Can I still put down a deposit to get the game?

20th Century Fox, a giant US corporation that has several divisions, subsidiaries, investments, products.... ummm.. you better believe I'll shut my mouth if they tell me to. God knows what they'd mold me into if I went against their word. A company that powerful can do what they want, when they want. Better not to poke the bear. If I was Mr.X, I would have kept quiet also.

On a side note, when's the next pinball expo? If JJP or Stern going to be there, someone should ask them if they'd be willing to take on the Predator project.

True, but to the hundreds of hardcore Predator fans in the pinball world, no sh*t people would trust this kid for their chance to have their own Predator Pinball machine. I'd give my left nut for video game themed pin

Absolutely. Who knows what Kevin's true intentions were, but the best scam artists in the world know to target people's emotions. Predator for sure would be a hot seller which is maybe why he choose it? 80% of the stuff we own are useless and bought on emotions/impulse. But honestly don't think Kevin started this project to scam people. Fan of the movie/arcade technician so he just envisioned an awesome Predator game. He also just wanted to make quick coin by not paying ridiculous licensing fee's to Fox which means more profit for him. I believe he did want to make Predator for the pinheads out there that believed in him. But in the situation he's in now (being caught by Fox) he's screwed which in turn screwed everyone else.

Ever tried to pet a dog while he's eating? I'm pretty sure it's the same with the big boys JJP and Stern, don't piss on their territory lol. Obviously that's a little far-fetched but how funny would it be if it was an inside job in the industry.

Think about it. We all have this preconceived notion that the top dogs are all professional and handle things in the up-most professional manner, but behind the scenes it's like a school playground with little kids pulling each other's hairs. Man, that would be totally messed up...

For sure JJP and Stern didn't care who Kevin was and his little Predator project. I'm sure in person Jack would say in his New Jersey accent, "Kevin o-boy, good to ya for gettin' er done". But next minute is in the bar with his team laughing it off...

It's true though. Someone mentioned the "age of innocence" here. Hell yeah pinball only has good intentions for the end receiver. That means getting a game and enjoying it with family and friends. This is a totally new experience for the community and something we all have to learn from. It's sad because anyone in the future that wants to build a pinball machine from scratch from his garage will always be refereed to by the "Scam-B Case"...

Well from a business stand-point, if I was one of those companies I would ask Skit-B how much they would sell the project to me. I'd also check to see what the licensing fees are and weigh my profit margins. If bottom line still looks good then screw 250 orders, hell I'd aim for 5000 orders. Without any doubt, no one can create this game without the proper license so you do bring a good point that those two companies have the connections.

^^^ LOL

To be honest I have zero knowledge on how the licensing process works. All I thought was getting a couple of papers signed and that's it. You're right, definitely not a viable product for Fox as the paper work itself might be a pain in the ass, but I bet you 20 bucks that Fox rep that Mr.X was talking to drooled over the Predator pin after doing his research. It was a badass pin man...

LOL. He's got a funny accent :p

For sure Jack is a nice guy, I was just being an ass with my comment lol. I met Jack, he's totally genuine and treats you like gold. Don't know about Gary/George though.

Ouch! I don't even know Kevin and I feel the sting from that comment lol.

So let me get this straight doc.... he built an unlicensed game AND he stole artwork?? That's just ruthless! I'm sure the KGB is reading this right now and looking to hire the guy as we speak!

Didn't she make Kevin? Isn't that considered a curse? BURRRRNNNNN j/k

Man, doesn't look good for Kevin in front of a judge:

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Ummm.... total creep factor man. Totally worthy of a down-vote...

Is the cabinet guy the new "joe the plumber"?

I dunno man, not my style to get family members involved and also posting their personal website. But I guess if it adds a piece to the puzzle then whatever floats your boat. Ya we can make some light jokes towards the wife, but I mean there might be some enraged pinsider who might even get to the point of being violent and here's some personal information/photo provided on the website. I'd just stick it to Kevin as he was "Stan the used car salesman", not the wife :/.

What the hell? This just shows you that Kevin really didn't have any business sense. Why you ask?

Because if I was Kevin, I'd put together a limited edition gold release book of the "Real Skit-B Predator Story" and sell them each for $14.99 limited to 2500 copies instead of giving it to PinballNews for free! 1st 500 copies are signed by Kevin and Aaron + you get two exclusive official Skit-B koozies with your purchase.

$14.99 x 2500 = $37, 475.

He can at least take that money and start paying you guys back

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Tell me thats not a good idea!

Man, at this point he's gotta think of business ideas to try and get out of the hole. He screwed up his first business venture, who knows, maybe he second one will be a hit? A movie could be in the works with Fox!

What would be the name of his movie?

I dunno...I keep thinking and "The Shadow" seems to be an appropriate title for the movie...

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Damn I just pissed my pants!

Who's that girl? She's beautiful

Who knows, that';s probably exactly what happened and the "punk side" of Kevin got the best out of him. He said, "f*** that bs" and he took the risks. He was rebellious but in the end it didn't go the way he planned.

To be honest, in business you need to take risks to succeed so this was his big risk. "SOME" Successful businessman will tell you that they all once had a lucky break from doing something shady. Those who are in business will definitely agree with me. The one's that don't make mad profits are the people running clean in life.

But definitely going against Fox and bringing the paying customers on a ride definitely takes a lot of balls and a lot of heavy metal music playing in the background...

Totally no

I never said "cheating" or "doing illegal" activity to become successful in business is the only way to go. I said "SOME" businessmen need to do shady things in the beginning to get the boat rolling. You can obviously have a successful business by opening up a franchise, and letting the customers come in, but for the guys with zero capital or investments in anything need to take risks and do some shady things. It's life and happens. Just because you have a business that worked and you didn't have to do any shady stuff is fine, but you'd be surprised who do a lot of shady stuff.

Example, I know this mega video game store here locally. I know the owner too. He went from working out of his bedroom to now having this massive store on a main street here. Huge store. You know how much shady stuff he did to make his business work? I also know 3 other examples of the same thing. Life is not as clean as people would like it to be, especially if you're starting a business. In Kevin's shoes, he literally risked everything and put it all on the line, but in the end wasn't successful. However, people do this all the time and catch big breaks. what don't you understand about that?

Might be bullshit, but it's reality. If Kevin had capital to fund this project you think he would ask people for preorder deposits? Hell no. Hence the reason he had to go shady from the start (Start a Predator project without even having the license in HOPES he will eventually get it).

When he didn't get it this is when things turned illegal. As I said before, I am certain he didn't get into this project to scam people. It just turned out ugly but we'll see in a few days/week if he refunds everyone their money.

Ah, my bad. English can get messy around here especially with emotions up in there air.

Yes, I meant "some" successful businessmen.

Sorry, I disagree with you that it was a scam on day 1. Everything else I do agree with you.

Why do I disagree with you? Because someone with no business sense at all, just some regular technician who would fix arcade machines and pinball machines doesn't have any clue on starting a business. I mean for crying out loud the guy didn't incorporate himself in the beginning. He just wanted to build a Predator pinball machine and hopefully make some money.

What happens? During the whole venture he probably figured out that he needs a license. So while building everything and keeping the flow going he tried to get the license from Fox and eventually failed so now he knows he has to refund everyone. But in the meantime I believe he was also thinking of a plan B, plan C, etc... Like someone mentioned here maybe his plan was to still build the machine but not using the Predator name. In the end that wouldn't work. The Time line will never be clear but I assure you that his intentions wasn't to "SCAM" people like you and others keep saying on here. This will all be coined a "SCAM" once he doesn't refund people's money as he mentioned in his recent emails and is taken to court. For the time being you can't say anything and it's a waiting game.

Perhaps it's a dreamworld, but one thing to think about is that everyone has their own opinion, their own views, their own values and beliefs and we see can clearly see them all clash in this one thread.

I can't prove that his intentions where to scam everyone who bought into Predator, but I can't also prove that his intentions where NOT to scam everyone who bought into Predator...

I think we both know the definition of "scam", although it can vary slightly.

But what are you trying to say? That the real reason he created this project was to scam the buyers or not?

Because my whole opinion/argument is based on him "not" wanting to scam people from the beginning and doing this out of true passion and heart. I just don't see any traces of this being a pure scam from the start. Now if he never showed any pics, went to any conventions from the get go then I'd back you up on your theory. But Kevin was pretty much putting himself out there in the community (address, full name, wife, etc...). So it's not like he was "hiding".

I'm also sure some of you can actually head on over to his house as we speak, so it's not like he's hard to find.

Lol, that's for sure.

That's definitely one possibility. But there's so many possibilities that no one knows who's right and who's wrong. I'm not an expert on the subject so I don't know the timeline of the events (I don't think anyone can say with a 100% certainty they do except Kevin), but it really comes down to what happened before Kevin asked for people's deposits.

At the time Kevin asked for money, was he already contacted by Fox to C&D operations? Did he know 100% at the time that he was never going to get the license? If yes than I can definitely agree with everyone that he was misleading them into buying a project that he hopefully was going to complete under the radar which = scam. But I don't know the timeline of the events and can't say 100% that he really wanted to screw the buyers. I guess I give people the benefit of the doubt by nature but if I remember correctly he still had all his youtube videos up and images on his site of the Predator machine when he was asking for pre-orders. Perhaps there was still uncertainty and he really believed he would be able to get the license at the time. Maybe someone can chime in with more knowledge than me of the timeline.

"Dude", Collecting money for a licensed product that he did not have a license for is NOT scamming the buyer. It's called conducting business "illegally" and screwing Fox over, not you. Now, not refunding you the money and running to another country would definitely conclude this was all a scam for you, the buyer. But he's still living in what New Jersey or wherever he's from where he can be contacted by you, me, the police, etc... So like I said it's not like he's hiding. He's there, in the flesh, he even responded recently to a few emails. No one had the balls to call the cops because they are waiting on a few days. But you can bring him to court right now if you wanted to if you really believe this was a scam.

My argument all along was based on his intent and if he REALLY wanted to screw the community. My arguement is NOT based on him doing business illegally by not having a license. Two different things.

I'd love to know what the pinball price guide would value that machine :p

*Edited due to complex language*. Some people can't read between the lines!

I knew you wouldn't be able to read "between the lines". Why I even bother

^^ What do you want? lol, guy didn't understand simple English and had to explain him in a different way. Isn't that what they do in grade school?

Well, this is what I told him initially that everyone has their own views. He just doesn't budge lol.

God damn you ask a lot of questions. Chill out, sit back, watch a movie. lol

That Clinton pic is scary as ****!@$

Again man, too many questions! Just post boobie pics which is what you're good at LOL

Whooa! Is that Kevin's dad in-between the boobs?

Naw, I wouldn't hit on your girlfriend.

Dude, no point. I tried to explain my thoughts on this whole thing "NOT" being a scam but really a mismanaged project. Still yields the "victim" responses...

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If you could do the work for me that would be awesome

Right, and Webster continues to say that "A scam is a a dishonest way to make money by deceiving people".

How did Kevin make money if he's refunding everyone?

NO SCAM....End of drama.

Refund today? Who talked about getting a refund today?

From the lion's mouth:

"The sad truth of the matter is that we are forced to cancel the project and refund the money to everyone regardless if they still want a game or not. The refund process is expected to be swift and completed very soon. You all will start to see those balances reflecting in your accounts in a few short days.

-Kevin"

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If you believed him enough to put down a $4750 deposit, I guess you have no choice

Pretty much what will happen if he doesn't refund everyone .

Holy sh**, I literally pissed my pants

Right, so now you're going to come up with some conspiracy theory saying that I'm Kevin right? Lol

Yup, I like making things up on my spare time.

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I can see you're definitely a role model on Pinside.

Trying to pick fights on pinside with someone isn't exactly very "model-like", hence my first comment. Stick to the subject please.

Webster anyone?

100%

People on here who didn't receive their refunds think this whole operation was a scam. That's fair to say. But I'm pretty sure Kevin will issue refunds which is why I said this was never a scam to begin with.

It's very simple, you put a deposit down for something in pre-production. If that something is never produced regardless of the reason, you simply get a refund back which I'm sure Kevin is working out right now. How is that a scam? He's also a one man show, not a giant corporation that can refund you $50,000 in a heartbeat. It's very complicated in the back end which is why I give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

I guess McDonald's are scammers as well?

You're right actually. I can't guarantee Kevin will be smart enough to give refunds, I simply can't. This can "all be a pack of lies". No one knows. No one knows what will happen in a week or even two weeks from now. All I know is that I've learnt quickly in life that not having a positive mind frame while going through the something like this is VERY bad for your health. Been scammed before where my money was simply gone and never to be seen again. I got very sick during that time. So taking a different approach has helped so far not to go into depression or get sick.

In my mind I am giving this 2 weeks max since the formal email of Kevin stating he will issue refunds. He refunds me and then this wasn't a "scam" issue, but simply an issue of him not promising me a Predator pinball. I have my own options on how to proceed with this which has already been mentioned here. I know what needs to be done if there's no refund, but before I go down that road I'll wait it out a little longer. I waited this long, I can wait 2 more weeks.

I'm sure someone on the inside is in the works of creating another wordpress site to unmask the Anonymous Group.

https://unmaskingAG.wordpress.com/

no... sadly that's not a real site...

Exactly. Hopefully his recent email was truthful in the sense that he's moving his ass to give refunds.

Like this one for example

^^ True, something should be brewing by now. It's definitely going to require some hard alcohol for the read

*Whispers to spfxted* Let the dude keep complaining about the waiting. We get to see more tits when he does!

This calls for more boobs!

Sorry . I thought the boobs had something to do with the refund

^^LOL! Yes it did!

huh?

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Just checked PinballNews.com for the latest story on Kevin. The latest article is "WHOA NELLIE! NEW PICTURES".

You almost gave me a heart attack. Since when is posting boob pics ever silly? *insert huge a** cigar here*

Who is "kaneda"? I mean I know he's a pinsider, but what's the story with the guy? His name pop's up quite often without any reason. Back story anyone?

If we go back to the prehistoric ages (back when this thread was created), we see the evolution of postings. It literally went from:

Optimisim=>Pred marketing=>Typical Hate/Love arguments=>Questioning wtf is going on with Skit-B=>realizing that Kevin officially f**k** up=>boob pics=>mob against Kevin=>giving Kevin benefit of the doubt=>more boob pics=>more bashing=>frustration

Which leads to now, the =>"bold, cut-to-the-chase, straight to the point" postings by guys like flynnibus. I can appreciate that

^^ LOL, good laugh for the morning hahaha

I'll go with Raiden on this one

I think Pinside needs to do what Disqus did, and that's removing "Downvoting" as a whole. Only use the "Upvote" which is more productive and does not generate hate between two users. Probably half of the arguments on Pinside happen because of downvoting. Sorry but that's the truth.

I will definitely recommend this to Pinside officially. It's counterproductive which is why both Facebook and Disqus removed that option. People already downvoting my posts in spite

Upvote!

Damn that's a valid point. That point alone overrides any negative/arguments that comes from it.

I think vid1900 pretty much closed that debate lol. I've read some bad advice on here and it's true, I didn't act right away due to the downvotes.

I guess your priorities are in line if you're questioning what mine are?

Well said Sjsilver. I fell victim to tunnel vision, only seeing the "bad" of downvoting because I just saw a few "downvote" battles between members. Thanks all for making me see the good side of having it .

Stop dude. Really. My initial post was not bashing the downvoting feature because I was "bothered by people on the 'net disagreeing with you...".

This is not the first time you've twisted my words around. Like NGGecko said, let's stop with the sidetracking and that starts with you.

Personal attack by him, and now suggesting that I "missed his point" is not exactly diplomatic. It's not the first time he's insulting me out of the blue. Everyone else responded to my suggestion with explanations, he flat out wants to troll me.

Do I get moderator status with those 7 million points? Muuhahahahaha

Alright, back on topic. Pinballnews.com hasn't updated their page yet about a follow-up to their Skit-B Pred story. I am eagerly awaiting...

Like the skills bro , pretty slick with PS I see

Very true, he could have elaborated more on refund process in the article. Give a timetable of some sort...

Well he did mention that he will get back into pinball as he still believes in the Predator project The last article from pinballnews he said something about not ruling out that option...

It's a little bit crazy to think that he'll do future projects (potentially continuing Predator) and not tackling the refund issue first. Insanity!

To "think" and to "do" are two different things

I bought a pinball machine off Pinside once. Seller was in the US and I had to go down to pick it up. The seller shipped it from down south near the border. I used Paypal which was directly linked to my credit card (did not use alternate method which was my bank account). This is the only way you can cover you a** online with anything. The seller was nice, but in the end the only person who cares about your protection is YOU. I personally go with VISA which has backed me up when I needed them.

Good to know Amex backs up their customers with a double warranties. It's important which credit card you use for large transactions.

I said it before, I wouldn't be surprised if he was already contacted by some collectors to buy the Predator pin he has. $30k like TigerLaw said could definitely be in the ballpark, if not more