(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)


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#1517 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I know everyone's going crazy and I understand. But, hopefully in a couple weeks, we should know everything. Kevin sounded sincere when we spoke, so let's give him the time he needs and see what happens.

What a freekin' train wreck! I guess Kevin's last two emails count as bi-weekly updates? I appreciate your inside comms with Kevin, Ted. I really do. But I focus my frustration at Kevin! If he has time to talk to you or anyone, he has time to talk to/email me. I don't know if Kevin is wasting time looking at this f$%#ed up thread, and I hope he's not. Better things to spend his time on. Like communicating (not here, but) directly with his customers! I'm paid in full since August, 2013. I expect some communication and I expect it now. I'm in for the long haul. I may lose the whole wad, but I am willing to take the risk. Sometimes investments payoff and sometimes they don't.
I'm very disappointed in all the shit slinging going on here from a bunch of 17 year old high school juveniles. (Let the thumb downs, commence. I'm on a venting roll.)
This entire communication should be via emails or direct phone calls from Kevin to his customers.
Transparent communication, Kevin. Communication...
*Reading this before hitting send post. Ted, I appreciate your input. None of this frustration is aimed at you. *

#212
We need the best. That's why you're here.

#1586 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Probably not "theft" but the buyers might have a legal right to get their money back, and could sue (civil court, not criminal) to try to get it. It would depend on 1) the agreement (either written or verbal) between SkitB and the buyer, and 2) state law, which will determine how the contract is interpreted (and could even make some provisions of the contract invalid -- as an extreme example, a contract selling someone into slavery would not be enforceable even if all the parties agreed to it). The buyers would need to argue that SkitB has violated the agreement by refusing to provide the refund (or failing to ship the game).

I was wondering about legal recourse options as well, as a last resort. I am afraid, however, that Kevin may be using up a chunk of build money on legal fees already (Fox, et al). I hope he gets this train wreck back on track soon or the real storms may be brewing.

#1633 4 years ago

Well, to lighten up the mood so that we all feel better... Last night I sat down to a pot of homemade chili and watch the Predator movie. It don't get no better than that!

#1752 4 years ago

I've reviewed all my emails from Skit-B. No formal contracts, but the email confirmations of the transaction should suffice as a bill of sale. Also, I didn't see the company anywhere identified as a LLC. So, if this is a private agreement between two (actually 250) parties, I guess small claims court would be the step to follow, should the entire project fail with no refunds/settlements.
I hope the project succeeds! I want my #212!!!

2 weeks later
#3173 4 years ago

There's so much wrong with this entire shit thread. Why aren't you all ringing his phone off the hook to get an answer? The forum approach and the email approach everyone has been attempting isn't even worth a try, so why even bother. I really want a Predator pin, but it's looking more and more like it ain't gonna happen.

I'm going to call Kevin tomorrow and ask him what's up. I want straight answers. Is the machine going to be built or not? If so, when? I hope I can at least get a call through.

I'm going to mail him a certified letter, receipt signature required, summarizing the details of our conversation and my expectations. In that letter, if a refund is requested (this of course depends on the outcome of the call or the inability to complete the call), I will insist upon $4,750. Otherwise, legal action will be taken.
After my call to Kevin, should anything other than a Predator pin or a full refund be his response, I'm going to engage an attorney. Now that will at least cost me a several hundred dollars, but that's probably less than what I'd lose on a prorated refund, if any.

Hell, what about a lien on his property? I've been patient, but no more. If this entire project has been a lie based on bad business decisions (or lack of any business decisions), then I want to get my cash back. He can eat his losses since his wounds were self inflicted.
Sorry, Kevin. But your time is up as far as I'm concerned.

#212
We need the best. That's why you're here.

27
#5254 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

There's so much wrong with this entire shit thread. Why aren't you all ringing his phone off the hook to get an answer? The forum approach and the email approach everyone has been attempting isn't even worth a try, so why even bother. I really want a Predator pin, but it's looking more and more like it ain't gonna happen.
I'm going to call Kevin tomorrow and ask him what's up. I want straight answers. Is the machine going to be built or not? If so, when? I hope I can at least get a call through.
I'm going to mail him a certified letter, receipt signature required, summarizing the details of our conversation and my expectations. In that letter, if a refund is requested (this of course depends on the outcome of the call or the inability to complete the call), I will insist upon $4,750. Otherwise, legal action will be taken.
After my call to Kevin, should anything other than a Predator pin or a full refund be his response, I'm going to engage an attorney. Now that will at least cost me a several hundred dollars, but that's probably less than what I'd lose on a prorated refund, if any.
Hell, what about a lien on his property? I've been patient, but no more. If this entire project has been a lie based on bad business decisions (or lack of any business decisions), then I want to get my cash back. He can eat his losses since his wounds were self inflicted.
Sorry, Kevin. But your time is up as far as I'm concerned.
#212
We need the best. That's why you're here.

I called Kevin last Friday and left a voicemail message. Didn't hear back from him so this morning I sent a reply to his email from the wee hours of this morning. I told him that I need to get some additional information from him that I would like to have should I find it necessary to start litigation in order to receive my refund. Then I made contact with two attorneys in Michigan to determine my options and costs involved in pursuing this. (I have not received responses from them yet.)
Kevin replied to my email this morning although I was unaware of it.
In response to the pending litigation he replied "I assure you that none of that will be necessary. We are cancelling the project and returning all of the money we received to those who sent it in, including yourself. That being said, I will reach out to you, as you've asked."

I called him again this afternoon and had a good long conversation with him. Life lessons learned here. His partners/vendors have taken a loss and he is by far taking the lion share of the loss. It will take years to recover, but he agreed that refunding everyone in full is to be done and would be less expensive than going the litigation route. Regarding the amount of the refund, he stated that the refunds would be in full.

I specifically questioned if he had an EIN, corporation charter, LLC. No. This is all on his SSN. So, from that we can conclude that recourse could even include property liens against Kevin. So, he has a mess to clean up and it is all on him.

So, next is the certified letter stating that he has 30 days to comply.

Now, about the Mr. X and the secret team. What did they do wrong? They would have either confirmed that the licence was valid or that it did not exist. Either way they accomplished what they set out to do. (LICENCE CONFIRMATION) So, they bailed out and got their money back? I'm bailing out and intend on getting my money back, even if it requires litigation. I personally am grateful that they were helpful in stopping this runaway train from creating more damage than has already been done.

Now, my thoughts about Fox going after him. Did Kevin actually sell any IP property? I don't think so. So, there may not be too much to go after now that he has complied with the C&D. I sure hope they drop it at this point.

Kevin has clearly made a terrible business decision and is liable for compensating everyone for their losses. I won't rule out the legal recourse until 30 days are up. At that point we'll go swinging at it.

In the meantime, Kevin, fund your checking account and start writing checks.

#6326 4 years ago

Well, I went to my bank branch today to see if they could assist in any way. I paid by check. The fraud department obviously wasn't there today, but the branch manager said that I needed to do the following in this order:
1. Go to MY LOCAL police station and file a fraud report.
2. Then contact the fraud department at the bank. She wasn't sure if/how they could assist, but to set anything in motion these things needed to take place.

So, I'm gonna be busy come Monday morning.

Cheers.

#6396 4 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

Could provide an address to the AG or county attorney where he lives, and everyone could send a letter, they would get a lot....it definately enough to be a felony

Googled the Michigan AG. Here's a link with instructions on filling out a complaint.
https://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17331-42077--,00.html

From the site: "In some cases, the Consumer Protection Division may be unable to obtain any cooperation from the business. If the business refuses to respond, we will inform you in writing. You may then want to consider filing suit in Small Claims Court or consulting with a private attorney to review your legal options."

So, the way I read that; they can act as a mediator, but if Kevin refuses to play ball, you'll have to sue him.

#6423 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

This is probably a silly question but I have never filed a police report. Should I file one in kansas city where I live or in michigan where Kevin lives? He's had plenty enough time to keep in contact with us and he refuses to.

I spoke with my local bank branch last Saturday. They instructed me to file a fraud report with MY LOCAL police office in which I reside.
I'm preparing my documents tonight and am going to file tomorrow. I'm also going to file with the Michigan AG.
Good luck to us all!

24
#6433 4 years ago

If you must insist on going to see Kevin face to face, take a police officer with you. Might even want to have that arrest warrant delivered at that time. In fact, you better check in with the police before going to the trouble to go up there. If you don't have them with you, you will be trespassing.
Be smart.

#6444 4 years ago

I urge each and every one of you customers to file a consumer complaint/fraud report with the Michigan Attorney General. Did that today. One thing that I did notice, and here is their quote:
"Because of the enormous volume of complaints we receive, however, the Attorney General's office cannot file lawsuits on behalf of individual consumers. Rather, the Attorney General will sue a company only when the general public interest is involved or in certain cases involving a large number of consumers."
If we have 200+ consumer complaints filed against Mr. Kulek, that might be a large enough population to gain their interest and motivate them to do something.
Step by step, please continue to share your progress.

#6690 4 years ago

Need a little address information if anyone has some details. Please PM me because this is private and is related to legal action.
Now, about the address as recorded on whois, I cannot find a recorded parcel of such with the registrar of deeds in Midland, Michigan. So, I suspect it is a fake address (I hope I'm wrong, because I've mailed certified letters to that address with no response to date). Does anyone know where Kevin lives and can provide an address? Again, please PM, do not post publicly.

Thanks.

#6838 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

This would be the most frustrating part in my mind. To go through all the work, headaches, and MORE money (for lawyers, court fees, travel, whatever) and in the end you may still not get anything back. Because ultimately, I don't see how Kevin avoids declaring personal bankruptcy.

I've started researching Michigan bankruptcy law and want to make sure everyone is aware of the laws regarding non-dischargeable debts:

The following debts may be declared non-dischargeable by a bankruptcy judge in Chapter 7 if the creditor challenges your request to discharge them.
1.Debts you incurred on the basis of fraud.

The list goes on. But this is a breath of hope.

Enaud

#6960 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Looks like they even have online filings, but I would avoid that and call their office directly:
"To file on-line go to On-line Consumer Complaint/Inquiry, otherwise send by regular mail or fax as listed above. If you have any questions, please call the Consumer Protection Division Monday through Friday from 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM at (517) 373-1140 or toll free 1-877-765-8388."
I would tell them what's going on, don't get passionate or upset about it. Talk to them reasonably and ask to speak to a manager or a supervisor, because you have a hundred people or so that will need to file reports and you would like a single point of contact for the group.
I've worked with the consumer protection group in NC before and they were extremely helpful in getting my money back.

I did the online filing almost two weeks ago and I've heard as much from them as I've heard from Kevin.

#7400 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

The big question I would have is whether Kevin's eventual bankruptcy proceeding (my guess is it is coming sooner or later) would stay the out of state lawsuit(s) and have it (them) transferred to Michigan bankruptcy court for a ruling.
I don't know enough about bankruptcy law to opine on that point . . . but I do know it would suck to lose venue that way . . . perhaps a pinlawyer more knowledgeable on bankruptcy procedure can weigh in on whether a pre-judgment out of state lawsuit would be subject to being transferred to the bankruptcy court.

Does anyone have a Pacer account to inquire and see if Kevin's filed bankruptcy?
If he does, I want to be a creditor making a demand.

13
#7496 4 years ago

So, how does Martin get to have speaks with Kevin, when:
I'm a paid in full customer.
I've sent him certified mail that he won't pick up from the post office.
I've left him email seeking contact.
I've left him voicemail seeking contact.
I've left his wife voicemail seeking contact with Kevin.

Martin, do you have an inside method of contacting Kevin? If so, give it to me.

#7689 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

I like it, and you're probably right.
I still am struggling to accept how easy it has been to essentially steal hundreds of thousands of dollars, and leave everyone with so few options and so little hope at getting any substantial refund, all because Kevin simply won't give it back. I would honestly expect to be arrested on the spot and pay restitution if I stole $50 from some dude on the street - how is this mess such a "can't do much about it" problem in this age of connectivity and global commerce?
Still hope this all works out somehow.

There is much that can be done about it, but it takes time. The legal system is slow, but in the words of you know who, "you can expect some good news in a few short days..."
Just because you don't see anything right now, does not mean that things are not happening behind the scenes. Be patient... Get busy doing what you need to do. No one can do it for you.

#7743 4 years ago

Health insurance companies, for example.

#7901 4 years ago

So, can Kevin be let out of jail to come to small claims court?

#7984 4 years ago

Yep. Things are happening now.

#7996 4 years ago

In hindsight I wish I had used paypal and credit card. I paid by check. So, I'm having to go after Kevin myself.

-1
#8032 4 years ago

So, if he can't pay refunds in civil court, I wonder if one could get the prototype game as settlement?

#8034 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

divided into 250 equal parts

Hey check out this translite! Only cost me $4,750!

68
#8056 4 years ago

I hesitated to mention what's been going on because I've been afraid Kevin might be a flight risk. But he's finally been serviced by the Midland County Sheriff's Office, and I have a court date with him on the calendar.
So, if Kevin and/or his attorney read this, feel free to contact me so we can settle this out of court. Otherwise, I'll look forward to seeing you there. I'm glad to see a little traction made here, although I know there is still a long way to go.

10
#8060 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

So I assume this is just a civil case and your attempt to reclaim your money? Are you looking for damages beyond your down payment and also legal fees? I also assume that the detective investigating whether there was criminal activity is a completely separate issue, right?

You are correct, sir. Just seeking to reclaim my money and legal fees (which is not much at all). I have paid in full, so it's more than just a down payment I'm looking at for reimbursement. Now, the detective's investigation ain't going away by any means. That's a separate case, and a felony case at that, and he has all my information related to that case as well.
I think that the more trouble that Kevin sees is coming his way, the more likely he is to start taking action and refunding everyone.

#8063 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

But he also didn't do any of this under an LLC, so I think his assets can be liquidated if things get ugly.

Things are ugly. If civil court doesn't end with a resolution, discovery and liquidation of assets is the next step.
Must follow the letter of the law...

#8068 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

That is good news. Are you able/willing to disclose what venue you are suing him in?

It's quite simple, really. 75th District Court. Small claims court.
Here's a link to instructions on how to do it.
http://co.midland.mi.us/Courts/75thDistrictCourt/CivilDepartment/SmallClaims.aspx

Here's more information about the process.
http://courts.mi.gov/Self-help/center/casetype/Pages/SmallClaimsSH.aspx

It includes a link to help in filling out the forms.
http://michiganlegalhelp.org/self-help-tools/consumer/i-have-small-claims-case

I hope this helps out anyone seeking this route. Still there's no guarantees this route will be successful. But it's a step in the right direction.

27
#8071 4 years ago

Sorry playernumber4, I have a little trouble following your logic. First, in such a civil case as this, neither side is allowed legal representation. It's me, Kevin and the judge/magistrate. This case and the criminal investigation are separate things. There's lots of good information provided in the links I provided above. This should help you understand the process a little better. Of course, I do not claim to be any expert, however the detective was very supportive and encouraging when I explained to him what I'm doing.
Now, if Kevin can't/won't pay, then it starts to get a good bit uglier. We file for a property discovery, and then force liquidation of assets. I sure hope it won't go that far. He'll just be digging his hole deeper if he plays that card.
Now, I do have a long drive ahead of me to get to Michigan, but hey I'm taking some time off and am going to make a little vacation out of it. So, I'm making lemonade out of lemons, if I can.

#8113 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Enaud, when I was looking into this matter myself, I found this line from courts.mi.gov in regards to small claims court.
"If you want an attorney to represent you, you should tell the court before the trial, and the case will be transferred from the small claims division to the regular district court. See MCL 600.8408 and form DC 86"
"Either party may request that the case be removed from the small claims division. In that situation, the trial will not be held and the small claims case will be treated like a regular civil case and decided later."
Considering his lawyer is free, he will most certainly be able to get representation. Then, if you aren't prepared, you'll be without representation fighting against a lawyer.
Then, even if you get the ruling... "If the party owing the judgment fails to pay the judgment when ordered, you must go back to the court and file additional papers to collect on the judgment by having the wages or a bank account garnished or property seized. This cannot occur until 21 days after the judgment is entered. "
I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is what I found for MI courts.

Yep. You're right. This is not a slam dunk by any stretch. We can't let Kevin slide on this, however. If the civil suit fails, the felony suit will certainly catch him. I'm sure the detective is making progress. This whole damn could drag on for just about forever...

But like I said earlier, I'm going to make a vacation out of it. I'm planning to checkout the mechanical museum in Farmington Hills. So, either way, I'm out for having fun with all of this!

#8133 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Thanks. Anyone can PM me a mail address? All I have is a PO box for Skit-B.

Problem with the mail: I started my adventure by sending such a letter via certified USPS mail to K. He refused to pick it up at the post office. If you send it regular mail, he will claim he never received it. So, if you want him to get a letter you will have to have him serviced. The Midland County Sheriff's Office will do that. Cost $34.10 (fee plus mileage). The letter referenced in the above post sounds like the beginnings of a civil suit. That's small claims court. If that fails in recovering your money, then you will be able to proceed to the next step (discovery of property and forced liquidation / bankruptcy). I don't think you can bypass steps and jump to forced bankruptcy.
But hell, I hope we can just get our money back.
On another topic: Does anyone have the contact info for Kevin's attorney? Please PM if so.

#8239 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Why does that any of that matter? Regardless of intentions it makes not the slightest difference from a civil standpoint. He said "money is going to be given back". It isn't. Intent and motive only really comes up in determining determine criminal punishment (afaik yes?)
Just because he started out with good intentions doesn't mean he doesn't owe the money back... and if he started out with bad intentions it doesn't mean he owes any more/less to the buyers either. It's irrelevant.

Okay, you're missing the point here. It is CRITICAL that the court is aware that he knew he had no license to legally produce and deliver this merchandise. As such, he acquired the funds under "false pretense". Therefore, if he chooses to declare bankruptcy, the creditors can make the bankruptcy court aware of this and as a result the purchases become a "non dischargeable" debt. This is extremely important if he chooses to file for bankruptcy.

If you want your money back you need to file a civil complaint. Leave it to the Midland County Sheriff to take care of the criminal complaint.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have lots of good lawyer jokes. Let's bring 'em on!

2 weeks later
19
#8442 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

^yeah, I remember reading that awhile back, the kid is about as deep as a puddle...
Has anyone gotten a court date set yet?

Next Tuesday. I'll be there. I hope Kevin will...

#8445 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Good luck! Are you driving all the way up to MI for this or do you have a lawyer appearing on your behalf? Either way, hope it goes well for you.

I'm making it a vacation. It's a drive, but I'm going to have fun. At least I'm away from work for a week!!!!!

#8449 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Hopefully you're not driving all the way up for the arraignment.

It's small claims court.

#8454 4 years ago

I expect a default judgment as well.
Called the detective today and left voicemail for a callback. And he replied in the same way that Kevin is replying.
I doubt that Kevin will show up for the court session. But hell, I paid by check, what else can I do???

16
#8457 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Once you get a judgment ... Then you GET to collect. In this case ... It will be a pleasure .

But collecting is like getting blood from a turnip. I'll have to wait 21 days file more legal forms to have a discovery of property made. Then the court will force liquidation of assets. So, this time next year, we might get a resolution, if we're lucky.

If I can hook up with the detective I'm going to pursue a criminal arrest if I don't get a settlement.

10
#8463 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You would want to do a Judgment Debtor exam. He will be required to appear for that. If he doesn't, a bench warrant can be issued for his arrest (at least in California).
This is a very useful tool.

Thanks for the info, RobT. This applies in Michigan as well. This is what happens after that 21 days I mentioned earlier. Some may think this is just too frustrating. But that's what Kevin is hoping for: that folks won't think it's worth the trouble to go through this.
Don't give up people! Drag him through the court system and make him pay!

#8470 4 years ago

Spoke with the detective this morning.
One thing that is slowing the investigation down, is jurisdiction. No one that is a resident of Michigan has come forward and filed a complaint!
Come on Michigan victims get your ass in gear!

1 week later
39
#8505 4 years ago

Enaud's back home!
Made it home last night late from the trip/vacation. What a blast it has been!
Sunday I made it to just south of Detroit and camped out at Sterling State Park. It's a nice park with good walking trails.
On Monday I made the pilgrimage to Marvin's Marvelous Mechanical Museum. That place is packed in with just about every square inch with machines! Cool mechanical devices and very entertaining. They had about a dozen pins there: some classics- TAF, TOM, Indiana Jones, FH, LOTR and a few others.
Not far from Marvin's was the Holocaust Memorial Center. What an amazing place! The guided tour was exceptional. There was a high school group there so I just tagged along with them. If you ever make it to Michigan I'd recommend this as a must see.
Made it on up to Midland and checked in at the hotel. Found the courthouse so that I could be sure to get there on time on Tuesday.
Went to court on Tuesday. What a freak show. If you want to get some free entertainment, go sit in your local county's court and see what's going on! Local bottom of the barrel folks talking about their felony weapon possession charges and seeking advise from others there that are in the same boat.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic.
Here's what happened: I had given up on Kevin showing up for court since it was almost my turn. But he arrived right on time! After having spoken with the detective the week prior, and understanding that the criminal investigation was likely to fall short, I planned to focus my efforts on establishing Kevin's failure to deliver the product.
Kevin said that his attorney had told him to speak to no one. So, that's why he had never replied to me or anyone else. Of course that didn't preclude him from paying his debt obligations. So, not knowing if I would ever get any kind of response, that's why I had taken my course of action. Now, the magistrate inquired about the other refunds due to all the other customers and Kevin responded that they (he and his attorney I assume) are working through that process and it should take 60 to 90 days.

Now, the criminal investigation apparently has been concluded without any findings of criminal activity. This investigation was given as part of the reasoning behind the slide in production schedule. Negotiations with the IP owner were not completely exhausted, so something may be worked out (unlikely I think). PayPal is the trustee of the funds that have been collected.
Citing the specific Consumer Protection Laws that I believe Kevin has violated, I concluded my presentation of the evidence I had brought to the court. The magistrate found in my favor and awarded the judgment to me. Now, since I paid by check, I insisted that I be reimbursed by certified check, not PayPal. This was granted.
Soon as the hearing was concluded, Kevin vanished! I couldn't find him, and he didn't answer his phone. Just wanted to talk with him and get the answers to a few questions for everyone here.
I expect to get the refund within 21 days (or off I go to Michigan again).
Now, Midland is really a pretty little town. I wouldn't knock it down. Lots of pretty little towns up there in Michigan.
Afterwards I made it up to lake Huron and camped out at Port Crescent State Park. Cold and windy like you can't imagine! Hiked around and took lots of pictures.
Wednesday morning I headed back south through the beautiful farmlands to Detroit and toured the Henry Ford Museum. That takes a full day, but it was very nice. Afterwards I took Vid's advice and ate dinner at Slow's BarBQ. This place had fantastic St Louis style ribs. The beans were just average, but hey I'm from down south where we know how to bake beans! This place ranked up there with the Rendezvous in Memphis. Yummm!!!
Drove into Kentucky and spent the night. Then on Thursday I toured the Jim Beam Distillery (included a couple of samples!). Went to the Abraham Lincoln birthplace and museum. Finished it all off with a tour of the Corvette Museum, and headed on home.
Got in late last night and wanted to post as soon as I could.
So, nutshell:
Kevin's criminal investigation is concluded without findings.
He says he can get back on track with production and/or refunding as necessary. Decisions on if the business will be continuing are being considered. Refunds are planned for 60 to 90 days out. I was awarded a judgment and am awaiting the certified check to be mailed to me.
I explained to the magistrate and to Kevin that this entire small claims suit was completely unnecessary had Kevin just simply responded to my calls, emails, and certified letter.
When I got home last night I had received in the mail a response to my Consumer Complaint to the Michigan State Attorney General. This response came from Kevin's attorney. So, I know who that is now. Should my judgment not be produced, I now know who I can call (someone that will answer the phone).
If I could give any advice (take it for what it's worth in your opinion) I'd suggest email and phone call. If that gets no response send a certified letter and begin documenting every single thing that you do. Now that the criminal investigation is completed, Kevin can get back to focusing on his business, so let's give him some time (I can't believe I just said that!).

#8527 4 years ago
Quoted from Cobra99:

So if I'm reading this right, all the money is still in the account? There might be some hope. Why doesn't PayPal just issue the refunds?

I'm just relaying what he told the court. Personally, I don't believe it.
PayPal trustee? That doesn't sound like a business PayPal would be interested in undertaking, to me.

13
#8528 4 years ago
Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

Guys, let's just calm down and wait two weeks for the update

Wow! I just had Déjà vu.

#8584 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Yes, since Kevin's defense argues that they need more time to serve refunds so they can resume production. Resume production. That means that he is willing to continue production in the face of Fox's resistance. If you do end up contacting Fox, I would ask Enaud to provide evidence or a summary of the session minutes (if his attorney allows it).

I didn't say that he was resuming production. Only that the negotiations with fox were not closed. What I think has been misunderstood is the production statement. He said that the criminal investigation is what had stalled production. He made no statement that he is still producing the machines. He did not say that he has now obtained the licensing to resume production. Let's be very careful with the rumor mill, please.

#8598 4 years ago
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:

I sent a follow up email to the prepared email that I (and lamihh) posted above. I asked if it is not fraud to claim to have a license, publicly, while taking my money knowing full-well he did not.
I am going to send an email to Kevin's Lawyer requesting my refund... in 3..2..1....

When I spoke to the detective a couple of weeks ago on this very question, he said that the "criminal" fraud would be against Fox, not the customers. If he hasn't created and sold any units, then, no crime has taken place. He also said that should Kevin create said units, Fox could seize them from the consumer since it would be an unlicensed product.

Now, the key point here is to make it well known (shouting from the rooftops) that said statement of license was a means to obtain funds under "false pretense". That's a key phrase. Should Kevin file for bankruptcy, the debtors can petition to have the funds considered a non-dischargeable debt since they were obtained under false pretense. Thus, bankruptcy won't be an option for Kevin.

Unfortunately, you may have to file a civil suit to get your money back. I've done that and haven't gotten my money back yet. (It's just been 1 week since the small claims court.)
He has 21 days to pay or it's back to court.

#8691 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I keep hearing about the lives of unbridled fear and paranoia that Kevin and JPop must now be leading...cowering in terror...wondering if around the next corner their ultimate fate awaits...
...and I've concluded it's complete bullshit. Nobody is gonna do shit and those guys have absolutely nothing to fear. No pinhead is going to potentially ruin their life by "going after" these guys no matter how many silly veiled threats get issued.

I think I need to clarify my down vote. In my case, I disagree because I consider that their ultimate fate awaiting them is the legal firestorm that's coming down. I'm not advocating violence.

#8707 4 years ago

I wonder if it would be better to communicate with Kevin's attorney via USPS mail rather than emails and phone calls. It would be nicer to have a paper trail of your communications.
I just don't like the idea of pestering him with phone calls since I'm sure Kevin will get billed for the time. Speaking of which, if Kevin were to use the Predator funds to pay for his attorney fees, I think that would constitute a "larceny by conversion" felony in and of itself. Head's up Kevin!

14
#8727 4 years ago

To add to fosaisu's source:
Here's a portion of the attorney's (Kevin's) response to the Michigan AG:
Once your office is satisfied, SkitB Pinball is returning to the project to assess its feasibility for completion. Unfortunately "Enaud" has fallen victim to the same hysteria, believing that what he is reading on the internet is true, when it is not. At this point, the licensing issues are still available to be sorted out in order to restart production and most of the parts for production remain ready to go. We are currently performing an accounting of all remaining pre-owners and their positions to determine the correct number of machines spoken for. In addition, we are examining the requests for refunds, including "Enaud's" related to this Complaint, to determine if there is a waitlist person to take his spot and what, if any fees, will be deducted from his monies consistent with the terms of the deposit. At this point, however, we are addressing "Enaud's" complaint for relief in the Midland County District Court.... and so on, and so on...

Sounds like Kevin's delay plan is to deny your refund until someone takes your spot (ain't gonna happen in this lifetime). However, since he is in violation of the Michigan Consumer Protection Act 331 of 1976: 445.903 Sec. 3 (q) and (u), (and the 75th District Court agreed with me on this), refunds are due.

It would sure be nice if Kevin or Jon would bother to communicate and try to work something out. It's hard to breathe in a vacuum.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers!

#8741 4 years ago

I don't know if forced bankruptcy would be wise at this stage. I think a better track would be to contact Fox and see if you can get a statement that no license is or will be produced for Kevin. With that evidence you'll be set to site those consumer protection laws I pointed out earlier as a roadblock to him producing the merchandise, and thus, his inability to deliver. Thus, warranting your refund.
I'm going to see what I can come up with tomorrow. Everyone try to as well.

#8743 4 years ago

I found a couple of phone numbers for Fox. Will try tomorrow.
Does anyone have any numbers or names there. I'd appreciate any help you can give me.
I want to get a statement form them as to his licensing status. That should put the nail in the coffin, I think.

#8751 4 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

I don't want to be a 'downer', but didn't they say they were "working on getting the license" from Fox, to the authorities ? If you get a confirmation that they don't have the license, all they have to say is, "Yes, that is right, but we are working with Fox"

That's what I want to confirm. Yes they are licensed/no they are not licensed/they are working on it. I think we all know what the answer is (no).
Not sure if they will even talk to me, but I'm going to try.
Just wanting to have that information that we've all needed for so long.

64
#8772 4 years ago

Well, my day has been an exciting day to say the least. No, I didn't get a refund but I do have some interesting information to share.

Quoted from vid1900:

FOX is probably not allowed to give you any confirmation about anything - unless you are a business looking to license something or have a court order.

Maybe since I did go to court, he was receptive? Maybe I'm just good looking?

Quoted from Skins:

Disgusting.
Question: why hasn't Kevin had to answer that he never had the license and collected monies on a false premise. I don't see how that is getting glossed over.

I think it could, should he file for bankruptcy. "False Pretense" would make his debts non-dischargeable. I think this will come to light as this is a violation of the Michigan Consumer Protection Act 331 of 1976 445.903 Sec. 3.

Quoted from rosh:

I think the problem here is that he believes, based on some conversation with some peon at 'fox', that he was within legal rights to do it under fair use. Accordingly, he will claim he believed he did have the license when he was stating such, and it was only much later that he learned what he was doing was not acceptable from a licensing standpoint. Which is then followed by the 'now that we know this we are trying to get the proper license', BS

I think he has just lied, that's all. He has perjured himself in small claims court last week. I was there and heard what he said.

Okay, here's what happened today. I left a voicemail this morning, and Bryce was kind enough to return my call this afternoon. He was very kind and we had a very pleasant conversation. In fact, he was ***MOST*** interested in the fact that I had Mr. Kulek's attorney contact information. I have sent that to him, as well as all my small claims court documentation, and I suspect that they are going to have a come to Jesus meeting very soon.
Now, this may be exciting, but let's not raise hell. Please don't start bombarding Fox, or Kevin, or his attorney with calls and emails. I am in the process of collection information and documentation that I will gladly share with the customers that can be submitted as evidence in legal proceedings. So, please be patient. The wheels of justice are slow.
I think that the end game may be not too far off, although it may mean no money for anyone. Who knows if there is any there?

Anyway, I'm copying and pasting my email to Bryce at Fox (again please don't contact him, I will give you whatever information you need.)

Hi Bryce,
Thanks so much for returning my call this afternoon. The information you shared with me concerning (1) the lack of any license being acquired by Mr. Kulek, (2) the fact that no license will be granted in the future, and (3) the statement of the issuance of the multiple Cease and Desist Notices that have been sent to Mr. Kulek will hopefully provide his attorney with the information necessary to begin processing refunds for the customers without further delay.
As we discussed, I was awarded judgment on May 19, 2015, in a small claims hearing with Mr. Kulek in Midland, Michigan (Case No. 15-36333-SC). I am hopeful that the judgment payment will be received.
Please find the attached documents that I used in presenting my case before Magistrate Ladwig. Also, note the attachment referencing the Michigan Consumer Protection Act 331 of 1976 statutes that I believe Mr. Kulek has violated.
There is also a link to an audio presentation at the 2012 Chicago Pinball Exposition in which Mr. Kulek claimed to have secured licensing from Fox, as a means to solicit customers to deposit funds to pre-order the product being marketed.

I believe the statement that “negotiations” with Fox are in process may be in use as a stall tactic to delay refunding the customers.

I only have a hard copy of Mr. Kulek’s attorney response to the Consumer Complaint I filed with the Michigan Attorney General (2015-cp03302227065-A). I will scan that first thing on Monday morning and email that to you.
From that response, I discovered who Mr. Kulek’s attorney is. The following is Mr. Kulek’s attorney contact information:
The Law Firm PLLC
Jon T. Emaus, Managing Partner
8163 Grand River Rd.
Ste. 300
Brighton, MI 48114
810-227-1700

If you would be so kind, I would appreciate a written response from you confirming Mr. Kulek’s licensing status: in process/negotiations underway/pending, acquired or denied; as this may be necessary to be submitted as evidence should additional legal proceedings be warranted.

Thanks so much, again, for your time and assistance in this matter.

Sincerely,
"Enaud"

I will keep you all posted as I learn more.
Cheers!

#8776 4 years ago

I understand your concern, Whysnow, and considered it myself, before posting. But this is nothing that Kevin doesn't already know. By making it public, this might force his hand. Hopefully we can get the two attorney's in contact with each other for a resolution, as Kevin is unreachable.

I can move all this to PM if others would prefer.

Thanks for the input!

-2
#8794 4 years ago

At this stage do we require an attorney to act as a collection agency?
I think Kevin's attorney is already charged with this task (processing refunds to customers).

-1
#8796 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Did the court actually order his attorney to do this? From your accounting of the proceedings, the line the attorney gave the judge was that refunds would go out in 60-90 days. That statement of intent doesn't necessarily mean the attorney is under any sort of legal obligation, nor that pre-orderers have a "defacto" judgement. He may not even be Kevin's attorney in 2 months. He may have simply said that at that time to protect his client (Kevin) and buy him some time.

I just find the offer for attorney representation at this time to be a bit offensive. Pardon me. The legal work to conclude that refunds are due is done. The issue now is refunds to customers, if in fact any money is even there. I don't like the idea of an attorney coming in and collecting fees at this juncture, for work that has already been concluded. Refunds are due. You can make reference to my small claims court ruling. The issue is getting refunds disbursed, not proving wrongdoing.
Make a call to Kevin's attorney and ask him yourself. You don't need someone to represent you to find out if his attorney plans to work on getting the refunds processed to you. You'll save yourself some money there if you do.
You can make an effort yourself instead of relying on others to do it for you.

(Sorry if that offends you. But, I've had enough of this idea of getting someone else to do the work for me.)

#8798 4 years ago

We should know "in just a few short days". I'm sorry to have to say that. But I think this time it's a true statement.

#8803 4 years ago

You are absolutely right. None of us may get any refunds at all.

#8813 4 years ago

Well, PayPal is certainly obtuse. The customer service rep told me that the legal department doesn't have a phone number so that people won't call them (located in San Jose, CA). The only way you can contact them is via mail.
I did find on their website's legal section that garnishments can be placed on a PayPal account by court order. This would only be an option if:
1. you've been to court and didn't receive payment of the judgment ordered.
2. you file for a garnishment of the account with the court to order payment and send all that to PayPal legal.
3. if there is any money in that account you could be paid.

Number 3 is the big if.

#8825 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

Every civil case I have seen in court resulted in the judge making the statement that he is not responsible for the money being collected. There will be more court hearings, and Kevin will have to be located by a process server to be served. It sounds like his assets at lest have been listed. I have never seen anyone get their settlement from one hearing and successfully being served by an officer of the court. Its always something more to add to the pile of shit. Whether its bankruptcy or more motions....there will be more court involvement before anybody gets a check sorry to say.

I don't think his assets have been listed yet, have they? Does anyone have that? Bank accounts and statements, assets listing, tax returns, etc.
I think that's the next step in this ordeal. Discovery subpoena, unless someone has his asset information already.
Thoughts?

#8851 4 years ago

Keep your fingers crossed for those of us chumps that paid by check. I hope he has funds in there to cover us, too!

#8886 4 years ago

I spoke with Jon on Tuesday and emailed him an image of the small claims judgment order I had received. I have heard nothing yet about the refunds or for any refunds to those that paid by check.
Anyone that has paid by check, please be sure to get with Jon and make him aware of your status.
If you have an image of those checks you might want to send those to him as well. (Be sure to blank out the routing transit number and your account number for security reasons.)

Good luck to us all.

#8909 4 years ago
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:

It says clearly From Skit B Pinball, and along with a transaction ID it has the note that it is a Refund.

Can you give us a timeline of events? When did the request and refund take place?

Quoted from CaryCarmichael:

Man, I really don't want anyone left without a refund! Please be vocal to his attorney, and here in the thread.

Hell, I got a court judgment to the attorney. I wonder how loud I have to be to that guy?

But anyway, seriously, please give me the timeline of events for your inquiry and refund.

BTW congrats on the refund!!!!!!!!!

#8952 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

Yep lawyer is certainly upset because Kevin probably has no money and the lawyer is watching his paycheck float away

I remember asking the detective about this. He said that Kevin couldn't use funds in the PayPal account to pay his legal fees as that would be using the funds for something other than it was intended. Larceny by Conversion, which is a felony.
KeithinMI can comment if he wants to, although I understand that's his work and this forum isn't.

#9034 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

think PayPal is going to refund everybody based on the fraud committed. Like I said, I know the process was initiated months ago because I was asked to help with the forensic acctg
That's what is happening now. It isn't Kevin or his lawyer pushing the magic refund button
They have zero access to paypal

Wow, Iceman, I bet that was a hell of an accounting to make. I had no idea you were taking that task on. So, let me ask you if there was any audit trail of where the cash went to from people that paid by check? Anything there, or did it just disappear?

#9193 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

What ever happened to the FOX IP lawyer? Did he say if he ever contacted Kevin's lawyer or if anything came from that?

I haven't heard anything back from the Fox IP guy. He has Jon's contact information, so all we can do is hope he's talking to him.

Time seems to move at a glacial pace for these attorney types, it seems.

13
#9217 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am looking forward to what happens with Enaud's case and judgement. Enaud, aren't you supposed to be paid soon based on the judgement in your favor? I forgot what teh timeline and next steps are for you.

T minus 9 days and counting.

1 month later
#9394 3 years ago

I think we can infer from this that the money is all gone. Kevin is penniless. And we are shit outa luck.
BTW Enaud got nothing from the judgment.

2 months later
#9629 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

His name was originally posted here.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/michigan-pinball-expo-2015-photosreview/page/2#post-2378169
I reposted in hopes of finding out his contact info so it can be passed along to the appropriate legal teams.
Just took a little work to add it all up.
here he actually was dumb enough to list his entire collection(including Predator; oh yes, and TZ, JD, IM which are all seen in the photo)
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/pinchili/collection
using the photo attached it was pretty easy to see that he is the likely person.
Predator Delivered UK photo.jpg
People have since reached out to him and he has admitted he has the game.

IF the Fox IP attorney gets his name and address, Fox can confiscate it since it's unlicensed. Not a speculation. I spoke with him in person several months ago and asked the specific question about one of the pins getting out in the wild.
Hey Kevin, you're in contempt and still owe me the judgment. Oh, and interest is accruing.
Cheers.

26
#9716 3 years ago
Quoted from PinRebel:

As far as anyone here knows that I can see Kevin has been reimbursing as many people as he can as fast as he can. .

Let me just call that statement bullshit. I sued Kevin in small claims court back in May. I won. He shafted me and is in contempt of court. The little punk is avoiding me. Interest is accruing on the judgment that was awarded to me. I'm a judgment creditor and Kevin owes me. He's hidden his money and it's up to me (and Keith's working on the same type of stuff for his clients) to find it.

20
#9745 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinpast:

Be sure to go back and pay the extra money to have your judgement docketed.
that puts it in the records, and any time he tries to apply for a loan or sell real
property the judgement must be satisfied before the transaction comes through.
At least that's the civil process here in good ol' minnesnowta.
Hard to get blood from a turnip

Yep. I'm making arrangements. I've been in contact with the court. I have to go back to Michigan for the next phase. Kevin's just hoping I won't drive back to Michigan. But I will. Oh Kevin, you were charged for my expenses the first time, and I'll ask the court to do it again on this next visit.

#9747 3 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Enaud,
I would also pull title on his house. If its in his name, then you can put a lien against it. If he ever tries to sell the house or even re-finance (assuming Bank checks title) then you will get paid (In Canada anyway).....

Thanks. Been there done that. Title is in his wife's name only.

1 month later
#10069 3 years ago

Come on Keith. Wasn't there a court session/hearing today? Inquiring minds want to know.
Cheers!

#10071 3 years ago

I checked the court docket a while back and thought it was today. Of course I've been wrong before...

3 weeks later
#10131 3 years ago

He should be getting 5 to 10 as love slave in cell block C.

2 weeks later
#10167 3 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

Kevin's will get a chance to tell his lies under oath. I want to hear them.

Been there, done that. That son of a bitch lied his ass off in my court session with him. No satisfaction. The judgment is accruing interest, but I'll probably never see a cent.

#10186 3 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

A warrant will be authorized at that time. Intent could even be inferred by the amount of time lapsed. Or maybe enough evidence will be obtained that he never pursued his licensing.

I spoke with the legal counsel at Fox, personally. He told me that Kevin never had and never will get licensing. Shouldn't that be enough for Keith to subpoena that information from him?
Oh, it seems so simple, yet so impossibly difficult.

2 months later
#10312 3 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

So instead, park in front of the house (on the street's shoulder, not the lawn...) and just chant into a megaphone "Where's my game? Where's my game? Where's my game?"

I've heard that Kevin's been known to show up at some of the auctions. How about if you see him that you announce to all present (as the auction begins) that he's a credit debtor in the state of Michigan, and encourage anyone/everyone to NOT do any business with him whatsoever.
Shame him away from any auction events.

24
#10314 3 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Until a trial/judgement, you'd need to say "purported" or "alleged". Otherwise you could be guilty of slander. Just sayin'...

Sorry, been there done that. I took him to small claims court and won. He's definitely the judgment debtor and I'm the judgment creditor. He's stiffed me for 5k and I'm pissed. So, everyone should shout it from the rooftops that he's not someone to do business with. He should be shamed at any event he shows up to.
Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks!

#10321 3 years ago

Didn't get squat. Won the trial case, but he's shafted me on the money. I attempted to garnish his bank account but he emptied it out first. Probably all been spent on crack and hookers.
I spoke with the court and they said this is typically the way these court cases go. You win, but still can't collect the money. They either spend it all or hide it.

#10324 3 years ago

No info. The court said I'd have to return to Michigan and file more legal actions to get any further (asset discovery, etc.).

30
#10329 3 years ago

I went to court last May. Hey Kevin, if you're reading, interest is still accruing on the debt! I'll be going back to MI when it's convenient for me and I'll drag your ass back there again.
Oh, statute of limitations is 6 years, and can be renewed/extended.

#10337 3 years ago

Don't encourage him to file bankruptcy. That would be a way form him to wash his hands of it all.
He needs to be convicted of criminal intent so that his house and possessions can be auctioned off to cover the debt.

4 weeks later
16
#10405 3 years ago

I checked the court calendar and they have a hearing coming up on April 12 at 4:00pm in the 75th district court. The whole lot. Kevin, Amanda and Kathy. Anyone close enough to go by and listen in to see what goes on? The wheels of justice are flowing at a glacial pace.

#10414 3 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Your honor; the COuNsel asks for additional time to prepare for the defense of these baseless charges...
Granted; court will adjourn this matter until September 23, 2016.

No shit. It will drag on forever.

#10418 3 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

If someone goes, are they allowed to record the audio of the event? ...like on their phone? Is it legal... And if so, I guess it could then be posted?

Recordings are not permitted. But the public can go in and listen to it. You could take notes and let everyone know what happened. But like MrBally said, it will probably be postponed.

2 weeks later
#10440 3 years ago

I would guess that each one is a separate complaint (one for each plaintiff). Come on Keith, give us just a little info. Inquiring minds want to know.

#10445 3 years ago

You can purchase transcripts from the court since it's public knowledge. But it's kinda expensive and at a per page cost.
I'd hope we could get a summary of what happened after the session.

#10447 3 years ago

Request for postponement is likely all that will happen today.

1 month later
#10558 3 years ago

Chapter 7 - Liquidation under the Bankruptcy Code
Chapter 7, entitled Liquidation, contemplates an orderly, court-supervised procedure by which a trustee takes over the assets of the debtor’s estate, reduces them to cash, and makes distributions to creditors, subject to the debtor’s right to retain certain exempt property and the rights of secured creditors. Debts obtained by fraud or false pretenses are not dischargeable - If a Creditor Successfully Objects.

The court may revoke a chapter 7 discharge on the request of the trustee, a creditor, or the U.S. trustee if the discharge was obtained through fraud by the debtor, if the debtor acquired property that is property of the estate and knowingly and fraudulently failed to report the acquisition of such property or to surrender the property to the trustee, or if the debtor (without a satisfactory explanation)
makes a material misstatement or fails to provide documents or other information in connection with an audit of the debtor’s case.
11 U.S.C. § 727(d).

Dammit Keith in MI. You can obviously show that he fraudulently claimed owner ship of the license and thus committed fraud. Thus, he cannot hide behind chapter 7. Earn your money that so many victims have paid you.
I'm a creditor and the debts are NOT dischargeable. Shit, looks like another drive to Michigan.

#10560 3 years ago

Hey, someone that received the Chapter 7 announcement. Can you send me a copy? I may not be on the receiving end of the notification because I haven't received anything. So, I need a name/address/phone/case number to contact at the court, please.
Thanks!

#10636 3 years ago

Well, I received my notice of Kevin's bankruptcy petition today. Mail runs a little slower down south, I guess. On a happy note, I can object to the dischargeability of the debt (and I've got documentation already on file from the small claims court case) and I don't have to show up to do it! So, I won't have to drive all the way up there (for now).

About his ssn showing up on this thread, yeah, probably ought to scrub that.

#10724 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Does Tim still have the game? He came into this thread earlier arguing that Kevin did everything right and paid back everyone except the people that were suing him...

Yeah that's a bunch of shit. The people that were suing him would logically be the people he would pay first.
#RANT
The legal system is f&#ked up. Now that he's filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy, in order to object to the dischargeability of the debt, guess what? You have to sue him again! Adversary proceeding. If the amount was $15k or more, maybe worth the trouble. But, legal fees will eat up most of that. That's the trump card he's holding over everyone. Like a get out of jail free card.
I just hope that the other ongoing civil cases end with him in prison.
#RANT

Thanks for letting me scream just a little.
Cheers!

#10827 3 years ago

I had a good conversation with a the bankruptcy court and then a bankruptcy attorney in Bay City, MI, on Friday. Basically, Kevin is screwing each person out of their 5k by filing chapter 7. Sure, you can object to the discharge of the debt by filing an Adversary Proceeding. There's a $350 filing fee and a new suit is initiated. You're going to court again. The attorney advised that the 5k would be more than eaten up by his fees. So, it ain't worth it. Now, if 10 or 15 victims got together and were all represented collectively, then it might (and I emphasize) be remotely plausible. However, even if the debt is not discharged, if he has no money he has no money. I see it as spending more good money chasing after bad money.

And this adversary proceeding is simply for objecting to the discharge of the debt. It isn't for recovering any money back. I think we all need to accept that the money is gone and will not be recouped. My hope and prayers lie on Keith's criminal proceedings. I'll get some satisfaction seeing them in jail.
I'm watching the court calendar and looking forward to seeing what develops.

#10875 3 years ago

So, is anyone actually objecting to the debt discharge, or are you just bitching about how wrong his bankruptcy is? For anyone that is planning on initiating and adversary proceeding, I think it would be much more economical to join together and file once on behalf of several creditors, rather than lots of separate proceedings. The clerk told me the filing fee is $350, and you DO have to appear in court (unless you have an attorney represent you). That attorney is where the dollars start to rack up. And say you are successful in having the discharge of debt denied. While he is in bankruptcy you still can't touch him. After he is out of bankruptcy (say a year or two) you could go after him again. However, if he has no visible money, you still get nothing. And if you do want to go after some money, yet again, there are more lawsuits involved. If you are seriously going to pursue this (it will cost money) contact me so we can start compiling a list of victims. We might be able to contact Keith to see if he would consider representing us. As I understand it, his current legal proceedings have nothing to do with this bankruptcy. Those are two different issues.
Compare/contrast/comments please...

2 weeks later
#10981 2 years ago

I would love for that SOB to be the love slave of cell block C. I may not get any money recovered, but I'll smile if he's behind bars.
I'll even send him a soap-on-a-rope.

12
#11078 2 years ago

Okay, let's get this back on topic, if we can. I hear a bunch of arm-chair quarterbacks here.
What are you doing about it?????

This is for those that are out money and who want to fight this bankruptcy declaration.

Contact Keith and let's try to get him to file and Adversary Proceeding on behalf of several people that are owed money. It is a slam dunk that this can be declared a non-dischargeable debt. But we have to sue in order to even have a chance of recovery. That non-dischargeable debt will hound him forever if we sue. Now, that means more expense, but if we do it collectively it won't hurt too bad.

Individually, the expense of an adversary proceeding is cost prohibitive. We must file collectively as a group of creditors and share the cost.

PM me if you are in. I will introduce you to Keith and try to work up an arrangement.

There is a very narrow window of opportunity to respond. So, it's time for action, or just keep bitching on this forum.

Serious PMs only.
Thanks.

#11081 2 years ago
Quoted from HappyDayz:

Does this mean there is currently no more pending litigation unless you file for this adversary proceeding? Or are you just suggesting another parallel path to go for reimbursement?

There is no other way to recover your money. If you don't file an adversary proceeding then you are accepting his bankruptcy and he walks away. The criminal litigation is another matter for those that are involved with it. And an adversary proceeding will be required for them as well.

This litigation is against his bankruptcy declaration. Suing him is required in order to deny him the ability to walk away from his debts by declaring bankruptcy. Through the adversary proceeding it could be easily proven that he committed fraud, which makes the debt non-dischargeable. That would mean the debt hangs on his shoulders forever.

If you don't sue then he walks away from all of his debt obligations.

#11084 2 years ago

He's already filed for bankruptcy. That's a done deal. If no one objects to his filing (via adversary proceeding suit) he walks away free!
Read the damn notification you received and do a little googling.

#11280 2 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

toss it off a roof & set it on fire.
charge an "in person" attendance fee. distribute those funds back to people who where stolen from by kevin for this pin.
then post the video here.

You talkin' about the pin or Kevin being thrown and burned???

#11358 2 years ago

I think it would be cool to have one of those playfields to hang up in the arcade. Kind of a sick reminder of being scammed.
It's kind of hard to explain, but it would lead to some closure at least for me.
But what would be better, would be to see his sorry ass do some prison time.

1 month later
#11694 2 years ago

I spoke with PayPal legal last year. The account has long since been drained. There has been nothing there for a long long time.

1 month later
#11875 2 years ago

Got my notice today. But the amount is wrong. I took the punk to court and he owes me additional fees. Also, the balance due has been accruing interest since 5/19/2015.
Guess I'll have to make some calls tomorrow.

#11893 2 years ago

Basically you have to sue Kevin again saying that his debt to you is non-dischargeable.

Keith I'm waiting on you to return my call.

3 weeks later
#11900 2 years ago

Don't be disillusioned that this will get you your money. It just means that he can't walk away from your claim due to his bankruptcy filing. I imagine you'll have to sue yet again to actually go after any money.

2 weeks later
#11998 2 years ago

I fully expect that Kevin will not have any receipts at all. And little to no documentation of any kind. Any bank activity will have to be obtained from the bank. I'm sure that will not be cheap to get produced.
On another note, Keith is supposed to be securing someone to represent those of us seeking to file an adversary proceeding. Patiently standing by...

1 month later
#12108 2 years ago

So, I'm just singing 'Bad boys, Bad boys, whatcha gonna do when they come for you...'.
I'd love to see them throw his ass in jail. I'd like to see this on an episode of Cops.

#12138 2 years ago

Maybe Kevin was a no show so that he can get brought in for the free three hots and a cot.

#12184 2 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I fully expect that Kevin will not have any receipts at all. And little to no documentation of any kind. Any bank activity will have to be obtained from the bank. I'm sure that will not be cheap to get produced.
On another note, Keith is supposed to be securing someone to represent those of us seeking to file an adversary proceeding. Patiently standing by...

Hey Keith. Any word on finding someone willing to represent us that are seeking to file an adversary proceeding?

1 week later
#12497 2 years ago

Happy new year Predator victims! Hope we nail his ass this year.
KeithinMI, have you had any success in obtaining council willing to represent those victims that wish to file an adversary proceeding to K's bankruptcy?

Cheers, Enaud.

28
#12500 2 years ago
Quoted from c508:

Not sure if first troll post of 2017 in this thread or he just hasn't read any of the posts from the past two months?

Not a troll post. The attorney that Keith had lined up fell through. I've contacted both of them. I'm a judgment creditor (I'm the dude that actually sued Kulek). Keith told me he was working on another person to represent the ones that wanted to file an adversary proceeding. I haven't heard back from him in a couple of months. So, not a troll. An actual inquiry.

#12787 2 years ago
Quoted from KerryImming:

But Kevin did NOT have the right to sell it.

Hey Tim, were you an already paid in full customer? If not, those customers would have been in line to get the unit before you. (Not that this would have ever happened.) So, in effect, Kulek sold a piece of merchandise that was already sold (to about 200 people). So, Kulek would be double-selling the same item multiple times. Can't be legal IMHO.
And your bank withdrawal statement: That does not authenticate the transaction with Kulek if you don't have a receipt.
Now, if you could simply shut the f*%K up perhaps we could stand by for some actual useful information about what is proceeding.

Rant over.

23
#12843 2 years ago

It just seems most likely that they held off on releasing details so that they could get their money back in advance of the run on the bank.
This is a no-brainer.

11
#12872 2 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

I'm pretty sure his only communication with Fox was the C&D they sent him

I left a voicemail with legal council at Fox. And believe it or not he returned my call. He told me that Kulek NEVER had any license and had never applied for license until he was caught. And, that he would never get any license. They just shot him down and said no way. Stop production and go away.

#12875 2 years ago

Love that expression. Dropped a dime!

15
#12918 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

He had spoken in the past about Paypal being a "partner" (the post is somewhere here on Pinside) and that the money was "safe".
When I requested a refund in 2014, it took him a week or 2 to get Paypal to refund it. At the time I was speaking with a few other pinsiders who were also requesting refunds, and it was the same process, a couple of weeks. This struck me as odd at the time, because Paypal refunds are normally instant.
In hindsight, with what we know today, i suspect that Paypal had frozen his account early on, and worked out some kind of arrangement with him to drip out the money, but hold onto the lion's share in case of fraud. When he attempted the refunds, Paypal probably permanently froze the money because of the credit card chargebacks that would have been flying fast and furious at the same time.
How much Paypal froze is still unknown.

When I was chasing Kulek's accounts I consulted with PayPal. Kulek said that they were acting as an escrow agent and holding the funds. He even told the magistrate in my small claims suit this. Well, when I consulted with PayPal Legal they said oh hell no. They NEVER act as an escrow agent. Other third parties can do that, but they are simply a transaction processor. So, Kulek lied his ass off from the very beginning. His statements about arrangements with PayPal was simply a slight of hand diversion.

1 week later
#13071 2 years ago
Quoted from jasonp:

An adversary proceeding (or “AP”) is a lawsuit filed separate from but related to the bankruptcy case. It is an action commenced by one or more Plaintiffs filing a Complaint against one or more Defendants and resembles a typical civil case. The Plaintiff is the person, partnership or corporation initiating the lawsuit. The Defendant is the person, partnership or corporation being sued. Certain types of disputes cannot be handled in the bankruptcy case, but instead require the commencement of an adversary proceeding. These types of actions are found in Rule 7001 of the Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure.

Hey, have any of you all been successful in finding an attorney to do the AP for you? Keith had someone lined up at one time, but that fell through. If anyone has information please PM me.
Thanks.

15
#13079 2 years ago

Damn, that was a fun audio track to listen to! Best entertainment of the evening. Great job, Keith.
Now, I'm looking forward to the Marshalls' visit to Kulek next week.

1 week later
#13473 2 years ago

Whoop whoop. Happy Friday!

#13743 2 years ago

I believe that once the stay is lifted, those with a court ordered judgment against KK (me), and the civil suits can resume.

2 weeks later
#14281 2 years ago

Damn, Keith. You're good. I loved hearing the judge allude to the possible criminal ramifications of Mr. Kulek's actions.

4 months later
#15920 1 year ago

I'll still be a little surprised if Amanda actually comes up with the funds. Seems like the court ordered (and Kevin agreed) to settle with me when I took him to court. Yet still, here we are.
I'm hopeful she'll come through!

#15934 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I thought Kevin was just a no-show and default judgement in your case? Alas unlike a pure civil matter, this court flexed a bit more and I bet amanda took note when the marshalls made Kevin appear.

I took him to small claims court and won. He just won't pay up.

1 week later
#16612 1 year ago

I do truly feel sorry for the children. They don't deserve this hardship.
It is ironic that the flood has caused this grief. Reminds me of a man I know that once walked on water. It is also said in that same book: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7.
In other words, Karma is what it is.
I don't see Kevin anywhere in regards to this catastrophe. Where is he? He should man up and try to rescue the family. Yet instead he is invisible and absent. I think he is worthless and a shame to the children. Yes, I do feel sorry for the children. But Amanda, Kathy and Kevin cannot hide behind this series of events. They are responsible for the Predator mess that they concocted. Kevin et al is no victim. Taken to court, judgment ruled, yet Kevin flaunted the law and didn't pay up. I have no sympathy for him. If I don't receive payment (and I suspect I never will), I'll have to settle for justice and see him in jail.

#16627 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Agreed, but this is what happens when people like this are allowed to reproduce. It's a vicious, never ending cycle.

Yup. Can't fix stupid.

#16689 1 year ago

Just spoke with the newsroom. They are just doing a little research to see if they even want to run a story on this.
He said that it looks like it is WAY more deep than they could have imagined. They're just gathering information to see if it is report worthy.
I told him about my small claims judgment against Mr. Kulek, and that Keith Nathanson was the attorney representing the bankruptcy trustee.
So, they may or may not do anything with this story (probably not since it is so complicated and stinks of fraud).

1 week later
#16800 1 year ago

There's a set of four drop targets:
Subpoena
Small Claims
Civil Action
Arrest

After you knock them all down you can hit the "I am Legend" bonus target!
When you hit it there's music and a Keith animation on the display rocking out on the Bass.

#16869 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

He's not been charged with any crime.

.......Yet.

This is what I'm patiently waiting and watching for. At least that will be satisfaction payback.

3 weeks later
#16971 1 year ago
Quoted from robertmee:

No offense to Keith, but why in the hell wouldn't EVERYTHING be sent by courier or certified mail at this point? This "I didn't get it" crap is getting old.

Damn straight. It costs like $69 (a hell of a lot cheaper than Keith's billing rate) to have it delivered by the police. That's how I successfully communicated with that little son of a bitch Kevin.

1 week later
25
#17074 1 year ago

I think the community's knowledge of this counter suit is likely to cause more harm to his business than any of Keith's alleged accusations could have ever caused.

2 months later
#17503 1 year ago

Damn. She's a no show and I can just imagine what excuse she may have. (She'll say she never received the mail, I'd guess.) Seems like the trustee would be incurring less expense in the long run if Keith would service all communications via the sheriff. That way she has no excuses.

2 weeks later
#17588 1 year ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

I am guessing the scrap value does not out-way the transportation/towing costs.

Are you talking about the trailer or the Defendants?

6 months later
#17974 1 year ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

If only it weren't true. SFGE in a couple weeks will be my first time to stop and take a deep breath in the past 6 months.
I did have a chance to quickly download the latest audio in the Maletich case, but I haven't listened to it yet. This is from April 26th, 2018.
https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1ap2017-02002-20180426-151006

Hey Wolfmarsh, I look forward to seeing you at SFGE again this year. We'll have to grab a beer.

#17977 1 year ago

I'm just holding out for the day K gets a job so I can garnish his wages.

#17986 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

You have to have a judgement against him first.

Got that judgment. I think I'm the only one that has it. But as you can see it ain't doing me a shit of good so far.

7 months later
#18214 5 months ago

Here's a cute Predator video that helps to take our minds off all the KK krap.
https://www.facebook.com/stoopidbuddystoodios/videos/216305099256248/?t=136

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