4 pages in and what have I learnt.

A couple of people wanted refunds and now seem to have got them. For me this is good news.

Not really sure what I can take away from any of the other comments.

As a customer it would be nice to see one picture of production to cut this entire thread off at the knees

Oh my God! That toy has the Predator logo but no TM symbol after it. Quick, check the sadnerdswholikeplastictoys forum, they must be going nuts.....

Err, why does it also have an age rating of 17?

OK, I get the frustration but how many of the more vocal posters actually are still in the fully paid up camp?

Would I like more information about my machine? Of course, but it's pretty clear we're not going to get it.

Is there a danger of losing my money? At this stage I'm treating it as long gone and hoping that I'm going to be proved wrong. I've always known that this was a risk and I suspect that most of the people who actually paid weighed up this risk at the time. $5k for a brand new machine is pretty much a bargain in the UK. The most basic Pro Stern is $2500 more than that (obviously I can actually buy the Stern which is a big difference). I guess buying a new pin is always going to carry some risk. Look at the poor people who got screwed over by Bumper.

At this stage the idea of 250 people getting a refund is never going to happen. One or two people might get their money back but if a large chunk of people start ranting and raving the it'll become like a run on the bank.

I take some comfort in knowing that there is ONE fully built and working pin. Of course I'd like to have more information but one is still one more than Wayne etc managed on MM. Similarly knowing Kevin is still on the radar is also good.

Better photos would take a lot of the worry away and this is an area I think Kevin could easily improve on and silence a lot of his critics. On the other hand part of me would love to see him post a picture of stacks of cash and a beach just to wind people up

Yeah, the VAT and transport costs will bump up the price but at this stage I only have to pay them if I actually get the machine. In that scenario I'll gladly pay it with a big smile on my face (Never ever thought I'd be happy about stomping up another grand but that would be like getting a birthday present)

Somehow I doubt anyone will get a refund unless someone new signs up, just can't see there being the spare cash to refund at this stage

However, if just one new machine is actually finished and shipped I'd be willing to bet there will be a huge amount of people trying to jump on the waiting list (including several of the very vocal critics on here)

Not the best email I've ever received. A "major update" but then no real information in the actual email. Not a lot I can actually do about it though.......

I'm trying to be positive here, but let's face it the email isn't great. Without knowing what the issue is we can't make any real judgement calls. The only thing that really will kill the speculation is images of the machines actually being made - which for some reason seems to be the image that he can't actually send out.

Maybe I should just start viewing the T-shirt I got as a designer item as it's possible that it's cost me 5 grand

The problem with all of this is that this speculation could be close to the truth or a million miles away.

We're trying to read meaning into an email that frankly doesn't tell us anything really apart from Kevin's going through a hard time.

I'm hoping for Kevin and everyone else involved that he manages to get it sorted.

Err what has Pinball News really got to do with this? As someone who has had the pleasure of knowing Martin for the last few years, I really can't think of anyone less likely to post anything defamatory about any individuals or companies. He's someone who genuinely loves playing pinball and writing about it. It's a great site that supports all sorts of developments within the scene.
Whilst there may well be a very interesting story that comes out of all of this I really can't see him routing through people's dustbins to uncover their guilty little secrets.

I know I'm out of step with most people here but ironically I'd actually would have preferred to have seen a decent photoshopped game rather than the hand drawn art. The backglass and playfield never really looked right together.
Good photoshop artwork can look great. Look at how The Hobbit playfield looks now. Sadly Stern never seem to have mastered it.....

Just asked for a refund but not convinced I'll get it. I'd be happy staying in for the original $250 deposit but too many unknowns now for me

Hell, I'd stay in for a $1000 deposit which would give Kevin $250,000 to help tie down the licences etc.

Such a shame. Probably the strongest licence possible for me. A fully working prototype and it all looks like it's fallen apart.

If Heighway pinball can get the licence for Aliens then Predator must be available on a similar deal.

If they sort the licence deal and offer some transparency then how mmany of us would jump back in?

but it's not $1=1Euro it's $1.50 = £1.
Much as I would like manufacturing to be done in the UK shipping and import duty back to the states would kill this stone dead as an idea

Shock! 250 middle aged men sign petition to refuse to see latest film in a franchise that was frankly shit after the first film.

I didn't even see the first one in the cinema

Anyone heard a peep out of the man in question since the generic email last week?

Just read the article.

Two major questions still spring to mind

1) Kevin why won't you respond to emails from people you've taken money from?
2) Kevin why haven't you refunded any money to any customers?

Without these two points being addressed why on earth would anyone believe anything else he says?

Anyone know what the credit card companies are doing to recover their losses? I can't imagine they are happy to simply write off the money they've refunded to buyers?

As someone who was also stung on Predator, I'd argue that GBLE is still a pre-order. Do you pay in advance and receive goods later? If so then you are effectively pre-ordering. After handing over your cash if either your distro or Stern go tits up then you're exposed.

Now, I don't think there's any real risk from Stern in this case. But unless you can pick up your machine at the same time as you pay then it is a pre-order

I was stupid enough to pay and pre-order Predator, Hobbit and MMr. Only one now exists and that was 18+ months late and still has issues with the screen tearing.

Surely by definition anything you pay for before the release date is a pre-order? There may be a very low financial risk with pre-ordering anything that Stern has announced but it is still a pre-order.

Do we get a chance to play before you pay? If not then we are taking a huge risk on game play. I pre-order GOT on the announcement day and then cancelled upon seeing the artwork. Suspect I'll still get one eventually but will want to play it more first.

Stern fully licencing games? My Walking Dead sound clips might suggest otherwise. Similarly pre-ordered a ltd version largely because there was no announced premium.

What about the coders? People change jobs, people retire, have problems in their personal lives and even die unexpectedly. In this situation would a manufacturer still stand by coding their existing games to the same degree or move onto the next one? Can you even imagine the cock up that a change of coders at JJP would make to the Hobbit coding? We pretty much take a leap of faith on new games having code developed over time.

Fires at the factory? Would Stern continue or cash in on the insurance?

Distros - a quick look at the fuck ups with MMr and JJP, Ministry of Pinball and the bunch of crooks inn Australia might make this look a little less secure.

Not saying that any of this is going to happen with GBLE just that in any situation when you have to pay for a product before it's fully ready there are risks. As pinball buyers we seem to pretty casual about the risks we take on. Sometimes if you sit back and think about what we do it's quite staggering.

Dealing with a lying meth head in a basement does significantly increase the risks though......

Sorry guys, this sucks. I'm lucky that I only lost $250 and recovered the rest from the card company. It's amazing that someone can steal this amount of cash, spend it on God only knows what and then not have to pay anything back.

I actually was sent a shirt. It seemed really it or miss who they were posted out to. Guess that should have been a warning sign. We were betting that he could build 250 pinball machines when in reality he couldn't even cope with posting 50 or so shirts out.

I've been dipping in and out of this thread over the last couple of years (?).
Am I really one of the few ex-Predator buyers who really couldn't care less if someone bought a machine or made one out of the abandoned parts?
They aren't the person who took my money or lied about having a licence.
I get people being angry with Kevin. I get people being angry with themselves (Why did I send all that cash to someone who was allegedly going to build machines in their basement?). If someone got the opportunity to salvage anything out of this shit storm then good for them.