(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18,301 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 15 hours ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#1397 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm in the same mess with jpop, my money is gone and no game and no idea if or when i'll get it. I won't leave the hobby if I lose my money though, but I am never pre-ordering anything ever again. Cash & carry from now on.

Yep. It's really a shame that so many of these pre-order "boutique" companies are being run by incompetent people. Even if they had the best of intentions, they have done more harm to the hobby than good.

#1407 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

To defend them though they are inexperienced, not incompetent. They may be able to produce these games, the issue is with their inability to understand the scope of the projects and the demand they put on themselves as soon as they take a dollar from someone.

I hate to be so blunt, but I call 'em like I see 'em. Inexperience may be a major reason why they are incompetent, but they are incompetent nonetheless. The facts speak for themselves. When you take so much money from the community, it's about more than just bringing the game to fruition. You are responsible for money management, timelines, communication, etc ... If someone doesn't have the necessary skill set to run every aspect of the company, then they need to bring people on board who can.

#1414 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I seriously think some people love to see folks lose their money and also see Skit-B crash and burn.

No doubt. Some people seem to get off on other's misfortunes. It's really pathetic.

20
#1654 4 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

I think the doom & gloom on pinside is sadly legit. To say it's negative here is a sign of the times in Pinball rather than the mindset of some forum folk.

I would agree with that. It's easy to point the fingers at Pinside, but the attitudes on the site are just a reflection of the frustration that people are feeling these days for many legitimate reasons. When people have large sums of money on the line with complete uncertainty about whether or not they will ever get anything to show for it, you can't blame them for becoming cynical.

#1971 4 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

Dark City is a fantastic film.

Agreed. One of my all time favorites.

1 week later
#2414 4 years ago

Yep. The announcement is coming in 3 ..... 2 ....... 1 ......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

10
#2887 4 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

So after tons of reading it seems like there are only three options left. And two of the three probably won't happen or shouldn't happen.
The first is the obvious and will probably be what happens. Everyone keeps speculating on whats going to happen. Ether way it doesn't matter if you want the game or want your refund because neither option seems to be avaliable and we can just sit here and wait it out.
The second option plausible but not likely. Those who want refunds get legal action started but that will just cost everybody more money in the long run and probably even less chance for anybody to get anything.
The third and most out there but beginning to seem plausible is we get as many pre order people together as possible at kevins house and have a good long conversation about what's really going on.

You forgot about option number four:

Kevin abandons the project, apologizes profusely, gives everyone a full refund, and eats all the losses.

#2898 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Lets get serious, he is no Gene Cunningham. I'm sure whatever is sitting in that paypal account is all the money he has in the world.

I have no idea what Kevin does or doesn't have. I was merely providing an alternative to the three options mentioned above.

#4946 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Is an insanity plea possible?

That's what I'd be pushing for if I was his lawyer.

11
#4957 4 years ago

Man, this has to be the fastest moving thread we've ever seen. It's a full time job trying to keep up with it.

#4988 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

People want something so badly they are willing to throw money on the table, even if the product doesn't exist. I would feel similar if a Metroid pin was announced. Sometimes you let your emotional attachment to something cloud your judgement.

It was also a very different time in the hobby three years ago. People had never seen a project implode like this before, so they were completely unprepared for something like this to happen. It was a small hobby, and there was a feeling of comradery among us. Pinball was exploding in popularity, and everyone wanted to be a part of the renaissance. Looking back, it was truly a time of innocence.

13
#5253 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmanguy:

And what if they went public but Kevin got a license in the end and then fox and kevin went after anonymous for costing them sales? What if Kevin did a runner and Fox went after anonymous?

How in any way, shape or form could Fox or Kevin go after someone simply because they chose to enlighten the community about what was really going on. They were under no obligation to stay silent, even if Fox asked them to.

16
#5264 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmanguy:

Imagine if they went public, everyone pulled out demanded refunds got out their pitchforks, then Kevin did secure a license and with Fox now in his corner deny they never had a problem, who would be blamed then for the failure of the project? There's a lot of factors involved.

Sure, there were many possible outcomes at that point, but one fact was indisputable ... Kevin built his company on a lie. Once this lie was exposed, I would argue that everyone who was in on the game had a right to know. Don't keep that information a secret. Share it with the community and let the chips fall where they may.

20
#5464 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Look at this rage against the anonymous group. I believe they sent Pinside mods the allegations as well. Did Pinside warn anybody or even suggest some caution and prudence when things got sketchy? They apparently want to be a neutral party. At a time when any warning by an end user got skewered by others, a Pinside authority might have been the voice that was listened to.

Let me set the record straight. Pinside was not privy to any information beyond what was in the emails that were circulating from the anonymous group. These were the same emails that were apparently sent to many people in the community, and I'm guessing were forwarded to countless others. We chose not post these emails on Pinside for the same reason that nobody else posted them on Pinside. At the time, there was simply no way to know if the claims were legit. To make it even more confusing, none of the emails were sent directly to us. They were all forwarded to us second hand, making it even more difficult to discern if anything had been altered. We attempted to ascertain whether or not the information in the emails was factual, but we were unable to do so. The emails were written by an anonymous source, so it's not as if we could call them up on the phone and ask them to corroborate the story. Naturally, we reached out to Kevin, but he would not respond to any of our inquiries.

The bottom line is that we were just as much in the dark about this as everyone else. Even within our small group, there was disagreement about what was really going on. Since we could not verify the information, our hands were essentially tied. It is our practice not to officially endorse anything on Pinside that isn’t backed by evidence. This applies to everything, not just this situation. It should also be pointed out that most of the allegations made in the anonymous emails made their way on to Pinside anyway. We did not delete these posts or in any way attempt to control the flow of information. We just couldn’t officially take a position without all the facts.

#5486 4 years ago
Quoted from DrStarkweather:

I really wish that somebody had made a documentary film about the making of the Predator game. I think it would have turned out pretty awesome. So many twists and turns.

No doubt. It's definitely more drama than one would have ever even thought possible in the pinball universe.

#5497 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

I offered a very neutral statement that makes everyone aware of the 2 facts you did have. There were allegations and Kevin wasn't responding to Pinside's questions regarding them. It would have safely prompted most people to take notice if they hadn't already without showing favor to one or the other.

The whole situation was not as cut and dry as you make it seem. Like mettalik said, hindsight is 20-20. Kevin had gone radio silent, and nobody knew why. A lot of people, including some of the mods, assumed it was because he was in the process of negotiating a last minute license deal with Fox. We weren't about to post anything that could potentially cause a panic and kill the project without facts to back it up.

#5508 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Conversely, it was a possibility that he was screwing everyone. It was a possibility the project needed to be killed. Where's the neutrality in the decision that was made to not say anything? Which did it favor, Kevin or the community?

As I stated before, the information was already out there on the forum. We just didn't feel it was appropriate for Pinside to officially endorse it. While we were attempting to verify the information in the anonymous emails, Kevin said that a big announcement was coming in two weeks. Upon hearing this, it solidified the fact that there was nothing to be gained by Pinside chiming in at that time. The reality is that two weeks wouldn't have made a difference. It's not like we sat on pertinent information for months.

15
#5563 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Because my whole opinion/argument is based on him "not" wanting to scam people from the beginning and doing this out of true passion and heart. I just don't see any traces of this being a pure scam from the start.

If it was a scam to steal money from the start, then it was one of the worst executed scams I've ever heard of.

#5582 4 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

You cant say that's the worst scams executed. Did you forget we live in the state of Illinois?

By "worst" scam, I didn't mean the largest in scope. I meant the most poorly executed.

#5632 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

If this was a total scam from the start wouldn't Kevin have removed the money from PayPal as soon as it came in?

How do we know he didn't? For all I know, he's sitting on an island somewhere right now sipping a piña colada from a coconut? Has anybody actually seen Kevin in person recently?

15
#5887 4 years ago

Do you guys honestly think Martin just took AG's word for it and ran with the story? I find that highly unlikely. He doesn't strike me as the kind of journalist would would risk his reputation by publishing a story without first verifying the facts.

#6079 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm not saying you're wrong but this hobby seems to still be growing at a remarkable pace (it's not so little any longer). I think the audience for pinball news is large enough to support two news outlets.

Pinballhead.com was another news outlet, but it looks like the site hasn't been updated in a very long time:

http://pinballhead.com/

#6084 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'm sure you realize that Fox can't bring a criminal case against Kevin, right?

Why can't they bring a suit against him? He collected a shitload of money using their IP. Or are you just saying that the suit wouldn't be a "criminal" suit?

18
#6220 4 years ago
Quoted from oopsallberrys:

Paypal has closed my case and filed in my favor. I got my "refund" of 4500 ...

You should just forward that money right over to JPop. Now that the Predator refunds are starting to hit, Alice in Wonderland slots are filling up fast ...

#6387 4 years ago
Quoted from rgb635:

It would be great if Fox would pursue this on behalf of the pre-order victims but even if not I think the court is the place to start.

I wouldn't think Fox cares at all about the pre-order victims. All they care about is protecting their IP. Period.

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