsight. I regret it every day. I'm going to be a MUCH tougher sell in the future on projects like these.

#11072 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

You *built cabinets* for this clown, and thought he was legit. You expect a show promoter to do MORE homework and vetting than a supplier? Doesn't work that way. Shows always flog whomever and whatever is going to be there, and show promoters are not IP lawyers and should not be treated as such. I've seen Pacak prep for Expo, and the thought of him spending time calling various rights-holders to ensure all products mentioned are legit, is simply ridiculous.
I'm not blaming you for doing business with Kevin, but trying to slough off blame on show promoters is just wrong. You had MUCH more direct involvement with them than did any show, and you completely fell for their song and dance. Hell, maybe the show guys thought Kevin was legit because Virtuapin was doing work for them...

Um ... I think I've been more than forthcoming, and I have also accepted the responsibility for believing Kevin. No 'sloughing' here.

That being said, if you're going to USE A PROJECT AS A DRAW TO YOUR SHOW, you should at least make sure it's legit. No blame at all on show organizers. Trying to express how it only serves to lend credibility to his story.

1 week later
#11464 3 years ago

Is there any wonder why I don't post?

Kevin picked up the cabs, and that's the last I've seen them.

I didn't take ANYONE's money, guys. Kevin did. Please stop with the FALSE accusations.

Thank you.

#11467 3 years ago

As far as I can see, there is no right answer here. No matter what I say or do, someone is going to twist it, turn it, and embellish it, or call me a liar to make me look like I'VE done something wrong. I didn't.

I took a job, and the contracting company defaulted. Skit B owes you guys money. Go after them. I will absolutely help if this goes to court, and since this isn't the place for a deposition, I'll just apologize, again, for not realizing Kevin was a liar and try to recover from the damage to my reputation this whole situation has done.

I will be there for you guys (pre-owners, not trolls). Just keep me informed, Hilton.

Thank you.

#11470 3 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

A truthful answer is always the right one...

I've been absolutely honest. I just feel there's a line to be drawn on just what's appropriate/inappropriate on a pinball forum, and asking for a company's specific financials is over the line, in my opinion.

I had a nice chat with Hilton yesterday. Very enlightening. The proper people will know everything in due time.

Thank you.

2 months later
#11839 2 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Allegedly, the maker of ten VirtuaPin cabinets and the 'owner' of his fancy new CNC machine...
He seemed to disappear like a fart in the wind though when he was pressed for answers

I didn't 'disappear' anywhere. I'm currently working on behalf of the 'pre-owners' to get them their money back, and it doesn't require posting to do so.

#11840 2 years ago

One thing I'd like to add ...

The 'fancy new CNC machine' I have here retails, new, for less than 4% of our annual revenue.

I didn't need Kevin to BUY it for me. The job facilitated the need for one. I've read a lot of bullshit figures here. Who pulled $60K out of their rear, anyway?

#11843 2 years ago


#11846 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

The information I have says that Kevin paid $113,785.42 to VirtuaPin, which supposedly included 270 sets of powder coated legs that Kevin claimed were never delivered.

Not sure where you got that figure, but it's incorrect.

See why I don't post on this topic? All it does is feed more conspiracy theories.

I'm trying to help, and I'll continue to do so without posting.

Thank you.

#11848 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Not telling anyone where I get these kinds of things.
I have the supposed check numbers and check dates as well. I also have an invoice for the powder coated parts (#03112014).
I'm not claiming to know which is true, but if there were paid for parts that were never delivered, I would think the owners would want some of that back.

That's the same thing I'm doing.

I'm struggling to see how posting incorrect information is helpful to anyone.

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