Lol, I called a similar number and now have the rights to Full House...
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Well I see a bunch of folks that voted with their wallets staying in arguing with guys that are not involved yet stirring the pot. Same story on each game.
Have to agree. In on a few titles but glad to wrap that up and just stay away from now on. Time for order and ship or dont bother. Sadly it may mean less cool stuff but it will mean more real stuff.
Meanwhile here is to these guys getting the games out.
I hear you but I still have faith that Dutch Pinball can become the cool pinball company. Not proven but its the last one I have faith in.
Regardless, why not let the two weeks period pass as SPfxted seems to think some good news will occur.
After all of this it is certainly worth two weeks to see if there is a positive here.
I know folks like Kevin and Jpop. Not great with people and communication. They tend to totally shut down when confronted. Does not mean they are usually done just that their way is to dig in and keep trying to get the solution. Sadly without telling others it looks that type of person is ignoring you when in truth they are trying to get whats needed done.
How about two weeks of positive hope and as SPfxted said if it comes and goes without major progress then get out the torches.
Once th line is drawn its a few plane trips and that's already starting. Yes it's been a while but folks are on it now.
A little less mock and a bit more support eh?
Quoted from DocRotCod:
Being realistic will put money in your pockets, being supportive just makes you feel better.
Talking crap and stirring up things is not being realistic. Folks have a game plan and people have booked trips. I will be the first to also hop on a plane or train as well. As I have in the past.
What are you bringing to the table?
Doctor your full of it. You are not this buyer and you were not buying the next game so quit the charade .
Again except for your personal entertainment how are you tring to help?
The podcasts are great. I'm totally addicted now. I also appreciated his non removed assessment as well as thoughts on all of our passion.
Much to to learn from him. The cheerleaders can ease up on those trying to help and the negatives could be nicer in trying to share what they see from a removed perspective with less of an attack theme.
27, why answer "scary "to pure speculation by Rai. We can't just make up stuff and start agreeing and spreading it. At this point I am concerned too but let's not throw gas on the fire either.
Quoted from Jared:
How could someone sabotage a project deal that was already signed and set in stone?
Trick question. How could someone sabotage a deal that was weak or not in place may be the one to ask.
Now it should have been solid but say it was not. Still shitty for folks to poke the bear.
On the flip side to that the poking probably started with kevins change of communication here.
Another great example of non invested folks crapping on buyers. Wonderful...
And now a speech by some lame ass about how they are saving everyone .
You sound like you are back stepping a bit. If all goes well who cares but if it's a bust you showed up here helping paint the picture that it's all good and that will carry some weight.
Heighway should probably ship something first before people get too far ahead of themselves.
Give them three more weeks
He had something in place. We saw all the skulls and bodies . The guy planned on making these games . It's no con but a case of reality.
Quoted from RobT:
And it should be an example of why the dumb phrase of "if you got no skin in the game, why do you care?" should never be uttered again.
The issue with that Rob is separating those that care and those that just want to flame every chance. I know they are two different people. But again its hard to tell and hard to deal with as someone in on a game.
The key to that statement is "care". There are core folks here who really do care.
Quoted from mcluvin:
I just hope most have learned to ask for background/experience, proof of rights, and a reasonable business plan before forking over thousands of dollars on something like this.
Pretty sure going forward its going to take way more than that to get money out folks again.
Quoted from mcluvin:
I totally agree, but any of these questions with real answers provided should have stopped this project dead in the tracks.
Timing! Like some of the hedge fund rip offs. It was the height of the fever and he was out here at shows and on pinside. It was real enough because people knew him in a sort of personal way and therefore blind trust. Plus I truly believe he was genuine in intent. Just needed what we have learned from Jpop as well. An organization making it happen and crossing the Ts.
Again it will be very hard to re create the moment.
So Kevin is in big trouble . And not saying it's ok but truth be told had this group not meddled games may have ended up in folks hands. Being such a mess probably not due to other operational issues but still. Also unless a legal paper was served how dare the group not leak the fox position .
Just a horrible story and Kevin's doing with the original lies.
Hard to believe he Vonnie Dd everyone. Someone figure out how to chase the money soon.
Aaron Dude you are a xxxx ! You chose to chime in cheerleading knowing what you know. You are not going to win that back amigo. Christ we even said that and kept on.
By the way remember Aurich came here right away first posting what he was sent. Kudos for thinking of the buyers first . Respect
Ice, it's all on Kevin but Aaron has been leading this on for a while way more than just supportive.
If I were Fox I wouldn't comment on the business arrangements I had with individuals who were not a party the agreement. That is just bad business. If someone contacted FAST to ask how much hardware a company ordered from us, even if it was an attempt to "clear up rumors" or some other noble effort, I would politely decline to comment.
That aside, the license topic was put to bed in the other horrible Skit-B thread. I am friends with Kevin. I have had the terms of the agreement explained to me. They are in order. So let's drop it.
These threads are not going to weed out any big conspiracy. They are only drama. I do think Kevin should post a "hey guys, things are fine. Busy building pinball!" message. But really, that would probably calm people down for a couple days before someone sits up the pot again.
If you don't like the way things are going, bail out. If you don't like the waiting game of a pre-order, then don't do it again. If you are stoked to support and indie pinball company in their first game, then rock on.
There are lessons learned all over the place here and I hope things improve on the communication front. This is easier for me to not stress communication because a) I don't have $ in on a Predator and b) I talk to Kevin regularly. But I do know the guy is working hard doing the best he can right now.
I am done reading these posts. They are stuck in a loop and generating nothing but ill will.
Aaron also said Kevin was a nice guy so that's one to be careful with.
The difference between him and you is that you have not sugar coated anything while stepping in the Jpop situation. You have told it from a very removed poin of view. If you told everyone stop asking questions take a break you know everythings ok and it wasn't that would be this story and that's not you.
At the same time it's not a great moment to be attached to Kevin or those that helped.
At least say you are sorry too. Damn what a load with the two week wait.
And yes it's still all Kevin's fault.
And you know what folks it's not just fn pinball! It's about people ! Damn I'm pissed off right now it's life not just a game.
As a child of the mosh pit it's insulting to associate Punk rock with fraud !!
Just saying two wrongs don't make a right . Ideallt it was legit . Secondly I would rather hear about 250 rogue games made than this. Clearly mr x group was more malicious than helpful by their choice to support fox busting Kevin over telling buyers .
Please don't turn out be part of this group...
Kevns a piece of shite but folks that killed this at the expense of owners and keeping quiet to help ruin kelvin over telling and helping pinsiders are a close second .
Maybe not today but I bet a some point that falls alert and we learn who mr x is.
I never said whysnow is any less guilty if he knows this. In the end 200 people will be screwed by a Kevin and a bunch of self serving folks . Fact
It's his fault but let's be honest. Mr x wasn't saving the world . People being as so wonderful as we are ...
Bullshit rob . Taking down kevin in revenge came over the truth.
Anyone who honestly gave a shit would have focused on the buyers and not Kevin's down fall. This was bitter revenge not saving pinball.
Kevin makes me mad but this is almost as bad. And no it does not make anything ok. As I said two wrongs don't make it right.
Kevin's shit is real . But we will also see them for who they are . People are people and people love to f up . We will know everyone involved at some point . ; )
Chris no way are we misdirecting what Kevin did . But we are saying that most of us know a core group also set out to cause harm. Again kevin bad but this group of guys are proven assholes as well. Called out and plenty of folks know damn well who they are anyway.
Ideally 200 people would have games . sorry fox would have been screwed and that is wrong too. But I my eyes better than this . Just an ass hats opinion .
But I always side with the outcome that equals games in someone hands.
Quoted from RobT:
You've now proven yourself to be on the same level as Whysnow.
Wow, sad what this proves. Sad..
But to be clear the issue of pinsiders with self serving agendas sucks but in NO way is it anywhere close to what Kevin has done.
Kevin is a criminal and defrauded the hobby, These guys got caught up in their game and it pisses me off but it should not be a distraction from Kevin. This is his shitestorm.
Rob, because I read what others have read as well puts me in his sandbox? I am not happy that he also dragged this out for buyers but your group did the same. Its you who are on his level, not me.
Quoted from RobT:
Quoted from RobT:
The fact that you think I did tells me even more about you though
Did not until you started saying what you were and placing me on his level for being upset at someones intent. Lets be very clear you took my non generalized statement and A. Took it to heart and B decided to attack me. Mr High and mighty.You made it clear how you feel about me and your words made things clear to me. So we are on even ground. Only I dont do it at others expense ; )
Quoted from RobT:
Don't you dare call it "my group" again.
Your group Your group Your group Your group ...
Quoted from RobT:
I still have no clue how you can call the whistleblowers who came out with the truth "assholes" or self serving when they are anonymous!
If their intent was to mess with someone over the benefit of the group its self serving and anonymity was for their benefit not to be gracious.
Again there is a lot of this we are doing it for the community. Well here is a chance that they could have come here right away. They could have served the community but it sure looks like they served their mission first.
Honestly I was pissed last night at everything. As more time goes by I tend to think even worse of kevin and to be fair think this blew up more then the X group thought it would. But I still think their game played out badly. Now kevin keeps proving he is really broken.
I think knowing what we all know now Predator still would not have happened.
Quoted from Erik:
That's exactly what a "pinside immortal" would say.
Hey I push back but let me be clear. I have no reason to think RobT is involved. My poking is just our arguing. Do not take that any other way.
Much more importantly these things are taking away from the only thing that matters at this point. This all pushed out the truth of kevins position, actions and lies which still seem to continue.
Money and crimes need to be the only focus.
I hope he is not issuing refunds like he was tackling anwering everyones emails last week.
Quoted from Nibbles:
Vid you sure have a hard on for people not getting anything back, is one of your buddies in the top 12 of the builds or what?
Really? That would not affect it in any way. He is trying to paint a realistic picture. Especially when you have some people thinking that this afternoon or tomorrow or next week the "swift" refund is coming.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I just got off the phone with Paypal and the lady told me that the SkitB account has the funds to apparently refund all people and transactions. She seemed to think it was going to take a little bit?
she asked me for 'patience'.
Just wanted to relay what I was told from paypal.
This has to be a 100% real. Especially because god forbid you make any single detail up about this and you would never be comfortable around the pin world ever again.
Damn hunchback you are nust crapping on these threads lately . Jpops not nice , this game sucks etc. slow down Debbie downer . By the way vid was giving examples of things that happen to various games not just this one. Now keep bringing that ray of sunshine to these folks right when they need it most ; )
You should have already filed with PayPal , filed with credit card and filed a police report . If you have not done this then it's hard to understand your position anymore.
If you sent a check file the police report so you have grounds for a possible tax deduction.
Quoted from HomeBrew:
Does it matter how large of a family I have, people seem to think a $50, 000 dollar house on Pinside is a slum house.
You are completely missing the point. That point being that its a good chance with the equity position of that value that a young guy has no means to borrow more.
Its not an insult at you or anyone else.
I like you both but you have to step back. You are arguing with the guy that lost the money. We can argue all day long about how wrong making the games under the radar would have been or if they could have been. But what we do know for a fact is that AG shut it all down. And arguably but to many of us out of malice.
Both can wear both hats.
As moderator, pinsider and burned customer and he as Designer-Pincompany, Dissed Vendor,pinsider.
Both have been here in the community a long time and both suffered enough in this mess to vent once and a while and be angry in whatever hat they wear at that time.
You are confused. People are mad at kevin. Also mad at AG. One does not negate the other.
Talk about fd. Just strolling around enjoying the hobby. Helped screw over all those people.
The best thing now in this thread would be for the gifs and these arguments to stop and focus on who got charge backs and especially why Playboywillis had his challenged.
You should edit that post and spell his name out. The more his name hits on these threads the more google will keep it at the top and draw folks to this mess.
So if Kevin somehow he proved he was not lying would he not still have to return funds?
Quoted from vid1900:
But, let the thumbs down roll, bitches!!!!!
Dude! I actually wish he got away with the down under games but at the same time once it blew up he had to do the right thing and he did not. Not one refund. So in the end he proved he was a snake and therefore having daughters is not a free ride to rape everyone here and get away with it.
Quoted from vid1900:
He can't make any refunds until all the chargebacks come out in the wash.
Day one he sends 10 refunds. day two he sends an email..FINALLY and says hey with charge backs I need to sort this out.
Maybe it stalls there but some attempt vs none and bs going dark. He could have stalled the lawyers by doing anything the next day. And even if lawyers are now involved could have then said I started the process with the intention but could not continue due to X Y and Z.
Sorry I see a pattern of lies from start to finish and zero sign of good intentions.
Quoted from vid1900:
What if refunded money to people who had already started chargebacks?
How awesome would it be for him to be posting please return the over refund issued so I can keep giving others theirs back.
Like I said out of 180 even if 2, 5, 10 or more got a refund it would have shown some attempt. But we are past that.
Wow! This could be an amazing turn around. God ! In the end Jpop will be the worst story. Who knew...
Cmon people!! You don't have to hit him but can't you at least point at him and call him out? Make him uncomfortable at pinball events!
If I were him reading this I would laugh.
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