(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

4 years ago

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  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 70 days ago by Cobra99
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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)

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#40 4 years ago

i n b 4 t h e l o c k

3 weeks later
#429 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

BTW, I want this entire pre-pay model of pinball to wither on the vine. VC is available to those who appreciate and practice generally accepted business practices.

no, not really. in fact, that is completely wrong.

and, kickstarter is a giant success for a big reason.

#433 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Not on Pinside it is. Just ask Vonnie D.
That incident pretty much stuck a knife in preorder madness and sliced off the head of VD pinball in the process. Both good for pinball.
Startup pinball makers are gonna have to find their financing and take the risks themselves from now on. Success is there for great designs. Rest will falter. That's nature; no more shortcuts.

if this is true... no need for me to try and build a new pin.
...and i've spent the last 25 years building games and game companies.

#441 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

I think calling kickstarter a "giant success" is really pushing the boundaries of of the English language. Sure, a couple of companies have successfully used it to crowd-fund licensing. For every one success story there are 10 utter failures and straight-up ripoffs. Crowd funding will go the way of the dodo bird in short order. People are just jumping on the bandwagon right now because they haven't been ripped off enough yet.
While you are looking up the words "giant" and "success", stop by the word "fad" and see what that means.

i hear the internet is just a fad too...
“The internet is just a fad” … Newsweek, Feb. 26, 1995

horseless carriages...

credit cards...

credit unions...

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
– Ken Olsen, 1977 - president, chairman, and founder of Digital Equipment Corporation.

#464 4 years ago

it's always time

#526 4 years ago

this would be great entertainment to set up a bunch of chairs (at like the Tex Pin Fest) in one of the halls, and put like 8-10 people up there, a moderator/facilitator to ask provocative questions about Predator and let the show begin. ...and of course, tell the people up there to be extreme, controversial, paranoid, fearful, supportive, argumentative, passionate, etc...

i'd pay to watch that show

#529 4 years ago

i bet we could pool a collection of dollars from the audience and pay them out to the panel at the end for like scoring $1 per zinger.
we'd need a score keeper
then present the scores at the end of the panel. think everyone would get a great laugh.

little motivation for them to be more extraverted in public than normal

1 week later
#555 4 years ago
Quoted from johngravenews:

Oh my God! That toy has the Predator logo but no TM symbol after it. Quick, check the sadnerdswholikeplastictoys forum, they must be going nuts.....

you should see what they're saying about MMR on that forum. whew...

#561 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

You have to view the website in a room lit by blacklight; then you will see Predator on the skitb website.


1 month later
#676 4 years ago

Is anyone in Austin buying a Predator?

I need to know who to make a new friend with so I can bring beer over and play when this cool game ships

1 month later
#1137 4 years ago

#1139 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Email? Guess I better get checking but from the sounds of things,..do I dare read it??!!?!

don't read it...
post it here. we'll read it for ya

#1141 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Ah but if I post it will that ruin my chances (if any) of getting further communication from Kevin? (you know it would)

it could mysteriously get PM'd to me, and i'll mysteriously PM to someone else, etc... until it gets randomly posted here by a brand new user

#1146 4 years ago

#1147 4 years ago

wonder if highway's next pin after aliens is predator?

#1150 4 years ago

2015 is going to be an interesting year...


#1247 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

...Does anyone here thing they could stop Stern from shipping WWE by making a few phone calls?
"Hey, um, is this the WWE office? Uh, does Stern have the license to make a WWE game? Oh, they do? Uh, could you like, take it away from them? I don't like wrestling."

man... if that's all it would have taken on WWE...

#1267 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

I never invest more money than I am willing to lose.
Besides, PRED theme is awesome and if there is even a small chance I'm getting one I'll stick it out.
Anxiety is saved for friends and family concerns. Sometimes work too, but other things in life are much more important.
I always respect your integrity Aurich, you're a stand up guy in my book.
Whysnow just takes a more zealot approach to his views. Gotta admire his passion, if nuthin else.

most reasonable thing i've heard someone say in a long time

#1281 4 years ago

#1289 4 years ago


#1312 4 years ago

The Butler did it !!!

...ohhh ummm.... never mind...


#1315 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

You don't think they are sending out BS emails just to F with you?


#1353 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Since I did a summary last time, I'll summarize again:
"I'm sorry yesterday's email was confusing. I wasn't trying to tell you the project is dead. I'm simply trying to leave you confused still, by making my followup email just as strangely vague as the first one you got that I'm apologizing for."
Seriously, I don't understand what the hell Kevin is doing. Either just shut up or say something, but being vague is the worst possible option, because it just keeps people stirred up and worrying without actually reassuring them.

drugs / alcohol / legal / mental / introvert / fear / other ?

that just doesn't come across as a lucid business communication at all.

#1405 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

To defend them though they are inexperienced, not incompetent. They may be able to produce these games, the issue is with their inability to understand the scope of the projects and the demand they put on themselves as soon as they take a dollar from someone.
Would be nice to see Stern become a manufacturer for projects like this. Allow people to pre order games designed by boutique designers and allow Stern to set cost, manage the money and production of these games. Stern is the only company with the manufacturing experience to help see these projects through.

yep, yep & yep

#1521 4 years ago

happy to hear good news is coming for all my amigos.

#1525 4 years ago

just `cause...


#1545 4 years ago

who wants to lay down some bets about what's going to happen in 2 weeks ?

#1683 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Here you go, the 30-second summary:
Kevin sent a note saying "there have been many recent actions by
certain parties that threaten the very existence of everything I've done to
keep this project going for the past few years"
****** that made some people nervous
Kevin also said, "no matter what, nobody is going to
get left out to dry on this one, I can promise you that."
****** that made some people less nervous
Some anonymous folks said(among other things), "SkitB does not have a valid license for the pinball and that Fox has served Kevin with a C&D which he ignored. And, an expose is forthcoming- The sky *IS* falling"
****** that made some people nervous
SpfxdTed called Kevin and passed along "The game is being made. The license is ok. Cant go into details NOW, but in 2 weeks time all will be made clear. Dont panic"
****** that made people less nervous
In between all that, I called Whysnow a boob, he called me a troll. Rinse, repeat and that is about the sum of all things.


#1895 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Pitchforks, tar & feathers.

...or at least posted cartoon pictures of those

#1897 4 years ago

I wonder if the Predator team are also not answering emails & phone calls from:
a.) parts vendors ?
b.) license owners ?
c.) subcontract manufacturers ?

"Customers" would just be one channel of entities to maintain communication with.

#1919 4 years ago

I totally forgot what we were blabbin' about

#1922 4 years ago

I have some moobs for 100

#1934 4 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

Bog of eternal stench

movie reference or thread reference ?

#1942 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Oscar better stay away from Scarlett, she does not have the head for a skinny body.

1280x720-Pom.jpg (Click image to enlarge)


#2003 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Re-theme complete.

dangerous_curves.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

holy smurf

#2041 4 years ago

just for the record...

i'm totally eating popcorn

#2097 4 years ago

Gremlins, definitely

#2158 4 years ago


#2163 4 years ago

C is for Cookie...

#2173 4 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

You guys can have Skeletor...err...Jennifer Connelly. I'll take Amy Adams. God bless the person responsible for putting together her American Hustle wardrobe.
Amy_Adams_American_Hustle_Pic_2.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
american-hustle-amy-adams-2.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

I ran into her one late night in downtown Austin.
It was over in a club/bar area on 4th street, out on the street sidewalk.
She's a little bitty person.

#2177 4 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

And if anyone watched the first season of True Detective...


don't get me started...

#2225 4 years ago

Should rename thread to Skit-Boob

#2246 4 years ago

I've always heard red heads are evil.
Is that true ?

#2256 4 years ago
Quoted from Jetzxi:

Some good stuff is coming real soon (not this weekend) but real soon and no I am not speculating......

more hot lady pix ?

#2281 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

catching up on a fee episodes of Black Sails..... some nice eye candy on that show!

especially in the last few shows when the candy was bagged together

#2282 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Mine is very nice actually.

what's that like?
my 'ol lady's meaner than hell

#2304 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Wait no longer. Peace everyone.
This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hideyUbVF.jpg (Click image to enlarge) 1

I'm clearly doing something wrong in life

#2346 4 years ago

How many days left?

#2374 4 years ago

you can't tell, but i'm an american happily saluting your avatar flag

#2376 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

If they had to change the art, that would be the most positve news I've heard.

might be duck hunting predator art

#2388 4 years ago

This is not a photoshopped pipe, and ...


#2403 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Meanwhile back at Stern.....
image.jpg (Click image to enlarge)


#2405 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

forgot what to say

those were good links !

#2447 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Would that be Photoshopped or non-Photoshopped?

Beat me to it

#2479 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

So what time is it in SkitB time?

Maybe Hawaiian time zone ?

#2501 4 years ago

it's 2:00am CST, now Wed, Mar 18, 2015. No news on this thread. Anything posted anywhere else? Maybe on PPS forum? someone's email... other?

#2579 4 years ago

Poor "nephasth"
it looks like everyone is responding/quoting him with frustration.
thanks for posting the email nephasth. It's good to be informed about the market, and things have been slow since they cancelled my stories years ago

#2673 4 years ago

I just feel bad for poor Ted taking heat for trying to help the community with getting information.
No good deed goes unpunished mi amigo

#2678 4 years ago

isn't the NFL a non-profit ?

#2767 4 years ago


#3008 4 years ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

This whole situation SUCKS, but there is no reason to vent anger towards Ted. From what I see, he was the only one to call Kevin and let everyone know what he could and could not say. For that he has to be given crap? At least he tried to provide some info to all involved. Point your anger towards to where it is deserved, not where it shouldn't.


#3085 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'm not implying anything of the sort, that sounds illegal.
I'm am just saying that if you apparently don't have your firewall set up, all your stuff is right out in the open with just the simplest of scripts.
Even megabucks Sony, could not stop 2 of it's ex-employees from stealing it's movies, emails, games and blaming it on North Korea.
Nothing can stop buyers of Kevin's Jungle Assault game from writing their own Predator code and doing a conversion. They might make it very similar to Kevin's code, he had a lot of great ideas.

you sound like an 'ol LOD guy from the 80's

#3103 4 years ago

what's your favorite color...

#3107 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

This inst aimed at you so please don't take at such.
Kevin doesn't frequent pinside as much. Seriously? Gee, I wonder why that is? Could it be he is at the precipice of costing a lot of good people a great deal. I just can't even wrap my head around the fact that he or anyone else accepts that bullshit reasoning. Seriously. Add to it that he want pinball news tell his side of the story. Unbelievable. I try to be factual and straightforward without getting doom and gloom but hol-e-hell. The writing is spray painted on the wall in neon yellow for all to see. He has retreated to his cocoon and I guess hopes it will all go away if he ignores it. He's in a corner and he's hiding because no news, some news or any news is all bad news. He doesn't have anything good to say so he chooses to say nothing. If I'm wrong keven, let me have it. Blast me for being a son of a whore. I would gladly own that if it meant good pinheads got the proof this is going to work. Prove me, prove the "haters" (ugh I hate that word) wrong. Just quit hiding.

i'll bet kevin is on pinside. just not posting.
wonder if the Mods could look at IP traffic (logged-in or non-logged-in) to see his activity history...
and share some clues about it here.

#3110 4 years ago


#3166 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

For Sale - Skit-B Predator Spot - Early Production Run

ohhh oh ohhhhh....
pick me
ME !!!!

Tron Woman Intermission (NSFW):

#3169 4 years ago

i've played Predator.
it's fun, theme is totally awesome, music, lighting & artwork are cool and it is very immersive when playing. you really get the sense you're playing pinball in a jungle and shooting at things. that's really unique.
my only criticism is the target bank in the front center of the playfield. that thing is evil.
once you figure out all shots need to happen from the tips of the flippers, then the game gets fun.
you just have to get past that part. if i had the space, i'd totally have this game. imagine how cool it would be next to an Aliens pin

#3220 4 years ago

Email is hard

#3469 4 years ago


#3479 4 years ago
Quoted from GGBGROUP:

I was thinking earlier about what JJP leadership must be thinking about this and the impact it will have to their business model and future releases.

you mean after they finish laughing over beers ?

#3487 4 years ago

sad thing is... i really-really-really want this game
and Aliens too

I'm curious how many openings there are now in the pre-order line.
and is there anyone left on that original wait list?


#3495 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Same here. PRED next to Aliens? Hello??!?! How cool is that??

it's the dream team line-up, without a doubt

#3500 4 years ago



#3623 4 years ago

"crusading against a project" ...and... "trying to get a status update on a project" are 2 different things.

i have clients that want status updates on their projects all the time. it does not mean they want to see the project fail. i also have 3rd parties that aren't the client who perform very formal-scheduled and informal ad-hoc "AUDITS" of projects just to ensure that the status provided is verifiable. This is normal business activity.

I'm going through a massive security technology audit right now by a 3rd party (a company that isn't any of the particular clients), and I so totally welcome it. Their insight, expertise, and methodology will only help make my business, the project, and the clients more valuable as a result.

#3638 4 years ago

If we (as a community, just as money-in-buyers or both) want to see Predator be a success, maybe getting some formalization in the following areas could help:
1) reach out & establish an advisory board (including people who might be considered competitors, but have very specific Subject Matter Expertise (SME) in specific areas)
2) define & fill operating model roles (fill them, even if from some volunteers from the community who have expertise in these areas)
3) establish governance, internal & external communication cadence

From observations, it appears Kevin has skills in some areas, not in others (like all of us) and is extremely time constrained. I'd recommend he move into a role that allows him to succeed, and put other people (even volunteers) into other dedicated roles where they have strengths & passion.
This project shouldn't be about Kevin's ego, it should be about getting the Predator pins built & shipped.
If this project fails, really... does anyone benefit? (i hope not)

Here's a possible role-based structure to consider to help see Predator succeed.
...just noodling...


#3702 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

What happens if he files for bankruptcy?

what if he already has ?

#3751 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I don't believe skitB was EVER knowingly using it illegally. I believe he had a license but obviously not the extent it needed to be. Mr. X brought unneeded heat for selfish reasons and with the intent to not only kill the project but to try and make sure that preorder people are the ones hurt the most.
As soon as lawyers get involved all us little guys get screwed. That means no game and no refunds just so Mr. X could claim to save pinball. He really has just been a pawn of his industry big timers that have used him to be the scape goat it appears. Mr x was not merely checking on a license. he has been working hard to create as many road blocks as possible and try to make sure all us preorder people get screwed in the end. I would say he has succeeded it appears.
As i said, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Kevin not having the needed license is wrong but Mr X contacting fox and working to ensure preorder people are left empty handed does not make it right.
Ask yourself, if he really had this info 6 months ago, why not tell the community so people could get money out before the lawyers got involved.

Kevin is not a victim.
We do not know who is sending those emails/etc. A person or many people.
We do not know if what was written in those emails is true, just guesses, or anything at all.
We have seen what happens to people who post concerning questions on Pinside about Skit-B, Kevin & the Predator pin project, which could explain why someone (or people) chose to use an anonymous email to send communications instead of posting here. right?

#3753 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

From what Mr. X has claimed it took months and months of them contacting fox before fox would even dedicate energy to examining it. Only after that repeated and persistent contact did fox actually get involved.

We do not know if any of that is true.
Even if it was, it does not make Kevin a victim.

#3760 4 years ago

someone was asking about "business entities" earlier...
Here's some info below, but there could be variances based on each state law. this is not legal or financial advice.

You can file a DBA (doing business as) in your County/Parish. It can have any "unique" name within that Count/Parish. Revenue/Costs/Margins/Taxes can reference that business DBA, but it all funnels to the individual in the end for tax filing.

You can register a business entity in any State (ie: tons of companies in other states actually file in Delaware). That business entity name can be anything "unique". (doesn't have to include Skit-B, Predator, Kevin, or other words we might know about)

You can register a business entity with the federal government (IRS) to get an EIN (employment identification number) for filing federal taxes. That can be a "unique" business entity name.

So, if looking for Skit-B business entity existence, consider trying...
a) The County the business exists within, but who knows what that business name might be.
b) The State the business exists within, but it could be registered in any State & who knows what that name is.
c) The IRS, but same issue with business name.

#3762 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Nope. No excuse! If they really had information 6 months ago of genuine license issues then they could have genuinely been heroes by saying "i contacted fox at the email or phone number, they have not issued a pinball license for Predator, i suggest you all get out now before fox brings lawsuit or mucks this up. Here is all the info call them for yourself to verify"
Instead they have purposefully obfuscated and lied to many people about the full details while still attempting to cause a lynch mob. The people puling these strings are not just simply trying to stop skitB, they are trying to make a point about ANY new pinball maker. They WANT pinheads to be hurt and left holding the bag while at the same time trying to remove themselves from the activities they have been doing. Ask yourself why they have gone about things this way...

maybe they're scaredy-cats ?
i dunno
a lot of people seem to make decisions based on fear instead of value.

#3763 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

No, it makes the preorder people the victims!

totally agree

#3769 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Nope. No excuse! If they really had information 6 months ago of genuine license issues then they could have genuinely been heroes by saying "i contacted fox at the email or phone number, they have not issued a pinball license for Predator, i suggest you all get out now before fox brings lawsuit or mucks this up. Here is all the info call them for yourself to verify"
Instead they have purposefully obfuscated and lied to many people about the full details while still attempting to cause a lynch mob. The people puling these strings are not just simply trying to stop skitB, they are trying to make a point about ANY new pinball maker. They WANT pinheads to be hurt and left holding the bag while at the same time trying to remove themselves from the activities they have been doing. Ask yourself why they have gone about things this way...

yeah... that's a sh!tty move for sure. but, wish Kevin hadn't been in that situation to begin with... if what that email says is true. which... honestly... i'm not really sure it is. I don't know, but my gut tells me Kevin probably did have a license, but it needed some changes. Maybe i'm just hoping, but it just seems coocoo to do all this without that important initial step at least being taken.

#3776 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Nope. No excuse! If they really had information 6 months ago of genuine license issues then they could have genuinely been heroes by saying "i contacted fox at the email or phone number, they have not issued a pinball license for Predator, i suggest you all get out now before fox brings lawsuit or mucks this up. Here is all the info call them for yourself to verify"
Instead they have purposefully obfuscated and lied to many people about the full details while still attempting to cause a lynch mob. The people puling these strings are not just simply trying to stop skitB, they are trying to make a point about ANY new pinball maker. They WANT pinheads to be hurt and left holding the bag while at the same time trying to remove themselves from the activities they have been doing. Ask yourself why they have gone about things this way...

here's a crazy conspiracy theory...

What if Kevin was the one sending those bizarre anonymous emails out as a distraction & an excuse for why things fell apart. (brain-grenade) hehehehehe
Since we don't know who sent them, we can't rule out Kevin/etc as the source either.
What if Kevin was secretly working with our epic friend in texas to create a PR smoke screen

We do have on record some of his past bizarre emails

#3782 4 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

I hate this, post the fucking secret email then.
Secret email, 1st grade or 2nd.
No money (Kevin), Fox, lots of money.

here it is.
didn't want to be the one who posted it, but cat's out of the bag now...


#3822 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

I came back tonight and there were over 100 new responses and Kevin wasn't one of them. Any doubt that this project has imploded should be gone. No reasonable person would let this much supposed dis-information flow without responding.

#3894 4 years ago

black sails was actually cool tonight.
lots of twists

#3903 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I'm actually digging Mrs Barlow. Shes the oldest actress on the show, but she's got an awesome "Milf-thing" going.... And awesome cleavage squeezing out of most of her costumes
Just saw the end of the episode... Enjoyed all the twists but one

hehehehe.... yuuup

#4017 4 years ago

isn't it sexist of us to say this person or group of people are "mr" X ?
can anyone say it isn't Ms XXX ?


#4180 4 years ago

no license. ever. = lies to customers. lies to community.
my heart goes out to everyone impacted. i wouldn't wish this on anyone, especially my friends here.

#4195 4 years ago

i wonder if Kevin's wife paid cash for that new house of hers ?
financial protection through "Primary Residence" safety.

#4215 4 years ago

just in case:

Predator Pinball "License Gate" Backstory
Some words from the "Anonymous Insiders"

PREDATOR PINBALL – The Complete Reveal
This page is being released as a supplemental & independent piece to accompany the Pinball News editorial, which we’re sure everybody is now aware of. Let us be clear up front: This WordPress publication is not affiliated with Pinball News, it’s opinion, or it’s editor. The following is our point of view, said in our way, based on the facts we gathered (all of which were provided to Pinball News as well), and provided here for all to read so they can finally hear the complete “behind the scenes” story – from the actual guys who broke the ground. In this format, without being under an editor or guidelines, we can say our piece in our own words, and tell OUR story.

Let’s Get Some Initial Things Out Of the Way:

Who are we?
We are indeed the “anonymous group” that many of you may have heard about the last month or so. The ones who were gently passing the complete Predator story forward via email, early, to key members of the hobby and selected Pinsiders (mainly trusted & respected Immortals, as well as Moderators, etc). Specifically, “we” are a handful of regular everyday pinballers, and most of us are everyday Pinsiders you already know.

Why are you anonymous? How dare you?
Due to who some of us are, and the positions we hold, unfortunately the gravity of the story and it’s potential outcomes forced us into anonymity. For now, anyway. With the inevitable drama that comes with the collapse of a once-adored pinball project, the focus on what matters could not be clouded or jeopardized by those who would most certainly make it all about us. This can never be a battle over motivations or biases. So we can’t allow it to become one. We’re not going to be “the guys who killed Predator” for some. Because we aren’t. Kevin Kulek killed Predator. By chopping off the ability to focus on “us” at this time, it allows the actual issue – the story we unearthed – to shine all on its own. Who we are doesn’t change the facts we ended up finding. It doesn’t validate them or invalidate them (as some may try to attempt, if we spoke as ourselves). Removing who we are from the equation keeps the facts on track, to stand on their own, and just hang there in the light. If anonymity doesn’t personally work for you, then fine. We get it. We can only provide what we know (and have) and let reality set in and take its course. That is precisely why we approached Pinball News first, at the very beginning. There could be no questioning of the story – and thus if it appears on Pinball News, that means it’s been vetted and verified, and given proper handling for counterpoint comment and defense (by Kevin himself). We, the original source, don’t matter.

But do you have “skin in the game” ?
One of us still does actually, yes. Still not refunded, and have been trying since Q4 2014. Two of us were pre-owners, but got out last year, early, successfully. The rest were never pre-owners, but were leading voices of skepticism during the height of “License-Gate” on Pinside back in late 2014.

You hate Skit-B and simply wanted to destroy the game.
We’ve heard that. We were called haters, deluded, conspiracists, sick fucks, asshats, and meddling kids (Scooby Doo, really?). To characterize our motivations in those ways may be comforting and conclusive for some… easily explaining away (in their minds) that we could only be evil-hearted, because the Predator project and Kevin Kulek could only be pure and good in contrast… Those folks would be wrong in their assessment of our motives. This issue is not about a pinball machine. It’s about a liar and horrible risky business being active in our hobby, and handling a million dollars of our money. It cannot happen again. Yes, the machine itself ends up suffering a dark fate, but a machine is made of wood and wires. People are more important. The hobby has self-cleansed itself and policed itself very well for countless years – from pointing out Craigslist scams, to warning about bad sellers, to outing dishonest members of the community. The bad gets purged. The good gets raised up. This situation is no different. Except it took way too long to reach the point of revelation. Sometimes people who appear good, pull stunts that are very very bad – and unless somebody speaks up to reveal that – the bad reigns, and has the chance of becoming an even worse catastrophe later on. Our information is frankly a little late coming out as it is. Predator could have taken a much easier fall, and Kevin had an easier out, six months ago. Had any of us known…

Why did Skit-B get singled out? Why not investigate JJP, Stern, and Heighway regarding their licenses?
Any line of questioning going in this direction is beyond ridiculous. The cause-and-effect factor is imperative to understand. Kevin ended up causing an effect, which DROVE the investigating to happen. Let’s put it this way: If Jersey Jack, Stern, or Heighway (or anybody) make their premiere production disappear without a trace, and won’t mention it by name in writing… then you had better believe raging debates will break out over them hiding the IP, and calls to confirm a license will indeed be performed again to settle the argument. Rule of thumb: Those who are truly & legally licensed, proudly flaunt and promote their product(s) in the open market at all times.

Why were you sneaking the story to only select people?
This question will likely come up, and it’s important. People will likely wonder why we just didn’t plaster Kevin’s situation far and wide, and at the very least tell the 250 pre-owners. Once you read the entire backstory below, hopefully you will get a better understanding on why we were constrained for many months on breathing a word to ANYBODY beyond ourselves and Pinball News – who in turn was also in contact with Kevin throughout this whole period. The relatively recent “leaking” to select people was a matter of seeding the eventual Pinball News story that was coming out, to certain “pillars” in the community. This included highly respected & rational Pinsiders, some Pinside moderators, some of the lawyers on Pinside, several producers directly involved with the Skit-B project, and members of the “press” (podcasters, etc). This was meant to gently “prep” strong voices in the hobby for the eventual hellstorm that was coming – so they could be armed with the facts, and mentally prepared to be rational and balanced, later in a sea of speculation and flailing. It should also be noted, the story was also forwarded to one pre-owner (the “Leading Pre-owner”) as we felt he should be prepped to lead the group – but he refused to accept a word of what he was told, and blindly kept cheerleading the project and being an apologist for every issue. We were stunned on that one. Maybe today he will finally believe what we told him – six weeks ago.

Why didn’t you just post everything to PinSide during the peak of “License-Gate” and win the argument? We could have been done with this months ago.
As you will read in the backstory below, we were basically muzzled. Plus, it took many months for things to fully unfold for Kevin behind the scenes anyway. Sure, it would have been great (but juvenile) to go back to Pinside with our findings and “win” the argument in November 2014. But, the hard reality of what we discovered was extremely sobering. It set us back in our seats for a long while. Suddenly, true reality rose above a war of words on a blog site. This was serious business. A million dollars was on the line. We caught the producer of a major pinball investment project in a very big lie. A lie that was also now known by the IP holder…who was now out to snuff Kevin… we knew Predator was doomed in November 2014, but how does one manage to roll that message out? That is why we immediately started with Pinball News, due to the gravity and responsibility of such a message to the hobby. Pinside was out of the question for something like this.

Why now? What took so long?
We sat on this shit for months. It hurt. It ached. It really did. Truly heavy hearts all around, for the 250 people with their hard earned money possibly getting trapped in this thing. Even without our information, the Predator project was unraveling on its own the last few months anyway. Pitchforks were out at varying times. Then Kevin would quell the masses with a poetic heroic email, and the pitchforks would go away. Rinse and repeat. We could only stand by as Pinball News did their research, Fox IP kept giving us updates, and the story was being built and vetted for publication. Keep in mind, Kevin has been in on the story being built at Pinball News for months. He knew we all knew everything. Kevin always kept winning reprieve by coming up with new “hope” that kept the story back… and Pinball News didn’t want to scuttle the project by creating a mass exit situation. So it took so long to publish because Kevin was given dozens of breaks, and more than enough gentlemanly olive branches. In a nutshell, Martin Ayub is a terribly nice guy. Almost to a fault. Martin knew the gravity of what Kevin pulled, and knew it had to be revealed someday… The machine itself being built or not is not relevant to the story (in our opinion). Kevin being caught in a lie, with all of its ramifications to the investors, was the story. A handful games shipping or not. Regardless, here we are. It’s all finally published. Kevin was shielded for long enough. Martin did his best, and respect must be given for the restraint and fairness he has shown, under these really shitty circumstances. This is where the meddle of a journalist is tested, and Martin proved himself having a strong spine for a long time. Certainly longer than we would have given.

OK enough. So what was this big dark story that nobody knew?
Speculations on Kevin’s problems (and public hiding of the project) were all over the place the last five months. Some were close, some were far off. One thing is for sure: “License-Gate” was completely correct at the time. Even in recent weeks, with the story seeded to some, and leaked in parts here and there, many still don’t know the complete depth of how much of a license “problem” Kevin actually had. With the Pinball News article, and regardless of Kevin’s defense, we’re going to tell you the entire background here and now. The depth of Kevin’s “problem” and the depth of his actual level of being in trouble will now be revealed from our point of view, and how it happened for us.


But First and Foremost, Let’s Just Get this Out There:

Before we get to the backstory details, underneath everything you are about to learn, and regardless of all of Kevin’s former explanations and claims (you have to let those go – they were simply not true)… with all the snippets and fractured versions of theories out there, let’s just get down to the bottom line. If there is anything everybody needs to absorb first & foremost, it’s this:

Kevin had a license that was “small” and/or “inexpensive”.
Kevin had license limitations that limited or prevented promotion.
Kevin had a license that expired.
Kevin had a license that ended up incomplete, weak, or had “issues”
Kevin dug out his “license” and discovered he “didn’t have what he thought”
Kevin had “issues with his license” that are “being addressed”.

Kevin NEVER had an actual license for ANYTHING on Predator.
At any time. From day one.
Of any scale, scope, or cost. Not a cent paid to anyone.
Of course, yes: Before he took investor money.
Knowingly. Planned that way. Simply skipped the entire process. Period.
His plan was to attempt to build 250 Predators, license-less for all IP used.
Save/keep the license money. No approval processes, complete freedom.
Play the extremely good odds that Fox (and others) will simply never find out.
Completely hide the project after selling it, to eliminate risk of ever getting caught.

Please let that sink in. Read it again if necessary. The utter worst-case scenario assumed under the “License-Gate” controversy, was actually the true case. No problems or issues… no licenses AT ALL… and to Kevin’s dismay, he DID get caught.

People assumed there would be no way possible that any pinball creator or business, especially a bro as “nice” as Kevin Kulek, would have the brass balls and/or stupidity to risk a million dollars of other peoples’ money on actually building 250 licensed-themed pinball machines, without a license, hide it all for safety, and simply PRETEND to have complete unincumbered rights to it all…

But yes. Yes. Yes, it IS possible. It just happened.

This is precisely the business acumen and risk/gambler mind of Kevin Kulek.

He simply never conceived of getting caught. That’s all. In his mind – license, meh, it’s all good. I’m just a dude in my basement. What are the chances? He may have been correct. Extremely low chances. Likely zero. But… he took everything offline as a cautionary step – which sounded alarms, and showed his hand – created License-Gate – Kevin couldn’t clearly explain it or produce compelling evidence to the contrary – and thus his hiding everything actually became his undoing.


So Where Does All This Come From?

So lets go back to the beginning, and we’ll reveal the entire backstory. You can compare this background to Kevin’s version of events. We’ll use a timeline format to make it easier:

Predator “License-Gate” is at it’s peak (at the time). Emotions are flaring. Arguments are being had. The internet had long been scrubbed by Kevin of everything showing Skit-B is producing Predator. Predator isn’t being named in private emails from Kevin. Predator is gone from Kevin’s web site (reverted back to Duck Hunt, etc). Posts and updates from Kevin have dropped to non-existant levels. Kevin is evasive on questions concerning his true rights to the assets. Friends of Kevin are stepping up to vouch for his licensing story – but they are only going on what he is telling them – nobody has seen anything. Kevin produces nothing, which would snuff any speculation instantly. So many outs, so many potential answers, but nothing is given, and all answers are the wrong answers or completely weak answers. Camps break off into loyals vs. conspiracists. It ends up that anybody not believing Kevin at his word are assholes. Anybody pressing the issue are tin-foil hatters. Kevin comes online and says “Predator” and it’s over with… the conspiracists are beaten into the laughing stock, Kevin wins over the applauding masses.

Problem is, near the end of the weeks of debate – there was a challenge. It was brought up by several people, and an extremely good suggestion… to simply end the debate once and for all, why not just contact Fox IP and find out the answer? Dozens of us were offline talking in private messages and emails for weeks about Kevin’s claims anyway. We got to talking about the Fox thing. One guy was “absolutely sure, through a friend” Kevin was lying and didn’t have anything. The rest (including us) had our opinion, but could only speculate. Time to end speculation. Let’s just settle this once and for all. We’ll come back and report our findings, regardless of what they are (that was the hope) and the hobby can be done with this crap for good. So a few of us broke away from the private chats and emails, got together as a smaller group, and went on our own mission to figure out a way to get an answer from 20th Century Fox….

First of all, getting to IP at Fox is an ORDEAL. They are completely “unpublished” and a very specific division that doesn’t take contact from the “public”. In fact, the actual division of 20th Century Fox that handles their intellectual property is a separate entity called Fox Licensing & Merchandising Corporation. Completely separate from the entertainment divisions. There is absolutely no number to Fox (at all) on the back of any Predator DVD, let alone any number getting you near FL&MC. Just so everybody knows. Be sure to watch Kevin’s interview (on video) telling the fictional story about a “cool Fox pinhead licensor”… We sensed a problem with Kevin’s story right at the beginning. We forged onward, having to email into a specific FL&MC general inbox (as dictated by a switchboard operator who said nobody can be forwarded into FL&MC on the phone). We sent a very basic email in there, requesting an email address or phone number to address our questions regarding the licensing of a consumer product…

Entire days went by. Got a response back. Basically a handler at the front lines looking for what we wanted to know. She requested we submit what we want, and she’d handle getting it to the right people. Again, everybody is shielded, and we have no contact info except her return address. We draw up the simple yes/no question about a run of Predator pinball machines, asking for a confirmation of official licensed merchandise status, and attached a picture of the game. Sent.

Many many days went by. It was certainly over a week. Definitely into November by now. We actually thought the whole thing was a dead end, and practically had given up on ever knowing. We were moving on, and didn’t care much any more. But then an email landed one day… with a very serious tone. It was from Bryce Coughlin, senior IP counsel for Fox Intellectual Property. He didn’t answer our question in his email. He wanted a phone call to speak to one of us directly, as HE had questions he needed answered. Number provided.

Called him. He ended up wanting to know all about the Predator project. How it came about, who’s manufacturing it, where are they being sold, etc. He didn’t address anything about a license on the call. It was all questions. He said he was going to go look up Predator pinball, and give us his findings. But the tone of the call, and the material asked, sounded a lot like he had no clue about Predator pinball.

A couple weeks went by. Mr. Coughlin called back. He had performed due diligence to make sure everything was searched, and he knew for sure. He stated that there was absolutely no license for Predator pinball, they haven’t heard of Skit-B Pinball, and the project is absolutely Infringement. Now there was a problem. Here we are, after asking the questions to get an answer, we got the answer, but this process also inadvertently tipped Fox IP off to the project itself. So yes, November 2014 was the first time Fox had ever heard of Predator pinball. When did Kevin launch the product and take initial deposits? Wow.

Mr. Coughlin started a process of callbacks and interviews to talk to several of us. He wanted to find out about the whole sales approach, the preorder, the deposits, the numbers, and what Kevin is saying. Mr Coughlin ended up finding all the threads on Pinside, all Kevin’s announcements and reports, videos of the game at shows on YouTube, and even the original site (before it got took down) on archive.org. In no uncertain terms, he expressed that Fox will be taking immediate action to stop Kevin. We expressed our concern for the 250 Pre-owners, and they need to know Fox is shutting things down, because they need to start requesting their refunds. We were asked to NOT tell the 250 people (or anybody) as Fox wanted complete and undisturbed access to Kevin without any warning or disturbance. That is kind of where things ended for communication from Fox at that time. We didn’t go back to Pinside. Shit just got really heavy, and as far as we were told, Predator was 100% not going to happen…yet a million dollars is sitting paid for it… Kevin is caught.

We bring the story to Pinball News. The weight of handling the information looming large. Martin Ayub accepted the challenge of handling such a message.

Also this month (found out later, in February), Kevin is served with a Cease & Desist letter. He of course doesn’t tell his Pre-owners.

Kevin is actually served “several more” letters (according to Mr. Coughlin, we weren’t told until contact in February). Yes, several.

Kevin continues to build, and release update emails that Fox is seeing on Pinside. Fox is getting pissed off. Kevin actually had the brass balls (or again, bullheaded stupidity) to continue with Predator. Knowing he’s caught. Doesn’t care. This is only speculation at this point, but we think Kevin actually believed in his mind that he was covered by some concept of some rights (non-profit, homebrew project, or something) that he’s had in his head since the beginning. That Fox has no grounds to poke at him. Just a hunch, but Kevin avoiding the license from the beginning has some roots in some belief that he’s “allowed, no problem”. We were shocked to hear of his defiance to the C&D’s. But it revealed the kind of guy everybody is dealing with here. Either delusional, or very insanely daring.

This is why it appeared, even with Kevin’s rare communications, that things were being built during these months. While in fact, Kevin was getting bombed by C&D’s and not saying a word. Now you know.

Meanwhile, Martin IS communicating with Kevin in the background, seeking a response to the internally-known situation. Looking for comment. Kevin is talking, but cryptically and vaguely. Kevin is aware of our Fox contact, our claims, and we think Martin even encouraged Kevin to make some significant decisions about coming clean about things. Kevin didn’t. At this point, the Pre-owners are still in the dark.

It’s been a couple months, and contact with Mr. Coughlin finally happens again. (This is when we learned about what Fox tried in December and January) We nearly fell over in disbelief at Kevin’s reaction. They wanted to know if Kevin had shipped any finished games yet. We told them no. Fox IP was getting pissed off, and since Kevin was refusing to stop building, we were told that they are escalating the Predator matter to next steps. Bigger steps. We still expressed a worry for the 250 Pre-owners, but were asked again (and thanked) for remaining quiet and not creating a panic. February 9th we were told “we are getting high-level signoffs to move forward, you will see action in the next 3 to 4 weeks that is very visible. You will be the first to know”.

MARCH 2015
Kevin’s “dark” emails come out. Kevin makes some weak acknowledgements in private emails to the Pre-owners that he is essentially being “attacked by outside forces” (playing the victim) but doesn’t say that it’s Fox IP. He only weakly admits to “issues with his license” (there is NO license, and he continues to lie) and we can’t believe he’s still using the cover story insinuating that he’s licensed. Kevin plays himself and the project off in a heroic light of overcoming insurmountable odds, and with typical flavor, thanks everyone to death for their ongoing commitment. He indicates forging onward, and still seems to insist Predator is getting produced. He indicates IP issues are being worked on by somebody helping him.

March 10th, another contact with Mr. Coughlin (and our last one to date) he admitted to being overwhelmed by other cases, and he’d been away from the Predator case the last many weeks. But he’d be back “tomorrow” looking at it again. (Looks like Kevin got a bit of a reprieve) We asked if Kevin or a third party was negotiating with Fox to buy a Predator license in the present, to apply to the run of these games via another producer. We were told their office had heard from nobody, haven’t heard of such a thing, and it wouldn’t be likely/possible anyway. The entire game, the last 2 years, was a case of Infringement.

Frankly, it would seem odd that an infringer who was caught, C&D’d, and being sued, would be able to simply walk up at the end and buy a license for their production. However, we think Kevin has this idea as a solution. Have somebody else (somebody clean and new) buy the license as if Predator pinball was a new product idea hatched yesterday… oh, the brilliant mind of Kevin Kulek. Always thinking ! If that is not a facepalm moment, we don’t know what is.

As Nate on the Coast2Coast Pinball podcast (Episode #147) said: Eject. It’s done. Stick a fork in it. It’s not worth fighting to build this any more. In the near future, this whole thing may actually be finally filed in a court of law. It’s time to back away, absolutely beg for mercy from Fox, and bring a conclusion to this debacle. 250 machines being built is 1000 miles away from being a priority right now.

After knowing everything that Kevin has NOT told his Pre-owners, and glossed over all the legal trouble happening behind the scenes the last 3 months, and why it happened, and why he took the project offline in the first place… it’s just been one sneaky or dishonest move after another. A complete white flag waved has been waved recently, that Skit-B self-admittedly isn’t even capable of building the run. Think about it, that’s even if a license was handed to them for free without prejudice. But Skit-B remains holding everybody’s funding. As much as there were lies exposed surrounding the licensing… people are digging deeper. Now there are (fairly new) inquiries being brought up in the hobby regarding Kevin’s claims of all deposits allegedly held in a type of “PayPal escrow” (claimed completely safe, even if he died). Plus new discussions emerging about Kevin’s “Non-Profit” claims, and alleged 501C tax status. How far down the rabbit hole did Kevin actually go? We’re fearing today’s revelations may only be the tip of the iceberg.

We’re sorry it went down this way. We’re not sorry we made the original call to check on Kevin’s claims. We are on the side of the 250 owners, and only care about their best exit. We don’t care about Kevin Kulek’s welfare any more. He made his bed. He created this mess. Insane risk like this can’t happen again in the hobby. Thank goodness this project is basically pre-production where technically little has been spent as possible. Allegedly only parts for 10 games of 250. That means 240/250 (or 96%) of the funds should still be available, right? Somehow we don’t think so… which is yet another issue Kevin must tell the truth about – and why there isn’t 96% left. Think if Kevin had been caught halfway through. What would be left then? Time for truth and transparency. Some of Kevin’s stances (his version of what happened to him) will differ. Just know that we have zero agenda or anything to gain here. Every single part of this story is correct and accurate. If you still have doubts, and you think this is all just a character attack on Kevin or some “sick fuck” sport to shut down a boutique shop… all we can say is… Wake up. Please.

#4258 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

If I were Fox I wouldn't comment on the business arrangements I had with individuals who were not a party the agreement. That is just bad business. If someone contacted FAST to ask how much hardware a company ordered from us, even if it was an attempt to "clear up rumors" or some other noble effort, I would politely decline to comment.
That aside, the license topic was put to bed in the other horrible Skit-B thread. I am friends with Kevin. I have had the terms of the agreement explained to me. They are in order. So let's drop it.
These threads are not going to weed out any big conspiracy. They are only drama.
I do think Kevin should post a "hey guys, things are fine. Busy building pinball!" message. But really, that would probably calm people down for a couple days before someone sits up the pot again.
If you don't like the way things are going, bail out. If you don't like the waiting game of a pre-order, then don't do it again. If you are stoked to support and indie pinball company in their first game, then rock on.
There are lessons learned all over the place here and I hope things improve on the communication front. This is easier for me to not stress communication because a) I don't have $ in on a Predator and b) I talk to Kevin regularly. But I do know the guy is working hard doing the best he can right now.
I am done reading these posts. They are stuck in a loop and generating nothing but ill will.
FAST Pinball

You SIR, get the whole damn sash for this BS !
Hell, I have to create a whole new category of badges for you.


#4283 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

this was TWO days ago!.... Hardly sounds like you were distraught with the fraud that Kevin had committed. It reads a helluva lot more like a plea for more damn time....
If you've known for WEEKS what he did- why wait for today to severe your business ties? So you were OK with it - right up till it became public?!


#4306 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I agree, he ended up mistakenly in the Kevin camp and in hindsight, wrongly supported him. I'm sure he was as frustrated as everybody else.
All I'm saying is Aaron is a really good dude, I don't believe there was any intentional malice or cover up on his part, maybe over zealous support at times? I don't really know because I didn't follow this thread much up until now.
What about the damage Hilton has caused? He was duped and WAY over the top with his "support" and I don't blame him either.


you're starting to sound like you're part of "team kevin" on here. please, please... don't dig yourself into this. everyone associated with kevin is getting damaged here, and could very very very likely end up in legal actions by associating themselves with him and his "ADVISORS" (ala: FastPinball). i don't want to see that happen for you.

also, i'd immediately drop the "really good dude" labels pronto... cause ya know, according to all posts about Kevin... "kevin's a really good dude" too.

#4319 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Way to go Labnip....you are a true pinball detective.

i just wanted to snap-shot that write-up in case it changes over time.

#4326 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

First of all Dude, I'll say whatever the F I want, I've never spoken to Kevin and don't worry, I can take care of myself.
You guys want to throw the lynch mob net wider, rock and roll, knock yourselves out, I'm putting my opinion out there on Aaron and I don't give F what anybody else thinks, right or wrong.

hey... i'm not thinking "lynch mob net"... i'm worried about the "legal net" for everyone working with Kevin & how you're now working yourself into the story. please say whatever you want, and never let me get in your way. just trying to help you out...

please... tell us more about your involvement with Aaron, Predator, and Skit-B... the floor is all yours.

#4349 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:


you do realize people often edit or remove content on websites right
we now have a copy here, a snapshot of it in time.
no good deed goes unpunished...

#4354 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I just did, got it? Is it clear to you yet? What are you going to do about it? What a F ing joke.

you seem very hostile about this topic.
are you going to be this hostile at TPF as well?
i'm actually concerned.

#4370 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I must've missed the "Mr. X" part of this soap opera...

code name for the anonymous email group.

#4383 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Is there any chance they will go after customers who knew he was doing this? I can certainly understand wanting it anyway you can get it vs losing $5K, but they are going to look him and his communications over with a fine toothed comb.

all of the following could get evaluated (probably more):

1. Customers
2. Vendors
3. Employees & Contractors
4. Business Advisors (formally defined & informally)
5. Business Filings
6. Communications
7. Financial uses
8. etc...

#4565 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I did not believe these emails from labnip or whomever it was. the emails contained all sorts of things that were proven false, incorrect, and also contained all sorts of personal attacks. ....

hehehe.... whatha what ?
sorry, it's not me... i'm not cool enough to be in the x-men gang
i'm still hoping it's a Ms X or a group of Ms X's.

plus... i wanted to get one of these pins some day.

#4600 4 years ago


#4630 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Frankly, I had given Kevin a bit more credit than being the total deadbeat he turned out to be. I was sure he HAD a license that either expired or was too limited and he purged the website when it expired and/or realized it was insufficient to build the pin.
I never imagined he would have been to brazenly criminal as to just make the whole thing up and bilk pinheads for $1m.

yup. same here...
not in my wildest imagination could i fathom he had zero/no license at all.

#4645 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

In all fairness...why would we? I played Predator last year at TPF....it seemed completed and ready to ship. Everything seemed so legit.... I never even thought to question the authenticity of a license.

yeah same here.
game looked cool, those front/center targets bugged me, but man what a great looking pin.
the audio, lighting, and animations were great. i actually didn't mind the artwork either.
the whole no license thing is just so far/extreme of a concept, that why would anyone even consider it, much less even think to ask about it.
i was hoping to see & play it again this year at TPF

...instead, i find myself wondering how we could have something like fund-raisers set up at each of the pin events over the next 12-18 months and see if some funds could be collected and distributed to the folks that don't get some/all of their money back. Texas Pin Fest is next weekend. That's probably too soon to organize/plan something, but would be nice if something happened. If there was like 10 events over the next year-and-a-half, and maybe someone could donate a pin or 2 to a special auction at each event. maybe each event could raise like $5k to $8k at the auction and then put those funds into a holding-pattern somewhere. Multiply that against like 10 events and folks could have $50k-80k to redistribute to the 200ish customers that may end up loosing money. Maybe bulk print some shirts and sell them, and donate profits to the fund as well? Maybe charge a door cover to one of the nearby pubs and put those proceeds into the fund. I dunno, probably a logistical nightmare... but, I just wish something good could come from the community to help out. But, at moment we don't know how much may not available for refund, so maybe fund raisers could fill the gap perfectly, or be a stretch ...just noodling...

#4653 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Wow such modesty...

#5358 4 years ago


Thanks for the advice

But, i didn't loose money on the predator pin. i wanted one, but it sold out before i could get on the list.
I was not suggesting people chip in to help me get my money back.
I was suggesting ideas to try and help others who could end up getting financially screwed in this situation.
...and was willing to contribute my own time and stuff if possible to help them.

No good deed goes unpunished

ps. your own words seem to help with this.

Quoted from Pubaw:

Hilton does not need to be treated that way true. But----Hilton has his own issues too. He creates drama where there is none to be. Fact. Check The Shadow thread. A poster asked for responses to what everyone thought it was worth. Many replied...including Hilton. Sooooooo. Hilton goes around singling out any post that signaled a higher value than what he posted. Mine included. In fact his snotty attitude to me was, "Well, why don't you go buy it then if you think it is worth that much"
Again he creates drama where there is none! I hope he and everyone else get there money back. I hope that Pinside threads allow everyone to post fairly. I hope everyone that posts does it in a manner with respect and not to create drama or be snotty. I can only hope

Quoted from Pubaw:

Whatever. It is not worth anymore of my time with you. You twisted my post up by posting an excerpt and it is totally unprofessional. Next time put my entire post up and if you can reference the other parties post I was commenting to. My post is totally valid and your in line for food sentence makes no sense at all. Have a good life.

#5367 4 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

I bet removing Predator from your Pinside games list is similar to deleting an ex girlfriends number
You just stare at it for a minute before clicking the button lol

i bet some keep the nude predator pix though.

#5446 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

I have no idea what the point of your post is. It all started with you trying to suggest to others to pay for their potential loss. Way out of line. Now posting this is just trying to argue like others here. You are looking for drama and freebies for others. Way to help out.

if you had no idea what i was posting about, then get off your (incorrect) high-horse, dad !
an apology would have been the correct answer.

again... No good deed goes unpunished.

i think this sums you up...


#5763 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

This thread needs more arguing of definitions.

how do you define "definitions" ?

#6019 4 years ago

^^ 6000 ^^


#6173 4 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

"I've sent Kev my request for a refund, even though I never gave one, just for the outside
chance, he is so disorganized/deranged, I might get it."

you beat me to it

#6450 4 years ago


#6452 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

LOL! I thought i was kicked out of this thread so i threw in some random letters and hit send to test it.

i needed to buy a 'b' for the end, so snuck it in with a hyphen

ps. there were some fun arcade games at TFP last weekend.
seemed like less than last year, but i put some good game time on them.

#6514 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

At this point, who the hell cares what is in Martin's article? What is he going to do, give Kevin's side of the story, as told by Kevin? Kevin is a pathological liar, always has, and always will be.

Kevin, either through his own experience, or from direction of others (maybe his parents), has spent a significant part of the last half year using other people to:
1. filter communications (prevents him from being accountable for HIS words), so others spread false or misleading information, then they just "apologize" ("oops... my bad") and Kevin is free & clear from their false information spread to the community.
2. redirect attention/heat to them instead of to Kevin,
3. buying time / stalling through these wait & see channels/people/deadlines,
4. delay refunds & continue to earn interest on $800k-$1m in other peoples' money (depending on where the customers' money actually exists at this point)

Looks like more filtering & redirection is coming
We'll be debating the "words used" or the "questions not asked" through a channel/intermediary, instead of communication directly from the source. uhg.

#6518 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Why bother?
ONE refund check trumps a thousand WORDS from Kevin.
He's just lied and lied.
He's duped other "seemingly" intelligent people to lie for him as well.
What possible value would you put in anything he SAYS?

can't argue with that.

#6522 4 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

This thread has turned into an American Express commercial.
At this point, I think refunds are a year away, though I do believe they will happen.

for sure.
i'm totally rethinking my paypal usage because of this

#6551 4 years ago
Quoted from GreenMeerkat:

Actually Chris Roberts, the owner and lead designer, is very heavily involved and available as he does regular podcasts answering questions on the game from the public. It's crazy how much people are spending on the game but there is definite continuous information and playable updates about it. Quite a remarkable project.

i did some playstation consulting with Chris Robert's prior game company Digital Anvil.
he built a great group of folks over there at that time.
they did have a similar space project over there that went on forever and ever and ever and...
you can probably find it with a little searching.
microsoft (the primary investor in the company) ended up scooping it all back up in the end.

#6691 4 years ago
Quoted from KingDaddy:

Bernie Madoff began with the best of intentions... Early on, when he had his first shortfall, his decision to "cook the books" was with the intent of making the money back and "straightening" everything out. He considered it a temporary setback, and likely rationalized his behavior. He never set out to be a "crook" - he fell into it, through a series of poor decisions that kept mounting until there was a point of no return.
Similarly, Kevin no doubt began with the best of intentions. And, like Madoff, at some point he realized he was in trouble. But rather than coming clean, he chose a similar path of deceit - with the false hope that things would "work out."
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

...or he is a lying crook

#6697 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'm sure there are areas of the country where $50,000 will buy you a perfectly good home.
But in Midland MI, a 2 bedroom box is $82,000 and even a trailer is $76,000.
You don't exactly want to put a family of 5 in those areas....

82000 Midland MI.jpg
76000 trailer.jpg

there ya go house hunting on the good side of the tracks

#6709 4 years ago

Found 1 in the wild today drummin up trouble


#6773 4 years ago

fonzy !!

#6793 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

But P3 is NOT taking preorder and not asking for $ 2 years in advance and I respect Gerry for that.

he also doesn't live in his mommy's basement

#6795 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

C'mon, you can't make fun of someone who is living in their mom's basement if the name of their "company" is Some Kids Living In Their Mom's Basement.


Someone needs to start a company called: Livdbt-R
Live in van down by the River


#6811 4 years ago

what if you change the process & first don't pay for it, then take it?

#6815 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

10172039_47_600_819.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

OMG... look at that hideous freckle on her cheek !!

#6819 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I am reporting this post to the authorities of Pinside. Pic says click to enlarge, but that feature didn't work as expected, dammit.

i have to hold my monitor closer to my eyes

#6822 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

10172039_47_600_819a.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

hideous freckle is still there

#6828 4 years ago

sorry for delay...
think this is that bleep's address


#6890 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Whysnow said repeatedly that he was being contacted by an unnamed "group from TX." Not sure if that's what they told him or if he drew that conclusion himself.

It's not me y'all, I swear

#6902 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Like writing PinSide instead of Pinside? . That made it at least a little easier to narrow it down.

Who who who

#6921 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

There is absolutely no way I'm even giving my opinion on that.


#6930 4 years ago

Jazzed in the beginning of thread...
...Blues through the outro.

#6991 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

I thought the AG wanted to be known as the "Snowden's" going forward?

i liked "mr X", but that implies it isn't Blondetall

#7071 4 years ago

I've always found that thinking gets in the way of me buying a pinball machine

#7075 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I wish one of these guys had ordered a Predator, prompt refunds would have been issued.

317491-the-sopranos.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

What makes you think we didn't

#7268 4 years ago

#7289 4 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Well, I'm playing at home, feeling very sorry for those caught up in this, and I'm simply recalling the path taken by the French Revolution, and how, once all the aristocrats had been taken care of, the beast that was the mob moved on to executing its own, for its existence was based on beheading, and once the beast had been born and needed to feed its own existence, then the initial cause was forgotten, and its reason detre was to behead, so the targets simply shifted so that it could continue to execute.

^ that...

#7357 4 years ago
Quoted from generica:

Without down voting, how will I be able to identify Kaneda's alt accounts?

Dude makes a good point

#7360 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

I'm willing to bet there are Pinlawyers on it. This is the last place I would try and commit a pincrime.

I'll be the pinjudge of that

#7406 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Kevin "poo poo pants" Kulek


#7536 4 years ago

just a matter of time...


#7562 4 years ago

Dear Google,

Kevin Whitney Kulek skit-b skitb is a thief and liar.

#7703 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Ever see one of those movies where everyone dies in the end, like the Departed?

like they say...

it's always darkest before it goes totally black

#7710 4 years ago

add quotes


#7926 4 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

They took the money and are making the 3rd Skit-B pinball machine...
Hits like...
3. Pre-Orders Calling!
4. Operation: Predator Pre-Order!
5. Scam!
6. Spreading The Pre-Order Disease!
7. The Mission (Is Complete!)!
8. Sister Mary Lawsuit!
9. The Kevin Lies!
10. Breaking the Silence!
11. I Don't Believe In Pre-Orders!
12. I Don't Believe In Having Full License To A Game!
13. Waiting For A Refund!
14. My Empty Paypal Account!
15. Eyes Of An Asshole!


#7983 4 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Now both sides have council this thread is getting quiet. Can the boobs come back?

ya know sh!t got real when this thread goes silent

#8009 4 years ago


#8033 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

So, if he can't pay refunds in civil court, I wonder if one could get the prototype game?

divided into 250 equal parts

#8046 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

i think he is...
i think he is correct... the chance to own the "one and only" Predator machine would be too much for some people to pass up... there are people with VERY DEEP pockets around here...

#8117 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Rainbow Health Spa in Grand Rapids hits all the right places if you like those little Asian broads.
Detroit City proper is nice if you want a taste of 1945 Berlin.


#8135 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Problem with the mail: I started my adventure by sending such a letter via certified USPS mail to K. He refused to pick it up at the post office. If you send it regular mail, he will claim he never received it. So, if you want him to get a letter you will have to have him serviced. The Midland County Sheriff's Office will do that. Cost $34.10 (fee plus mileage). The letter referenced in the above post sounds like the beginnings of a civil suit. That's small claims court. If that fails in recovering your money, then you will be able to proceed to the next step (discovery of property and forced liquidation / bankruptcy). I don't think you can bypass steps and jump to forced bankruptcy.
But hell, I hope we can just get our money back.
On another topic: Does anyone have the contact info for Kevin's attorney? Please PM if so.

further evidence... this was a SCAM

#8162 4 years ago

had to look up "consanguinity"
still trying to figure out how to pronounce it

#8189 4 years ago

did you get 1 of those special airline cards like in the movie

mine's only a junior achiever card... i've got several of those

#8193 4 years ago

i'm still Group 2

#8198 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:


i've definitely got to work on designing some new douchebag merit badges...

#8294 4 years ago

hmmm... which fox (kevin the swiper fox or fox-fox)?

Swiper ! NO SWIPING !!!


1 week later
#8460 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I know he has a lawyer so I'd be a little surprised if even he didn't show up (the lawyer). Assuming it is a default judgement I assume that would mean a 100% refund? So how does that work for folks who are last to have their civil case heard? Does Kevin need to refund people 100% until the money he has left runs out? (and thus, the last to have their case heard get screwed?)

he won't need to pay back the rest of the money, he's still building machines for people who have told him privately they are "still in" and want their pin. Between that and people who just give up, he'll get by.

#8462 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

If this is true he's bordering on insane. I was over at VirtuaPin's (Paul's) shop last week and can confirm Kevin took all of the Predator cabs (6) and has the playfields (and presumably other parts) to build at least that money. But if he does, he's an idiot for not washing his hands of this.

#8486 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I really hope he tries to build some under the radar, you think that buffoon is in deep shit right now wait till he releases a few into the wild. The man is clearly an idiot but is he really this freakin stupid?


#8496 4 years ago

or just picked up his new Predator & prepping it for the drive back home

#8506 4 years ago

He's ALIVE !!! whewwww....

#8514 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

WTF is going on here??

50+ people are still in on getting the Predator pin and have let Kevin know. They are still in production.

#8517 4 years ago

Although a madlib would be more fun...
It's a spectrum.
fill in the blanks on this:

250 # of people confirmed as preorders before bleep hit the fan.
_____ # of people on waiting list, even after bleep hit the fan.
_____ # of people who publicly stated they want out.
_____ # of those ^^ people who have changed their minds.
_____ # of people who have only privately communicated that they want out.
_____ # of people still on waiting list who reached out & said they'd still like to buy the pin.
_____ # of 250 confirmed preorders people who privately communicated they'd still like to buy the pin.
_____ # of new people who've reached out to say they'd like to buy the pin if still being made.
_____ # of cabinets that exist that can be completed.
_____ # of cabinet part sets that exist that can be completed.

what are the numbers we think we publicly know & what are the estimates for the others.

#8539 4 years ago

^^ what he said

#8548 4 years ago
Quoted from maddog14:

So, if I want information, I go to the locked thread. If I want to discuss SkitB-Predator I come here.
Got it.

maybe replace "Discussion" with "Theft" ?

...and "Kevin" with "Douchebag" ?

#8620 4 years ago
Quoted from ZippyThePinhead:

I get 2 down votes for posting the above statement...what's wrong with you guys? ...

might reflect our priorities

Quoted from ZippyThePinhead:

... You 2 are obviously single!

or long married...

#8673 4 years ago