Can I still put down a deposit to get the game?
20th Century Fox, a giant US corporation that has several divisions, subsidiaries, investments, products.... ummm.. you better believe I'll shut my mouth if they tell me to. God knows what they'd mold me into if I went against their word. A company that powerful can do what they want, when they want. Better not to poke the bear. If I was Mr.X, I would have kept quiet also.
Quoted from o-din:
Some of us trust people we have never met only as far as we can throw them.
True, but to the hundreds of hardcore Predator fans in the pinball world, no sh*t people would trust this kid for their chance to have their own Predator Pinball machine. I'd give my left nut for video game themed pin
Quoted from thedefog:
And herein lies the problem. People want something so badly they are willing to throw money on the table, even if the product doesn't exist. I would feel similar if a Metroid pin was announced. Sometimes you let your emotional attachment to something cloud your judgement.
Absolutely. Who knows what Kevin's true intentions were, but the best scam artists in the world know to target people's emotions. Predator for sure would be a hot seller which is maybe why he choose it? 80% of the stuff we own are useless and bought on emotions/impulse. But honestly don't think Kevin started this project to scam people. Fan of the movie/arcade technician so he just envisioned an awesome Predator game. He also just wanted to make quick coin by not paying ridiculous licensing fee's to Fox which means more profit for him. I believe he did want to make Predator for the pinheads out there that believed in him. But in the situation he's in now (being caught by Fox) he's screwed which in turn screwed everyone else.
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:
Highly unlikely IMO. Why would they care? SkitB were never the 'competition' to them.
Ever tried to pet a dog while he's eating? I'm pretty sure it's the same with the big boys JJP and Stern, don't piss on their territory lol. Obviously that's a little far-fetched but how funny would it be if it was an inside job in the industry.
Quoted from Nibbles:
Think about it. We all have this preconceived notion that the top dogs are all professional and handle things in the up-most professional manner, but behind the scenes it's like a school playground with little kids pulling each other's hairs. Man, that would be totally messed up...
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:
And get embroiled in this mess? I've already seen the flak Martin has been taking after people decided to 'shoot the messenger'. JJP or Stern probably took one look at it, laughed as they realised how much sh*t Kevin was in and moved on.
For sure JJP and Stern didn't care who Kevin was and his little Predator project. I'm sure in person Jack would say in his New Jersey accent, "Kevin o-boy, good to ya for gettin' er done". But next minute is in the bar with his team laughing it off...
Quoted from playboywillis:
A lot of folks are also forgetting that it cost $250 to get in on the waitlist, when JJP and Stern wanted the full amount up front. We got to be involved in the making of the pin for 2 years. Definitely didn't see this coming. Of course there's red flags everywhere looking back.
It's true though. Someone mentioned the "age of innocence" here. Hell yeah pinball only has good intentions for the end receiver. That means getting a game and enjoying it with family and friends. This is a totally new experience for the community and something we all have to learn from. It's sad because anyone in the future that wants to build a pinball machine from scratch from his garage will always be refereed to by the "Scam-B Case"...
Quoted from Betelgeuse:
Seriously though, we know that both Highway and Stern have licensing history with Fox. Why should they have to pay those silly fees if SkitB doesn't have to.
Well from a business stand-point, if I was one of those companies I would ask Skit-B how much they would sell the project to me. I'd also check to see what the licensing fees are and weigh my profit margins. If bottom line still looks good then screw 250 orders, hell I'd aim for 5000 orders. Without any doubt, no one can create this game without the proper license so you do bring a good point that those two companies have the connections.
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:
Pinball isn't nearly profitable enough for Fox to want to get into it, especially when the price is jacked so high the original 250 wouldn't reorder.
To be honest I have zero knowledge on how the licensing process works. All I thought was getting a couple of papers signed and that's it. You're right, definitely not a viable product for Fox as the paper work itself might be a pain in the ass, but I bet you 20 bucks that Fox rep that Mr.X was talking to drooled over the Predator pin after doing his research. It was a badass pin man...
Quoted from pinball_keefer:
Actually Jack has always talked about it in a fairly complimentary manner internally. Certainly no laughing it up in the bar or whatever. Probably why we were going to possibly manufacture EOD.
I'm led to believe Gary's/George's reaction were slightly different.
For sure Jack is a nice guy, I was just being an ass with my comment lol. I met Jack, he's totally genuine and treats you like gold. Don't know about Gary/George though.
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:
Or stole from the front of a DVD cover:
So let me get this straight doc.... he built an unlicensed game AND he stole artwork?? That's just ruthless! I'm sure the KGB is reading this right now and looking to hire the guy as we speak!
Quoted from Skins:
Speaking of Aaron from fast. An interesting thing he mentioned that got looked over when things went nuclear was Aaron said kevin was trying to get money back from the cabinet guy. I have my concerns about this cabinet guy too.
Is the cabinet guy the new "joe the plumber"?
Quoted from PinChili:
Because why? I just find it interesting that only a few months she was on Facebook talking about completely remaking (or making?) her "new studio" and was getting all new equipment. I thought that might be relevant for folks wondering where their money might have went.
I dunno man, not my style to get family members involved and also posting their personal website. But I guess if it adds a piece to the puzzle then whatever floats your boat. Ya we can make some light jokes towards the wife, but I mean there might be some enraged pinsider who might even get to the point of being violent and here's some personal information/photo provided on the website. I'd just stick it to Kevin as he was "Stan the used car salesman", not the wife :/.
Quoted from oopsallberrys:
"For those of you interested, there will be a follow-up article posted on Pinball News with the real story in a handful of days, so please keep your eyes open for that, as well.
What the hell? This just shows you that Kevin really didn't have any business sense. Why you ask?
Because if I was Kevin, I'd put together a limited edition gold release book of the "Real Skit-B Predator Story" and sell them each for $14.99 limited to 2500 copies instead of giving it to PinballNews for free! 1st 500 copies are signed by Kevin and Aaron + you get two exclusive official Skit-B koozies with your purchase.
$14.99 x 2500 = $37, 475.
He can at least take that money and start paying you guys back
Quoted from mcluvin:
He will probably at some point make out like a bandit selling the movie rights.
Man, at this point he's gotta think of business ideas to try and get out of the hole. He screwed up his first business venture, who knows, maybe he second one will be a hit? A movie could be in the works with Fox!
Quoted from gamestencils:
There's just no way to justify stealing from Fox in this case whether you see them as 'the man' or not. This project was going to unravel either way, the writing was on the wall long long ago. Here's how it should have gone in 2012:
SkitB: Hi fox! We're a couple home-brew pinball guys that have made a really cool pinball machine themed after your Predator movies as a fan project, we're super fans! We'd love to offer them to others in a limited production run if we could obtain licensing, is this possible?
The end. That's it. Everything beyond that is just bad decision making.
Who knows, that';s probably exactly what happened and the "punk side" of Kevin got the best out of him. He said, "f*** that bs" and he took the risks. He was rebellious but in the end it didn't go the way he planned.
To be honest, in business you need to take risks to succeed so this was his big risk. "SOME" Successful businessman will tell you that they all once had a lucky break from doing something shady. Those who are in business will definitely agree with me. The one's that don't make mad profits are the people running clean in life.
But definitely going against Fox and bringing the paying customers on a ride definitely takes a lot of balls and a lot of heavy metal music playing in the background...
Quoted from ccotenj:no... i run a successful business (and i am SURE i am not alone), and i do NOTHING "shady"... to imply that you have to "cheat" to become successful is simply silly...
you can succeed in business without cheating/lying/deceiving... and you can also take big risks as well... businessmen takes risks all the time, legally...
please do not conflate the "risk" of making a LEGAL decision to "take a big risk" with what kevin has done (chose to do something ILLEGAL and hoped he'd get away with it)... they aren't even remotely similar...
I never said "cheating" or "doing illegal" activity to become successful in business is the only way to go. I said "SOME" businessmen need to do shady things in the beginning to get the boat rolling. You can obviously have a successful business by opening up a franchise, and letting the customers come in, but for the guys with zero capital or investments in anything need to take risks and do some shady things. It's life and happens. Just because you have a business that worked and you didn't have to do any shady stuff is fine, but you'd be surprised who do a lot of shady stuff.
Example, I know this mega video game store here locally. I know the owner too. He went from working out of his bedroom to now having this massive store on a main street here. Huge store. You know how much shady stuff he did to make his business work? I also know 3 other examples of the same thing. Life is not as clean as people would like it to be, especially if you're starting a business. In Kevin's shoes, he literally risked everything and put it all on the line, but in the end wasn't successful. However, people do this all the time and catch big breaks. what don't you understand about that?
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:
Might be bullshit, but it's reality. If Kevin had capital to fund this project you think he would ask people for preorder deposits? Hell no. Hence the reason he had to go shady from the start (Start a Predator project without even having the license in HOPES he will eventually get it).
When he didn't get it this is when things turned illegal. As I said before, I am certain he didn't get into this project to scam people. It just turned out ugly but we'll see in a few days/week if he refunds everyone their money.
Quoted from ccotenj:
here is a quote from your original post... it does not say "some"...
"Successful businessman will tell you that they all once had a lucky break from doing something shady. Those who are in business will definitely agree with me."...
i AM in business, and i AM disagreeing with you...
and i am not alone in being clean and successful...
Ah, my bad. English can get messy around here especially with emotions up in there air.
Yes, I meant "some" successful businessmen.
Quoted from ccotenj:
nope... things didn't "turn illegal"... things WERE illegal the very day he asked for money for a product that he didn't have a license for... we've already covered this ground...
he started without a license... he collected money under the pretenses of having a license... he repeatedly assured people there was a license... it was a scam from DAY 1....
Sorry, I disagree with you that it was a scam on day 1. Everything else I do agree with you.
Why do I disagree with you? Because someone with no business sense at all, just some regular technician who would fix arcade machines and pinball machines doesn't have any clue on starting a business. I mean for crying out loud the guy didn't incorporate himself in the beginning. He just wanted to build a Predator pinball machine and hopefully make some money.
What happens? During the whole venture he probably figured out that he needs a license. So while building everything and keeping the flow going he tried to get the license from Fox and eventually failed so now he knows he has to refund everyone. But in the meantime I believe he was also thinking of a plan B, plan C, etc... Like someone mentioned here maybe his plan was to still build the machine but not using the Predator name. In the end that wouldn't work. The Time line will never be clear but I assure you that his intentions wasn't to "SCAM" people like you and others keep saying on here. This will all be coined a "SCAM" once he doesn't refund people's money as he mentioned in his recent emails and is taken to court. For the time being you can't say anything and it's a waiting game.
Quoted from ccotenj:
@nintendo... you seem to think that it is only a "scam" if the people who put money into the project do not receive money back or a machine... you are incorrect in that...
your last paragraph is dreamworld...
Perhaps it's a dreamworld, but one thing to think about is that everyone has their own opinion, their own views, their own values and beliefs and we see can clearly see them all clash in this one thread.
Quoted from ccotenj:
thing is, it's not "opinion"... nor values, nor beliefs...
unless by some miracle fox finds a signed agreement in their files (or kevin finally produces one), it was indeed a scam from day 1...
whether or not he intended to deliver machines is not relevant... and as noted before, even if he HAD delivered machines, and fox somehow never caught on, it is STILL a scam... he just would have gotten away with it... getting away with it doesn't make it any less of a scam...
I think we both know the definition of "scam", although it can vary slightly.
But what are you trying to say? That the real reason he created this project was to scam the buyers or not?
Because my whole opinion/argument is based on him "not" wanting to scam people from the beginning and doing this out of true passion and heart. I just don't see any traces of this being a pure scam from the start. Now if he never showed any pics, went to any conventions from the get go then I'd back you up on your theory. But Kevin was pretty much putting himself out there in the community (address, full name, wife, etc...). So it's not like he was "hiding".
I'm also sure some of you can actually head on over to his house as we speak, so it's not like he's hard to find.
Quoted from flynnibus:
What they are saying is he was lying about his project all along, and hence misleading people and getting them to buy into something that sold on false pretenses. Hence.. 'scam'.
That's definitely one possibility. But there's so many possibilities that no one knows who's right and who's wrong. I'm not an expert on the subject so I don't know the timeline of the events (I don't think anyone can say with a 100% certainty they do except Kevin), but it really comes down to what happened before Kevin asked for people's deposits.
At the time Kevin asked for money, was he already contacted by Fox to C&D operations? Did he know 100% at the time that he was never going to get the license? If yes than I can definitely agree with everyone that he was misleading them into buying a project that he hopefully was going to complete under the radar which = scam. But I don't know the timeline of the events and can't say 100% that he really wanted to screw the buyers. I guess I give people the benefit of the doubt by nature but if I remember correctly he still had all his youtube videos up and images on his site of the Predator machine when he was asking for pre-orders. Perhaps there was still uncertainty and he really believed he would be able to get the license at the time. Maybe someone can chime in with more knowledge than me of the timeline.
Quoted from ccotenj:
dude... for the last time... when he collected money for a licensed product that he did not have a license for, he was scamming the buyers...
"Dude", Collecting money for a licensed product that he did not have a license for is NOT scamming the buyer. It's called conducting business "illegally" and screwing Fox over, not you. Now, not refunding you the money and running to another country would definitely conclude this was all a scam for you, the buyer. But he's still living in what New Jersey or wherever he's from where he can be contacted by you, me, the police, etc... So like I said it's not like he's hiding. He's there, in the flesh, he even responded recently to a few emails. No one had the balls to call the cops because they are waiting on a few days. But you can bring him to court right now if you wanted to if you really believe this was a scam.
My argument all along was based on his intent and if he REALLY wanted to screw the community. My arguement is NOT based on him doing business illegally by not having a license. Two different things.
Quoted from lowepg:
The real question is how fast would Whysnow show up to pick up his machine...
Id be SHOCKED if he wasn't STILL trying to get his hands on one of the "partially complete" machines as we speak.
I'd love to know what the pinball price guide would value that machine :p
^^ What do you want? lol, guy didn't understand simple English and had to explain him in a different way. Isn't that what they do in grade school?
Well, this is what I told him initially that everyone has their own views. He just doesn't budge lol.
Quoted from lowepg:
Do you really care if this was a scam for the last 3 years or *ONLY* the last 2.5 years?
One cant be "partially pregnant" any more than
Kevin can be "partially a crook"
Your continued defense of this guy is inexplicable.
God damn you ask a lot of questions. Chill out, sit back, watch a movie. lol
Quoted from guyincognito:
What would you have spent the money on, had Skit-B never announced Predator? Another pin? A motorcycle? A trip to the West Indies? A Vietnam-era Gatling gun in near-mint condition?
This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hidehillary-clinton-shrug-ap.jpg 1
That Clinton pic is scary as ****!@$
Quoted from lowepg:
scroll back my friend or have you missed the fact that you have more "contributions" here than I do over the last 2 pages... mostly trying to explain how your purchase on a smart phone app somehow connects to the issue of Kevin scamming people.
Plus, I've included boobs, which in almost any context is a tie-breaker.
yss343B.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
Again man, too many questions! Just post boobie pics which is what you're good at LOL
Quoted from Wahchintonka:
Oh, and for everyone who yelling Scam! Scam!, here's some food for thought. If it was a scam, he would have been answering every question and would not have let rumors fester. The worst thing for a scam is doubt. Did he completely mis-manage and just flat out f@&$ up? Absolutely yes. Scam, no.
Dude, no point. I tried to explain my thoughts on this whole thing "NOT" being a scam but really a mismanaged project. Still yields the "victim" responses...
Quoted from robertmee:
From Webster: Scam = a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
Did Kevin deceive his buyers by claiming that Predator was licensed in an attempt to receive pre-order money. Yes he did. Did he continue during the course of the project deceive his buyers and suppliers into thinking he had a license for Predator when in fact he did not? Yes he did.
SCAM....End of Story
Right, and Webster continues to say that "A scam is a a dishonest way to make money by deceiving people".
How did Kevin make money if he's refunding everyone?
NO SCAM....End of drama.
Quoted from tamoore:
Oh. Who got a refund today?
Refund today? Who talked about getting a refund today?
From the lion's mouth:
"The sad truth of the matter is that we are forced to cancel the project and refund the money to everyone regardless if they still want a game or not. The refund process is expected to be swift and completed very soon. You all will start to see those balances reflecting in your accounts in a few short days.
Quoted from jlm33:
Let me give you a different perspective: I currently think it is a scam. But my mind would change if I receive a refund...
(still a scam to Fox, sure. But I would not feel scammed. Semantics)
People on here who didn't receive their refunds think this whole operation was a scam. That's fair to say. But I'm pretty sure Kevin will issue refunds which is why I said this was never a scam to begin with.
It's very simple, you put a deposit down for something in pre-production. If that something is never produced regardless of the reason, you simply get a refund back which I'm sure Kevin is working out right now. How is that a scam? He's also a one man show, not a giant corporation that can refund you $50,000 in a heartbeat. It's very complicated in the back end which is why I give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
Quoted from wheels:
lied to any buyer about any aspect that had an impact on whether the buyer may elect to withdraw his/her money, from the buyer's perspective, regardless if the buyer's analysis may have been incorrect about that aspect, that's a scam. Period.
I guess McDonald's are scammers as well?
Quoted from fosaisu:
Everyone on Pinside is really hoping things work out exactly as you say, but I have to wonder how you can feel so sure that Kevin will be issuing full refunds given everything that has happened here.
If you're planning to front Kevin the money to cover the gap between remaining funds and what's owed to the buyers, you'll be an instant Pinside hero! Short of that, how the hell can you be sure of anything based solely on Kevin's statements? To quote Phil Collins, "it's all been a pack of lies."
You're right actually. I can't guarantee Kevin will be smart enough to give refunds, I simply can't. This can "all be a pack of lies". No one knows. No one knows what will happen in a week or even two weeks from now. All I know is that I've learnt quickly in life that not having a positive mind frame while going through the something like this is VERY bad for your health. Been scammed before where my money was simply gone and never to be seen again. I got very sick during that time. So taking a different approach has helped so far not to go into depression or get sick.
In my mind I am giving this 2 weeks max since the formal email of Kevin stating he will issue refunds. He refunds me and then this wasn't a "scam" issue, but simply an issue of him not promising me a Predator pinball. I have my own options on how to proceed with this which has already been mentioned here. I know what needs to be done if there's no refund, but before I go down that road I'll wait it out a little longer. I waited this long, I can wait 2 more weeks.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I wish they would just come out with it and own up to it. I know some people that are much smarter than I are actively trying to detrmine whom they are and hope it all comes out at some point, just so I can better know whom, to invest in relationships and whom to avoid.
I'm sure someone on the inside is in the works of creating another wordpress site to unmask the Anonymous Group.
no... sadly that's not a real site...
Quoted from spfxted:
Right now he has to figure how much money he has on hand...how much, if any, is still in PayPal. If still in PayPal, he has to get that unfrozen. Probably just better if he had all the money and could issue checks. Still, sooner would be better...
Exactly. Hopefully his recent email was truthful in the sense that he's moving his ass to give refunds.
Quoted from Taxman:
Agreed. But this thread went too far off topic. Stupid pictures have nothing to do with refunds.
Like this one for example
Quoted from lowepg:
Oh.... I wouldn't say that.
I think there's a good chance Kevin could have some of his assets infringed upon...
^^ True, something should be brewing by now. It's definitely going to require some hard alcohol for the read
Quoted from spfxted:
...and then there are people that keep complaining about the waiting when that's all anyone can do at this moment. The Credit Card companies and/or PayPal will let someone know when there is real news about the refunds...
*Whispers to spfxted* Let the dude keep complaining about the waiting. We get to see more tits when he does!
Just checked PinballNews.com for the latest story on Kevin. The latest article is "WHOA NELLIE! NEW PICTURES".
Quoted from lowepg:
Agreed.... I was responding to a suggestion a local news story would be helpful.
All the bickering is counter-productive and plays into "Kevin's Deceive & Delay" strategy.
The ONLY issue right now is getting peoples money back.
Everything else is silliness (ie should Kevin be welcome at future events, etc, etc).
I apologize for my part is tangential conversations.... I refuse to apologize for boobs however.
You almost gave me a heart attack. Since when is posting boob pics ever silly? *insert huge a** cigar here*
Quoted from Half_Life:
Ease up there, gunslinger. Blondetall and Nibbles posted their respective opinions and now you have posted yours. Perhaps this situation hasn't touched you in a way that it has others. Put yourself in the place of those on the short end of this fiasco who stand to lose considerable money. Now, how would you feel when reading comments like that.
Not saying you and others can't voice their opinions but the "finger poke in the eye" is not necessary. At some point, a level of decorum and/or professionalism needs to take place. Dissenting opinions are fine, just use some civility.
@flynnibus - none of this is directed specifically at you. Your posts were the catalyst.
If we go back to the prehistoric ages (back when this thread was created), we see the evolution of postings. It literally went from:
Optimisim=>Pred marketing=>Typical Hate/Love arguments=>Questioning wtf is going on with Skit-B=>realizing that Kevin officially f**k** up=>boob pics=>mob against Kevin=>giving Kevin benefit of the doubt=>more boob pics=>more bashing=>frustration
Which leads to now, the =>"bold, cut-to-the-chase, straight to the point" postings by guys like flynnibus. I can appreciate that
I think Pinside needs to do what Disqus did, and that's removing "Downvoting" as a whole. Only use the "Upvote" which is more productive and does not generate hate between two users. Probably half of the arguments on Pinside happen because of downvoting. Sorry but that's the truth.
Quoted from NJGecko:
Hey all...the upvote/downvote is something we discuss amongst the mods fairly regularly. If you guys feel strongly about it, open a feature request/feedback thread about it, but let's not throw yet another sidetrack into this train wreck thread!
I think vid1900 pretty much closed that debate lol. I've read some bad advice on here and it's true, I didn't act right away due to the downvotes.
Quoted from Sjsilver:
I agree with Pen. If this thread has taught us anything, it is that positivity policing can be just as bad for a community as runaway negativity.
Like others have said, both the upvote and downvotes are useful tools in discourse. Sometimes it allows people to disagree or agree without coming in and repeating the same arguments as 70 different other people (we have enough of that already). Sometimes it is a very quick visual identifier of trolls or thoughtful commentors. Sometimes both can be abused, as factions arise to flood comments with popularity or scorn based on who wrote it, and not the content. But to go after only the downvote is to ignore the other side of the coin, and give even more power to the positivity police.
I would say that "Half" is an exaggeration, but nintendo is right that at least some arguments happen because of downvoting. From my view, the mods are pretty good at moderating things when they devolve in to silly back and forth bicker-fests (the logical conclusion to almost all "Quit downvoting me" posts), and that is a better trade-off than the complete elimination of a useful tool.
EDIT: Sorry, started hit send before I saw the request not to derail further. Feel free to downvote
Well said Sjsilver. I fell victim to tunnel vision, only seeing the "bad" of downvoting because I just saw a few "downvote" battles between members. Thanks all for making me see the good side of having it .
Quoted from ccotenj:
you missed my point...
my point is "don't sweat the downvoting".... it's merely a sign of disagreement... and that you shouldn't be bothered by people on the 'net disagreeing with you...
sure, some people piss in each others cheerios... it doesn't take long to figure out who they are, and to disregard their opinion as unimportant...
Stop dude. Really. My initial post was not bashing the downvoting feature because I was "bothered by people on the 'net disagreeing with you...".
This is not the first time you've twisted my words around. Like NGGecko said, let's stop with the sidetracking and that starts with you.
Quoted from PEN:
It read as though he was being diplomatic, not trying to be a D.
Personal attack by him, and now suggesting that I "missed his point" is not exactly diplomatic. It's not the first time he's insulting me out of the blue. Everyone else responded to my suggestion with explanations, he flat out wants to troll me.
Do I get moderator status with those 7 million points? Muuhahahahaha
Alright, back on topic. Pinballnews.com hasn't updated their page yet about a follow-up to their Skit-B Pred story. I am eagerly awaiting...
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
When Martin asked about the money ... Kevin needed to clarify for us - I have was paid x dollars and have y dollars remaining. This can be verified by these screen shots of the account. I intend to refund money in the following manner [add extensive details]. The timetable for this began dd/mm/yy and should be complete dd/mm/yy. The best way for me ensure everyone is refunded their full money is (insight provided).
Very true, he could have elaborated more on refund process in the article. Give a timetable of some sort...
Quoted from belairjoe:
love the humor in this thread..but more than likely not a joke..since most of you stay in reality most of the time I see you can not think like he does..this true..my bet is someday he will try to make another game...in his mind he has to ..this is how these people think..i know hard to believe but I have seen this kind of thing before.2 years...10 years... someday this major ham bone will make his gallant return to pinball............beware..
Well he did mention that he will get back into pinball as he still believes in the Predator project The last article from pinballnews he said something about not ruling out that option...
I bought a pinball machine off Pinside once. Seller was in the US and I had to go down to pick it up. The seller shipped it from down south near the border. I used Paypal which was directly linked to my credit card (did not use alternate method which was my bank account). This is the only way you can cover you a** online with anything. The seller was nice, but in the end the only person who cares about your protection is YOU. I personally go with VISA which has backed me up when I needed them.
Good to know Amex backs up their customers with a double warranties. It's important which credit card you use for large transactions.
Quoted from asay:
I wonder if he or his family could legally sell the prototype after all this, he will definitely need the cash and I guarantee someone would drop a lot of money on it.
I said it before, I wouldn't be surprised if he was already contacted by some collectors to buy the Predator pin he has. $30k like TigerLaw said could definitely be in the ballpark, if not more
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:
**EDIT: Damn you RobT and your 4 minute faster posting.... well I dug up the evidence at least. That counts for something **
Yeah.... I don't think that will hold much water so your theories hold little weight. Kevin himself has gone on record (to this plaintiff of all people haha) cancelling the project:
It's been one month now since he wrote that email and he still hasn't officially refunded anyone. I feel embarrassed to have given him the benefit of the doubt. Really the only thing Kevin has been doing in the past month is play Predator and peek out the window for you guys.
Quoted from captainadam_21:
Does anyone know how much money was in the account when it was frozen? Couldn't he have pulled a substantial amount out before it was frozen?
Also, is he really a flight risk? He has a wife and 3 kids. He'd have to abandon them
Unfortunately only Kevin knows how much is in Paypal. If you call in and explain the situation to an agent, they'll see his account and how much is inside, however, they can't disclose anything.
Quoted from blondetall:
I used to be one of the top 10 sellers in one of these types of companies when they were new, then once they turned into a "recruit every single person you can" pyramid scheme I bailed out quick. I went from earning free trips to Vegas, NYC, and Naples Florida to only getting my hotel paid for at training and getting emails saying "since you aren't recruiting, we are dropping your buying discount to below what new people sign up at." Screw that.
I know all about market saturation and that the average busy housewife can't run a business as well as I could with my marketing degree... but they didn't care. You'd be amazed at how hard they market and push their "sales reps" to go after new moms and lonely housewives, because they need extra spending money and/or some purpose in life. It's pretty predatory... and that's how I'm linking this back to Predator.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:
I've unfortunately seen more than my fair share of "live birth photos" from families that think it's normal to post that shit.
Some with full on vag too, which under normal circumstances really interests me, but not when it's all bloody and a kid is coming out of it.
The birth of your baby is only beautiful to you, end of story.
True. I find it's a very intimate time in ones life and should be kept as a memory, not framed on a wall or posted on facebook .
Quoted from the_one:
I assume there is not one cent left in any paypal account based on what I got noticed from paypal.
They told me my chargeback requests which have been opened from my CC company are proved, confirmed and than after the 45 days closed. So far no money on any of my accounts, neither on my CC nor on my paypal account. Due to the fact thats the similar result compared to my friend which have been told there isn't money to chargeback I guess the account is really empty.
Did you go through Paypal to file a claim only? Or did you file a claim through your CC company? Sorry, I got a little confused. If it's through paypal, no doubt they will send you that email. But if your credit card company also said they had to close the case because "there isn't money to chargeback" then this situation has really hit rock bottom . Odd that others have successfully received a chargeback.
Thanks for sharing mate. Definitely worth tackling this bs with the "promised refund" angle. I know the CC companies will ask for documents to prove it was mentioned and I don't think anyone should have an issue here.
Quoted from CrotchRotXO:
I live on the same street as Kev! He bought himself a new ferrari 458 a few months ago. His wife has a bmw m5.
He went on vacation to the bahamas and brought everybody on the steet a box of Cuban cigars each!
I thought he had won the lottery by the way he has been living over the past few years.
I think his wife has new silicon boobs now, courtesy of you guys! He has a fantastic pinball collection, He has 5 BBBs.
Who needs five big bang bars? haha! The guy is crazy! To think he used to drive a prius!
You guys made him a millionare overnight! Hes probably spent it all now! I mean the guy has some balls! He even called it The Predator.lol! Cmon!
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