(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

5 years ago

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  • Latest reply 5 days ago by Mr68
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Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (3 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (3 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (3 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (3 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (3 years ago)

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#11300 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

In this case, justice will never be served. Putting him in jail will never get people their money back.
But there is a chance some learned a valuable, although costly lesson and will finally be able to get on with their lives. Then there are those that will let it eat away at them forever.

I would argue that prison time is, in fact, justice for the victims.

I'm a late comer to this saga, and I only know what I've read here and in Google searches.

I'm not questioning the guy's guilt, but the question I have is this...

...at what point in the accepting money phase did this become fraud?

It's not clear to me if he

1) ignorantly assumed he was ok on the IP at the start and was taking money in good faith, later realizing he had a problem and forged ahead anyway, still taking money.

2) The above, but no new money taken when he realized there was a problem on IP usage

3) had a suspicion from the start he should not have been using the IP but tried it anyway and took money regardless

Ignoring completely any stuff about returning money or figuring out how it was spent...I'm wondering what the story is on the above.

1 month later
#11585 3 years ago

Just curious, but could somebody post the asset and liability list or PM to me?

#11645 3 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.
I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.
If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

If the piece of garbage that stole my identity and filed a false tax return in my name seeking an $8000 refund (yes, actually happened) this year has kids...does that make it ok?

Should they be permitted to trade on my good name?

After all, it was caught before any damage was done, so it's ok, right?

Thieves are pieces of dogcrap.

Whether they steal identity or currency, whether the victim is wealthy or poor, it doesn't matter.

Don't Take Shite That Isn't Yours!

If you do, don't cry and bitch when you have to pay the piper.

#11666 3 years ago

That doesn't sound like the sort of court paperwork I'd enjoy...

#11677 3 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.
I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.
If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

It seems you're confusing investing in a start up (risk of total loss) with buying a product from a start up company with no statement of implied risk from the vendor.

If you don't understand this simple concept there's little I, or anyone here, can do for you.

#11697 3 years ago

What about the kids he stole from?

That's the problem with thieves and criminals...their actions hurt innocent people, both during the time the crime is committed and again during the punishment phase.

Only one person is responsible for the wreckage, and it's not the prosecuting attorney.

#11770 3 years ago

There's a reason my wife and I don't make photos of our family public information...

#11779 3 years ago

90k? I had no idea homes were that cheap out that way.

2 months later
#11975 3 years ago

I'm an engineer with an MBA and I say make the thief pay until it hurts.

While I lost no money here, I did have a scumbag file a false tax return on my behalf this year with my personal information.

Same kind of people as Kevin in my view...FRAUDSTERS...strictly speaking as an engineer with an MBA, of course

3 weeks later
#12032 3 years ago

I'm amazed at the filings piling up against this dude. Nothing like watching the thumb screws getting tightened on a thief that's been caught.

2 weeks later
#12058 3 years ago

Ouch, Merry Christmas, eh?

You know what I've learned over the course of my engineering career? Always acknowledge and run TOWARDS your mistakes and screw ups as soon as you learn about them...it's amazing how things can be worked out so much better than you think.

I guess not everyone learns that.

3 weeks later
#12675 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I actually don't think he has a pile of cash. I think he is broke.
Part of the reason all of this failed is Kevin's lack of business acumen. He suddenly had access to more money than he had ever, or would ever, see in his lifetime.
It's long been spent on dumb shit, little by little.

...the downfall of many people who are handed a pile of money without having earned or grown it over time. They've no idea what they're doing and lack self control and discipline.

Perhaps the money is buried under a Big W? Or under a black, volcanic rock that has no early business being in a Michigan hayfield?

2 weeks later
#13314 3 years ago

Big Conspiracy?

Did anybody else picture Warden Norton when he said that?

1 week later
#13779 3 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

does "middle truth" = "alternative facts"?

Actually, I think "middle truth" was the language of Goblins and Orcs...

2 weeks later
#14305 3 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

I never understood how lawyers can defend people that are obviously criminal.
He sounds like he needed a few drinks just to show up via phone.
I guess I'll say a prayer for Kevin's family tonight. It is a shame he couldn't have been honest and re titled it alien jungle hunt, or alien hunter, body collector etc.and been a stand up guy
Wonder if clay is gonna voluntarily hand over his possession of the partial machines?

I think criminal defense is one of the most important aspects of a sound legal system.

What better measure of a legal system can there be than ensuring that those seemingly least deserving of sound and competent representation are able to receive it?

1 week later
#14349 3 years ago

Can somebody confirm my basic understanding of what's happening?

Kevin took money to build pinballs.
Kevin tried to use IP for the pinball for which he had no license and knew he had no license.
Everyone found this out after Kevin spent some of the money developing pinballs that he was going to sell.
Kevin could not deliver due to the IP fiasco.
The rest of the money was allegedly used for personal items unrelated to pinball.
Kevin cannot refund the money because it's gone...including on non pinball producing stuff.
Kevin attempted to file for bankruptcy to escape the people that wanted their money back.
Bankruptcy was denied because he couldn't produce records that showed he was a legit failed business.
He's now suspected, in Court, of fraud...because he filed for bankruptcy and was denied.

And finally, things are going blow up in his face as the legal path to his undoing is being carefully set out.

#14357 3 years ago

Great summary response to my post, thanks!

1 week later
#14496 3 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

if you're going to get particular, it's "regardless" and "moot", not "mute".

I'd love to see the court filled with a bunch of mutes. it would be all sign language and very little "one more outburst from you sir, and you'll be held in contempt!"

What if the court were filled with a bunch of yutes? Or maybe just two yutes...

#14620 3 years ago

This thread has to be my biggest guilty pleasure of pinball. I can't stop checking for updates...

#14624 3 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Clearly didn't get dry bummed on a predator pre order then, huh?

No, but I have been the victim of identity theft with a fraudulent tax return filed in my name and my social security account fraudulently accessed.

So watching this particular thief get taken through the process is serving as a proxy.

1 week later
#14781 3 years ago

I before e, except after c.

Honestly...if I'm submitting a court request, I'd be sure it pass(ed) spelling muster.

1 week later
#14917 3 years ago

I have a cousin who defrauded a few businesses by writing bad checks. When she was eventually caught, they totaled in the tens of thousands of dollars. Certainly not hundreds of thousands.

She spent some time in jail for that.

I wonder if the folks in question have any idea how serious this is.

1 week later
#15063 3 years ago
Quoted from aalucero:

Also has anyone looked at her photography page? The idiot has prices on the page so do the math to figure out how many photos she would have had to take to make $18,000

Probably better to subpoena the business records and tax filings to get the compete picture.

Oh wait...

#15089 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I liked it better imagining this was him

Yeah, the yute bit amused me.

#15091 3 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Are they trying to go to prison at this point? Man they are simply terrible at being crooks.

I think it's simply a case of "in your face" ignorance meeting reality.

We all know the type. They're the people the are proudly uneducated, loudly opinionated, don't take no Crap from nobody, and yall better not mess with friends because that's not how I roll. They think every personal failure is somebody else's fault.

They're idiots that are getting a first hand lesson in how the world works and are coming face to face with their shortcomings that have put them in to the situation they're in.

I have little sympathy for straight up thieves.

#15157 3 years ago

Isn't there something on the law books that covers fraud that crosses state lines?

1 week later
#15199 3 years ago
Quoted from c508:

Here's the TL;DR version of keithinmi's latest filing!

As my 12 year old daughter would say, "Oh, snippity SNAP."

#15209 3 years ago

For somebody that didn't know anything about her husband's business...she sure knew a lot about how hard he pursued vendors and whatnot...

#15227 3 years ago

Three feet of standing water in the basement when it rains? Is this house surrounded by a moat? On a lake?

#15232 3 years ago
Quoted from robbiedoo:

My favorite line is "I have really bad credit because I had a really crappy mother".
Pretty much sums up their attitude on accountability.

At least she didn't say 'grandmother', eh?

#15261 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Gotta admit I was on the fence aboot buying one but now that i know the very same basement they are built in is prone to 3 feet of water every time it rains; I'm out.

Some kids in the flooded basement.


#15345 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

People want to have large families so they can be extra unhappy with their lives:

I read the article and it distinctly ties unhappiness to lack of social programs that support raising kids and notes no difference in the sense of fulfillment that comes from being a parent across regions.

I support people's decision to not have kid, but bristle when people that don't have kids try to tell me I'm less happy than they are as a result. It's like somebody that never played pinball telling people on here they're happier than Pinsiders because they never bought a pinball machine.

In any case, I have extended family by marriage that have kids they can't afford. I can't explain it...they are in a bad financial situation already so the solution is more kids out of wedlock?

#15389 3 years ago

I've mentioned on this thread that I've been the victim of identity fraud and had a false tax return filed in my name last year as well as my Social Security information accessed online, which shows all my earnings history.

If somebody used my sterling financial history and name to acquire an asset, I would want that asset forfeited...not a second chance for the perp to find a way to pay for it and keep it and make me whole in the end. Not when it was my name and reputation that gave them the credentials to buy it in the first place.

Uh, uh. No effing way.

You used my good name to acquire? You give it back. Period. Isn't yours to keep.

I agree with Keith if he's after the house and not the money if it can be demonstrated that it was only acquired as a function of Predator money.

1 week later
#15561 3 years ago

Based on this PUBLIC court proceeding (that's America for you..it's designed to prevent things like North Korean justice), I will surmise that any written reply will be an interesting read. But I agree, open Court can be a bear if you're on the wrong side of the hard questions.

Did you notice the sudden change of cadence near the end when the Judge inquired about her address in Pacer and whether she received anything there?

#15580 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

There's some irony that Kathy was billed as their "legal department" for Skit B pinball

Forward that to the Judge...

#15587 3 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Something tells me that Keith may already have that info and more on the former "employees" of SkitB.

Yeah, this whole thing has been clinical. I suspect he's got his shiznit together.

#15599 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

If I had to guess, it's the first time he's ever had money at his disposal.

This is exactly it, in my opinion.

In most cases you cannot simply hand people a bunch of money and expect them to manage it. Unless the person built up a large portfolio honestly and through their hard work over time, they're like the kids in the candy store (or the basement).

It's why lottery winners often go broke, they didn't earn the money over time and cultivate the skills along the way needed to manage it. So they blow it.

I don't think this is any different.

#15626 3 years ago

Yeah, that is something.

With her 'mom' comment made in court combined with the photo and title of legal department, there are only two logical conclusions I easily see:

- she's more than a mom and was actively working for SkitB, in which case her statement to the judge was not truthful.

- she's really just a mom, thus making the photo and title an intentional deception to make SkitB appear legit for the purpose of...what?

#15644 3 years ago

Tigger? Yeah, I totally get that. Pooh was cool and I never trusted that bouncy friend of his.

1 week later
#15750 3 years ago


If the house is taken, this is a clear example of how the kids are forced to endure the hardship of poor, and fraudulent, actions of the parents.

I'm sure blame will be placed at the feet of the creditors, rather than on the faces in the mirror that thought they could keep money that wasn't theirs to keep.

The ironic thing is, had he set up a proper business entity and paid himself a salary, filed taxes accordingly, etc...the bankruptcy would probably hold water and a lot of this wouldn't be happening.

At least, I assume that's the case.

#15755 3 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Yep, but then they could not live off my taxes.

Ah, well, there's always a downside to everything, eh?

#15765 3 years ago
Quoted from Dalbok:

Dunning-Kruger Effect (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect)
I just heard/about this term this week. As soon as I read it, it made me think about the Kulek's and this situation.

This came up in another forum, it's a fascinating concept.

1 month later
#15936 2 years ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

Must be a pretty crappy home to be worth less than most SUVs are these days.

Lots of depressed areas in Michigan, doesn't surprise me in the least.

I agree with the interest free angle of what transpired, there should be interest penalties.

#16013 2 years ago

Well, that escalated quickly.

#16051 2 years ago

That was something.

#16060 2 years ago

She made a claim on the purchase price...and it sounded to me like the judge was probing with his questions.

The transfer fee is the giveaway if it's a flat percentage of purchase price.

Lenient? Somebody with legal training should comment, but it feels more like speak softly and carry a big stick.

Settling for 30k? Yeah, that's not something I'd do I were innocent and knew it.

#16074 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Oh, as in 1% of the purchase price? Nah, I believe the 250 was a flat fee.

Bummer...I was thinking real estate transfer then. That's variable where I'm at, so knowing the amount paid tells you the price of the purchase.

But, still...I sensed a change of tone when those gentle questions came up. That's the thing about public records and public trial and public courts...it helps protect participants against shenanigans, but you best come armed with truth and facts or you get exposed.

#16100 2 years ago

Where's the NERDS! meme from Revenge of the Nerds?

#16179 2 years ago

Ironic that they agreed to pay 30k by taking the avenue of getting a mortgage or HELOC and then it floods out.

They're now on the hook officially for that 30k, but the path by which they thought they'd get the loan appears to have taken a massive hit with the flooding of the asset.

The hits keep coming...

#16247 2 years ago

I can certainly understand how upsetting it could be to see photos of the kids posted up here given the nature of this entire debacle.


I'm probably one of five people in this country that doesn't use facebook, Twitter, or other stupid platforms for sharing my life's every move with the world.

#16281 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I listened to Kathy's audio - I'm no lawyer but it seems like the judge should not have let her ramble on and on over stuff that is not relevant at all. I just don't understand why he didn't stop her.

Some people seem prone to rambling rather than staying on point and constructing logical and reasoned statements. I don't know if it's a defense mechanism because it doesn't feel like an intentional effort to obfuscate the truth. Rather, it seems like a personality trait (MBTI type) that uses emotional arguments over reasoned ones. That's fine, but it doesn't lend itself well to these situations.

It's certainly not a trait I see often in the technical, management, and engineering folks I call colleagues.

#16330 2 years ago

The comment about the insurance not paying out is supposed to be a knock on the insurance company?

Didn't they read and understand what the policy would and wouldn't cover? Did they not sign off on being in a flood plain despite not having coverage?

I can almost guarantee they were made aware of this but, like many buyers, that failed to understand or evaluate risk, perform due diligence, and just assumed it would all work out. It's the same story again and again on why some people are always up against it. Failing to think stuff though.

I do feel bad for the kids, they deserve a stable, secure home.

#16354 2 years ago

Wait...the justification for theft is...you victims are only out $2000?

And she just acknowledged that?

Also, didn't she testify she knew nothing about the business?


#16499 2 years ago

You do all realize that the post purposely insinuates something nefarious with the comment, "posting pictures of children to an adult site", don't you?

As to the rest...I'd compare against the court testimony because that sounds different to me.

#16538 2 years ago

Jerry, just remember...it's not a lie, if you believe it.

#16654 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

All I want: them to take responsibility, stop victim blaming and lying and then sincerely apologize while admitting they took advantage of us. The mom calling Pinside an adult website and inferring we are perverts because some posters went to THEIR Facebook pages and reposted the publicly available data is more than slightly irritating...
They took my money based on a fraudulent lie from Kevin. They didn't give it back. I'm not the problem. Keith is not the problem. The pinball community is not the problem. Pinside is not the problem. The people who took the money under false pretenses and are lying about it are the problem.
Like everyone else I wish the children the best in these tough times. Doesn't matter what I think of their parents or grandparent, I know how disruptive it can be to be out your home and not know if you are ever going back. It sucks for the kids and I wish them stability and security.

Based on what I saw with a low class family member that did jail time for check fraud and a lifetime of mooching...I hope you're not holding your breath.

These people don't change. They don't accept accountability. They lie. They hold out there their hands. They have a sad tale to tell. They will not change.

#16712 2 years ago

News media seems like the avenue you'd take when first trying to get the situation out there and on the radar.

In this case, the judicial system is already fully engaged.

Not sure what really can be gained.

1 week later
#16791 2 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

No one goes to an "adult website" to buy a cabinet anyway...........

Depends on what you think CNC stands for...

#16796 2 years ago

You could make a "Find the Money" mode...goes on forever but you always lose the Bonus.

#16799 2 years ago

Maybe when you push start, you hear Keith say, "Good morning, your Honor".

Then there's "Predator Mode", it's clearly advertised in the middle of the playfield and central to the theme, but no obvious way to start it. You eventually come to realize it's not actually part of the game.

#16804 2 years ago

The Premium will include extra playfield accoutrements not found on the Pro.

#16821 2 years ago

What about a Fantasy Mode, where you try to compete shots to take Skit B public after reaching 1 million machines shipped?

1 week later
#16896 2 years ago

Could somebody elaborate on who he is and the significance?

#16905 2 years ago

Or coworkers...

2 weeks later
#16956 2 years ago

I get the impression she doesn't realize there's going to be a trial in the future.

#16958 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Yeah, it's like she thinks if she just "didn't get it in the mail", then she's off the hook.

So her defense is, I shouldn't have to pay back money for an asset acquired fraudulently because I lost the asset I acquired fraudulently?

#17023 2 years ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Unless they got a fraudulent receipt for less than paid to avoid taxes when you register it.

Which happens a lot.

I was selling a car quite a few years ago to a kid with a buddy at the notary place. His buddy asked him how much he wanted to buy my car for on the paperwork.

I told both of them I wasn't signing anything that was false and what they did after I left was on them.

One can only imagine how that went down after my departure.

3 weeks later
#17280 2 years ago

Halloween approaches...

1 month later
#17511 2 years ago

Here come De Fault, here come De Fault.

Some people just can't get out of their own way...

1 month later
#17735 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

....I STILL don't know the difference between seltzer, club soda, and tonic.

Seltzer is, I believe, straight carbonated water.

Club soda is softened with minerals.

Tonic has quinine.

I drink the first two all the time, never the third.

All should dissolve witches.

#17752 2 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

damn...I clicked the link and started reading but the spelling errors were too difficult to get through...

I read it, too.

It's not how I'd elect to represent myself on a website that's supposed to promote my business and livelihood.

2 months later
#17935 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

lol...er, I actually DO wear an XXXL....what that guy has is a 5XL!


2 months later
#17981 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

It's not over, still going.
Amanda was recently in court, audio here: https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1ap2016-02073-20180426-153136
Her full court date is June 1st.

I listened.

She's arguing that just because she was married to him, she's now inherited his mess.

The reality is, people that indirectly benefit from misallocated funds and whose names are on accounts from which those funds were drawn are liable.

It's like the people in our neighborhood that complain about property restrictions when they realize that, no... you can't put in an above ground pool. Their argument is that it's unreasonable to have read every document before signing at closing.

If your signature is on it, you own it.

2 years later
#18361 6 days ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

How many kids does this guy have?! He should have used some of that money and gotten himself fixed

I've never understood the phenomenon of men with either no real ability to support themselves, or questionable ability at best to be a family provider, always seeming to easily find any number of women that are apparently blind to this.

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